Question: MA's numbers vs 1M cycle summary

Idk, what I wanted to say is that sometimes my return changes is not at all proportional to my improves / downgrades of my item stats. The main weapon is still the unique blade and arso 4, aimk2 is a tagger thus :)
I actually think that DPP matters more than the eco stat. For instance your imk2 ancient is now rated number 29th best weapon on the entropia wiki list based on DPP (sorted for all weapons by DPP).
 
Idk, what I wanted to say is that sometimes my return changes is not at all proportional to my improves / downgrades of my item stats. The main weapon is still the unique blade and arso 4, aimk2 is a tagger thus :)

Well you cant go wrong with that unique blade at 3.509 DPP I guess, so good luck out there.

I'm off hunting.


Rick
 
MA statement about avg returns are very old and also predates looter professions introduction. I had 96%TT consistently after 2.0 release and before looter professions. My problems started around one month after looter addition. My average dropped to 93% with exactly same setup and same mob - and I'm consistently at 93% ever since. So either looter prof decreased avg returns or MA tuned global avg returns (as somebody already suggested) or I have one year long bad return period :laugh:

EIther way would be great for MA to post quarterly averages.
 
MA statement about avg returns are very old and also predates looter professions introduction. I had 96%TT consistently after 2.0 release and before looter professions. My problems started around one month after looter addition. My average dropped to 93% with exactly same setup and same mob - and I'm consistently at 93% ever since. So either looter prof decreased avg returns or MA tuned global avg returns (as somebody already suggested) or I have one year long bad return period :laugh:

EIther way would be great for MA to post quarterly averages.

Oh, I wasn't around when loot 2.0 and looter professions were introduced. Had no clue that these two was introduced separately. If MA's statement was between these two, then it makes sense, finally.

Without looter level nerf my NET return would have been 98.15% which matches perfetcly to their statement :yay:
 
Oh, I wasn't around when loot 2.0 and looter professions were introduced. Had no clue that these two was introduced separately. If MA's statement was between these two, then it makes sense, finally.

Without looter level nerf my NET return would have been 98.15% which matches perfetcly to their statement :yay:

I feel relieved now.So this is a confirmation that Official notes from Mindark are accurate.
Thanks man !
 
Confused by all the irrelevant mentions of markup.

tt looted / tt spent

What is that number?
 
Confused by all the irrelevant mentions of markup.

tt looted / tt spent

What is that number?

968,629 tt looted / 1,025,655 tt spent
 
"Efficiency: 55% Looter level: 47"

I don't know what are you smoking but you have a lot of guts to shoot 1 mil peds with that :)
I wouldn't unless I could obtain something at the end of it.
GL


"I wouldn't use low efficiency weapons unless I could obtain something at the end of it"

Hi :)

so the strategy to use low efficiency weapons can be a smart way to get better rewards at events like the FEN/Mayhems ?

In another thread about Volatility, some players have compared volatile hunting to Full Condition crafting :
well, by saying that they meant it ONLY as a severe warning for other players/e.g. "stay away from volatile hunting otherwise you will ruin yourself" ,

100% wise and true, but maybe(?) in FEN/Mayhem like events this apparently contrarian strategy becomes rewarding (ONLY IF paired with a gigantic effort of ped spent/'invested' : otherwise a financial loss is guaranteed against someone who has spent/'invested' much more than you, and will win by being better placed in a supposed/hypothetical/implicit "event/lottery chart", while you will just lose) ?


Paul



UPDATE :
As someone pointed out to me, Messi during events streams live on Twitch, and during his streamings he actually uses high efficiency weapons :
therefore my "existential" doubts on high efficiency weapons, expressed above in this post, are fully solved.

Paul
 
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"I wouldn't use low efficiency weapons unless I could obtain something at the end of it"

Hi :)

so the strategy to use low efficiency weapons can be a smart way to get better rewards at events like the FEN/Mayhems ?
This is not what he said. You have the logic backwards. A possible reward makes it worth risking higher losses, not higher losses bring about a better reward.
 
efficiency: 55%
looter level: 47 (current)
cycled: slightly over 1M
NET tt return: 94.44% (this is with all used/received MU excluded)

efficiency: ~64%
looter level: 15-19
cycled: 74k PED (about 40-50k kills)
net tt return: 93,12%
 
Allarom, what you're missing is that the turnover is an aproximation. They explained a bit, but can't look for it now, check the Dev notes talking about loot 2.0 (iirc, Dev 10, 11 and 12).

That is, "turnover" in effect means number of kills. They chose that number in peds because somehow encompasses the medium-high echelon of the players, but is a combination of factors.

My primary guess is that the lvl of the mob is too big for your setup/efficiency/something. It is hard to put in words and is even harder to read, I would guess. If I would be at that tt return, I would re-analyze what I am doing.

If you're at 55% eff, I would guess you're using some UL. The problem is that you still have MU spent so I would guess is enhancers. The problem of enhancers is that they create only damage, not tt expense (not linear, that is). It would be an ample discussion about their opportunity and I am not the most qualified to carry it.

