Mining after the september patch 2019

[LeelooM]

My impression :

First of all I want to thank MA for that drastic change.

At first I was a bit skeptical about it, but we all need to adapt and so we did.

Outcomes are more than positive + the fact that most resources have gone up nicely in the last 3 months makes it more and more a pleasure to keep mining in a win/win situation.

Agree, TT return used to be higher, a lot higher, but that is compensated now with higher MU's, unless you are undercutting most of the time of course and cutting your own throat.

Not gonna give some spoilers away here but I do think mining has improved a lot.

Also the fact that we get TT back on broken depth enhancers makes it very cheap to mine very deep.

For me with F-106 and 10 depth enh (so average depth 1015) it only takes 1,44% of my totall costs.
Now if I count decay on the F-106 finder + T-105 refiner + the old school ME/01 excavator, it brings me to a total cost of 2,25% for my runs, almost negligible/unbeatable so get those if you can.
That is even over 1% less than before enhancers where changed.

I cannot say this enough, but even in mining every pec counts towards your profit.

Knowing that my average TT return (costs included) is +98% ... then you do not have to be a Einstein to count the outcomes, and I'm not referring to myself only here but also to socmates and friend miners.

Already looking forward to start some new excel sheets for the 2020 mining year and improve them even more, cause from every run we learn.

So I wish all of you a very nice and profitable mining 2020

 

[Rocket192]

I'm going to publish some data at the end of this month, but yeah i agree the change is good. just to highlight some findings of mine:


1) timing of big payouts/multis is no longer possible
2) variance for indoor mining (especially with big amps) is greatly increased, which hinders TT returns greatly
3) more loot events/hour = more hofs/drop relatively (if drop 500/hr and you drop 100/hr i'll get more multis/drop ratio than you)
4) planetside markup mining is the way now


speculative until i can get data to confirm. I don't have the 75-82% TT swings that i used to... every 1k drops or so manages to work it's way back to 91%+

even atomic is coming back to try it out

 

[trance]

* So I wish all of you a very nice and profitable mining 2020 *

Same for you! Thanks!

 

[jupiajo]

I see changes in spreadsheet like these:

1. Base loot (normal claims and smallest multis) went down from 85% to 80% (loot 1.0 was 75%)
2. Multis account for 10%, and it goes for weeks and weeks to no end, so a bit more than 90% overall in medium timeframe
3. Got only one cluster of better multis in 25k drops, that's way less breathing room than in loot 2.0
4. I'm going down like a rock
5 Total return yet to be establish.

Maybe I got better loot in the beggining (september,) and now it is just a loooong weaker phase. But with this type of loot I have little confidence, and there is also nothing on HOF board For miners with smaller budget this kind of loot is brutal (more like loot 1.0).

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

Here's my (relevant) analysis: Loot return sux big time, whatever you do.

Players are now doomed to lose all the time.
2.0 is actually only the bad side of the 1.0

Loss : Slowered (just a litle bit).
Loss chances : 100%

Bring back (full) 1.0 ! (for all players, not only me)

Thanks.

(I know 2.0 is "supposed" to be for Hunt, but they obsviously changed all general return system ingame since then)

 

[K_rupT]

 

[Rocket192]

All the miners that are complaining now are/were heavy indoor grinders like myself....


can't stress this enough but going indoors in this current system is a losing proposition - no data to back it up yet but you'll never get those 10k+ towers to kick you back so don't try it.


good note - UL amps should plummet in value in the coming months

go on EL, purchase lookback, look at history of the current top 7-8 miners

they're all camping indoors and yet not producing more than a 5-7k tower every so often. this is a losing way to mine... they'll all go broke, quit, and then your uncapped trash like caldorite will go back to 109%+

you cant grind it out for kickbacks like the old way... you actually have to pay attention now

my TT returns on the last 60k cycled is just over 93% - i'm untaxed, planetside amped 5-8, and hitting uncapped trash hofs. my variance is very low, my lowest return on a 500 drop run was 84%.

