Is it normal that punies and guardians drop the same thing?

[kislany]

The last few days I'm experiencing pretty much the same drops from all punies (which I kill with 2 ammo with the M2100), and the various levels of exarosaurs (up to guardian I think lvl 5) and even snablesnots up to lvl 5 which takes me up to 15 or 20 shots with the Opalo. Now I know that I'm talking about low level mobs, but still, considering the difference between the ammo used and the lvl of the mobs (punies vs guardians), is it normal that most drop 1-2 animal muscle oil and a few novas, or 1-2 animal oil residues and blazar, or any of these combinations?

And today I had 3 times in a row no loot from 2 exarosaur guardian and 1 dominant (I think it was lvl 6) whereby I spent quite a few ammo with my Opalo. I usually don't hunt these higher lvl mobs (for my char lvl), but just wanted to see if they drop anything higher. Shouldn't there be a bigger difference between loot as the mobs get more higher lvl? It's seriously discouraging, but shooting punies all the time does get boring...

 

[Rechinul]

Welcome to Entropia Universe, where loot is DYNAMIK!

 

[Az Bloodz]

You need to kill more than 3 mobs to get a picture of its loot.

 

[kislany]

You need to kill more than 3 mobs to get a picture of its loot.

Oh I killed way more than that, over the last 3-5 days I've done this testing quite a lot (the 3 mobs I mentioned were just for the last 20 minutes I've been logged on to the game, as an example).

But anyway my question was about the different mob difficulty dropping the very same nova + 1 animal oil thing. I mean 3 days in a row the same thing from punies up to lvl 5 (and even 6) mobs? Is that normal?

 

[Az Bloodz]

So how many did you kill?

 

[kislany]

I didn't count but I spent about 60 peds (yeah I know it's nothing compared to some of you guys, but afterall the thread is in the newbie section), every time getting ammo of 9 peds, getting back 3-4 peds in TT value. Once I got back 1.7 ped at TT value, as all I had to show for were nova and blazaar fragments with a few animal oils

I mean how much can you get from animal muscle oil and animal oil residue and animal hide anyway?

Back to the original question: is it normal for exarosaur adult, guardian and dominant to drop the same thing as punies over several days (so it's not a one-off thing), or am I just extremely lucky?

Ok just now logged on, was behind PA wehre punies mix with exarosaurs. Killed 2 exarosaurs old, got from both what you see below (took shots from one only).

 

[hoolioz]

It`s meant to be that way now.

Some time before the loot dynamics were changed.
I think it went from (for ex. cost to kill 0.5ped):

noloot - 0.4 - noloot - 0.4 - noloot - noloot - 0.6 - noloot - noloot - noloot - noloot - 5 - noloot

to

0.10 - 0.15 - 0.10 - 0.08 - 0.15 - noloot - 0.60 - 0.07 - 0.07 - 0.10 - 0.07 - 5.00 - 0.08

Basically normal loot was spread out, to minimize no looting creeps.
Long term total is not affected.

 

[kislany]

Ah ok, thanks then.

 

[cWal]

Globally, the stronger is the mob and the better is the loot. This is a general rule. But don't forget loot is randomized.
So you can get some relatively good loot from a low maturity exarosaur, and on the other side some atrox providers, really harder to kill, can be no-looters... The difference is that in case big mobs have loot they will give more return.

 

[Artrat]

It is normal for higher maturity mobs to drop the same type of loot as the lower level ones (and exa, snable and punies do have very similar loot tables).

However the amount of loot should be proportionally higher (in relation to hp).

So for example, if your average loot from a puny (10 hp) is 0.1 ped, then the average loot from a shinkiba young (30 hp) should be roughly 0.3 ped. I believe this ratio is tweaked for some mobs, like atrox, so that they have lower average loot but more globals and HoFs, but as a general rule, it should hold true for most mobs.

As some people have mentioned though it may take a number of mobs before the loot will average out. It has been recommended a few times here on the forum that the minimum number of mobs per hunt should be >100 if you want to see the returns average out.

