Maybe not a theory, but some thoughts...

Joat

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I've seen a lot of complaints that loot is terrible, even thou' people have
used the way most eco combs in gear and mobs.

I guess you can compare EU with a engine.
With a too thin mixture of fuel and air, you will not get most HP from it.
A too fat mixture, will only cost more, and also keep the engine running
at a unefficient level.
But if you manage to find the perfect mixture, you will have a engine
that are very efficient. :)
But a mixture in one environment doesn't mean it will fit in all environments.
In EU your mixture and environments are gear, mobs and areas.

Why should a eco comb pay out most?
If YOU have a business, would YOU give a customer a better service the
cheaper they are? ;)
So, imo, it isn't a question about being eco, it's about being balanced
in your "interaction with objects"... ;)
 
I remember ready a long analysis on loot on these forums.

Seems it was pretty conclusive that the amount of loot you receive is directly related to how much damage you cause a mob.

The test was something like a big ass high regen mob was killed with a big gun and then with a pea shooter. Since it took more time to kill the mob with the pea shooter, the mob regenerated much more than against the big gun. So More damage was caused to the individual mob with the pea shooter. And when killed with the peashooter, it resulted in higher loot.

Playing eco was not a factor in determining loot.
 
Eco just gives a player extra tickets to the loot lottery.
 
I remember ready a long analysis on loot on these forums.

Seems it was pretty conclusive that the amount of loot you receive is directly related to how much damage you cause a mob.

The test was something like a big ass high regen mob was killed with a big gun and then with a pea shooter. Since it took more time to kill the mob with the pea shooter, the mob regenerated much more than against the big gun. So More damage was caused to the individual mob with the pea shooter. And when killed with the peashooter, it resulted in higher loot.

Playing eco was not a factor in determining loot.

It could just as well ended up in a no loot too. ;)

No test is reliable unless you manage to go thru' a whole cycle.
And a full cycle could mean months... ;)

Imo, I think people look at EU a bit wrong when they look at damage
vs loot.
Every interaction is linear in cost, what differs is the hp-reduction.
A MISS has same cost as a hit, only difference is that it has a
zero in hp-reduction.
It's these interactions that needs to be balanced, what damage it
does doesn't matter imo.
 
here is some thoughts...
Maybe MA should just put some damn loot in creatures... or make this game worth playing again...
 
It could just as well ended up in a no loot too. ;)

No test is reliable unless you manage to go thru' a whole cycle.
And a full cycle could mean months... ;)

Imo, I think people look at EU a bit wrong when they look at damage
vs loot.
Every interaction is linear in cost, what differs is the hp-reduction.
A MISS has same cost as a hit, only difference is that it has a
zero in hp-reduction.
It's these interactions that needs to be balanced, what damage it
does doesn't matter imo.

It was a big test as I recall. It wasn't just killing one mob! I wish I could find it...:mad:

The point was I think that defensive costs didn't factor into how much loot you got...
 
here is some thoughts...
Maybe MA should just put some damn loot in creatures... or make this game worth playing again...

today was just another one of those days

seems every day that comes to a close...
there is always hope for tomorrow...
but tomorrow is just another shitty day...
and if i didnt play the day before i would be much better off...
false hope :( thats what we survive on...


always tomorrow entropians... always tomorrow

theoretically this makes us all insane...
Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
 
here is some thoughts...
Maybe MA should just put some damn loot in creatures... or make this game worth playing again...

loot its fine dude, just worst and worst markup
 
loot its fine dude, just worst and worst markup

yea it is super cool going out with 2k peds coming back with 700-1000!!! sweet!
unless mark up is 200%... this loot is not fine

I cant imagin how we trick ourselves into thinking 30-50% returns are "fine"
 
yea it is super cool going out with 2k peds coming back with 700-1000!!! sweet!
unless mark up is 200%... this loot is not fine

I cant imagin how we trick ourselves into thinking 30-50% returns are "fine"

i know u use maxed gun also so how u get under 50% return(i never go under 50%)? u include tax on land, enhs, fap all ?
 
i know u use maxed gun also so how u get under 50% return(i never go under 50%)? u include tax on land, enhs, fap all ?

no fap... no enhancers... no armour decay....


just peds out on blade... peds in from blade...
I even moved around the last 700 peds...
2000 peds cycled with 1 global = less then 50% returns

if I dont get 3-7 globals an hour I lose peds...

