FYI: MF combo attacks

[AL Killmore]

With MF chips largely available now, it's about time to explore the possibilities that they offer.

Standard damage chips now work as any other weapon. Kinda low on kick but that increases with the lvl as MA are introducing more powerful versions. While area chips and firestorm chips use cooldowns.

I was playing at the rig lately, trying 2-3 different chips in a row to see if there's any combo effect from the different cooldown groups. For my excitement - combos are indeed possible. Because of my limited arsenal the variety i tested wasn't great but this is what i have by far:

Area strike chip (like I electric) + normal dmg chip (like 1st gen electric or cryo or combustive L)

When you charge your area chip (4-5 seconds) you can run around looking for target/s and then unleash a good blast on it, switching almost immediately to the normal dmg chip adding another hit to the victim. Such double hits work pretty nice - versus mobs or other players With higher lvl chips this combo could be quite lethal, even against armored opponents.

I believe the combo could be used with Firestorm chip instead of area chip but don't have one at my disposal. A good firestorm followed by cryo VII blast sounds like a sweet pain dealer tho

 

[M Rufen Power]

*SMILES*

I had this idea quite a while ago, when I saw that for example a level 8 chip had a cooldown in group/lv 5 chip. So in theory you only had to find a chip/s which have cooldown in groups 5,4,3,2, & 1 to be able to attack 5 times without pausing. Seems like an awesome idea to exploit further, so +rep in any case for doing the thread like you did, & it will be funny to see ppl's MF combo's on video .

 

[Coop_]

*SMILES*

I had this idea quite a while ago, when I saw that for example a level 8 chip had a cooldown in group/lv 5 chip. So in theory you only had to find a chip/s which have cooldown in groups 5,4,3,2, & 1 to be able to attack 5 times without pausing. Seems like an awesome idea to exploit further, so +rep in any case for doing the thread like you did, & it will be funny to see ppl's MF combo's on video .

The multi-attack can only be a double-whammy, never 3 or more. Any chip that has a cooldown period also has a warmup phase, which you would have to go through after delivering the first hit from, say, a firestorm chip.

And any chip that can attack without a warmup/cooldown phase would have a reload--during which nothing else can be done.

 

[Immortal]

Now all you need to do is find an enemy at 58m range that will stay still for 5 seconds.

 

[Amenophis]

It would have been something if the cooldown actually existed just to allow chaining different cooldown group items. But as it seems to be, cooldown is another type of reload.
Just for the sake of argument ... say a group VI chip gets used . Then , according to the cooldown description text, no cooldown whatsoever can be applied upon switching to another group (I-V). However, you get stuck because of the reload ( tho that reload is already locking the use of item ). What if, instead of that , it would go like this :
use VI > switch instantly > charge V > use V > switch instantly > charge IV > use IV > switch instantly > charge III > use III > ... at this point , you could have done the following gross damage in 8 seconds on a combustive chain ( theoretical values ) : 150+ 120 + 90 + 60= 420, out of which you would subtract four times the target's protection in pvp. It's not a problem if you design the groups accordingly, even when considering starting the chain with higher damages ( say first gen VIII ). What happens in fact is that there has been no further development in this area after the release of the new MF flavor.

PS: in my opinion , MF should provide the ultimate pvp professions, as it should deal the highest burst dps, especially since it is allowed no tiering atm.

 

[AL Killmore]

Well, compared to the pre-VU10 situation when you have to wait full-time charge before usage, there's improvement. Also, the range of the firestorm chips is not changed so they can deliver blows from good distance. Field chips are way behind tho, so i guess their usability will be reduced to oil rig surprise attacks or mob tagging for less aggressive mobs. Imho, they compensate with solid damage and lower skill requirements.

And of course, the second hit is not necessary to be done with MF. Guns are usable too - enhanced carbine or plasma tagger - it's your call. Much like the old times.

edit: Amenophis,
I think you are confusing cooldown groups with chip levels. They are different things.

 

[Amenophis]

Well, compared to the pre-VU10 situation when you have to wait full-time charge before usage, there's improvement. Also, the range of the firestorm chips is not changed so they can deliver blows from good distance. .

It's interesting to see you once again stating this, when , in fact, the system in use nowadays is a complete nerf of the first gen combustive chips ( as it allows usage of them now ) while implementing some L skilling items with nothing to look up for on the long run. I will say this once more Killmore since an "improvement" for you is seemingly the opinion of a first gen combustive chip target rather than that of a user ... the charging time was the main reason those chips were used for, since it allowed a secondary instant attack. There's also another issue most avoid talking of. These chips delivered FULL burn attacks while the L's have mixed damage.

