Innovations to end the Uber Hunting suffering and increase players

[Simpleton]

What you write reveals who you are. You write and reveal about yourself in fact.

I really cared for making things better including for ubers and as a semi-uber I can see and I have experienced the problem and can sometimes find it too boring and not good for health to be this much at keyboard in the game. It happens much more for ubers.

You can be jealous about them but yes they are human and we (most people) care.


"they got it good here"

- This is one of them: "I hunt like 20hours out of 24 during mayhem times! You think I like doing that? No I don't"
And s/he is not alone. We care.
Semi-ubers like me experience the problem to some extent as well.

It is a player issue, not MA issue. Players should play responsibly, that includes taking care of themselves physically.

You left out the important detail when quoting the hunter where he stated it was his choice to play so many hours. Imposing paternalism onto the playerbase will not fix this problem. The player can still stay awake 20 hours to play other games if entropia suddenly got restricted to less than 20 hours per day.

 

[shaun117]

I have debilitating body issues because im addicted to playing entropia every waking moment of my life mindark are to blame for sure with that one

 

[Arm]

It is a player issue, not MA issue. Players should play responsibly, that includes taking care of themselves physically.

You left out the important detail when quoting the hunter where he stated it was his choice to play so many hours. Imposing paternalism onto the playerbase will not fix this problem. The player can still stay awake 20 hours to play other games if entropia suddenly got restricted to less than 20 hours per day.

Do not impose labels on me. Try to contribute instead. Using labels such as "paternalism" do not justify what you say, I did not say it was not their choice and it is evident it is their choice and it is also evident MA should care about player health issues arising from the game. Choice of people does not dispose social responsibility and legal responsibility of companies providing services and goods.

I did not say we should restrict Entropia, I said there can be automation facilities which bring similar results for players and MA, while solving the tedious hunting physical challenge (for those who choose).

Besides MA responsibility, that we do care as players, is also quite natural. Which was what I did.

 

[Arm]

I have debilitating body issues because im addicted to playing entropia every waking moment of my life mindark are to blame for sure with that one

Reminder: it is not a blame game, it is seeking innovations, for change, for a better Universe.

 

[Sirhc]

A hunter: "I hunt like 20hours out of 24 during mayhem times! You think I like doing that? No I don't"

That is a serious case of FOMO. I would really start to question my relationship to this game and others if I was playing that many hours a day but to each their own.

While MA frowns on macros I don't really see them going out of their way to enforce those rules. Lots of bots from noober to uber already so I don't think they will waste development time on making things more automated. Maybe UE5 will add in some elements that reward players who play and pay attention rather than set and forget. I won't hold my breath on that one. I just know if everyone is botting all the time and its the only way to get decent loot then I've got other games and interests that my entertainment dollars can be spent on.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Here is an idea.

Create some kind of permanent battle agains´t a horde of big mobs that only the big big players can tank. These loot the outputs and some other cool things and shrapnel.

This way big players can just afk battle together those mobs.

The catch is that if the players fail to protect from the invasion, if they are over run, the horde of mobs "conquests" a part of a server rendering it useless (to many mobs to hunt or mine there). Then the players would have to organize as a community to get it back from them so to have the server back.

A permanent lore with a permanent battle going on. People love massive multiplayer battles. Good PvP ain´t happening so soon, so why not a massive battle against the mobs?

*Not just a drop the spawn type of thing. The Ai should march towards an objective to gain terrain. Players on "defensive" stance that can change to "offensive" if needed when over run.

 

[Gente Malparido]

Honestly think this is just a Troll thread , Innovation or Re-invent the wheel?

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Here is an idea.

Create some kind of permanent battle agains´t a horde of big mobs that only the big big players can tank. These loot the outputs and some other cool things and shrapnel.

This way big players can just afk battle together those mobs.

The catch is that if the players fail to protect from the invasion, if they are over run, the horde of mobs "conquests" a part of a server rendering it useless (to many mobs to hunt or mine there). Then the players would have to organize as a community to get it back from them so to have the server back.

