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Question: is boting good ?

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Goldenboy24

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Jun 20, 2012
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i have recently realized, that alot of people actually belive that bots in entropia are a positive thing for the game, their main arguement is, bots play 24/7, therefore they generate alot of money for mindark (becouse everybody is losing in TT), therefore bots are a huge revenue source for mindark, therefore mindark doesent even have any interest of enforcing their own rules, and thats a good thing anyway , becouse as we said, bots actually help the game stay alive

il add that in this category of people thinking thats bots are a good thing are also the people who have the attitude of, WE the players, cant do anything to solve this problem anyway.
while it is true, that we dont have that many tools to deal with bots, we can defiently make a stink about it, and force mindark to act, or at least to give us some tools to deal with the problem, but im just curious at this point, how many people subscribe to the idea that bots are beneficial to the longevity of the game
 
Hard to say if its good. It depends on your viewpoint.

Is it good for the economy? If you buy the resources then yes because they become cheaper for you. If you sell then no because you get less for them.

Is it good for the player? If you are trying to avoid repetitive behavior of sitting all day long and smashing that F button with all the health issues that follow that, then yes. You get to stand up and do what you need to do in real life while the PC just plays for you. But macroing to level 1000 and remotely giving the impression that you accomplished this yourself is just lying to yourself, so it would be bad.

Is it good for MA/PP? It increases the revenue for them due to increased turnover, so yes its good. But their own unenforced rules of saying macroing is not allowed is bad for them due to percieved unfairness from the players that play by the rules.

We are see 24/7 hunting in the game because the biggest weapons in the game are not expensive enough to force the player to stop earlier. They can sustain their 24/7 gameplay somehow.
 
Bots and macro users are different

Both are good. Put more money into MA pocket which allows the game to develop.

Community has been gone for a while, hopefully post investment by 2030 it’ll come back.
 
In the hopes of adding something new, which hadn't been said in one of the other 2354534 threads about this:

I think one good aspect is that it teaches a lot of people a little bit of coding? I think, PE is becoming an educational software that teaches IT knowledge besides the financial awareness, patience and gambling fortitude it always has. :silly:(<-this smiley is called silly. You now know how this post is meant, right? right?)
 
Thark said:
In the hopes of adding something new, which hadn't been said in one of the other 2354534 threads about this:

I think one good aspect is that it teaches a lot of people a little bit of coding? I think, PE is becoming an educational software that teaches IT knowledge besides the financial awareness, patience and gambling fortitude it always has. :silly:(<-this smiley is called silly. You now know how this post is meant, right? right?)
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With this line of thinking, coding requires some skill and Entropia Universe is a game of skill. Punishing some skills (making macros and using them) while allowing other types of skill (communication/trading for example) would undermine the statement that this is a game of skill.
 
Yes, they are definitely good. In fact they are the best. People who bot have brought down the EU economy to the shitter of where it is today, but I'm happy. That means items are going down in price, and with a bit of patience you'll be able to buy wanted items for a way cheaper price. That makes me happy. I mean some people have so much shit they can't sell because of how much they think its "worth" they even become things that themselves used to hate on a while back, like renters. But that is good, it teaches them a fucking lesson, the difference between what they think its "worth" and what another player is willing to pay. I say let the botters bot, they'll quit on their own accord when they realise the size of their investment can't be justified for the "pricing" of their items. 😂😂😂
 
sorinel89 said:
Yes, they are definitely good. In fact they are the best. People who bot have brought down the EU economy to the shitter of where it is today, but I'm happy. That means items are going down in price, and with a bit of patience you'll be able to buy wanted items for a way cheaper price. That makes me happy. I mean some people have so much shit they can't sell because of how much they think its "worth" they even become things that themselves used to hate on a while back, like renters. But that is good, it teaches them a fucking lesson, the difference between what they think its "worth" and what another player is willing to pay. I say let the botters bot, they'll quit on their own accord when they realise the size of their investment can't be justified for the "pricing" of their items. 😂😂😂
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But they will sell that "dream" u need to buy this amazing wepon and u will profit 1000%... or now we can see new meta.. COME rent my uber gear profits guaranteed not for you but me hahah :D
 
Even the myth that bots are good for MA's revenue is at the very least debatable, I can't compete with players that play 24/7 so most of the time I don't even try. Nobody plays in a vacuum in this game, I think this myth is just people desperately looking for justification.