650 globals since my last 1k+ pedder...
 
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Maybe, they should make loot skill based.

Give better returns to those with higher skills, who have invested time into this game?

Instead of ripping them off :)

Edit: Gives people like myself with lower skils, hope for the future instead of nothing really. Other than wishing for a big hof so I can move up and hunt bigger for a few hours...:p
 
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no fap... no enhancers... no armour decay....


just peds out on blade... peds in from blade...
I even moved around the last 700 peds...
2000 peds cycled with 1 global = less then 50% returns

if I dont get 3-7 globals an hour I lose peds...

650 globals since my last 1k+ pedder...

Maybe this "engine" has wrong "mixture", ever thought of that?
Are you realy sure that blade is the most efficient one
for the best return? ;)
I know one setup works pretty good against bigger Atrox
(when everything is normal that is) and I know one that is
way worse... the difference between those two are 3 damage
enhancers... :)
 
I've seen a lot of complaints that loot is terrible, even thou' people have
used the way most eco combs in gear and mobs.

I guess you can compare EU with a engine.
With a too thin mixture of fuel and air, you will not get most HP from it.
A too fat mixture, will only cost more, and also keep the engine running
at a unefficient level.
But if you manage to find the perfect mixture, you will have a engine
that are very efficient. :)
But a mixture in one environment doesn't mean it will fit in all environments.
In EU your mixture and environments are gear, mobs and areas.

Why should a eco comb pay out most?
If YOU have a business, would YOU give a customer a better service the
cheaper they are? ;)
So, imo, it isn't a question about being eco, it's about being balanced
in your "interaction with objects"... ;)

I fully support this theory. I've tried hunting with maxed out SIB weapon and with non maxed old school weapon. Only difference I notice is that I obviously hit better with the maxed weapon. But when it comes to return I get the same old average that I have always had. Now days I use a mix of maxed sib rifle together with a non maxed old school delta blp gun and it works fine.
 
A MISS has same cost as a hit, only difference is that it has a
zero in hp-reduction.

.

So,if u get many MISS, it indicate the area and mob is not good? then change area or mob?
 
I've seen a lot of complaints that loot is terrible, even thou' people have
used the way most eco combs in gear and mobs.

I guess you can compare EU with a engine.
With a too thin mixture of fuel and air, you will not get most HP from it.
A too fat mixture, will only cost more, and also keep the engine running
at a unefficient level.
But if you manage to find the perfect mixture, you will have a engine
that are very efficient. :)
But a mixture in one environment doesn't mean it will fit in all environments.
In EU your mixture and environments are gear, mobs and areas.

Why should a eco comb pay out most?
If YOU have a business, would YOU give a customer a better service the
cheaper they are? ;)
So, imo, it isn't a question about being eco, it's about being balanced
in your "interaction with objects"... ;)

I think your confused a bit here about eco and loot returns. Being eco doesn't increase the mobs loot drops all it does is decrease your decay to kill the mob to get that loot drop. Nothing you do by gun selection, armor used etc will make that mob drop more loot, that mob will drop that same amount of loot if you use an Opallo or a LR41 on that Daikiba for example, you just spend way more ammo consumption using one vs the other to kill that mob so the loot value return diffenence is less.

Balance guns and armors to mob's correctly you have better chance of coming out ahead in the long haul. Grinding for 30 min won't show much but grind for 10 hours using eco equipment means many many many peds more profit vs using un-eco equipment. Some people say don't use armor at all but I say bunk with that BS, fap decay is spendy vs decay on armor if you use the correct armors. I have tracked this many many times and will not deter from my bonified speadsheet results just because someone else says it is otherwise, I know myself it to be true.

