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Handling abandoned in-game items

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jwestonmoss

Alpha
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
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592
Avatar Name
Francis Merlinfire Sureshot
First off, let me just make clear this is not one of those "hey I hope we can get valuable things for free" posts.

The game has a long history. As evidenced by the TWEN event. Players have come, and some have gone. Some have passed away, and their heirs either don't know or don't care about their accounts. For a variety of reasons this creates a situation with two major components.

  1. In-game properties, which directly support the gameplay of the universe, are obviously abandoned. Empty apartments and shops. Shopkeepers with no items for sale. Shopkeepers with items for sale, but lacking shopkeeper pad TT durability to complete transactions (e.g. there's one near Camp Crunk on RT that has been dead for years).
  2. Avatars who are holding rare items, which either sit dormant and unavailable, or even worse are actually cashed out and destroyed by an automatic avatar cash-out. Those items then may or may not ever show back up in loot pools, or in some cases were rare event items which will not and cannot be spawned any other way

Now it may be that #2 is too ambiguous to merit action. And the damage done by permanently losing access to some old item that is mostly forgotten anyway might be small.

But with #1, it actually impacts the game. When you run across clear in-game evidence of player abandonment, it gives a very negative impression.

At the same time. This is property that people own.

What's a fair way to handle this, do you think? A way to protect owners but also discourage this sort of abandonment of in-game properties.
 
It's difficult to say sometimes if a property is abandoned and is a subjective conjecture. For example I had shopkeepers in my property one had gone low TT value such that transactions cannot be completed. I had no idea until someone told me. If no one tells the owner or owner doesn't manually check TT of shopkeepers then it the property may appear to be abandoned when its not. The system needs to notify owner when this happens.

In the case of genuinely abandoned properties MA needs to make an effort to contact owner and hopefully resolve the situation that way. To aid this process anyone who buys property perhaps should be required to fill in full contact details before they can buy any property.

Also in the case of people passing away perhaps provisions should be made to allow us to fill in details of a special company to deal with our estate/property in such a situation i.e. we would instruct the company what to do and MA would hold details of that company. A kind of a virtual will if you like.
 
The simple answer is for MindArk to release more items of equal or better stats and let Entropy do what it does and devolve into a mess.
 
If the account is locked/dead/no chance of player coming back.

Put it on AH with TT SB and no buy out then extend these auctions so they can run for 1month.

Or

I agree wack it back I loot pool with new 2.0 stats if weapon.
 
Bones said:
This probably answers most of your inquiry.
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as a matter of rules and law i would be surprised if MA didn't actually "own" everything.

i'm not really sure what would be the best solution.

one idea i can think of is for MA to effectively take them into receivership or "regency". all items go into the owning avatar's storage. then the spaces are put up for sale. deeds can be resold as normal. when the original owner who was expired returns, they can reactivate their claim, which will move all items in the property to the storage of the temporary owner, and refund the PED purchase price of the buyer who purchased it from MA at the receivership auction. that way it can get used while waiting for the return of the original owner without anything being permanently lost. the biggest possible losers would be anyone who bought such a deed secondhand at a markup, but you should be able to have deeds marked as "receivership deed" so that they are aware that it can be reclaimed at any time in exchange for ONLY the original purchase price (stated on the deed itself)

thoughts on that policy?
 
jwestonmoss said:
When you run across clear in-game evidence of player abandonment, it gives a very negative impression.
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Maybe to you, but it isn't safe to generalize your subjective impressions to everyone else. Some people find music with a subject matter of depression depressing. Others find it calming. Others inspiring. Etc. Same for movies or stories with "happy" or "sad" endings. A piece of art or an aesthetic does not constrain a person to some unique internal response. Representations of abandonment can absolutely produce a wide range of desired and undesired emotions in different people and/or contexts. It is far too simplistic to label it a universal bad that needs to be stomped out of Entropia. In fact, I would argue that abandonment, if anything, can effectively compliment a particular flavor of surrealism characteristic of (especially, but not exclusively, early era) Entropia (we have all already abandoned Earth for Calypso, after all). I would far rather we lean into this "Entropian surrealist" aesthetic in our future design than some sanitized corporate office cubical minimalist aesthetic engineered to minimize negative impressions through 10000 rounds of AB testing.

Some random photographs I like...

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This support case I sent in will give you some idea back when I was asking about Emerald Lakes. In short, accounts inactive for over a year eventually have the deeds/items revert back to MA/planet partner. It sounds like historically MA may have been more lenient. The PP needs to see enough interest to list something like an estate on auction again. It's extremely rare to see these kinds of auctions, but they do happen.