Field chips are way behind tho, so i guess their usability will be reduced to oil rig surprise attacks or mob tagging for less aggressive mobs. Imho, they compensate with solid damage and lower skill requirements.

And of course, the second hit is not necessary to be done with MF. Guns are usable too - enhanced carbine or plasma tagger - it's your call. Much like the old times.

edit: Amenophis,
I think you are confusing cooldown groups with chip levels. They are different things.

I'm not confusing anything . The idea was to show only that there could have been a better plan for the use of the cooldown groups. The similarity in terms of names is just quid pro quo.
Disclaimer : actual cooldown groups have the consequent level chips of a profession within their boundaries and are limited currently to V ( strike chips ) and VI ( first gen combustive ).

 

[AL Killmore]

...an "improvement" for you is seemingly the opinion of a first gen combustive chip target rather than that of a user ... the charging time was the main reason those chips were used for, since it allowed a secondary instant attack. There's also another issue most avoid talking of. These chips delivered FULL burn attacks while the L's have mixed damage....

You lost me there.
First: I've never been a target for firestorms pre-VU10 just because nobody used them (and i've never met the few exceptions).
Second: You keep repeating that you "lost" the ability to make secondary instant attack. From my tests with field chips the secondary instant attack is not lost in any way unless firestorm uses different mechanism. Can you confirm 100% that you can't use attack from another weapon immediately after casting firestorm?
Third: First gen combustive chips still deliver full burn attacks as far as i know.

So what's your point?
You whine all over the place that you can't show off with your firestorm chip? You whine that the new L chips are not as good as the First Gen combustive chips? You whine that Mind Force is not made overpowered by comparison with the other weapons?

 

[M Rufen Power]

PS: in my opinion , MF should provide the ultimate pvp professions, as it should deal the highest burst dps, especially since it is allowed no tiering atm.

I agree with this . As it makes being top dog in pvp almost fruitless, you got cold, fire & electric damage there is no 1 armour in EU that can successfully protect against all three from the strongest level chips .

 

[Amenophis]

You lost me there.
First: I've never been a target for firestorms pre-VU10 just because nobody used them (and i've never met the few exceptions).
Second: You keep repeating that you "lost" the ability to make secondary instant attack. From my tests with field chips the secondary instant attack is not lost in any way unless firestorm uses different mechanism. Can you confirm 100% that you can't use attack from another weapon immediately after casting firestorm?

Yes. You can't cast first gen firestorm and then switch. Even without the cooldown being an issue ( and it is ) , you will still have ... a "warm-up" of 5.9 seconds for a strike chip thus your instant attack is a joke. And seconding a firestorm with anything else than marber/pk carbine/another strike chip/firestorm is a joke as well when talking of 2 shot kills. Anything else but instant attack after releasing a firestorm means 50% less efficiency as it will allow the target to use a heal.

Third: First gen combustive chips still deliver full burn attacks as far as i know.

Yes, this statement was aimed at showing WHY it was nerfed.

So what's your point?
You whine all over the place that you can't show off with your firestorm chip? You whine that the new L chips are not as good as the First Gen combustive chips? You whine that Mind Force is not made overpowered by comparison with the other weapons?

The point is that OP is utterly mistaking when talking of firestorm as being better. Check your info and then make generalized allegations. As far as the "whining" is concerned ... this is called lobby ( as my group of interest has been severely disadvantaged ), moreover I enjoy nuking wrong posts. Your "combos" are in no way addressing pvp. And secondly, strike chips have cooldown hence yeah, you can't chain 2 pvp attacks if the first one is a strike chip one ( you're within 60m range - that means you can be shot down with a lr++ ). But even if the second one is a firestorm ( that being a stupid suite BTW ) , you will still wait 1 second to charge the firestorm ( enough time to allow fapping ) then , after using the firestorm , you will be locked on use of anything for about 14 secs. That cooldown is a bad joke. That concentration (1 sec) is telling the same bad joke again.

As for the "overpowered firestorm", that has really made me rofl. Firestorm was never overpowered as it had always a bad eco and that bad eco was payed only for the pvp/tagging bonus. Nor will it be overpowered since the item can be used only after reload anyway. It's a futile nerf that was done on items with already limited uses.

PS: And that "showing-off" thingie all noobs like to say is called an investment. And all those who have made it were screwed by this update. I suggest you start having a mature attitude instead of throwing around insults like that.