The real question is: Good for whom? Well for the botters and nobody else, that's my opinion.

The fact that we are constantly debating this... is shameful... and pointless since MA has decided NOT to enforce their own rules.
 
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Goldenboy24 said:
i have recently realized, that alot of people actually belive that bots in entropia are a positive thing for the game, their main arguement is, bots play 24/7, therefore they generate alot of money for mindark (becouse everybody is losing in TT), therefore bots are a huge revenue source for mindark, therefore mindark doesent even have any interest of enforcing their own rules, and thats a good thing anyway , becouse as we said, bots actually help the game stay alive

il add that in this category of people thinking thats bots are a good thing are also the people who have the attitude of, WE the players, cant do anything to solve this problem anyway.
while it is true, that we dont have that many tools to deal with bots, we can defiently make a stink about it, and force mindark to act, or at least to give us some tools to deal with the problem, but im just curious at this point, how many people subscribe to the idea that bots are beneficial to the longevity of the game
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The fact that more and more people want to use bots means the game is getting more and more boring.
People don't actually want to PLAY anymore, but are just being led by their greed.


I remember the times, years and years ago, when Entropia was bustling with chatter, people actually playing and socializing.

Now it's getting a dead lifeless environment filled with bots.

How healthy is that for a GAME?
Should we embrace that?
 
Deleted - I’ll rewrite this when I have time..

Let’s just say botters would have made a small fortune when TWEN tokens started to drop….

I was even up on Mu…
 
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If botters used limited guns and low EFF/ DPP weapons it would probably be good. Since that's rarely the case and they almost all use guns
that have a pretty high advantage over average players guns, they will keep burning a hole in the economy as long as they're around. If it
weren't for mayhems and the TWEN events, then very few would bot even with the good weapons and looter levels because they would
still lose money on the majority of enemies.

It's been good for MA so far because there has always been markup to chase in mayhems and during TWEN along with a few other things that are profitable, but as more people get economical UL weapons, the demand for limited equipment goes down and is even getting to the point demand for UL goes down. Turnover from bots and everyone overall is going to drop a lot as less markup is there to be had, so I believe allowing botting will be backfiring pretty badly soon unless there is something new around the corner that changes up the hunting meta.
 
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the people who claim that boting is good, and lets assume that mindark also claims that boting is good, since they dont ban them, these people seem to recognize that it would be bad for the game if new players knew that the game was infested with bots, afterall, mindark could anounce tomorow that boting is permited, making more people bot, and generating more revenue for themselfs, but they keep their position that boting is against the rules, lets debate the claim, that bots just lose so much tt value every day becouse they play 24/7, that the avrage player just couldnt suport the game

here i will add that every time i have taken a break from entropia, i did so by losing motivation, a game infested with bots with no end in sight due to lack of MA taking action, on this forum we wont hear from people that quit the game becouse of bots, but it is the main reason why i lose motivation to continue playing.. also adding the fact that it seems a huge ammount of players actually belive that boting is a necessity, giving me the fealing that this problem truly will not get resolved

so lets tackle the main claim bot supporters make, bots generate too much revenue for mindark, therefore we should not get rid of them, to this i say the following, bots generate ALOT of markup, when i have a bot in mind, im not thinking of somebody who is sweating, but somebody who has 200 dps killing molochs nonstop, i assume these players profit, afterall, high eff high skill players i would assume are making good decisions, if boting was just losing them money, why would they bot in that spot, and i have never heard anybody claim that a player can do something within this game that makes him more profitable then a bot, high eff weapons also have better tt returns, if the avrage player has 95% tt returns, and some uber has 99%, then the avarage player can have 5x less dps and still generate same revenue for mindark, but since the bot is profitable, the markup he will generate will be whitdrawn, while if the avarage players makes more markup, he will still lose it, thats becouse the avarage player doesent make good decisions, or hasent bought the best weapon in the game that gives him huge advantage over others (yes the issue of boting is related to gear available to all participants)