 

[kislany]

As some people have mentioned though it may take a number of mobs before the loot will average out. It has been recommended a few times here on the forum that the minimum number of mobs per hunt should be >100 if you want to see the returns average out.

Ok got it now, this explains exactly what is happening with the loot. Will keep hunting and I guess it will even out over time. Thanks again everyone for the explanations. It's just so different from other online RPG games that I'm used to playing and I was wondering if I do experience something unusual or I was just unlucky.

 

[mastermesh]

seems to me that you've discoved the reason I switched from hunting exosaur all the time to hunting punies a lot.

On the other hand, both give you extraordinary amounts of no loots and fragments, so it all works out even in the end for the most part.

I think your chances of looting non-stackable stuff is lot higher with exosaur though... However, that does not mean puny won't give up the good stuff on occassion (rare)

Think of it sort of like slot machines at a casino. There's not as much variation between the return on investment in the penny and nickel slots as there is between the penny and quarter slot or the nickel and dollar slots. With puny you are in the penny slots. With exosaur you are in the nickel and dime slots.

 

[Uvas]

The last few days I'm experiencing pretty much the same drops from all punies (which I kill with 2 ammo with the M2100), and the various levels of exarosaurs (up to guardian I think lvl 5) and even snablesnots up to lvl 5 which takes me up to 15 or 20 shots with the Opalo. Now I know that I'm talking about low level mobs, but still, considering the difference between the ammo used and the lvl of the mobs (punies vs guardians), is it normal that most drop 1-2 animal muscle oil and a few novas, or 1-2 animal oil residues and blazar, or any of these combinations?

And today I had 3 times in a row no loot from 2 exarosaur guardian and 1 dominant (I think it was lvl 6) whereby I spent quite a few ammo with my Opalo. I usually don't hunt these higher lvl mobs (for my char lvl), but just wanted to see if they drop anything higher. Shouldn't there be a bigger difference between loot as the mobs get more higher lvl? It's seriously discouraging, but shooting punies all the time does get boring...

You can check out entropedia.com.

They list asll the mobs with all the loots they drop and the frequency that they drop.

Cheers.

 

[Art Jennifer]

The higher the maturity the more chance to loot items... That is what i thought.

 

[wizzszz]

The last few days I'm experiencing pretty much the same drops from all punies (which I kill with 2 ammo with the M2100), and the various levels of exarosaurs (up to guardian I think lvl 5) and even snablesnots up to lvl 5 which takes me up to 15 or 20 shots with the Opalo. Now I know that I'm talking about low level mobs, but still, considering the difference between the ammo used and the lvl of the mobs (punies vs guardians), is it normal that most drop 1-2 animal muscle oil and a few novas, or 1-2 animal oil residues and blazar, or any of these combinations?

Exas drop faps, pixie armour parts, several types of extractors, paint cans (many different colors), Emik 30 (L), and many, many more things.

Same goes pretty much for snables.


Of course they do not drop all that on every kill (makes hardly sense to drop i.e. a mindforce chip with 0.02 PED value, you need bigger loots to have them drop), and in between they drop oils, wool and hide, just like all the punies...


There are detailed information on what a mob drops:
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Mob

 

[mastermesh]

The higher the maturity the more chance to loot items... That is what i thought.

I always thought that it was the higher the maturity, the higher chance of looting something good IF you loot anything, but that by contrast, the higher the maturity, the higher the chance of getting no looters (or so it seems but really it's about the same chance of no loot - just seems higher since the cost is greater so you feel it in your pedcard more when you get no looters on higher maturity)

 

[Az Bloodz]

I always thought that it was the higher the maturity, the higher chance of looting something good IF you loot anything, but that by contrast, the higher the maturity, the higher the chance of getting no looters (or so it seems but really it's about the same chance of no loot - just seems higher since the cost is greater so you feel it in your pedcard more when you get no looters on higher maturity)

Did you get your first global by now?