A permanent lore with a permanent battle going on. People love massive multiplayer battles. Good PvP ain´t happening so soon, so why not a massive battle against the mobs?

*Not just a drop the spawn type of thing. The Ai should march towards an objective to gain terrain. Players on "defensive" stance that can change to "offensive" if needed when over run.

Sadly, they can't do this because of lag.

Anything innovative that includes a large number of creatures or players has to wait until UE5.

 

[jwestonmoss]

I think I'm seeing some elements of the so-called "idle gaming" in here.

But I think you run into a few key problems.

If you allow this form of gameplay to run roughly equal pec-to-pec efficient compared to active play, people will only login for about 10 minutes a day and the game world will be a ghost town. Social interaction is absolutely keeping some people in this game that otherwise would have left already, I don't know the true number, but it's not trivial. Any mmo has a social component and making it an idle game nukes that from orbit. So there's that.

If you make it less efficient than normal play, then lots of people won't do it. We already take a tt loss as it is. Would people take a significant increase in tt loss to not play the game? Why? so they can show stuff off to their friends who also don't play the game?

Personally I think this is going in the wrong direction. We already have a large subculture of botters as it is, especially in instanced mayhem.

Instead what we need is the opposite. Gameplay elements that reward active play and attention. I have recommended various methods of doing that over the last couple years.

If a gameplay element is so agonizingly grindy and boring that we are considering ways to "stop the pain of playing the game", then that is call for a reimagining of the gameplay element, not for creating a workaround to allow us to "not play the game".

 

[jwestonmoss]

Though I do appreciate your attempt to provide solutions to problems. I think we just disagree about what the solution should be.

 

[Simpleton]

Do not impose labels on me. Try to contribute instead. Using labels such as "paternalism" do not justify what you say, I did not say it was not their choice and it is evident it is their choice and it is also evident MA should care about player health issues arising from the game. Choice of people does not dispose social responsibility and legal responsibility of companies providing services and goods.

I did not say we should restrict Entropia, I said there can be automation facilities which bring similar results for players and MA, while solving the tedious hunting physical challenge (for those who choose).

Besides MA responsibility, that we do care as players, is also quite natural. Which was what I did.

I did contribute. My message was play responsibly.

The whole point of "paternalism" was to be short and concise in my writing. It means something like taking away the choice of a person for their own good. Hunting is an active activity. Currently, we need to choose how we go about doing it due to our own limits. Do we play for many hours per day? or few? or share account with another person? or something else? Choices, choices. But you want hunting revamped to be effectively like a crafting machine where we spend a few minutes logging in, setting up the run and not attending to it for the rest of the day. Not only that, it is in the name of reducing suffering of others players and perhaps yours too. The problem here is that it does not apply to all players since we are all built differently. Some people can sit for long periods of time, some can stay awake longer, etc. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. A better strategy for you (and anyone else suffering) would be to focus on yourself and see what you can do to improve your situation. Adapt instead of demanding the system change for you.

The hypothetical example regarding restricting entropia gameplay was to emphasis the importance of self-restraint and playing responsibly.

 

[Arm]

That is a serious case of FOMO. I would really start to question my relationship to this game and others if I was playing that many hours a day but to each their own.

While MA frowns on macros I don't really see them going out of their way to enforce those rules. Lots of bots from noober to uber already so I don't think they will waste development time on making things more automated. Maybe UE5 will add in some elements that reward players who play and pay attention rather than set and forget. I won't hold my breath on that one. I just know if everyone is botting all the time and its the only way to get decent loot then I've got other games and interests that my entertainment dollars can be spent on.

When everybody has a fair and simple option of automation, with a cap, it is not scary anymore. It will be a nice facility with benefits for everybody.

 

[Arm]

I did contribute. My message was play responsibly.

