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Info: Mob Level and Skill Gain

Jimmy B said:
Anyone still unconvinced?
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i'm convinced, it proves there's a connection: mob threat level ---> skillgains
ForrestPark said:
I have a fair few pre-nerf test results so I will be able to repeat those tests shortly to see if the MOB LEVEL / SKILL GAIN relationship itself was changed when the mob levels got changed 10 days ago. That should be interesting...
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indeed!
 
Hello,

I have a slightly offtopic question that I hope you experts can answer. According to my mentor, the fastest way to graduate is to go to arkadia or rocktropia to hunt level 4 punies there. Are there no mobs on calypso that will make me skill as fast as those? That would be weird:scratch2:

Cheers,
Zar
 
zarlima said:
Hello,

I have a slightly offtopic question that I hope you experts can answer. According to my mentor, the fastest way to graduate is to go to arkadia or rocktropia to hunt level 4 punies there. Are there no mobs on calypso that will make me skill as fast as those? That would be weird:scratch2:

Cheers,
Zar
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Rocktropia is also nerfed and have no level 4 punies
its lowered dramatically and is below arkadia caraboks now

i think the best gain is still carabok for low level hunters

On calypso the levels are lower so less skillgain.

So your mentor is right on the arkadia caraboks.

Probably he/she didnt know rocktropia was nerfed that hard


On caly there are better skilling mobs but not with 10hp

youll have to spend a lot of ped to skill faster as on caraboks

btw, other low level mobs on ark are still high level compared with calypso
 
if anyone is intrested in proving or disproving this to themselves i can give you some info on 2 mobs to compare skill gains to on cyrene. 100hp mobs 1-4 vs 7. just pm me.
 
mhh so maybe someone has an idea what mob I should hunt to gain skills as fast as possible? I wanna unlock commando (LVL 70 - Hit) soon, but I have 4.5 levels to go!

also with carabok? or Evis or Hogglos?

I can use weapons from 1-81 dps...

:confused:
 
Mob level is clearly a representation of mob stats.

Scoria are easier to kill now and their level has gone down. Crunk shark assassins and streetkings are harder to kill now and their level has gone up.

I suspect some confusion has arisen due to the formula for mob level changing at the same time as some of the stats (eg to reduce effect of regen and/or mob speed etc). So mob level is no longer the same representation of stats that it was before.

Ultimately, I think skill gain should relate to difficulty to acquire, and therefore the changes made recently are, for the most part, an improvement. I think the one thing they do need to look at though is the "kill skill bonus" - its too much like with-profit endowments (all weighted to the end and rarely in the best interests of the saver). I'd scrap that and make the skill gain even throughout the fight. That would get rid of the advantage to killing low HP mobs like carabok/merp.

EDIT: forgot to add that difficulty to acquire also relates to your own skills and equipment. I'd expect a lvl 1 noob to get more skills than a lvl 100 veteran per ped spent because the fight would be harder for them...
 
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Dave Stevens said:
I think the one thing they do need to look at though is the "kill skill bonus" - its too much like with-profit endowments (all weighted to the end and rarely in the best interests of the saver). I'd scrap that and make the skill gain even throughout the fight. That would get rid of the advantage to killing low HP mobs like carabok/merp.
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The kill skill bonus came with VU 7.4 (they used the term "skill experience bonus ") in 2005 to offset the other skill gain changes in that VU. If MindArk would remove it now and distribute those gains over the fight, people would after some time only remember the lack of the kill bonus and yell "nerf" for years. People have onesided memory it seems, like the OP in this thread: Ak-5930-AD

But you are right i guess, it got a bit out of balance considering how many high HP - low damage mobs we have nowadays.
 
Xen said:
I tested two higher health mobs with close to the same cost to kill and very different mob levels. Old Jack's start with 1300 health but have a very high regen rate and with the weapon I was using took about 1570 damage to kill. Paneleon start with 1500 health but have a much lower regen rate and ended up taking about 1600 damage to kill. Two amps on each so very close to the same number of kills and kill bonuses.

L59 Old Jack

oldjack.jpg


L36 Paneleon

paneleon.jpg


Not an extensive test, but it seemed pretty obvious where this was going. 11.53 ped total tt skill gain from the Old Jacks, 8.06 from the Paneleons.
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Jimmy B said:
Nice one Xen, that's the sort of thing I was looking to do. Good thinking going to Cyrene.

Anyone still unconvinced?
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Why would MA code the mob level to reflect skill gain?

I'm thinking MA messed this up and hasn't fixed it yet. After all,

Danger level. Each creature's danger level is set in relation to other creatures' levels.
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Jimmy B said:
Anyone still unconvinced?
Click to expand...

Didn't get to see more data from others but enough convinced to say sorry to Xen for my first two "smart ass" posts in this thread. I jumped to conclusions from my older (even outdated) tests and those was all on mobs with maybe not enough difference in level. My mistake, one should never assume.
 
thoreau said:
Why would MA code the mob level to reflect skill gain?
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It is the opposite, skill gain is a product of the mob level (to a large degree at least), which is the premise of the thread.

And why not?
 
Leona said:
Didn't get to see more data from others but enough convinced to say sorry to Xen for my first two "smart ass" posts in this thread. I jumped to conclusions from my older (even outdated) tests and those was all on mobs with maybe not enough difference in level. My mistake, one should never assume.
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No problem, I did not take offense from your posts, my only problem was with posters who had never done any testing and/or did not have nearly enough experience on which to base their opinions.
 
Xen said:
It is the opposite, skill gain is a product of the mob level (to a large degree at least), which is the premise of the thread.

And why not?
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Knowing the skill gain for a mob is nice for the player but it doesn't really tell you if you can kill the mob right?

In your test the mobs had very different levels but the same cost to kill. How is the level of the mobs helpful to a player aside from knowing one gives more skill gain?

I believe you and your data. I'm just saying i don't think this is what MA intended.
 
Hi guys,

This is just a note to say I haven't stopped researching this since VU14 came out. I'll be ready to do a big post in about 7-10 days time, hopefully before the next VU at the start of March.

It won't blow anyone's socks off as the results are comparatively guessable, but it will be just about the best post to date to show where (all) skill gains in hunting come from. It will cover attack related gains, defense related gains and gains from healing. And of course, which skill gains are affected by mob level and which not.

From my graphs, other cleverer guys might then be able to create some formulas and even maybe work out the best mobs to hunt - from certain perspectives at least.

I have most of the data, most of the text, and most of the graphs done already. Most of the graphs are straight lines actually, which is nice. I just need to fill in a few gaps now.

Have fun!

Forrest :)
 
ForrestPark said:
Hi guys,

This is just a note to say I haven't stopped researching this since VU14 came out. I'll be ready to do a big post in about 7-10 days time, hopefully before the next VU at the start of March.

It won't blow anyone's socks off as the results are comparatively guessable, but it will be just about the best post to date to show where (all) skill gains in hunting come from. It will cover attack related gains, defense related gains and gains from healing. And of course, which skill gains are affected by mob level and which not.

From my graphs, other cleverer guys might then be able to create some formulas and even maybe work out the best mobs to hunt - from certain perspectives at least.

I have most of the data, most of the text, and most of the graphs done already. Most of the graphs are straight lines actually, which is nice. I just need to fill in a few gaps now.

Have fun!

Forrest :)
Click to expand...

Looking forward to it...
 
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