I also overlap every single drop i take - loot events/hour matters and always have. same reason that timing and skills matter.

at the end of the day your markup and how you sell your resources separates the men from the boys

 

[jupiajo]

All the miners that are complaining now are/were heavy indoor grinders like myself....

I cite planetside data to be clear.

 

[Liu]

I also overlap every single drop i take - loot events/hour matters and always have. same reason that timing and skills matter.

I don't understand you loot events/hour meaning. Can you explain this expression please ? Thanks.

 

[Heidi S]

at the end of the day your markup and how you sell your resources separates the men from the boys

I agree totally with this and it seems that the best way is with a big bankroll, so that you can sell in large quantities, Quantium keeps saving me from big losses.

Seems very bad for low level miners and ones with small budgets, I'm struggling with a 5k ped bankroll but persevering with the knowledge that I will probably have to top up from time to time.

Indoor mining is hard but I am doing ok when it is during an event like on Monria every month.

 

[Piotr]

Waves are never good, no matter if hunt or craft or mining or box opening. Its bs ppl can go an hour of activity without having a chance to get anything worthwhile

 

[Detritus]

I don't understand you loot events/hour meaning. Can you explain this expression please ? Thanks.

He means individual loot events (loot a mob, loot a claim, craft a thing) per hour. It's always been the most important input factor in determining how volatile your run will be, for any activity in the game.

 

[Rocket192]

He means individual loot events (loot a mob, loot a claim, craft a thing) per hour. It's always been the most important input factor in determining how volatile your run will be, for any activity in the game.

It’s like buying tickets to a raffle. The person buying 1 ticket spends less, but the person buying 100 each raffle will have more wins and thus less losses over a similar period of time.

This is where risk of ruin and bankroll matter though. The rich get richer

Loot events/hour is still the single most important factor in reaching the std deviation of return imo

 

[K_rupT]

I agree totally with this and it seems that the best way is with a big bankroll, so that you can sell in large quantities, Quantium keeps saving me from big losses.

Seems very bad for low level miners and ones with small budgets, I'm struggling with a 5k ped bankroll but persevering with the knowledge that I will probably have to top up from time to time.

Indoor mining is hard but I am doing ok when it is during an event like on Monria every month.

 

[LeelooM]

Couldn't resist !!!

 

[kingofaces]

I'll agree the change was needed. Before, I could get over 100% TT easily in addition to targeting high MU items. That really made amping worth it, but wouldn't be sustainable for MA in the long-term if more people were doing that.

Now I'm hanging around 90% TT before large multipliers. It's nice to see MU increase on many things, but the current mixture of TT/MU returns does make unlimited amps less wroth it (or more time needed for ROI). Enmatter is still good for MU, but ore isn't so great unless you're going for redulite. Vesperdite isn't so great, and gold has crashed, presumably due to the space changes. Otherwise, areas with gazz, igni, etc. generally aren't going to break-even with their current MU and resource mixture either.

That's not to complain at all, but rather that adjustments were needed, and now people really need to watch MU a bit more carefully. Just going somewhere because there's one higher MU resource won't cut it anymore.

 

[Haruto Rat]

gold has crashed, presumably due to the space changes.

No, it's mostly a supply-side phenomenon. According to EL, there were four globals in gold in May 2019 (the whole month). On June 6 alone, there were six. It just took time for everyone to notice (lately, it's been going at a rate of two...three globals a day). That, and also saturation of Perseus market.

 

[LeelooM]

Now we are talking thank you both

Again my opinion :

Almost 20 years ago MU's where a lot better, but then also lots of new players making depo's and no big amps.

Now more players that mostly craft all amps and only a armatrix market, and that's it, that's today's economy.

Also the fact that gamblers are here for the big bang (MA's way to get new people) so market gets flooted with to much according what is needed with the result of some crashes.

Taking into account that those gamblers want to cycle more, still looking for that big bang, so selling cheap, even undercutting them selves and there you have it again, even more on auction.