i belive, that the revenue generated by bots is an empty claim, get rid of bots raise the markup, higher markup means avarage players has more money to shoot, more money means he will play longer, or play with a stronger weapon, i do not belive that people dont do higher turnover in a month due to lack of time, i belive its due to lack of markup of playing the game, the markup is beeing concentrated in a few hotspots of max gear players playing nonstop, this could still be the case without boting, afterall you can let multiple people play on an account, but that is a hurdle and requieres human time, boting can be done on multiple machines by one player, it is not fair, devalues legit players time investmenet and their motivation for the game, and does not generate more revenue for mindark
 
Botting is absolutely awesome for MMOs. How do you think people pick a new game to try ouy? They look at how much botting is going on within the game, if it's rampant, they will definitely think that it's a good game, worth trying out.
 
Well battlebots tv show is very popular.

Just for the record i can see no long term good coming from macro/botting, but i guess MA stuck between rock and a hard place. By this i mean that MA and PP's may have become partly dependent on the turnover/income from macro/bots as has become more common use.
Long term though i think is bad due to lower turnover/budget players moving elsewhere for their fun, as doing same events are a nono.

To be frank i cannot believe we are even asking if botting is good/bad.
 
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From my Position of view bots/F does a great damage to the economy

While short time its a good thing for mindark, the economy gets a impact for the long runn

Item prices fall
Stackables Fall
Tokens Fall

Increased prices we see on damage enhancers and on ul weapons with big tt

Competitions become a botmayhem
There is no skill involved only grind

The problem is if you want to keep up , you are forced to bot too

Over a longer period of time prices will crash on everything if mindark does not kill the posibility to runn 24/7 nonstop

While me Personaly do not care because i runn a very efficient setup, people who do not runn efficient Setups will suffer the most, its a real diference if you sell oils for 103 or 101 because bots did oversupply the market

Nanocubes shud be above 103 constant,
Low mu on oils also impacts nanocubes
Nanocubes are still broken what leads to a oversupply for nanocubes already.

I sugguest to hire a new balance Manager, if mindark is not willing to do something against bots

When ue 5 Hits we will see oils and nanocubes for 100.01%

We will get considerable more players
And considerable more bots
All in all a pile of big Sh...

Impact on ul weapons prices will skyrocket specialy on the high effi low to mid lvl ones
Because 1. Only possible way to runn your gameplay 2. Natural demand of increased playerbase


Bots never do a good thing theyr like chancer,slowly destroying everything

Think about it @mindark
 
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I think it is similar to abusive relationships. Getting by is still possible but the abused party is not able to kick out the abuser for whatever reason it comes down to.
It also results in others avoiding you after a while, others who could support you and see you grow. But there is only so much a person who is free from narcs will take, and the dependence becomes self-fulfilling.
Whatever rules are there, they should be enforced - a level playing field at whatever level of freedom or rules is decided upon.

It's not just botting. The phenomenon of alts is also strong, but against MA rules. My position is that MA should allow more than one avatar per person, maybe in a pseudo family of up to five linked avatars, for example. This would cancel out the main advantages current alts have, but with an element of cohesion and trackability if 'legalised' by MA.
 
robber said:
But they will sell that "dream" u need to buy this amazing wepon and u will profit 1000%... or now we can see new meta.. COME rent my uber gear profits guaranteed not for you but me hahah :D
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What really amuses me is how they come up with figures plucked from thin air as collateral. It really makes me fucking laugh out loud, let's say I was in the position of having that much ped on my card. I'd be FUCKED if I'd ever fork out so much ped as "collateral" to someone that is clearly delusional about what their crap is worth or even how much most players spend in fucking pixels. Even now, as I type this on a beach far away, I'm laughing my fucking head off at this concept. 😂😂😂
 
