Question: Lower UL amps

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,124
Location
Michigan
Society
Apocalyptic
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Why are these valued at such insane prices? lvl 1-3


I can spend 45 ped markup on a DSEC L30, get 3332 uses for a probe TT of 6664 and then buy shrapnel for 100.4% and effectively get 43 probes for free...

this basically gives me a UL2 amp + 800m finder.

Why should I, or anyone else, pay more than 2k to 4k ped for a lvl 1-3 UL?
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,002
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Payn-Inc
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Because you can put an amp on that finder
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,124
Location
Michigan
Society
Apocalyptic
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Because you can put an amp on that finder
this defeats the purpose of smaller UL amps that aim to keep claim sizes under 7 ped for hitting rares.
 

MikeH

Dominant
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Posts
441
Society
AoC 2.0
Avatar Name
Mike KingMike007 Hussey
There is a cap on some resources i beleive its not on tt of claims you can find but on tt you spend per drop. Even L30 seeker unamped break that cap for some ore so chances of find tgat ore is lower and even you find it will be lower size claim than average what you get for other ores.

Btw you can also buy and use shrapnels for normal finders too :p
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,124
Location
Michigan
Society
Apocalyptic
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Btw you can also buy and use shrapnels for normal finders too :p

does nothing for normal finders though. you cut some probe cost but then have to spend markup on amps anyways.

this way you can create a synthetic UL2 amp for nothing.
 

Divinity

Marauder
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Posts
5,123
Location
India
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Divinity Deth Undefined
Why are these valued at such insane prices? lvl 1-3


I can spend 45 ped markup on a DSEC L30, get 3332 uses for a probe TT of 6664 and then buy shrapnel for 100.4% and effectively get 43 probes for free...

this basically gives me a UL2 amp + 800m finder.

Why should I, or anyone else, pay more than 2k to 4k ped for a lvl 1-3 UL?
Because

1. You are confined to the depth of the finder in case of pre amped finders which is not always what u need/want.

2. As hijacker mentioned you have the OPTION to amp a pre amped finder.
 

MikeH

Dominant
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Posts
441
Society
AoC 2.0
Avatar Name
Mike KingMike007 Hussey
does nothing for normal finders though. you cut some probe cost but then have to spend markup on amps anyways.

this way you can create a synthetic UL2 amp for nothing.
On Dsec L30 mu paid 45 ped
Can do 3332 drops = 6664 ped

With 6664 ped you can buy shrapne(@100.4%) worth 6637 ped converting it will get you 6703 ped of ammo.

So you paying 6 ped mu on the finder equivalent to a normal finder + LVL 3 amp.

Thats too little mu if you compare with L amps so its a good option if you want 800m depth and waant to use L lvl 3 amp.

If you have ul amp and do 3332 drops it costs 3332 ped probes . With 3332 ped you can buy 3318 ped worth of shrapnel(@100.4%) convert it to 3351 ped of ammo. In this case you are not paying mu but getting 19 ped of extra ammo.

And if you on other planets it will be hard to find shrapnel and even on caly when its not event sometimes its hard to find shrapnels.

Also with ul amp you have the flexiblity to use different depths.
 

Rattler Llama

Prowler
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
1,123
Location
Denmark
Society
Taciturnity
Avatar Name
Rattler Llama Simpsons
I own an UL level 3 amp, and only use said DSEC 30 finder.

This gives me ore drops of 3 ped per drop and enmatter of 2 ped per drop. This is equal to a regular finder + level 5 on ores, but -0,5 ped on enmatter.

The MU on UL level 5 is 80k - the MU on level 3 is less than half.

Let's compare it to using regular finder + level 5 amp L:

Say I double drop a full level 5 amp at 103% MU - that's 6 ped MU per 50 drop (4x50=200).

In these corona days I cycle up to 5k ped per day.

If I were to do that with level 5 L, I'd have to drop ~18 amps per day (5000/(200+75 probes)). 18x6 ped MU=54 ped MU with this setup.

5000 with my setup is equal to 1000 drops in which I pay about 2 pec per drop in MU = 10 ped per day.

Daily savings compared to lvl 5 (L)=44 ped as of now.

In terms of valuation - how many CLDs would you need to make this? Weekly is 3 ped/deed - 7x44/3=100+CLDs, at 2k+ each... You get the point ;)

Value of UL tools is what you make out of them and how you use em. These tools, in terms of big cycle, are VERY MUCH worth it.

Disclaimer - of course I cant cycle 5k a day 365 days a year, but I've been owning at now since December 2019, and savings compared to regular + level 5 (L) has already saved 20% of it's cost
 

kingofaces

Alpha
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Posts
693
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
There's also the entry level effect at play. More people are willing to pay for a lower level amp than a higher level one. Part of it is just the sheer amount of peds, but similar to the A101 amps, those are the first people consider when going to UL. There's just more demand for them.

