Suggestion: Private Trade and Shop Market Data

[Deleted member 58836]

Hello,

Can you please add a way to track Private Trade Market Data and Shop Market Data?

Currently, the only market data we have is from the auction house. A lot of trade happens privately as well as through shops (some which are setup on PCF and traded privately) but it is not collected and disappears into the void.

I wouldn't care if it was a seperate data set altogether for shops and private trade or if it is amalgamated with the auctions house data. Having access to it somewhere is essential.

Okay, how do we track Private Trade Data?

I would suggest breaking the trade window into a list view (which is already there) where the buyer and seller can both set a price for each unique item in the window and a total can be presented to allow the buyer an easy calculation to pay for the sale.

If trade is comprised in whole or in part with other items, the same setup would apply where each participant would set the prices of the items respectively and this data could then be tracked.

Cheers,
The Great Adventurer

 

[mastermesh]

more calculations on an already stressed server. Not gonna happen. Shop Directory has been asked for forever, even by Ludvig, who now works for Mindark, and that'd just be a quick little algorithrm , and it's not happened yet, and likely never will. Mindark is lazy. They get their cut of your money and don't care.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

more calculations on an already stressed server. Not gonna happen. Shop Directory has been asked for forever, even by Ludvig, who now works for Mindark, and that'd just be a quick little algorithrm , and it's not happened yet, and likely never will. Mindark is lazy. They get their cut of your money and don't care.

Can you just post something constructive for once instead of always being a pessimistic asshole? Just wow.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

say Hello to some serious market manipulation. Get a friend, set some ridiculous price, trade it back and forth imitating some perceived demand.
At least the auction has the listing fee and is a little more transparent that helps discourage this.
And you will have some very messy numbers with the ammount of loaning and un-collateralised hire that goes on.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

say Hello to some serious market manipulation. Get a friend, set some ridiculous price, trade it back and forth imitating some perceived demand.
At least the auction has the listing fee and is a little more transparent that helps discourage this.
And you will have some very messy numbers with the ammount of loaning and un-collateralised hire that goes on.

Screenshot_20210707-201548.jpg

Support and Market manipulation

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Screenshot_20210707-201548.jpg

Support and Market manipulation

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

Yes?

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Yes?

What you're referring to is already against the EULA... and MindArk investigates instances of such....

This is not a good argument against more transparency and the tracking of trade data.

 

[Deemer]

Laws and rules are determined by the values of the majority in this circle.

Fraud is preferred here and therefore looks confusing.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

What you're referring to is already against the EULA... and MindArk investigates instances of such....

This is not a good argument against more transparency and the tracking of trade data.

Right but how would you prove conclusively that true market manipulation has taken place?
People trade their shit between themselves all the time at arbitrary values or no values.
Sometimes extra PED is transferred one way or another as a way to repay some previous debt or favor between two existing parties.

If this extra step of declaring the values of everything in the trade window is optional, then peoplle just wont use it, because why do extra work, and if its mandatory (which I hope to god it isn't), then people would just click whatever button is convenient to expedite the trade. People are lazy. Can you imagine what it would be like to go through 30 different items in the window and selecting individual values for each of them?

There are too many variables here than Mindark would not be privy to, and their either wont be enough data to prove manipulation took place or too much data to efficiently process. Probably both.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Right but how would you prove conclusively that true market manipulation has taken place?
People trade their shit between themselves all the time at arbitrary values or no values.
Sometimes extra PED is transferred one way or another as a way to repay some previous debt or favor between two existing parties.

If this extra step of declaring the values of everything in the trade window is optional, then peoplle just wont use it, because why do extra work, and if its mandatory (which I hope to god it isn't), then people would just click whatever button is convenient to expedite the trade. People are lazy. Can you imagine what it would be like to go through 30 different items in the window and selecting individual values for each of them?

There are too many variables here than Mindark would not be privy to, and their either wont be enough data to prove manipulation took place or too much data to efficiently process. Probably both.