So MA had to do something, cause people that mine for so many years have come to a solution and make profit, day in and day out (again no spoilers here). And yes, we still can make nice profits but it's getting harder because of the above reasons. but there are ways As for the gamblers, most have been coming and going and they will keep doing it to feed the game, so we need to adjust.

 

[PkmX]

Pardon me, but, what is this september 2019 change that everyone keeps talking about? I see only VU 16.5 is released on that month but the release notes doesn't really say anything about mining.

 

[kingofaces]

Pardon me, but, what is this september 2019 change that everyone keeps talking about? I see only VU 16.5 is released on that month but the release notes doesn't really say anything about mining.

Basically, it was really easy to get TT returns of near 100%. It looks like MA tweaked the variability on average/TT rate. I can't recall if some recent changes we've seen were at that time too, but other recent developments have been some resource distribution tweaks (more lyst in areas it wasn't before regularly).

 

[Robin]

I don't make profit anymore..I love mining on EU but i'm not so addicted that I can't stop for a while and go find other things to do online or in real life for a while. I wish that if I went to so much trouble to get such high mining skills I could at least make something out of this game as a business venture. MA has made it so hard for me recently that I just don't want to try anymore I am so sad for that.

 

[kingofaces]

I don't make profit anymore...

It only seems to roughly be back to what is was maybe before a year ago, but we definitely got spoiled in the year after that though. It seems to come down more to experience rather than having in-game mining skills though. Know where to target for MU, and know when TT is too poor in an area for it to be worth mining. If someone just keeps dropping no matter what or targets an area where average ore MU is maybe only 105%, that's just asking to lose PED. That used to be the case before, but it's just easier to lose PED now if you aren't watching what you're doing.

I know that while I'm not profiting as much as I was last year (not so great to compare to a peak), I'm also not having any trouble breaking even either. I'm not exactly a top-tier miner or anything either.

 

[TheRock]

I had my mining mentor returning back. Was funny cuz now im his mentor

His first obesvation after like 4-6 years been away that there is way too much oversupply and very little crafters as crafters would use Explosive from TT materials instead.

Consider him a newbeginner, but his obervasion was darn sharp.

 

[PkmX]

Basically, it was really easy to get TT returns of near 100%. It looks like MA tweaked the variability on average/TT rate. I can't recall if some recent changes we've seen were at that time too, but other recent developments have been some resource distribution tweaks (more lyst in areas it wasn't before regularly).

Ok, so that was an undocumented or player-observed change I think.

Interestingly I found mining to be not much different compared to 2016 in terms of volatility, although most of the good stuffs seem to be greatly restricted right now unless you target some very specific areas and can hit the resource wave timing. In general I'd say the distribution is even more uneven now.

It only seems to roughly be back to what is was maybe before a year ago, but we definitely got spoiled in the year after that though. It seems to come down more to experience rather than having in-game mining skills though. Know where to target for MU, and know when TT is too poor in an area for it to be worth mining. If someone just keeps dropping no matter what or targets an area where average ore MU is maybe only 105%, that's just asking to lose PED. That used to be the case before, but it's just easier to lose PED now if you aren't watching what you're doing.

I know that while I'm not profiting as much as I was last year (not so great to compare to a peak), I'm also not having any trouble breaking even either. I'm not exactly a top-tier miner or anything either.

Yeah, there are still some good spots and now it requires some techniques (read: not mining skills, mostly) to extract that. It isn't just a PED printing machine now.

 

[kingofaces]

Ok, so that was an undocumented or player-observed change I think.

I won't get into the details too much, but I actually had to redo the decision-threshold testing for I mine an area after the change. The hit rate testing I did from a year or two ago didn't match with what we had today, so I had to redo the testing. That's not data I'm going to post publicly since it significantly affects player TT, unlike some other testing I've posted about in the past, but it is documented at least.

That said, there is another potential unannounced change after the patch that I will be showing some data on later when I get it finalized.