That said, the prices don't make sense when you compare them to MU of say level 5 for other low MU L amps. Not everyone crunches the numbers though. I sold my UL Terra 1 because I made more per drop with certain L amps even though my net % went down slightly (i.e., larger volume).
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,124
Location
Michigan
Society
Apocalyptic
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
The shift in UL mining amp markups just doesn't make sense though.

We had previously used a 5 year ROI for valuation on "peds saved" (which is really subjective according to how much you mine).

We had valued a UL5 at 85,000 ped in 2012-2014 when lvl 5 amps were 108.5-112% for (L) and are now 103-103.5% (L) depending on where you shop (occasionally 102.5% or less).

Yet we're still valuing UL amps at insane fucking markups for no reason other than there's very few of them and holders don't want to take the hit on their investment otherwise their 2-3 years of ownership is basically a wash.

The value you get from a UL amp has been cut by more than 1/2 in the last few years meanwhile UL amps (especially lower ones) have managed to creep up. (UL2 was selling 10-12k peds in 2014 - i know because i owned and sold two of them).

Add to that the overall decline in resoruce markups and your profitability on UL amp ownership is less than 25% of what it was 3 years ago (imagine farming shinook for 128% avg output and 0% input) - This is what led Eve and a few other miners to quit because they weren't pulling 50k ped out of the game on a monthly basis anymore.


This isn't meant to be an attack, I jsut want to know where we're going to set the floor for UL amp valuation. Is it going to be another CLD/AUD variation where as ROI goes down we just stretch the valuation from 5 years to 10 to 15 to 20?

Moreover it's usually the same 3-4 avatars buying and selling these things keeping values up because eventually some dumbass will overpay just for hte sake of owning the damn thing
 

Darth Revan

Prowler
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
1,122
Location
Canada
Society
Love Craft Academy
Avatar Name
Darth Reven Reborn
Yet we're still valuing UL amps at insane fucking markups for no reason other than there's very few of them and holders don't want to take the hit on their investment otherwise their 2-3 years of ownership is basically a wash.
This is pretty much relevant to any originally high valued UL item in the game, whether amps, guns, deeds, estates, armor, etc. There is no reason for the majority of MU prices on them, except people already paid that price and don't want to lose out, so they either hold onto it until they can find a buyer willing to pay the stupid price, or they manage to sell it to someone with deep pockets.

Then there are the others who will buy and increase the price even further and just keep listing for sale on forum and ingame at the new price until people think thats just what its worth because its been at that price for the last year or two (without any sales i will add).
 

zeusrocktropian

Guardian
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Posts
349
Location
Rocktropia
Society
Sons of Anarchy
Avatar Name
Bondrea Zeus Andrei
most of these amps are trading at levels above market history
Yes, for some reason it looks like people are willing to pay more markup on low ul amps for half markup on most of the resources that they get. Not to mention that I do believe that some of the rarest resources are capped for any amps used.

As for flexibility goes, you are more flexible with limited amps (now that they are cheap too) for any finder you like.

I was up to buying a UL level 2 amp, but I don't think it makes economic sense at this point.
 

kingofaces

Alpha
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Posts
693
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
I was up to buying a UL level 2 amp, but I don't think it makes economic sense at this point.
Honestly even level 2 is a hard sell with level 5 L amps being as cheap as they are. When you factor in both % net return and total gain / drop, UL level 2 is practically equivalent to a L 5 at 103% (or a net loss at 102%). That's just for my normal TT and targeted MU (mostly enmatter) though.

With those above numbers and buying an UL level 2 at 11k your drops to break even would be around 650k if you're targeting really decent MU areas. If you're just doing 1000 drops a week, that's still over 12 years to break even, 16-18 years for level 4-5, etc. It's not too tricky to put a spreadsheet together to figure out what price an UL amp is actually worth it. The price I bought my Terra 1 for fit the bill at the time for me, but prices for level 4+ grow exponentially to the point I decided not to bother and stick to limited amps. An UL level 5 at even 50k wouldn't even come out ahead of other options I have right now. I can think of scenarios where that could change and UL would be good insurance, but that depends entirely on possible changes MA might make.
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,124
Location
Michigan
Society
Apocalyptic
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Yes, for some reason it looks like people are willing to pay more markup on low ul amps for half markup on most of the resources that they get. Not to mention that I do believe that some of the rarest resources are capped for any amps used.

As for flexibility goes, you are more flexible with limited amps (now that they are cheap too) for any finder you like.

I was up to buying a UL level 2 amp, but I don't think it makes economic sense at this point.
imagine paying TT+18k for one.
 
Top