Goldenboy24 said:
the people who claim that boting is good, and lets assume that mindark also claims that boting is good, since they dont ban them, these people seem to recognize that it would be bad for the game if new players knew that the game was infested with bots, afterall, mindark could anounce tomorow that boting is permited, making more people bot, and generating more revenue for themselfs, but they keep their position that boting is against the rules, lets debate the claim, that bots just lose so much tt value every day becouse they play 24/7, that the avrage player just couldnt suport the game

here i will add that every time i have taken a break from entropia, i did so by losing motivation, a game infested with bots with no end in sight due to lack of MA taking action, on this forum we wont hear from people that quit the game becouse of bots, but it is the main reason why i lose motivation to continue playing.. also adding the fact that it seems a huge ammount of players actually belive that boting is a necessity, giving me the fealing that this problem truly will not get resolved

so lets tackle the main claim bot supporters make, bots generate too much revenue for mindark, therefore we should not get rid of them, to this i say the following, bots generate ALOT of markup, when i have a bot in mind, im not thinking of somebody who is sweating, but somebody who has 200 dps killing molochs nonstop, i assume these players profit, afterall, high eff high skill players i would assume are making good decisions, if boting was just losing them money, why would they bot in that spot, and i have never heard anybody claim that a player can do something within this game that makes him more profitable then a bot, high eff weapons also have better tt returns, if the avrage player has 95% tt returns, and some uber has 99%, then the avarage player can have 5x less dps and still generate same revenue for mindark, but since the bot is profitable, the markup he will generate will be whitdrawn, while if the avarage players makes more markup, he will still lose it, thats becouse the avarage player doesent make good decisions, or hasent bought the best weapon in the game that gives him huge advantage over others (yes the issue of boting is related to gear available to all participants)

i belive, that the revenue generated by bots is an empty claim, get rid of bots raise the markup, higher markup means avarage players has more money to shoot, more money means he will play longer, or play with a stronger weapon, i do not belive that people dont do higher turnover in a month due to lack of time, i belive its due to lack of markup of playing the game, the markup is beeing concentrated in a few hotspots of max gear players playing nonstop, this could still be the case without boting, afterall you can let multiple people play on an account, but that is a hurdle and requieres human time, boting can be done on multiple machines by one player, it is not fair, devalues legit players time investmenet and their motivation for the game, and does not generate more revenue for mindark
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lol, no.

i know I have been kidding before but you seem to have it all wrong. People dont say they like botting cuz its generally good in every way for every player in every situation, what they are saying is MA wont do anything because it makes MA money. And at least right now, its good for MA's bottom line in the time frame they consider important. If it gets even worse this might change but as it is right now, they wont take action - as is proven by them not taking action, duhh.

Also people dont bot molochs because the stupid oils make them profit via MU. And poor us cant compete because we cant loot more oils than them?! really? I personally doubt Moloch is profitable, thats more like gambling via explosive BP, but if anything, if it were profitable it would be via rare drops (titan).

People saying botting is a "problem" mean in mayhem for example, because high eff weapons with tons of dps allows you to get MU by farming tokens and stuff "way too" fast. This way only those get to pull items from the vendor. The people doing the botting that way, loose tons of money in TT (to MA, so MA dont care) but make it back by selling the pulled weapons.

People saying MU gets generated by bots mean that because bots use (for example) so many enhancers, pyrite and output amps at least have some MU because so much of it gets used in, for example, mayhem. Again, the ones using the enhancers lose tons of money doing it, but make it back by selling that one pull. So one more person depos to get that gun, he is happy, the one botting is happy cuz he lost 160k but was able to pull a 200k gun and the people making enhancers and profiting along that supply chain are happy. The ones who are not happy are all the people who cant/wont code a bot and would take 2.5y of mayhems to get those kinda numbers in tokens, by now the expensive guns are gone BUTt they saved themselves some TT loss by not participating too much after redulite mission, so it might still be profitable. But its still "unfair" to them in their midn. There you have several groups of people too, some who would have the money to spend 160k to earn the 200k gun but dont bot, some who have the money and bot, some who wont spend that much so only do redulite but bot, and some who dont bot. and so on.

