Suggestion: Mechanism to stop macros / bots in Instances (Mayhem)

Do you really believe they are now going to change anything when it benefits them? 🙂
I have faith in Mindark's integrity. It's a small team and it is to be expected it will take them time to notice and fix things.

With UE5 around the corner, it is essential for a real cash economy game to have a spotless record on ethics and integrity.

Turning a blind eye to botting and macros is short term thinking which could hamper the game massively when UE5 is launched.

The People Make Games review with 1.5 million views,


When UE5-Entropia is reviewed by a similar high profile content creator, we don't want them fixating on the macros and bots ingame, like the above video appeared to when it came to gambling.

Time to clean up before UE5 is released. Think long term and not short term revenue which can harm the brand.
 
Last edited:
It's skill based...
lets drop the 15th no resource probe....
 
Implemented broadly across the board, this might be a bit too burdensome to impose on ordinary gameplay. However, it might be the start of an interesting idea. Here is my proposal:

  • Remove the rule against kill stealing.
  • If Player A has put a few shots into a non-Shared-Loot mob and Player B attacks it, Player A gets a puzzle (that is difficult for bots to solve). If Player A completes the puzzle, then he or she claims the mob, and is entitled to its loot even if Player B deals the most damage to it. If Player A does not complete the puzzle, then the loot goes to the player who deals the most damage to the mob, as usual.
  • Move Mayhem and other important events out of instances and back onto Calypso, as they once were, creating new land mass as needed for the spawns. If desired, allow other planet partners to spawn event mobs on their planets as well, to make choice of terrain part of one's event strategy.

This should produce the following effects, both in and out of Mayhem:

  • It becomes extremely profitable to repeatedly kill steal an unattended bot, but extremely expensive to do to a human player.
  • The human player being kill stolen gets heavily compensated for the inconvenience via free damage, and probably achieves TT profit as a result.
  • In practice, being skill stolen as a human would likely be at least as rare as being killed while hunting in non-lootable PVP, due to the steep cost to the kill stealer.
  • The unattended bot is at great risk of losing a fortune, providing incentive not to bot, or at least to be very attentive to the bot and not run it 24/7.

I don't claim that this is a complete solution, but it might help without much collateral damage.

Great write up and a great idea.

I would go a step further and make it so that certain parts of a mob give a higher chance to hit towards the top end of the damage scale of your weapon. For instance, head shots could do more damage than a hitting a creature in the shins.

This would allow those who are manually aiming to gain an advantage (or make up the gap of the disadvantage) over those just mashing F and aiming at the center of the hitbox.

Ideas like these would nearly kill botting (or force someone to write a super complex one) and then it's human vs human in piloting your avatar.

If it forces high rollers to quit, will they be replaced by new players spending more or less?

Does this end up hurting MindArk's ability to pay their employees who are hard at work bringing us into 2022 with the Unreal Engine 5 migration?

What does the loss in revenue do to the Entropia Universe?

Do we have a plan to increase revenues before we turn off this stream (that MA is likely enjoying)?

I'm all for more interactive and immersive gameplay but unless we can fund the development of that we're all going to be stuck with what we have unless we find a way to bring in more participants.

I think, just like the current IRL markets, having some Market Makers who have invested enough capital to use High Frequency Trading Algos, akin to a keyboard macro for IRL trading is needed to prop up the platform we've all been enjoying.

This is not the right time to go down this path less we jeopardize our futures here.

Also:
 
MA changed the game so that it is easier to bot.

-instances
-autoloot
-lifesteal
-press F to interact

Do you really believe they are now going to change anything when it benefits them? 🙂

And interesting how these changes roughly correlate to the implementation of 'looter' skills. It's almost as if the shift from the loot 1.0 to loot 2.0 system shifted the game from a massive lottery style loot system to more of a personalized slot machine. Or closer to that direction. Search 'Slots' on Twitch, you won't regret it :ROFLMAO:
 
What gets me is that some things can take a tedious amount of time with little turnover or cost, such as generally the travel element, but also trying to mine unamped for more eco, for example. It's even worse if you just plan on riding loot waves for a couple of mins per hour or whatever.
"Making people play again", realtime, at the keyboard and with turnover, might be something for MA to consider moving on from here...
 
bring in 100k fresh players
bring loot to 99.75% return
and no one cares of these things.
game has worse problems
1. totally useless tailor, products simply do not sell
2. rocktropia living on the ashes of his glory
3. about 200 useless blueprints
4. player that would prefer shraps to huntloot because 1% of conversion is worth more than TT the "Filler"

who shoots afk pay for the servers... we need more ppl to cycle 1m per month
 
who shoots afk pay for the servers... we need more ppl to cycle 1m per month

But Mindark disagree as shown by another support case. It is their server costs and they don't want macros or bots.

index.php
 
Last edited:
isnt life just great?