Track your own results, only use others suggestions as a guidlines but always compile your own data for the truth.
 
today was just another one of those days

theoretically this makes us all insane...
Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

I cant imagin how we trick ourselves into thinking 30-50% returns are "fine"

There's an answer in there somewhere ;P
 
I think your confused a bit here about eco and loot returns. Being eco doesn't increase the mobs loot drops all it does is decrease your decay to kill the mob to get that loot drop. Nothing you do by gun selection, armor used etc will make that mob drop more loot, that mob will drop that same amount of loot if you use an Opallo or a LR41 on that Daikiba for example, you just spend way more ammo consumption using one vs the other to kill that mob so the loot value return diffenence is less.

Balance guns and armors to mob's correctly you have better chance of coming out ahead in the long haul. Grinding for 30 min won't show much but grind for 10 hours using eco equipment means many many many peds more profit vs using un-eco equipment. Some people say don't use armor at all but I say bunk with that BS, fap decay is spendy vs decay on armor if you use the correct armors. I have tracked this many many times and will not deter from my bonified speadsheet results just because someone else says it is otherwise, I know myself it to be true.

Track your own results, only use others suggestions as a guidlines but always compile your own data for the truth.
Well, I'm not confused about eco, but I do see that post was a bit unclear.
The first comment about people using the most eco is a bit sarcastic, even
thou' that doesn't show. ;) Some do think that being eco is same as having good loot.

Here is the problem with EU imo. You have probably, just as I have, done tons of tests
with a LOT of different setups, and you came to the conclusion that loot is same.
I haven't seen that at all, when I've done tests. Might be good to do some again,
since it's been a while since my last serious test with mkV. As a example thou', I did see a
difference in loot between two setups, that are close to each other, other than the decay.
I didn't get same drop with mkV+eamp13 as I did with mkV+a203. They have same amount
of max damage, but a difference in total cost. I usualy got worse ROI with eamp13, but
way better things in drop. I did get enhancers with eamp I never got with a203.
I did my first more serious test around 2004, and even thou' the system is updated,
basics is still the same imo. It has just been polished. :)

Today, I only use eamps, if I use a amp. ROI today is better then what it used to be.
Way better. I also try to finetuning with different enhancers. It often works, even
thou' it might take a while to find that "right comb" out.
But on some mobs, no matter what setup I have on mkV, loot just isn't good.
Other type of weapons work thou'. I use any kind of weapon, such as rifle, handgun,
shortblade, longblade and so on. I don't look at them as different types thou',
I look at them all as same thing, they just have different settings. ;)

A test I do have done just recently (apr-dec2011), is with certain shortblades. I do have
better ROI when I have damage-enhancer on t1, t2 and t3, then when I use none.

I agree, look at others suggestions and info, but we should all do our own tests.
No avatar is the same. All do different things, so everyones experience is different.
When it comes to decay, people should stop see it as a total loss. It's only a part
of it, that is revenue stream.
Using armor or not, well, I guess that depends on the mob. Against most mobs I do use
armor, but on some there is no need for either armor or heal.

So,if u get many MISS, it indicate the area and mob is not good? then change area or mob?

A MISS is a part of the cycle. Somedays I get more of those, somedays they are less.
Average ROI is often the same, even thou' some runs with a LOT of MISS has been realy good.
(My last +1k loot were in one of those runs.)
Something makes them pop up more frequently at certain occasions.
The queston is, why do they pop up at those occasions? ;)
 
Question is: is it possible that previous results affect following ones? If answer is yes then with some research you will be able to wait for moment X to swap your gear for something that allows higher bets and hitting a winstreak. If not then it still might be possible to predict results using other tells.
 
i managed to get long term profit.

this was working before the missions came along... havent tried it since.