Other people are just jumping on the band wagon hating on botters without understanding whats really going on... like for example thinking the animal oil market is the way it is because of bots? These people just read some half assed post implying the stuff above but dont understand whats really going on. Its becoming like loot theory threads where people dont understand basic statistics. yeah right, you can either get an ath or not, so chances are 50/50 eh? (not against the post I quoted, I just felt these sorta posts in general miss alot of the nuance and stuff thats going on)

Mu in general hunting loot has never been high, before bots, before explosives, before nanocubes, when peds were still in loot, what ever. in 2006 we also TTed a lot of our loot.

Long enough, lots left out, probably gonna get some weird ass replies. stupid discussion about MU is stupid. stop it. noone serious is talking about oils, or tier comps or something. ever since after the first few mayhems this game has been about events. thats what people mean with MU. sure sure in the selling threads the ones selling the pulled items talk a big game about how you can make it too and how great this is to farm mu, but its not about some stupid hides, wools, tier comps, oils or other generic loot.

Ok one more thing: Yes botting does devalue other non-botting players time. But why? Because like in the example above, it would take them more time to, for example pull a mayhem gun, which are by then worth less, cuz someone botting could play 24h during mayhem and another guy only 10h. But what is the alternative? Go back to limited time mayhems? then we have the dps is king mentality all over again, people chipping out to stay in the same category which they have the top gun for. And some guns (the top of their cat - X5, Terminator, 8 SGA, Arson chips in general, what have you) suddenly have much more value just because dps is king. Its either grind as long as possible or as much as possible in the alotted time for events. Both have downsides.

And I guess that is at the ore of this: is botting good or bad? is a stupid question. its complicated. Lots of interests and influencing factors are needed to answer a very badly defined "good" or "bad". Can there be a great PE without bots, sure. With bots? long term? maybe?

This does not even touch upon another aspect, and that is that the game play for this game is shit. Shooting stuff isnt fun, it just isnt. The fun in this game is the planning, the spread sheets, the calculations, the risk, the reward and the general meta game mechanics. its everything around the core game play loop that is fun. Actually going out to hunt is stupidly boring. Auto aim gun, press heal button when low HP, press gun again. What ever. And no, this wasnt better when we actually had to aim the gun at a mob and press the mouse. It was the same crap, just more annoying. This can't change.. ...

.. what ever, Im not explaining that as well. If you want active game play, lots of other games available. This one is fun for other reasons.
 
Thark said:
Because like in the example above, it would take them more time to, for example pull a mayhem gun, which are by then worth less, cuz someone botting could play 24h during mayhem and another guy only 10h. But what is the alternative? Go back to limited time mayhems? then we have the dps is king mentality all over again, people chipping out to stay in the same category which they have the top gun for.
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Great point made and I would like to add that when the new GR was posted I really could not give a shit about it... Why? Because what are the chances of an avatar, that refuses to pay stupid fucking prices for weapons of other players and prefers to use cdf and L weps still, to actually win a category? Well mine are slim to fuck all, especially because I'm 316 hp so I fall in to the top category.

I keep trying to suggest different structures of mayhems that would allow equity and give disadvantaged avatars a fair chance at it. But it falls on to deaf ears unfortunately and it will be the further downfall of EU.

The mayhem systems need a new, revamped and better structure, thats for sure. But does anyone listen ? Fuck no. They still allow it to continue like this to satisfy their different mascot players getting the all the cream while the majority of other players have had enough and either gave up and diminished their spending signifficantly.

Way to go MA.
 
maybe it is only me beeing old... but i remember times people would play a game just for playing a game, having fun with friends and yes .. dreaming of some nice toys to play with - or even an ATH....nowadays a game is greed, automation, coldness , hate and unfriendly words when peopl show up on "their" radar - very much like RL now where people act selfish and everyone feels entitled to be the belly button of the world... not a nice time to live in ...

and yeah, i am around for almost 15 years... used to klick the button a million times to kill a mob and looting with another click...Boting is NOT gaming - people let their phones dictate their lifes, the news dictate what to think, the enviroment to dictate how to behave .. yes i still prefer to do that all by myself...
 