In other words, to use the example they gave, you could reach this turnover with (let's say) 50 proteron stalker per day or with 2000 argo young per day. The second case, at same ped spent, would have a higher chance of reaching 97-98% tt.

I don't think 55% eff is inherently bad, but it depends on some factors which we simply don't know but can try to guess. And from this guessing we're all building strategies, which have the main fault of being validated or not only after spending, and even then one is left wondering wether it was chance. But at this turnover can't be purely chance, you have some systemic fault in your playstyle which may or may not be reimbursed. And then we're back to guessing.

I don't believe that looter profession works as an universal factor, but on a mob basis, somehow comparable with the evader profession.
 
I don't think 55% eff is inherently bad

No its not bad, its very bad and you are right.
If you want lower efficiency to play with you have to make efforts to find rare useless items :)
 
If you're at 55% eff, I would guess you're using some UL.

Even 60 is bad, when I compare my returns using my UL vs Armatrix L, it is fairly obvious that it is bad.
 
Allarom, what you're missing is that the turnover is an aproximation. They explained a bit, but can't look for it now, check the Dev notes talking about loot 2.0 (iirc, Dev 10, 11 and 12).

That is, "turnover" in effect means number of kills. They chose that number in peds because somehow encompasses the medium-high echelon of the players, but is a combination of factors.

My primary guess is that the lvl of the mob is too big for your setup/efficiency/something. It is hard to put in words and is even harder to read, I would guess. If I would be at that tt return, I would re-analyze what I am doing.

If you're at 55% eff, I would guess you're using some UL. The problem is that you still have MU spent so I would guess is enhancers. The problem of enhancers is that they create only damage, not tt expense (not linear, that is). It would be an ample discussion about their opportunity and I am not the most qualified to carry it.

In other words, to use the example they gave, you could reach this turnover with (let's say) 50 proteron stalker per day or with 2000 argo young per day. The second case, at same ped spent, would have a higher chance of reaching 97-98% tt.

I don't think 55% eff is inherently bad, but it depends on some factors which we simply don't know but can try to guess. And from this guessing we're all building strategies, which have the main fault of being validated or not only after spending, and even then one is left wondering wether it was chance. But at this turnover can't be purely chance, you have some systemic fault in your playstyle which may or may not be reimbursed. And then we're back to guessing.

I don't believe that looter profession works as an universal factor, but on a mob basis, somehow comparable with the evader profession.

With 1M cycle i don't need that argo vs prot example :D Only problem i had was huge difference between MA's statement and my return. I got an answer to my question and now all the numbers makes sense. I literally have better return than 55% efficiency should have (with my looter level). Thanks to these statistics and some cool folks who shared their results I felt encouraged enough and moved up to 80% efficiency
 
Even 60 is bad, when I compare my returns using my UL vs Armatrix L, it is fairly obvious that it is bad.

About higher level armatrixes... MU makes it worse than 40% efficiency UL
 
Thanks to these statistics and some cool folks who shared their results I felt encouraged enough and moved up to 80% efficiency

I hope you didn't had to sacrifice a lot of DPS there, otherwise that "upgrade" to 80% efficiency may have been a downgrade in regards to loot composition, when you're hunting a mob with quite some health regen ^^
 
I hope you didn't had to sacrifice a lot of DPS there, otherwise that "upgrade" to 80% efficiency may have been a downgrade in regards to loot composition, when you're hunting a mob with quite some health regen ^^

base dps is slightly higher, but -10 tiers. Future will show if it’s worth tiering or not
 
My numbers are in the same ballpark. 94 % tt return, mostly 67 eff., 28-30 looter.

My +12 efficiency (~ +0.8 % more tt return) looks to make up for the 16 lower looter levels of OP. (Not sure what 16 looter levels give in increased returns, I'd say 0.3-0.4 % per 10 levels at the most.)

Data: 40k mobs (1 ped cost each) killed. I know my ped cycle is far off 1M, but in terms of mobs killed I think I'm converging close enough to my average return.


Just a reminder for everyone sharing data: All taxed hunting must be excluded from the data (lest you calculate the paid tax into the tt return).

ALso, I did use X pills for a long while, but I have omitted them from tt in, because I am pretty sure they do NOT add to tt return (even though Captain Jack seems to think so - mentioned in some other thread).
 
My numbers are in the same ballpark. 94 % tt return, mostly 67 eff., 28-30 looter.

My +12 efficiency (~ +0.8 % more tt return) looks to make up for the 16 lower looter levels of OP. (Not sure what 16 looter levels give in increased returns, I'd say 0.3-0.4 % per 10 levels at the most.)

Data: 40k mobs (1 ped cost each) killed. I know my ped cycle is far off 1M, but in terms of mobs killed I think I'm converging close enough to my average return.


Just a reminder for everyone sharing data: All taxed hunting must be excluded from the data (lest you calculate the paid tax into the tt return).

ALso, I did use X pills for a long while, but I have omitted them from tt in, because I am pretty sure they do NOT add to tt return (even though Captain Jack seems to think so - mentioned in some other thread).