 

[Spawn]

Exarosaur dominants normally drop a shit load of pixie harnesses and at least one or two fap-18's
emik s30's especially with 60 ped of ammo.

 

[mastermesh]

Did you get your first global by now?

My first global was back in 2007.

Did you get rsi yet?

 

[kislany]

Ok now to turn things around, for a laugh...I next went to Rogue Plains and found shinkibas and combibos. Killed about 15 low lvl shinkibas (I'm doing the iron challenge anyway) and found 4 Chikara Ashvin HR1's dropping almost one after another. My whole inventory screen is all red balls now, as I also have my Vivo

Btw thanks for the Entropedia site, it's great! Checked the shinkiba drops and for the Chikara it says 'uncommon'. Must have snagged the last 4 in the game then (kidding!).
Anyway this restored a bit my faith in all of it, and really I just need to hunt more. But one thing I really got out of it all, if once place doesn't drop anything for a good while, I should change the location a bit. Did anyone experience this as well or it's just a wishful thinking from my part?

 

[STYRM]

Ok now to turn things around, for a laugh...I next went to Rogue Plains and found shinkibas and combibos. Killed about 15 low lvl shinkibas (I'm doing the iron challenge anyway) and found 4 Chikara Ashvin HR1's dropping almost one after another. My whole inventory screen is all red balls now, as I also have my Tivo

Btw thanks for the Entropedia site, it's great! Checked the shinkiba drops and for the Chikara it says 'uncommon'. Must have snagged the last 4 in the game then (kidding!).
Anyway this restored a bit my faith in all of it, and really I just need to hunt more. But one thing I really got out of it all, if once place doesn't drop anything for a good while, I should change the location a bit. Did anyone experience this as well or it's just a wishful thinking from my part?

try searching for an area with a mixed spawn of snable's, combibo, exa and shishkebab..

dunno what your current skills are but you might also try cornundacauda (wich was my first mob, using opalo and goblin armour)

Im not in sync with loot in these mobs at all anymore.. but used to hunt them all the time years ago.. also caudatergus might be a good mob if they still drop goblin and vigi harness.

my experience of hunting these mobs is that the bigger the better.. I looted alot of vigi helmets from big exa, harness from big caudatergus, also hundreds of pixie parts from exa, snable and shinkebab (wich was named daikiba before) the bigger mobs the more likley to loot something good but heard that they stopped dropping much of these items and thats sad.

was talking with a guy yesterday about hunting and how much you need in bankroll and even with something like the opalo you should have enough peds on your ped card so you can go out and hunt 50+ runs before selling your loot.. that might be more that you like to invest in a game but to see loot even out you need to hunt alot... or just be extremly lucky and hit a big one.

say opalo+a101 amp, doing 2k clicks each run

60 peds * 50= 3000 peds not counting decay.. so 5000 peds might be safer. the more the better ofc.. to last the crasy lootswings most ppl seems to experience in EU.

 

[Uvas]

Ok now to turn things around, for a laugh...I next went to Rogue Plains and found shinkibas and combibos. Killed about 15 low lvl shinkibas (I'm doing the iron challenge anyway) and found 4 Chikara Ashvin HR1's dropping almost one after another. My whole inventory screen is all red balls now, as I also have my Tivo

Btw thanks for the Entropedia site, it's great! Checked the shinkiba drops and for the Chikara it says 'uncommon'. Must have snagged the last 4 in the game then (kidding!).
Anyway this restored a bit my faith in all of it, and really I just need to hunt more. But one thing I really got out of it all, if once place doesn't drop anything for a good while, I should change the location a bit. Did anyone experience this as well or it's just a wishful thinking from my part?

I have found that when I have hunted one mob for a long time and I then changed up what I hunt, I hit a few good loots right away. Doesn't have to be a bigger mob, just something different.