Mil said:
maybe it is only me beeing old... but i remember times people would play a game just for playing a game, having fun with friends and yes .. dreaming of some nice toys to play with - or even an ATH....nowadays a game is greed, automation, coldness , hate and unfriendly words when peopl show up on "their" radar - very much like RL now where people act selfish and everyone feels entitled to be the belly button of the world... not a nice time to live in ...

and yeah, i am around for almost 15 years... used to klick the button a million times to kill a mob and looting with another click...Boting is NOT gaming - people let their phones dictate their lifes, the news dictate what to think, the enviroment to dictate how to behave .. yes i still prefer to do that all by myself...
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I remember those times, it was all about the fun and hope of hitting big. It takes me back to when I was 18 years old and thats probably why I'm still in the game today. Been around since 2007, I miss those days and I agree with everything you said. Yet another great point made.
 
ohhh come on, i bet our dads dads dads already said that sorta thing. we probably just remember stuff more fondly than it actually was. life isnt so bad today, actually its pretty good! and there are still plenty of games where you can do all of those things. and you probably did play other games too when you remember PE from back then. Its all good, just a little different :)
 
the old days are gone, people are more skilled, they optimize as much as they can, not just in EU, in any game, they will read guides and try to absorb alot of info to perform a task efficiently, boting is part of this efficiency, if it is permited, it will keep growing, why would a player waste any time not playing, when he can just bot for an hour while he eats or takes a shit, andwhy would a player have only one bot runing if he can have multiple ones

lets not go off topic, we have to be united on the issue of boting, either bots are a needed benefit for the game, becouse they generate alot of revenue for mindark, or they are a harm to the economy of the game, untill we come to a conclusion on this, we wont have the support needed to tell MA to take action
 
Brave New World

The rise of bots in this game and others is a lil taster for the whole Play to Earn and similar concepts mankind is being shoved into under various global developments, initiatives and agendas.

Some might perceive it as transforming the world (of gaming) and others may say its killing it.

There is a really strange paradigm emerging that, while promising to make human life more efficient and convinient, is actually making humans redundant. At least it often feels that way.

I am starting to wonder if we will see a revival of more analog activities and life styles contrary to the plans of certain god-complex tech billionaires and semi autistic super nerds. Humans can´t possibly compete with machines in the digital / meta physical realm.

Metaverse, Everything Apps, Selfserving data harvesting digital burocracies. Getting mighty sick of it personally. Everything designed to actually work (better) without human interaction or involvement. Including this game.

Kudos to those who read the trends years ago and now live countryside, grow their own food and found something meaningful to do.

Feels more like living in The Matrix with every passing day.
 
I think there should definitely be some kind of deterrent to complete automation and running an account 24/7.

The main problem I see is that most of the people that put up a stink are fps players and they want it to be a who has the better aim game and not an MMO. I'm 40 years old and I'm not interested in playing a competitive shooter. Also my wife can't and I'm sure many MMO players are like her and can't even play in first person.

If they take out macros and use tool, I'm not sure I would even want to play for more than an hour, but that doesn't mean there isn't ways to stop automation. Some examples (a hud that shows your tt%, ammo, decay), (a tab that would show your direct trades and auction sales for tax or accounting purposes), and (disabling the logging of specific system messages)...
 
Is botting good?
Mindark loves botters. It generate more income for Mindark.
Playerbase hate botters, it drains down the current markup of everything and players havea harder time recouping their losses.
 
well with some avatars being lvl 500 it would be unfair to the rest of us if MA decides enforce their rules now. they should of stopped it 5-6 years ago when they changed cross hairs and made it very simple to macro. im not a fan of macros but at this point its adapt or go extinct.
 
I think the real solution to a lot of these problems is to just reward active gameplay. Create instances or events where player input is required. Leave the bots for mindark to make their revenue but also reward active playstyle - im sure there are tons of great ideas people could come up with.
 
no need to talk about solutions to boting yet, when there is every second comment saying that boting is good for mindark, hence, good for the game, if we punish boting, if we reduce the ammount of bots, what are the positive and negative consequences of that, if everybody is "forced" to play the game, what are the expectations we will see, what will happen with markup, with tt returns, are people going to leave on mass, give your opinions
 
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