Based on my tests (and many others), it's 0.07% tt return per looter level that is not affected by mob level. I've heard also that pills goes to return, but i disagree to believe it unless somebody points out official MA's statement
 
My +12 efficiency (~ +0.8 % more tt return) looks to make up for the 16 lower looter levels of OP. (Not sure what 16 looter levels give in increased returns, I'd say 0.3-0.4 % per 10 levels at the most.)

Based on my tests (and many others), it's 0.07% tt return per looter level that is not affected by mob level.

Well, SIB guns, mining finders and BPs go by recommended level +5 to be maxed. non-sib is different story.
So what's the level of the mob? Maybe they go with:
mob level +5 = "maxed" looter profession
 
Based on my tests (and many others), it's 0.07% tt return per looter level that is not affected by mob level. I've heard also that pills goes to return, but i disagree to believe it unless somebody points out official MA's statement

I know I am deviating from your original post now, but regarding the return from looter profession:

If I had a 100 eff. weapon and L100 Looter, I would get 7+7 % = 14 % higher loot vs. base (i.e. new player hunting with a 0 eff., 0 level looter) ? In practical terms I'd get 99 % tt return (theoretical max) vs. 85 % (base line) of the n00b?

If so, then my current return of 94 % is too high. Let's say I used a 70 eff. gun and L30 looter. My return would then be 85 (baseline) + 4.9 (70/100*7 %) + 2.1 (30/100*7) % = 92 %.

Imho, I think the base line is higher, and the looter profession contributes less (unless MA has stated otherwise somewhere).
 
Imho, I think the base line is higher, and the looter profession contributes less (unless MA has stated otherwise somewhere).

from what i've seen, MA sometimes makes changes without announcing them, take old VU notes with a grain of salt.
 
I know I am deviating from your original post now, but regarding the return from looter profession:

If I had a 100 eff. weapon and L100 Looter, I would get 7+7 % = 14 % higher loot vs. base (i.e. new player hunting with a 0 eff., 0 level looter) ? In practical terms I'd get 99 % tt return (theoretical max) vs. 85 % (base line) of the n00b?

If so, then my current return of 94 % is too high. Let's say I used a 70 eff. gun and L30 looter. My return would then be 85 (baseline) + 4.9 (70/100*7 %) + 2.1 (30/100*7) % = 92 %.

Imho, I think the base line is higher, and the looter profession contributes less (unless MA has stated otherwise somewhere).

Base must be higher than 85%. if i take away looter level (0,07% per level) and efficiency (0,07% per eff.) from my 94.44% return, i get 87.3% as a base return. So with your 30 looter and 67 efficiency, it should add +6.79% to base and makes total of 94.04% tt return. This is exactly what you stated earlier.
 
Maybe they go with:
mob level +5 = "maxed" looter profession

No it's linear (at least in the lower levels ~60, who knows about diminishing returns at higher levels, though I assume that has to be a thing....or just a lv100 hard cap) . There have been tests of users who are using the exact same gun, but 10 looter levels apart, and a control member in team. Player 1 shoots team mob/shared mob 10 times, player 2 shoots shared mob 10 times. Both have the exact same input to this mob based on eff since they use the exact same gun. Player 3 "control" then finishes the mob and players receive loot based on their input. Player with 10 looter levels high will always get 0.7% more TT in their returned loot. Was extensively tested by Darkaruki.
 
Base must be higher than 85%. if i take away looter level (0,07% per level) and efficiency (0,07% per eff.) from my 94.44% return, i get 87.3% as a base return. So with your 30 looter and 67 efficiency, it should add +6.79% to base and makes total of 94.04% tt return. This is exactly what you stated earlier.


Don't forget, MA's numbers are averages. So over 5000 (or whatever it is) players, the loot will be distributed as they described. But individually, even accounting for large turnover this will differ greatly per player. To even suggest a base is meaningless - what turnover is required? how many players is required? What timeline is required? The only people who know are MA. You could statistically get close-ish, but only if you account for several hundred players cycling a shit load of peds over a long time period. But as a one off from your result, it is meaningless.

Rgds

Ace
 
No it's linear (at least in the lower levels ~60, who knows about diminishing returns at higher levels, though I assume that has to be a thing....or just a lv100 hard cap) . There have been tests of users who are using the exact same gun, but 10 looter levels apart, and a control member in team. Player 1 shoots team mob/shared mob 10 times, player 2 shoots shared mob 10 times. Both have the exact same input to this mob based on eff since they use the exact same gun. Player 3 "control" then finishes the mob and players receive loot based on their input. Player with 10 looter levels high will always get 0.7% more TT in their returned loot. Was extensively tested by Darkaruki.

Oh ok, must have missed that one, can only vaguely remember the team hunting thread. Could you provide a link pls?
 
Okay, but 87.3% + 14% is higher than 100%.

+14% is rather impossible. As they stated before looter profession that 50k+ cyclers average was 98.6%, most likely it was somewhere around 60% average efficiency. They saw that 90% efficiency was able to tt profit and added looter level. Who knows what they will change next if somebody is close to reach lvl 100 looter and able to tt profit :D
 
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