 

[Dark Cat]

I can't remember if it was Marco, but there was some employee of MindArk at the time who once said something along the lines of: "The best advice I can give you is that if your loot is bad then switch mob and/or area. If it is still bad then log off and try again later."

I always thought he was hinting at how the loot was distributed when he said that.

 

[Magix]

The higher the maturity the more chance to loot items... That is what i thought.

All loots are different levels:
Hides: Generic < Soft < Fine
Oil: Muscle < Eye < Thyroid < Adrenal etc.
Wool: Wool < Thin Wool < Fine Wool

In general, the higher maturity, the higher level of these drops you get. However, some monsters, like exarosaur, will only drop eye no matter what maturity. Also, other monsters like atrox will start with eye and go up. Therefore, if you track a particular range of maturities, you will see the amount of different levels of items increase as a larger % of total returns, but the total return should be the same depending on how much you spent.


Regarding the OP:
There are about 4 different types of loots you get:
1. No loot.
2. Frag drop.
3. Average drop, multiplier = 1.
4. Mini, global, or hof, multiplier = 5-10,000 X

On most low level monsters, no loot or frag drops are about 30%, or 3 out of 10. It is quite possible to get 5 or even 10 no loots/frags in a row off small monsters.

Average drops are usually set amounts that are 50% to 150% of the monster's health divided by 4. Nearly all weapons in the game are roughly 3 damage per pec. Therefore, if it takes 1 ped (100 pec) of ammo to kill a monster, the loot range is roughly .50 to 1.5 ped.

Big multiplier drops are very rare. In general, you will see one or two about every 50 or so kills, and over 90% of those will not global/hof. Also, because return rates are set at 90%, it is also very likely that getting a big multiplier drop will not cause you to profit, or you will only see a short-term and/or small profit.

Recently, there was a change that reduced the rate of no loot/frag drops and decreased the number of big multiplier drops. Mini's tend to be smaller as well. But, the 90% return is still there. The smallest monster I've hunted since the change were papoo and traskeron, and it appears that the no loot/frag drop rate is lower than before.

Also, I should mention that very large multipliers 1,000+ are often a once in a lifetime event for any player who gets one, and there are many thousands of people yet to get one at all over many years of play. Even hitting a mining tower (500+ multiplier) is extremely rare.

 

[golddude]

Basically normal loot was spread out, to minimize no looting creeps.
Long term total is not affected.

Bs... i was geting 85-90% returns then this happened and i get 30-50% returns... Yes its even allright.. BS...

 

[hoolioz]

Bs... i was geting 85-90% returns then this happened and i get 30-50% returns... Yes its even allright.. BS...

Yeah sorry, i meant "Long term loot SHOULD not be affected"

 

[Naithen]

The puny mission is a joke if were talking about a decent return,i killed 5000 because im skilling short blade.Well the loot is horrible!The experience if your a new player must seem horrible!You never get that "surprise" in the loot and its impossible to get your ped back in returned loot.Theres no globalsisnt getting the swirlies apart of the "draw" or excitment when trying to convince new players to continue hunting?I moved over to exo dominant/gaurdian same area as puny mission and there you will get about 5 to 6 different items all of course have no mu but a new player might want to try them out "after they repair them" because they drop in loot with little tt value.What a HUGE change from the days i first started , no wonder new players dont stick around.

 

[wizz]

The puny mission is a joke if were talking about a decent return,i killed 5000 because im skilling short blade.Well the loot is horrible!The experience if your a new player must seem horrible!You never get that "surprise" in the loot and its impossible to get your ped back in returned loot.Theres no globalsisnt getting the swirlies apart of the "draw" or excitment when trying to convince new players to continue hunting?I moved over to exo dominant/gaurdian same area as puny mission and there you will get about 5 to 6 different items all of course have no mu but a new player might want to try them out "after they repair them" because they drop in loot with little tt value.What a HUGE change from the days i first started , no wonder new players dont stick around.

You draw that conclusion from "just" 5000 punies?