Estates may be dealt with a bit differently than items, but I for one would like to see some of the inactive art put on auction to either add to my gallery or at least see other folks make use of them.
 
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It can be difficult to measure that kind of inactivity. Some people (so it is said) just log in every few months to keep the account fresh, but otherwise the properties sit empty. I don't know if this is true. It may be more like what you said: they are sitting in the hands of MA/PP already, and just haven't been relisted.

I suspect some of these "missing items" will simply evaporate entirely during the migration to UE5
 
jwestonmoss said:
I suspect some of these "missing items" will simply evaporate entirely during the migration to UE5
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As they should, along with a bunch of other dead and useless items. Sometimes within Entropy things do re-order themselves before returning to a chaotic state.

Delete a bunch of old guns, armors, faps, blueprints, etc. Bring over some newer stuff and start off sort fresh with the transition.
 
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i do prefer them to focus more on the new than picking through a haystack looking for the needle of old stuff.
 
I don't recall the specifics of the EULA, but typically, if your account stays inactive, you'll receive a warning. If the inactivity persists, your account may be temporarily suspended. If this continues for an extended period, there's a possibility that your account could be permanently removed or that you may lose access to it entirely. That's at least what I understood.

It would be beneficial if the items remain in their original state without any alterations. They should be returned to the Auction House for sale, allowing us players to purchase them from Minark. As for the proceeds, we can only hope that the money generated get utilized effectively!
 
So MindArk should have a team of investigators looking at accounts which have not been active? No.

Our accounts and avatars are personal property and equal our bank accounts. The moment anyone would steal items from peoples accounts I for sure would sell everything and quit the game.

A lot of people here have come back after a 3-4 years break, some after 10 years. If there really is a need for more of X items, then make new items to fill that void. But suggesting that you start taking peoples property is a big No-No and will ruin the game’s reputation.
 
Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
Our accounts and avatars are personal property and equal our bank accounts.
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No, they are not.

You do not personally own anything in your Entropia account, including the virtual currency. Here are some key points from the terms:

  • The virtual currency, called PED, is a limited license right to use a feature of the Entropia Universe System, and MindArk retains all rights, title, and interest in it. (Part 5, Section 1)
  • The virtual items, such as avatars, skills, and objects, are also part of the Entropia Universe System and features of the Entropia Universe, and MindArk and/or respective MindArk’s Planet Partner (s) retains all rights, title, and interest in them. (Part 5, Section 2)
  • You may not transfer, sell, lease, sublicense or otherwise dispose of any rights to the Entropia Universe System or the virtual items to third parties. (Part 5, Section 3)
  • MindArk may, at any time and at its sole discretion, update, revise, implement patches or in any other way modify, manage and control the internal data and balancing of the Entropia Universe System and/or any aspect or feature of the Entropia Universe, with or without any prior notice to you or responsibility for compensation due to loss or gain of value consequent to these modifications. (Part 5, Section 4)
  • MindArk may terminate this agreement and your account for any reason and at its sole discretion, and you will lose any rights to the Entropia Universe System and the virtual items. (Part 14, Section 1)

It is hereby expressly clarified that the Virtual Items, accumulated in Your Account as well as the Avatar You use represent only a limited license right regulated by this agreement. Accordingly, MindArk may, at any time and at MindArk’s sole discretion, update, revise, implement patches or in any other way modify, manage and control the internal data and balancing of the Entropia Universe System and/or any aspect or feature of the Entropia Universe, with or without any prior notice to the Participant or responsibility for compensation due to loss or gain of value consequent to these modifications.

Inactivated Account/Account Inactivation You acknowledge and agree that Your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed inactive if it has not been logged into for a period of ninety consecutive days.

Terminated Account/Account Termination means that the Account is purged and that You will no longer be able to retrieve its contents or to re-activate it to access Entropia Universe. Purging the Account means that, when applicable, all skills will be deleted, any estate deeds will be transferred back to MindArk and/or MindArk's Partner and the virtual objects on the Account will be exchanged for their Trade Terminal (TT) value. The aggregated value will be added to the balance on the PED Card connected to Your Account for You to withdraw if exceeding the minimal withdrawal limit of 1 000 PED. Any pending transactions involving a Terminated Account will be revoked.