(edited version)
 
Last edited:
and we wouldnt miss you. ppl pretend AFK macro hunting is not as bad as everyone makes them out to be but some other factors are not being revealed.. like what do players do with their time who use AFK macros to hunt for them?? do they then jump on another avatar and go mining?
bro if i had to solve a fucking capchta every 30 minutes to keep hunting i would blow my brains out after a week. literally worse than netflix asking me if i'm still watching.
 
bro if i had to solve a fucking capchta every 30 minutes to keep hunting i would blow my brains out after a week. literally worse than netflix asking me if i'm still watching.
I never suggested a CAPCHTA, far too time consuming, just a one click popup that would take a second to click, and would only be there to prove the player was at the machine during Instances. It would load after a random kill, and would be like clicking on a loot window to remove. But, I've been made aware by replies, including your own, there are better ways to combat macros and bots, so I have removed that suggestion from the OP. I will leave the design of the mechanism, or change of mechanics, up to Mindark.
 
Last edited:
I never suggested a CAPCHTA, far too time consuming, just a one click popup that would take a second to click, and would only be there to prove the player was at the machine during Instances. It would load after a random kill, and would be like clicking on a loot window to remove.
Still not a good system imo, game should be more designed for active players and less for afk hunters. MA says they dont want afk hunting yet provide stuff like the auto target f button.
 
Still not a good system imo, game should be more designed for active players and less for afk hunters. MA says they dont want afk hunting yet provide stuff like the auto target f button.
That is why I removed the suggestion from the OP. It was a mistake on my part to include it.
 
I would be satisfied if LIVE ingame support could be used to just teleport a bot to a secluded island , after PMing the suspected bot and not receiving a response.

This would allow the game to continue for non bots , and allow bot players to collect their thoughts , knowing they are now noticed by MA.
 
I would be satisfied if LIVE ingame support could be used to just teleport a bot to a secluded island , after PMing the suspected bot and not receiving a response.

This would allow the game to continue for non bots , and allow bot players to collect their thoughts , knowing they are now noticed by MA.

Without belittling the work of online support, most of them do not have a sense of this detail.
I am a player and before accusing someone of being a bot, I follow his behavior much more than this worker would do.
But there are a lot cases that is just obviously, but they find it difficult to decide even at this point.
Its need a gaming spirit that makes responsible decisions... so I don't think it will be easy for online support.
 
Npc comes to me and says
"Hey Mike i am stuck in a question in Who want to be a millionaire. Can you help me ?" Asks an easy eu related question .

If i totally ignore the npc i get 10 points i. AFK skill,if i answer wrong i dont get any points and if answered correct i get to choose skill i want.

Later MA can do whatever they want to do people having thousands of points in afk.

Just a thought :)
 
Npc comes to me and says
"Hey Mike i am stuck in a question in Who want to be a millionaire. Can you help me ?" Asks an easy eu related question .

If i totally ignore the npc i get 10 points i. AFK skill,if i answer wrong i dont get any points and if answered correct i get to choose skill i want.

Later MA can do whatever they want to do people having thousands of points in afk.

Just a thought :)

I copy the English text most of the time to understand what is being written.
How many languages do you suggest these questions be in?
 
what about if i am just an asocial asshole that cares nothng of ppl messages?

bascially you are saying

it is not enought that the hours one can enjoy a game after putting 10k USD in it for some decent equip

shooting for an hourly cost of 3 to 10 dollar loss in TT terms,

he needs to be also harassed by puzzles, chitchatters, random teleports and more?
 
Let me suggest the obvious.

MA creates a Game Integrity Team. I know, I know... Mindblowing idea!!

Given the small playerbase, 3 guys could do a schedule all around the week and investigate data from avatars who are way above the averages, be it number of hours played, ROI. They have all data, it is not that hard to follow some metrics, create some triggers of possible cheating and have someone policing the playerbase.

It´s not like other real cash skill based games have a team like that because they want to. But because they NEED to in order to have their brand be respected and trusted!!


I don´t want to hurt any feelings, but these ideas are all absurd from the perspective of what this game is and needs.

The Game Integrity and Security is of the sole responsability of the developers and MA. And they need to step up their game if they want to take the next step.

In fact I read the 2014 fuckup and subsequent changes to loot 2.0 and capped returns as an admission of MA of not being able to keep the game safe from exploits and cheaters.

If we add to this the refusal of MA since then to any change that could re-activate the economy, it further proves the point they are not ready to take the next step and make Entropia a skill based RCE gaming platform. They cowerded in 2014 and didn´t get out of the hole again, confortable as they are milking the cows...

After almost 20 years of Entropia. Still no communication with playerbase and the playerbase has not a single player or group of players that acts as representative of the playerbase to MA.

There are reasons why I keep my investments as low as they are in Entropia. Having thousands of dollars stuck in game that clearly does not have a Game Integrity Team, who does not communicate with the playerbase and makes arbitrary changes that are hurtfull to the players and profitable to the company is not what I have as a good investment.

I do it for a bit of fun, chatting and challenge only at this point. When/if conditions change I might turn into an investor and a recruiter.
 
Great write up and a great idea.

I would go a step further and make it so that certain parts of a mob give a higher chance to hit towards the top end of the damage scale of your weapon. For instance, head shots could do more damage than a hitting a creature in the shins.


Good idea indeed, but it seems difficult to be implement.


1-Good-One.jpg
 
Remove solo instances.
Turn on PVP everywhere.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.