That's like 50.000 HP's, the equivalent of just 25 spiders. 50%< returns is quite common on 25 spider killed runs.


What did you expect from a 10 hp mob?

Well, what I expect from a puny is that it give me good skills and much playtime for little money.
Never expect a swirl from a puny. Although -a long long time ago- I did once global on a Turp young.

And be honest, who still thinks he can actually not lose from hunting (except those few blessed ones)?

And what you did, moving over from punies to exa's, is exactly what MA wants. To bigger you hunt, the more they earn (and the more peds go into my CLD ped flow centre ).

So I disagree with you, the puny mission is not a joke.

 

[Naithen]

You draw that conclusion from "just" 5000 punies?

That's like 50.000 HP's, the equivalent of just 25 spiders. 50%< returns is quite common on 25 spider killed runs.


What did you expect from a 10 hp mob?

Well, what I expect from a puny is that it give me good skills and much playtime for little money.
Never expect a swirl from a puny. Although -a long long time ago- I did once global on a Turp young.

And be honest, who still thinks he can actually not lose from hunting (except those few blessed ones)?

And what you did, moving over from punies to exa's, is exactly what MA wants. To bigger you hunt, the more they earn (and the more peds go into my CLD ped flow centre ).

So I disagree with you, the puny mission is not a joke.

Disagree all you want but your still not right! A "new" player cant just "move along" to a more difficult mob , Puny mob are an "introduction to the game" for new players!The lack of anything good from completing that mission can leave a new player feeling like "hes paying for the skills" theres nothing good about hunting punys.If theres no globals from punys and no mu (markup) and no return to cover your hunt each time out from the loot your getting then i ask "who is getting the profits from the puny missions"??? Its not getting passed on to new hunters.
Do you really want your main point to be a new player should compare the puny mission to the spider mission and expect a 50% loss ever time he goes out to hunt>>>? Why would anyone hunt spiders and feel good about a 50% return in the first place ? Think about the money you need to spend to aquire the skills needed to hunt spiders in the first place not to mention the huge decay your going to suffer on armor/fap and weapon.50% return should be deemed criminal!!

 

[wizz]

The lack of anything good from completing that mission can leave a new player feeling like "hes paying for the skills" theres nothing good about hunting punys.If theres no globals from punys and no mu (markup) and no return to cover your hunt each time out from the loot your getting then i ask "who is getting the profits from the puny missions"??? Its not getting passed on to new hunters.

Yes ofcourse, he's paying for the skills. Who else should pay for the skills? Should they be free? Best to learn that early in the game. Nothing here is for free, except talking and sweating. The rest simply cost ped.

Who's getting the profits from the puny missions?
Well, as for ANY mission, the profits go to MA. The game costs to play. It's not a money maker.

Do you really want your main point to be a new player should compare the puny mission to the spider mission and expect a 50% loss ever time he goes out to hunt>>>? Why would anyone hunt spiders and feel good about a 50% return in the first place ? Think about the money you need to spend to aquire the skills needed to hunt spiders in the first place not to mention the huge decay your going to suffer on armor/fap and weapon.50% return should be deemed criminal!!

No, I don't want my main point to be a comparison with spiders. This was just a random comparison to show that 5000 punies is not that much. It's just 50k hp's. It's not representative for the entire loot system.
And yes, this makes you point valid that it could give the wrong signal to new players. But then again, it's only your personal experience with punies, cuz I also hear of people who actually gain a few ped by hunting them.

The 50% loot return was an example of how "just" 25 spiders can loot. Maybe spider 26 gives you the global to compensate the loss of the first 25. I mean to say that you can only judge the loot system after an endless amount of kills. Don't take the average of "just" 5000 punies as the leading loot system.

Besides that, when I started, there weren't any punies. We started with daiks and snables. Why could we manage back then, and the recent noobs not? Sure, we got killed by daiks and snables, but is that a bad thing? As far as I know, being killed is still free in this game. So the step from punies to daiks is not that big.