 

[Amenophis]

I agree with this . As it makes being top dog in pvp almost fruitless, you got cold, fire & electric damage there is no 1 armour in EU that can successfully protect against all three from the strongest level chips .

As I said, the strongest chips atm ( the strike ones ) have mixed damage type , so the actual damage inflicted is a lot less when facing balanced armors ( generally hunting ones ). You will make some damage , but nothing an ur 175 can't deal with given enough "cooldown" times.

 

[AL Killmore]

So, all that whining is because your "investment" didn't work as you planned? It's understandable but i can't help you with that.

Where i see improvements, potential and usability you see just "nerfs", "bad jokes" and "generalized allegations". Anyway, i don't intend to fight biased opinions here. Thanks for the info about firestorm chip and that's all. Without any tests i can't say for sure if your points about it are right or wrong.


Back ontopic. For now, confirmed combo attacks are:

Field chip (any type) + direct attack chip (without warmup/cooldown) or normal gun

Obviously, for maximum effect and PvP activities should be used the highest damage combinations. Like Combustive strike + PK carbine/sniper or Cryo strike + Cryo VII for maximum cold dmg blast. Electric chips are weaker and just don't have the kick for killing armored opponent without critical. They are more affordable tho and have cheap UL first gen versions which makes them perfect for practice.

 

[Amenophis]

As far as first gen combustive is concerned, your OP is wrong stating that it's better. Everything else is better.

However, I'm very curious about the "combo" you are talking about. Strike chips have a quite high reload and also high cooldown times . Are you able to switch instantly to another weapon (non-MF) after releasing a strike attack ? Cause first gen also has high reload and cooldown and doesn't allow switching to a Marber for instance while cooldown is active. CD group is VI.
If cooldown is to work as logically supposed, removing the cooldown period when chaining 2 different group chips, that would mean you can chain a strike attack and a normal MF attack only. If you don't have any cooldown when switching to a carbine/pistol/melee after using a strike chip, then I have to say that cooldown is bugged on the first gen combustives, but at least I could use a strike chip and then , 1 sec away, I could use the firestorm. Blah ... this is giving me nausea . Still, you won't be able to deal high burst damage in a 2x MF attack combo ( even if it involves instant firing ).

PS: "So, all that whining is because your "investment" didn't work as you planned?" <> the investment is not working as it was when I payed for its utility and it does so after human intervention. EULA states this might happen, but it is actually the first time this DOES happen in EU history ( except for the fix of the amps which has been actually a fix of an exploitable glitch ). No item stats tampering has ever hit so hard an item.
I also believe there should be some light shed upon the EULA conditions as the property of MA over all items is quite blurry. When I'm buying an item, I'm getting a proof of the acquisition RL. Even if we all agree to the EULA, it doesn't mean that we like getting say a LR66 at 200% and see that tomorrow it has 20/20 reload or the dps of an opalo. It is enough that we agree to pay ( USD ) MU on virtual items and we pay it ONLY cause of their utility. When that utility is being taken away, the question about the use of investments pops up.

 

[AL Killmore]

... Are you able to switch instantly to another weapon (non-MF) after releasing a strike attack? ...

Yes. That's the reason for this thread after all

You can try with combustive strike chips. They have very low MU atm and deal solid damage at average range - great for tagging. By your posts about using firestorm i guess you should have enough skills in pyrotropy (or whatever it's called now) to use them.

 

[Coop_]

As far as first gen combustive is concerned, your OP is wrong stating that it's better. Everything else is better.

However, I'm very curious about the "combo" you are talking about. Strike chips have a quite high reload and also high cooldown times . Are you able to switch instantly to another weapon (non-MF) after releasing a strike attack ? Cause first gen also has high reload and cooldown and doesn't allow switching to a Marber for instance while cooldown is active. CD group is VI.
If cooldown is to work as logically supposed, removing the cooldown period when chaining 2 different group chips, that would mean you can chain a strike attack and a normal MF attack only. If you don't have any cooldown when switching to a carbine/pistol/melee after using a strike chip, then I have to say that cooldown is bugged on the first gen combustives, but at least I could use a strike chip and then , 1 sec away, I could use the firestorm. Blah ... this is giving me nausea . Still, you won't be able to deal high burst damage in a 2x MF attack combo ( even if it involves instant firing ).

I'll confirm that you can chain a strike attack with any of the (L) attack chips or first gen electro chips.