The whole point of "paternalism" was to be short and concise in my writing. It means something like taking away the choice of a person for their own good. Hunting is an active activity. Currently, we need to choose how we go about doing it due to our own limits. Do we play for many hours per day? or few? or share account with another person? or something else? Choices, choices. But you want hunting revamped to be effectively like a crafting machine where we spend a few minutes logging in, setting up the run and not attending to it for the rest of the day. Not only that, it is in the name of reducing suffering of others players and perhaps yours too. The problem here is that it does not apply to all players since we are all built differently. Some people can sit for long periods of time, some can stay awake longer, etc. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. A better strategy for you (and anyone else suffering) would be to focus on yourself and see what you can do to improve your situation. Adapt instead of demanding the system change for you.

The hypothetical example regarding restricting entropia gameplay was to emphasis the importance of self-restraint and playing responsibly.

That's now a better way of putting forward what you mean.

"taking away the choice"
- choice is not taken away, a new choice is given, that you can automate if you like (with an automation cap), and when you like, with a cap. I can personally sit for hours at the desk but it is not what I always want to do and it is not good to do too much. Many others want an automation option and it does not hurt anybody else when it has a cap (say a daily hunt count cap when you use automation that day).

Also note that sometimes people need to attend to other important work as well. A 30 years old parent during mayhem cannot forget about life and children and hunt for 20 hours a day (what if some people are tempted to do so? and many people "at least to some extent"?), or students with important assignments, while "automation with a daily hunt cap (on the day automation is used)" can solve the problem without hurting others. Can increase active and paying player count and player satisfaction (key to more profit for everybody). And yes there are details to take care of, and yes it can be taken care of to produce the final solution. This a new facility, a new choice given, and I am sure many players will love it and almost everybody choose to use it in some situations.

Metaverse is taking shape and people spend more hours while there is a physical life to take care of as well. The balance between the two is not just on the shoulder of metaverse residents, it is the responsibility of solution providers as well to help reasonably.

I think we will see explicit regulations and much demand regarding this in future in Europe. Those who start sooner will take lead and will have more fans and players and residents.

 

[Flash]

This is just ridiculous..this is all about not being able to collect Tokens 24/7 during Mayham !! and therefore want an opportunity to automate the hunt to avoid having to play by yourself! I know for sure that there are players who use macros for that, who play sparingly during the rest of the year only to suddenly during Mayham play 24/7! What this game needs is more active gameplay not less! Mindark needs to find a way that rewards active gaming so we get rid of all macroplayers! With every automation that is introduced, my willingness to log in is getting less and less, it's hard to talk to an afk player if you need to! and it's interaction with other players that keeps me logging in and playing after almost 20 years!

Regards/Flash

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

macro world
resource inflation
_ ._ _ , _ ._
(_ ' ( ` ) _ .__)
( ( ( ) `) ))) ) ) _)
(__ (_ (_ . _) _) ,__)
`~ ~`\ ' . /`~ ~`
; ;
/ \
_____________/_ __ \_____________
pre macro​

 

[Arm]

This is just ridiculous..this is all about not being able to collect Tokens 24/7 during Mayham !! and therefore want an opportunity to automate the hunt to avoid having to play by yourself! I know for sure that there are players who use macros for that, who play sparingly during the rest of the year only to suddenly during Mayham play 24/7! What this game needs is more active gameplay not less! Mindark needs to find a way that rewards active gaming so we get rid of all macroplayers! With every automation that is introduced, my willingness to log in is getting less and less, it's hard to talk to an afk player if you need to! and it's interaction with other players that keeps me logging in and playing after almost 20 years!

Regards/Flash

What you miss:
1. With automation all legally sound people who do not use illegal macros will get justice and benefit from the facility
2. All those who need to automate in some days get the facility
3. Of course we do not automate all the time, to think we are here just for tokens is quite wrong
4. Active game play is good in some cases and not needed in other cases, this needs to be fun, fair and profitable in some way (Euro-wise for MA, PED-wise or in other terms for players). It does not need to be always Active gaming for hours.
5. When you cap automation, it means that in a day in which you use automation you will have hunting cap and you may pay a small fee, such as 1% of loot (a system can be devised).