You acknowledge and agree that Your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed to have been abandoned by You and consequently automatically Terminated if it has not been accessed for a period of 365 consecutive days (i.e. 275 days after an account becomes inactive as described above).

You also agree to assign MindArk and/or MindArk's Partners all rights in Your Terminated Entropia Universe Account according to the procedures established in this paragraph. You hereby discharge MindArk, any of MindArk's Partners and their respective officers, directors and employees, from and against all claims, demands, liabilities, costs, and expenses to You arising out of, or relating to, Your Terminated Entropia Universe Account.

In the event that Your Account is Terminated and if applicable, no refund will be granted except for the balance on Your PED Card and the TT value of the objects on the Account, as set out above. Any delinquent or unresolved issues relating to former participation in the Entropia Universe must be resolved before MindArk will permit You to register a new Account.
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Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
So MindArk should have a team of investigators looking at accounts which have not been active? No.

Our accounts and avatars are personal property
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Have you ever experienced inactivity? I have, and I can confirm that warnings are issued automatically by their system. You'll receive an email notification every month.

The only possessions in-game that are yours are the PED on your card and your item TT. If im not wrong? These assets are to be returned to you in the event of an account closure, game crash, or any other unforeseen circumstance if possible. However, it's important to note that MU isn't within their control, and all of this is outlined in the EULA that you agree to each time you log in.
 
NOR_Ken said:
Have you ever experienced inactivity? I have, and I can confirm that warnings are issued automatically by their system. You'll receive an email notification every month.

The only possessions in-game that are yours are the PED on your card and your item TT. If im not wrong? These assets are to be returned to you in the event of an account closure, game crash, or any other unforeseen circumstance if possible. However, it's important to note that MU isn't within their control, and all of this is outlined in the EULA that you agree to each time you log in.
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I think you are correct.
Even If your account is closed, you have the right to get the PEDs of the account and the TT value of the items.
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
Also in the case of people passing away perhaps provisions should be made to allow us to fill in details of a special company to deal with our estate/property in such a situation i.e. we would instruct the company what to do and MA would hold details of that company. A kind of a virtual will if you like.
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I would very much like a last will, legal, to be an option. Seen debacles when someone passes.
 
The Great Adventurer said:
No, they are not.

You do not personally own anything in your Entropia account, including the virtual currency. Here are some key points from the terms:


  • ...
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MindArk understands, unlike some players, that this is a necessary protective clause for the unfortunate event that they might be unable to continue operations which uphold this virtual economy, but that for as long as the in-game economy functions, ensuring trust in its virtual property is paramount. They were tempted to interfere with this principle exactly once (aah, the egg...) and learned to never do it again. If you cannot appreciate why this is important, you are in the wrong game.
 
Erastothenes said:
I would very much like a last will, legal, to be an option. Seen debacles when someone passes.
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In past guidance from MA on that, it’s basically up to you to put how to handle your EU account, including instructions to the administrator of your estate on how to login to your account, contact MA with verification, etc.
 
Erastothenes said:
I would very much like a last will, legal, to be an option. Seen debacles when someone passes.
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There is a standard procedure for handling this, similar to the process you would follow with a conventional bank and assets. The individual must draft a statement indicating who will inherit their assets or property, in accordance with the laws of the country you live in.

The designated inheritor of the assets must then provide documentation to the bank and other relevant parties, such as MinArk, confirming the individual's passing and asserting their rightful ownership of the assets. This document you will get or the person will get when some one pass away.
Personally, it's essential to include the value of my in-game assets in my tax filings, but I do not know how this law is in diffrent countrys.
 
Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
And who would be the judge whether an account was dead or not?
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MindArk. Do you not read?

Inactivated Account/Account Inactivation You acknowledge and agree that Your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed inactive if it has not been logged into for a period of ninety consecutive days.

Terminated Account/Account Termination means that the Account is purged and that You will no longer be able to retrieve its contents or to re-activate it to access Entropia Universe. Purging the Account means that, when applicable, all skills will be deleted, any estate deeds will be transferred back to MindArk and/or MindArk's Partner and the virtual objects on the Account will be exchanged for their Trade Terminal (TT) value. The aggregated value will be added to the balance on the PED Card connected to Your Account for You to withdraw if exceeding the minimal withdrawal limit of 1 000 PED. Any pending transactions involving a Terminated Account will be revoked.

You acknowledge and agree that Your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed to have been abandoned by You and consequently automatically Terminated if it has not been accessed for a period of 365 consecutive days (i.e. 275 days after an account becomes inactive as described above).
 
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