I'm surprised to learn that you can't chain off the first gen combustive attack chips. Would you mind posting a screenie of the stats of your chip?

 

[Amenophis]

Lol. Then it's a bug. I can't use marber after first gen combustive VI unless I am waiting for the cd to be over. I'm not aware if this was fixed after the last 2 updates tho. I was kinda fed up with using it prior to them.

PS: supposing you are using the electric after the strike here ... Otherwise it would not be called chaining if you are using the strike after the electric ( you'll have to wait for concentration to end ).

http://entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=First_Gen_Combustive_Attack_Chip_VI

 

[Coop_]

Lol. Then it's a bug. I can't use marber after first gen combustive VI unless I am waiting for the cd to be over. I'm not aware if this was fixed after the last 2 updates tho. I was kinda fed up with using it prior to them.

PS: supposing you are using the electric after the strike here ... Otherwise it would not be called chaining if you are using the strike after the electric ( you'll have to wait for concentration to end ).

Charge strike chip --> use strike chip --> immediately switch to electro attack chip --> immediately use electro attack chip --> wait for reload of electro attack chip

I'll be interested to hear if this was a bug that has been fixed. Or maybe the first gen combustive is still bugged, or isn't supposed to work that way anymore (nerfed).

http://entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=First_Gen_Combustive_Attack_Chip_VI

Already checked entropedia, would like to see a screenie from ingame if possible (can look myself at the orders screen when I get a chance.)

 

[Amenophis]

I'll be interested to hear if this was a bug that has been fixed. Or maybe the first gen combustive is still bugged, or isn't supposed to work that way anymore (nerfed).

I'll be back with info. Haven't tested it in conjunction with an electric chip. I believe I tried L combustive instead. It surely didn't work with marber on the second attack. It might work with electric as it seems the actual MF attack is split into 3 types : normal , strike ( group V ) and nuke ( group VI ). However, using a nuke after a strike chip is way too nerfed at 1 second concentration and the constraint of using the strike first is getting you way too close to the target for the range of the first gen to actually count for something. This is very curious especially since all the first gen combustives are in the same cd group. What is the range for ?

PS: if the chains of strike+first gen and first gen+electric work then it would be logical to have a 3 attack chain possible : strike+first gen ( 1 sec concentration )+electric. However, its pvp purpose would be lacking in a magnificent manner. It seems a lot of new cd groups are required to actually have an interesting MF system ( chain more attacks or have a burst damage dealing chain). There might be a new range attack chip on to give it a meaning. CD/concentration generated a nerf now but a multitude of options for a boost in the future ... When all the dps has been boosted by tiering and new amps , I suspect these options will show up at some point. For now I'll just stick with my toy and skill it further with the available L's .

 

[Amenophis]

Yes. That's the reason for this thread after all

You can try with combustive strike chips. They have very low MU atm and deal solid damage at average range - great for tagging. By your posts about using firestorm i guess you should have enough skills in pyrotropy (or whatever it's called now) to use them.

You don't wanna tag with a strike chip say ... osseocolums .

 

[AL Killmore]

Played a bit with the new Kinetic strike chip:
It's quite good - about 200 dmg, average range, needs electrokinesis skill (most mindforce users already have it developed), impact and electric damage avoid hermes protection (as hermes is the most common PK armor).
Scored a couple of kills with combo attacks near Akmuul TP, it's fun.

For now i have some difficulties with the aim. Especially with moving targets. The blast seems to hit just near the mob/player but i make only 4-5 points of damage or none at all, without even MISS msg. Maybe some more practice is required. The aim is actually quite good in 3rd person mode (a bit slower tho, because the avatar needs to rotate to the pointed direction) and the "hit arrow" is clearly visible, but in 1st person mode (which is better for hunting and way superior for PK activities imho) i have problems and often miss the mob.

Also, the "target out of range" msg does not work well. Especially with Electric strike chips (30m range or so). Not only i don't hit the target but the cooldown activates without any actual shot and for the next attempt i have to wait full 20 sec cooldown + another charging. Quite annoying, even more with the other strike chips which have longer cooldown times.

 

[Coop_]

Also, the "target out of range" msg does not work well. Especially with Electric strike chips (30m range or so). Not only i don't hit the target but the cooldown activates without any actual shot and for the next attempt i have to wait full 20 sec cooldown + another charging. Quite annoying, even more with the other strike chips which have longer cooldown times.

Agreed, this is bugged--for all strike chips I think. Send in support cases.