You seem to be unable or unwilling to tweak the idea in your mind and see the good potential for all of us.

 

[Arm]

macro world
resource inflation
_ ._ _ , _ ._
(_ ' ( ` ) _ .__)
( ( ( ) `) ))) ) ) _)
(__ (_ (_ . _) _) ,__)
`~ ~`\ ' . /`~ ~`
; ;
/ \
_____________/_ __ \_____________
pre macro​

Problems happen when you have a naïve automation solution. You work on it (hunting cap, player levels, automation fee, automation token, automation weapon attachment crafting, Auto Ore, Level 100+, only-in-mayhem, ...), then it can become something you will wonder: why didn't we do it sooner?

 

[pheebseu]

what a terrible idea

 

[SoberPhil]

I think they should just introduce autocombat like those south-korean crossplatform MMOs that seem to generate tons of profit for their developers while being purely pay to win. EU should go crossplatform as well.

 

[MrFatBoy]

What you write reveals who you are. You write and reveal about yourself in fact.

I really cared for making things better including for ubers and as a semi-uber I can see and I have experienced the problem and can sometimes find it too boring and not good for health to be this much at keyboard in the game. It happens much more for ubers.

You can be jealous about them but yes they are human and we (most people) care.


"they got it good here"

- This is one of them: "I hunt like 20hours out of 24 during mayhem times! You think I like doing that? No I don't"
And s/he is not alone. We care.
Semi-ubers like me experience the problem to some extent as well.

call it jealousy if you want. But your post is nothing more than a self serving wish.

i am typing this one day after getting the 2nd of 2 hands operated on for carpal tunnel and trigger finger - and i am not high level and no uber.... is this game responsible? you hear me crying to make it easier? The poor uber hunters who choose to play 20 hours a day - cry me a river

Keep trying to say your doing it to make the game better for all or help the uber hunters or whatever -you think your semi uber so really its about you wanting it to be easier for YOU too. you do admit that which is admirable but it is still very self serving regardless.

Anyone that plays 20 hours a day is because they make a lot of $ (or are just heavily addicted and should seek help) so if they get a physical issue because of that - welcome to the club!

I don't wish anyone to get a physical issue but own up to your choices, having issues play less. Simple solution.

I mean i can suggest things that make the game better too - like everyone pays to play so we can all have better TT returns? why not do that ? play more pay more.

if it cost $ then people will only play the number of hours they can afford this would be self serving for me but also would benefit the vast majority of players so MA should do this not what you want that only helps a small % of players.

you agree?

 

[Ranavolana]

Here is an idea.

Create some kind of permanent battle agains´t a horde of big mobs that only the big big players can tank. These loot the outputs and some other cool things and shrapnel.



The catch is that if the players fail to protect from the invasion, if they are over run, the horde of mobs "conquests" a part of a server rendering it useless (to many mobs to hunt or mine there). Then the players would have to organize as a community to get it back from them so to have the server back.

A permanent lore with a permanent battle going on. People love massive multiplayer battles. Good PvP ain´t happening so soon, so why not a massive battle against the mobs?

*Not just a drop the spawn type of thing. The Ai should march towards an objective to gain terrain. Players on "defensive" stance that can change to "offensive" if needed when over run.

My God that reminds me of the very first MMORPG game I ever played - the World Domination, I used to love playing Russia. When the Russians & their allies played the "West"? Where we would attack an enemy province on the map & eventually a group would win. And sadly sometimes when I logged on again to fight in that battle - get an angry Russian voice screaming at me that I had failed & the Allies had won - it was humiliating But if WE had wone - such praise, there should have been medals

If MA could something like that in Red Alert \o/

 

[Arm]

call it jealousy if you want. But your post is nothing more than a self serving wish.

i am typing this one day after getting the 2nd of 2 hands operated on for carpal tunnel and trigger finger - and i am not high level and no uber.... is this game responsible? you hear me crying to make it easier? The poor uber hunters who choose to play 20 hours a day - cry me a river

Keep trying to say your doing it to make the game better for all or help the uber hunters or whatever -you think your semi uber so really its about you wanting it to be easier for YOU too. you do admit that which is admirable but it is still very self serving regardless.