Buy as many korss400 mod or imp as u can ge your hands on.
buy the best amps (2 x amp) you can affod to put on it.
make sure u have 10k peds oon your account.

hunt for a minimum of 8h / day preferably nonstop 8h.

i dont think the eco matter that much tho... would probably have worked with a lr41 to

even worked on baby trox.

happy hunting
 
i managed to get long term profit.

this was working before the missions came along... havent tried it since.

Buy as many korss400 mod or imp as u can ge your hands on.
buy the best amps (2 x amp) you can affod to put on it.
make sure u have 10k peds oon your account.

hunt for a minimum of 8h / day preferably nonstop 8h.

i dont think the eco matter that much tho... would probably have worked with a lr41 to

even worked on baby trox.

happy hunting

Yep, big cycle per day often works, unless you hit that part of a cycle
where loot ditch no matter what, but that isn't within "normal" ROI imo. ;)
I used mkV+eamp13 and enhancers too on my Atrox 5k (well last 50% or so, MF
mostly in beginning) and 10k, and I didn't lose much on that luckily. :)
One run cost me around 500ped, and I did approx 8-10 runs per day on the
weekends, 1-3runs on the weekdays. Most extreme were a saturday with 16runs,
but that will *never* happen again... :D
 
Today, I only use eamps, if I use a amp. ROI today is better then what it used to be.
Way better. I also try to finetuning with different enhancers. It often works, even
thou' it might take a while to find that "right comb" out.
But on some mobs, no matter what setup I have on mkV, loot just isn't good.
Other type of weapons work thou'. I use any kind of weapon, such as rifle, handgun,
shortblade, longblade and so on. I don't look at them as different types thou',
I look at them all as same thing, they just have different settings. ;)

Let me see if I completely understand then I can go run some tests, because I actually like to grind numbers for some stupid reason, probably because I am crazy.

So lets pick a mob say Oro (going to be working on them shortly with disciples anyways) in this example. I'll have him hunt the small while I'll test on the large ones. I'll use two setups, one geared towards eco hunting the other for un-eco hunting. eco setup: Adjusted Pixie with no plates, CAP-202, hotfoot5, Headshot1 and Bulleye1 and FAP-50 vs un-eco setup: Ghost with no plates, A3-Justifier MkII, E-AMP 12 Headshot1 and Bullseye1 and FAP-50 heal tool. Used same fap for both being I usually don't FAP much hunting Oro either way. So using these two setups your saying I will get higher loot drops using the un-eco setup form mobs because I am cycling more ped into the system to kill those same mobs? I have run similar tests on other mobs and have found that mobs generally drop the same amount of loot over same amount of mobs hunted no matter what you use to hunt them unless you are lucky enough to Global/HoF. If this is what your saying I'll run 4 runs using each setup and kill 500 mobs each time and track loot return vs decay. Pretty sure loot return will be pretty close to the same but one setup will burn more decay then the other. It has been about 8 months since I ran this test to try to figure out the effects of weapons/armor against mobs but pretty sure it hasn't changed.

I'll post results of my findings here. I'll indicate if I get a global/HoF as well but I never global hunting Oro's so that's why I picked this mob.

PS if you think setups should be different let me know I'll see what I can do to get good setups for this test.
 
So using these two setups your saying I will get higher loot drops using the un-eco setup form mobs because I am cycling more ped into the system to kill those same mobs?

Mikeemoo already tested it.
 
Mikeemoo already tested it.

here is the test result:

Blue: E-Amp15, and Red: A101

For now concentrating on base loot (under 10 ped) until I have a lot more data.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...NvdEZIRVN5WTJqTDdTUjRHa2hoWUhxTGc&output=html

molisk_loot_test_283886.gif


Code:
            [B]Average Weapon Cost[/B]    [B]Average Loot[/B]
[B]A101[/B]            0.778            0.3723
[B]E-Amp 15[/B]        2.225            0.8561
 
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Mikeemoo already tested it.

And the result?

Still would run my test because I want to see the difference personally because I have did this months ago and pretty sure 500 mob kills of same type give about same amount of loot eco or un-eco you just pay more in decay if un-eco.

Edit: OK chart was not up when I posted this.
 