On a serious note. MA have actively taken steps to allow botting.

We are in a game which only a long grind pays off. Gear, items, skills and a new loot system that built so only a grind pays off.

What’s everyone’s excuse when you moan about TT return? Oh just cycle more….

One of the reasons (in my opinion) the community aspect to this game has faded.

This game use to have so many fun aspects and events and people now it’s just “tab, F”

Edit: again it is very easy to point the finger at who has caused this type of game play to evolve. But that’s all I’m gonna say on that….
 
Last edited:
Removing shared phasm spot would help a bit. Looks like one of most popular macro spots atm :)
 
Here's is my idea:

Forget for a moment about punishing bot/macro users, for two main reasons:
  1. You (MA) say you already do, which means you fail spectacularly at it.
  2. Most suggestions I've seen in this thread would impact regular players too.
(I'm not saying they should be allowed, just trying to be realistic here)

Instead, focus on rewarding active gameplay. You have already done this in one very special instance, Halloween Mayhem Survival:
Randomly placed pumpkins containing various buffs appear periodically throughout the arena; these pumpkins no longer have a chance of applying any debuffs.

They are already randomly placed, add something similar to all instances. I would even go one step further:
  1. Make the buffs a bit better so bots are at a clear disadvantage, but not so much that rings/pills have their value affected.
  2. Make it hard for a bot/macro to pick them up (maybe disable "F" key for them, I don't know... that's your job).
Unintended bonus:
- Who would be dumb enough to be at the keyboard, grinding the instance for hours and not pick a single buff up?

An easy way for MA to have a list of suspects, albeit not definitive proof. Hell, you could even make it so you are kicked out of instance if you dont pick a single buff for a certain amount of time... add it to the lore! call it vaccine or inhibitor or whatever... again, that's your job.

I'm sure it's not the perfect solution. Take this idea, think about it, refine it, improve it, TEST IT and release it. But do something !

Come on MA, @Ludvig|MindArk , @My|MindArk . We can fix this.
 
Last edited:
pfff
make a "polygon instance" with a choice of monster to kill
let player enter press F and automagically shot for hours generating as many events as he will
playfield levelled,
make another "bombing ground" you enter press F and drop a probe every 30 second and esxcavate it if successful

once that a "IDLE" game mode is created, no problem on the map for anyone

do you realize that this is the same as a Craft machine?
i see the only point to level the ground.

BTW the code for screen scanning for a specific "BUFF object" code and walk/click macro can be done in 10 minutes.
please read LOST ARK threads...

here there is another FALSE MYTH that shooting for 10 hours on a row leads to profit per se.
and all the threas is aroudn this.
it is the same as "this xxx weapon make me return 101% since forever" and i am a dumbass so i sell it...
but just for the money you will make in 1 year and i need to buy a fresh mercedes (NO; SORRY NO MONEY BACK GUARANTEE)

as the man entering the "Polygon" or "bombign ground" has loose anough, he will pray for more bots to pay for servers.
 
Isn't there a thing already built into many games to stop bots? I know very little about designing a game but do know when I tried to play another game recently it wouldn't let me till I turned off the software controlling the lights on my keyboard and gpu. Some sort of anti-cheat thingy.

That being said the amount of people who have trouble installing and opening the game, if something like that were added I presume it would cause even more issues!

Yes, the company Valve has VAC (Valve anti Cheat) and there are a couple others.
The thing is, it scans the memory for processes it knows are bot software and once you get caught you are lifetime banned, no refund.
Some would call it invasive and it doesn't catch most homebrew stuff. It is also hard to code. Hence, not really an option for MA at this point.
 
There is a guy streaming and he has no hands, so he plays with his feet.

He literally switch to tagger, aim mob manually, tags it, switch to sword and kill it.

All with his feet.

Shut the fuck up about how game is hard, ban bots today!
 
bro if i had to solve a fucking capchta every 30 minutes to keep hunting i would blow my brains out after a week. literally worse than netflix asking me if i'm still watching.
And are you? Im always sleeping when first netflix message pops :D
 
In almost every MMO, Macro / botting is not allowed, but also in all of the MMO, there is always people doing it.
The best way to address this issue is to discourage botters. This is easy to do. Just implement a more engaging gameplay mechanics. I have mentioned before. Make it so that we can kite mobs. Slow shots so we can kite. Stun and backstab, etc. Something that will engage the players. As it is right now, there is no engagement. It's endless work to manually catch and ban these people. But if you make it so that if you bot, your return will go down to less than 70% return, then it will discourage a lot of botters. I'm sure when it used to cost ammo and decay if you shot at nothing, there wasn't any botters. Just because it was too risky to use bots. Your bot might be pressing the attack button while there's no selected mobs. That was a big discouraging factor. I think botting only got worse when they made the change. But I wouldn't want ammo / decay cost to come back. I think adding more player engagement factors will help. It also makes this game more fun.
 
Regarding support answers, some of you are not familiar with public position vs private position?

MA Made a grind game and gave the players more and more tools for automating grinding. They made Mayhem even more grindy. What do you think their intent was?

Regardless, nothing is happening until after UE5.
 
Back
Top