What you're referring to is the need for a rental system which tracks ownership, a society storage terminal or items placed on the ground/apartment floor which is not tracked. Perhaps one of these are needed before a change can take place but that doesn't discount the fact it IS NEEDED.

All trade data should be tracked and transparent for participants to see. It also allows MindArk to use these numbers for their own purposes, such as marketing the amount of trade that actually takes place in Entropia. But yes, there should be separation.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

What you're referring to is the need for a rental system which tracks ownership, a society storage terminal or items placed on the ground/apartment floor which is not tracked. Perhaps one of these are needed before a change can take place but that doesn't discount the fact it IS NEEDED.

All trade data should be tracked and transparent for participants to see. It also allows MindArk to use these numbers for their own purposes, such as marketing the amount of trade that actually takes place in Entropia. But yes, there should be separation.

Well I do agree with you that private trades should be tracked, I just don’t see any feasible way of fairly implementing it into the current economic system. Your suggestion was fair but I don’t think it does enough.
To make something that works I see it would be a hell of an undertaking and likely require a total rework. With so many other tasks the development team are now undertaking I feel the question could be switched from a how, to a why.

 

[Deemer]

This market currently offers only easy manipulation, there is no need to prove when it is obvious.
A new, fairer trading system is needed.

 

[endermigne]

Maybe the first one or two private trades the majority will try to set a price per item and do things right and then nobody cares any more. And no, I'm not thinking negatively, this is just the way it is. For some EU is a game with the actual meaning of "game" (leisure time thing, don't care too much, looking for fun, "wher's mah next globl?", ...).

• If you are experienced enough when checking shops you'll notice that some don't put the same markup on the same items (in other words you could save some PEDs when looking at all items in one shop).
• Let's say you ask your preferred crafter to make 10 of your favourite (L)-guns. Then at the trade they'd have to set the same markup thing on each item. This asks for typos.
• You buy/sell a set of (L)-plates, each with different TT, the lower TT ones with (slightly) lower markup. Even when done with the best intent, how would anyone interpret the numbers then? The history of private trades would only show aggregated numbers over predefined time spans, similar to what we have with the auction history.
• You can't lend expensive stuff to/from your (soc-)friend any more as you'd have to officially trade it. Or "you get your PEDs tomorrow" won't work.

I know that it would be nice to have it. I sometimes wonder, too, what people trade items for that have (next to) no auction history or ridiculously volatile markups. It just won't happen.

and MindArk investigates instances of such....

Well, officially they do. We don't/can't know for sure.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Maybe the first one or two private trades the majority will try to set a price per item and do things right and then nobody cares any more. And no, I'm not thinking negatively, this is just the way it is. For some EU is a game with the actual meaning of "game" (leisure time thing, don't care too much, looking for fun, "wher's mah next globl?", ...).

• If you are experienced enough when checking shops you'll notice that some don't put the same markup on the same items (in other words you could save some PEDs when looking at all items in one shop).
• Let's say you ask your preferred crafter to make 10 of your favourite (L)-guns. Then at the trade they'd have to set the same markup thing on each item. This asks for typos.
• You buy/sell a set of (L)-plates, each with different TT, the lower TT ones with (slightly) lower markup. Even when done with the best intent, how would anyone interpret the numbers then? The history of private trades would only show aggregated numbers over predefined time spans, similar to what we have with the auction history.
• You can't lend expensive stuff to/from your (soc-)friend any more as you'd have to officially trade it. Or "you get your PEDs tomorrow" won't work.

I know that it would be nice to have it. I sometimes wonder, too, what people trade items for that have (next to) no auction history or ridiculously volatile markups. It just won't happen.


Well, officially they do. We don't/can't know for sure.

I think it definitely can happen but it would require a couple other adjustments prior, such as a way to lend items out as you mention, grouping of items for sale (selling a full set of armor on auction instead of just piece by piece)...

I'm pushing for Transparency. There are a lot of shady, back door type deals going on and this type of system would help enforce fairer trade as well as make it much easier for the community to see and report malicious trade practices.