Anyone that plays 20 hours a day is because they make a lot of $ (or are just heavily addicted and should seek help) so if they get a physical issue because of that - welcome to the club!

I don't wish anyone to get a physical issue but own up to your choices, having issues play less. Simple solution.

I mean i can suggest things that make the game better too - like everyone pays to play so we can all have better TT returns? why not do that ? play more pay more.

if it cost $ then people will only play the number of hours they can afford this would be self serving for me but also would benefit the vast majority of players so MA should do this not what you want that only helps a small % of players.

you agree?

You seem to be not able to see that people can go beyond selfish reasons. Also it may be hard for you to see that they may think about their benefits at the same time, which is quite OK.

Also I do not believe you. You operated for playing game (and you happen to do that just after a relevant thread is created) and you are against an "option" to make life easier for you? Fishy. Does not look real. I do not know. Anyway some game stakeholders may resist change or may stick to their old opinions, or maybe they think by saying they are not responsible it goes away. Morally it never goes away. Legally, well, wait and see the European regulations coming.

 

[Arm]

Any Uber opinion on how automation can be done without bad side effects? Any known Ubers against this with a good reason?

Reminder: Problems happen when you have a naïve automation solution. You work on it (hunting cap, player levels, automation fee, automation token, automation weapon attachment crafting, Auto Ore, Level 100+, only-in-mayhem, ...), then it can become something you will wonder: why didn't we do it sooner?

 

[Arm]

Honestly think this is just a Troll thread , Innovation or Re-invent the wheel?

Re-inventing wheel? Do you sell automation software?
Do you not see the new ideas here to tweak the systemic automation challenges in the game?
How can so much reason and compassion be a troll thread? I am among the society leaders (famous society) and a known player with ATH. Some people use labels to substitute reason. If you had reasonable answers or alternative solutions, you did not need to attack.

 

[Arm]

Here is an idea.

Create some kind of permanent battle agains´t a horde of big mobs that only the big big players can tank. These loot the outputs and some other cool things and shrapnel.

This way big players can just afk battle together those mobs.

The catch is that if the players fail to protect from the invasion, if they are over run, the horde of mobs "conquests" a part of a server rendering it useless (to many mobs to hunt or mine there). Then the players would have to organize as a community to get it back from them so to have the server back.

A permanent lore with a permanent battle going on. People love massive multiplayer battles. Good PvP ain´t happening so soon, so why not a massive battle against the mobs?

*Not just a drop the spawn type of thing. The Ai should march towards an objective to gain terrain. Players on "defensive" stance that can change to "offensive" if needed when over run.

Thank you for contributing with ideas.

 

[Arm]

I think I'm seeing some elements of the so-called "idle gaming" in here.

But I think you run into a few key problems.

If you allow this form of gameplay to run roughly equal pec-to-pec efficient compared to active play, people will only login for about 10 minutes a day and the game world will be a ghost town. Social interaction is absolutely keeping some people in this game that otherwise would have left already, I don't know the true number, but it's not trivial. Any mmo has a social component and making it an idle game nukes that from orbit. So there's that.

If you make it less efficient than normal play, then lots of people won't do it. We already take a tt loss as it is. Would people take a significant increase in tt loss to not play the game? Why? so they can show stuff off to their friends who also don't play the game?

Personally I think this is going in the wrong direction. We already have a large subculture of botters as it is, especially in instanced mayhem.

Instead what we need is the opposite. Gameplay elements that reward active play and attention. I have recommended various methods of doing that over the last couple years.