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Let me see if I completely understand then I can go run some tests, because I actually like to grind numbers for some stupid reason, probably because I am crazy.

So lets pick a mob say Oro (going to be working on them shortly with disciples anyways) in this example. I'll have him hunt the small while I'll test on the large ones. I'll use two setups, one geared towards eco hunting the other for un-eco hunting. eco setup: Adjusted Pixie with no plates, CAP-202, hotfoot5, Headshot1 and Bulleye1 and FAP-50 vs un-eco setup: Ghost with no plates, A3-Justifier MkII, E-AMP 12 Headshot1 and Bullseye1 and FAP-50 heal tool. Used same fap for both being I usually don't FAP much hunting Oro either way. So using these two setups your saying I will get higher loot drops using the un-eco setup form mobs because I am cycling more ped into the system to kill those same mobs? I have run similar tests on other mobs and have found that mobs generally drop the same amount of loot over same amount of mobs hunted no matter what you use to hunt them unless you are lucky enough to Global/HoF. If this is what your saying I'll run 4 runs using each setup and kill 500 mobs each time and track loot return vs decay. Pretty sure loot return will be pretty close to the same but one setup will burn more decay then the other. It has been about 8 months since I ran this test to try to figure out the effects of weapons/armor against mobs but pretty sure it hasn't changed.

I'll post results of my findings here. I'll indicate if I get a global/HoF as well but I never global hunting Oro's so that's why I picked this mob.

PS if you think setups should be different let me know I'll see what I can do to get good setups for this test.

Well, I hadn't used CAP202 vs mkII, since they are not close to each other in stats,
but on the other hand, why not? :)
Could be interesting to see where you end up.
Remember the test I did with mkV+eamp13 vs. mkV+a203, they both do exact same amount
of total damage (a difference in type of damage thou'), same reload and so on.
There is a difference in tt too, so not same amount of shots done in a full eamp13
vs. a full a203. (I always run my amps from 100% down to they are broke.)

In one test I did, I used Adj2722 vs AdjHero, both with same type of amp.
Looking to charts, the AdjHero should have been better, but Adj2722
gave better return.
In another test, same setup, different mob, and the result were the oposite. :)
These are old tests thou', but again, I think basics in the system still are the
same, but it's polished "some". ;)

Good luck with test, I hope you do the "unusual" and global on those. ;) :)
 
Well, I hadn't used CAP202 vs mkII, since they are not close to each other in stats,
but on the other hand, why not? :)
Could be interesting to see where you end up.
Remember the test I did with mkV+eamp13 vs. mkV+a203, they both do exact same amount
of total damage (a difference in type of damage thou'), same reload and so on.
There is a difference in tt too, so not same amount of shots done in a full eamp13
vs. a full a203. (I always run my amps from 100% down to they are broke.)

In one test I did, I used Adj2722 vs AdjHero, both with same type of amp.
Looking to charts, the AdjHero should have been better, but Adj2722
gave better return.
In another test, same setup, different mob, and the result were the oposite. :)
These are old tests thou', but again, I think basics in the system still are the
same, but it's polished "some". ;)

Good luck with test, I hope you do the "unusual" and global on those. ;) :)

ok, my test will be based on mob kill number instead ped in and out. I see a lot of results but the tests seem to kill only 1/2 the mobs as the other half of the test so you only get 1/2 the mob loot sample size. shouldn't the sample size have to be the same to prove if mobs drop amount changes based on decay? You could have gotten on a lucky streak on that second 1/2 of the one sample side using that one amp which that other amp tested never had a chance to test against, I am sure there is a lot of randomness as well involved.

500 mobs killed no matter what it costs will show if eco or un-eco effect the amount of loot dropped by mobs. I am working on finishing my 12k mission anyways so why not run a test.

PS also are we just testing amp loot return effectivness or the whole eco/un-eco theory here? I can use a E-Amp 12 and a Hotfoot 10 both do 10 damage but E-AMP has much higher decay value.
 
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