If a gameplay element is so agonizingly grindy and boring that we are considering ways to "stop the pain of playing the game", then that is call for a reimagining of the gameplay element, not for creating a workaround to allow us to "not play the game".

Thank you for contributing to the discussion.

I call for decreasing the boring and harmful part of the gameplay when the players choose to use the "option". It means that rather than 20 hours, people play for 5 hours and can do more fun things and their recreation has a better balance with their life. You are right that innovations and designs should help with that otherwise the gameplay will decrease even further unless for people who sell things or do other things.

The revenues of players and MA can be similar to past (if not more) given the automation tweak ideas provided. More new players join as the stupid tedious part of the game has been controlled.

Let me remind you one of the tweak: the option can be available from level 100+

Two other: not all hunting may be automatable, and there can be daily hunt cap as well when automation is used that day



Would you share some of those ideas you said you had during the last two years?

 

[MrFatBoy]

You seem to be not able to see that people can go beyond selfish reasons. Also it may be hard for you to see that they may think about their benefits at the same time, which is quite OK.

Also I do not believe you. You operated for playing game (and you happen to do that just after a relevant thread is created) and you are against an "option" to make life easier for you? Fishy. Does not look real. I do not know. Anyway some game stakeholders may resist change or may stick to their old opinions, or maybe they think by saying they are not responsible it goes away. Morally it never goes away. Legally, well, wait and see the European regulations coming.

i did not say the surgeries were related to the game? I am simply stating that i have just had surgery and can still play and type because i chose to - if that makes it worse its my fault. I do taxes for a living so for 4 months a year its 12-15 hours a day on a computer - that's probably 90% of the cause of my issues but i choose to continue in that career because i make good $ - like some playing this game so to me its the price you pay to get the $. yea is sucks but not the end of the world.

beyond my job this game is the only other thing i do that is very KB intensive and i still would not ask for changes even if i did think it as partly to blame (i dont). it is my choice to use the KB and mouse for more hours than i need to so i accept the issues and blame myself only.

i believe you want to make the game better but honestly it just benefits a small number of players that play too many hours, more then everyone else. that's my opinion. your intent may not be selfish but it doesn't change the fact that you choose to play 20 hours a day because you want something or enjoy it or whatever. i hope you never get any issues but if you do you should play less.

maybe your right and i am being blinded by my own views but its kind of hard not to be after years an years of never getting anything. From my point of view far to few get FAR to much so at least it should be hard for them to get what they get.

Plus most just use the F key anyway not like they click every shot so really i see no issues that needs fixing. imo.

If MA choses to change the game then fine so be it - not like i am all of a sudden going to benefit from it anyway.

 

[NoBion]

Unfortunately EU have been turned in to less of a game more than any game i know. Population is fairly low due to this. Any new player soon experience the dull gameplay and leaves.

Now they will have a hard time fixing that as they might loose the hardcore players if they implement active combat.

I hope they will, me and a load of casual players would most likely be active again. And the world be alive again

 

[PreyNaika]

Me and a load of other players are active

 

[Arm]

Unfortunately EU have been turned in to less of a game more than any game i know. Population is fairly low due to this. Any new player soon experience the dull gameplay and leaves.

Now they will have a hard time fixing that as they might loose the hardcore players if they implement active combat.

I hope they will, me and a load of casual players would most likely be active again. And the world be alive again

Both types of game can co-exist together.

Idea for improvement considering your input: for mass-hunting, your equipment statistics can become 100 fold and you kill a L6000 boss mob of the chosen mob in an instance through active combat where such active-combat gaming skills are rewarded (something like: hit the head, get a "critical hit"), and then the daily hunt cap applies to you that day. There can be a 1% fee for this and it can be unlocked by buying an attachment for weapon or passing a certain level in combat such as lvl100.

This can be an instance in mayhem instances at the beginning to test it. Let's say you activate the attachment and choose a lvl60 Zombie, it becomes L6000 with 100x hp. Or you right-click zombie and choose its instance to meet its mas-hunting boss.

This would be cool !