Suggestion: Restriction of forum trading

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Deemer

Prowler
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
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1,086
"Trading section is NOT provided as a means to circumvent the fees associated with the Entropia Universe auction, nor to compete with the Entropia Universe auction in any way."

I think that trading in the forum is abused a lot, so I suggest that a restriction be imposed. Fast as possible will be better.

One item in sale and one for buy.
 
strong proponent of pissing away more auction fees are you?
Auction Fees go to loot. If you're doing things other than reselling you'll reclaim some of those fees you've spent.
 
When you weight the costs/benefits of amending the rule versus amending aggregate community behavior through the curtailment of individual freedom you propose, which seems like a better approach to resolving the apparent mismatch between the two?
 
so maybe, ask for changes to the AH, instead of posting your random forum grievances. reach down deep, find some quality ideas that devs could use to possibly enhance your auction house experience. meanwhile, allow others to trade freely on forums, as has been going on for nearly two decades.
 
so maybe, ask for changes to the AH, instead of posting your random forum grievances. reach down deep, find some quality ideas that devs could use to possibly enhance your auction house experience. meanwhile, allow others to trade freely on forums, as has been going on for nearly two decades.

This is your opinion. Mine is that in the last two years the trade in the forum has drastically increased and is not used for the purpose for which it was made. Everything is sold here, but not difficult for sale items.

All this is definitely competition for the game and the 1st rule of forum trading is ignored.

I use the auction for my sales so I think I have a right to an opinion, don't you think?
 
I'm not sure who this applies to. Don't pay attention when a scumbag bites my leg and I kick him in the teeth. Usually after this happens they complain to the moderator to protect them. I'm just fed up with idiots with a negative IQ to attack on me.

Personally, I see a problematic trade that is blocked by 10-15 year old players and for me this is a problem.

I'm not convinced that 50-100 people in the forum are the whole comunity, but it seems that the majority of them prefer bugs and the exploitation to which they are accustomed and do not want this to change.

I am definitely not interested in the opinion of these people, maybe the others who seem to be in the moment are quiet and isolated.

Trading is a major issue in this game and I hope with the new update there will be a major change on this particular part.

I was asking if you'd considered whether removing the quoted rule might be an alternative, less harmful way to resolve the mismatch you believe you've found between the rule and the manner in which the community actually uses the trading forum. It is now clear though that there's a LOT of subtext behind the original suggestion that would need to be fleshed out first.
 
I was asking if you'd considered whether removing the quoted rule might be an alternative, less harmful way to resolve the mismatch you believe you've found between the rule and the manner in which the community actually uses the trading forum. It is now clear though that there's a LOT of subtext behind the original suggestion that would need to be fleshed out first.

You have more experience and obviously use your head, unlike others. If you think I'm wrong about this, say what your arguments are. I don't like this trade because it manipulates the prices of the items in the game.

If a proposal is made now to change the current trade in the game, it will not be approved by 30 people in this forum, which is an illusion of a majority, because the majority will not understand about this proposal, but it is also not satisfied with the trading environment at the moment.

If this trade is restricted, the forum is really used for items that could hardly be sold in the game. Then this forum group here will start paying attention to this problem.

So restricting forum sales can lead to better communication with the game's developer, who currently imagines that the majority likes to be robbed of fees and resellers.
 
Not the solution but fix the auction and this will get better.
 
[Moderated: removed reply to deleted post]

how can someone sale his armor on AH without braking the set?
i.e. in some cases the sets that u referring cost more than your wages for your entire year! ( u said 1 item at a time, armors have 7 parts )

how can someone sale his gun, in the same time as he is selling his 7 pieces of armor and not sit aside like moron waiting to pass 7 days without using it? because the gun is listed in AH for that time, and if the BO is not meet, he will have to try again, while he can go sweat instead because the forum allows him to sale one item at a time, thanks to a smart suggestion.

i have no words sometimes, literally

:computer:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets also limit caly trade and trade channel posts to 1 a week. Surely they circumvent the fees too?
 
This seems like a ridiculous idea. I have always traded smaller items with low MU on the AH. When it comes to UL items with high MU then I have always posted and advert here on PCF. Why should this system change , unless you wan to pay large AH costs, where is the benefit in that. I also do not understand why the OP thinks the current sales system on PCF is being abused ?
 
Forum trading is as pointed out above necessary when selling sets.
Armour sets
Weapon with matched amp
Warp ship with drive, engineering devices, armament device etc
Clothing outfits
all of these and probably more if listed on AH risk being split, which is neither in the interests of the player or main buyer.

Also when doing garage clearance sales of multiple small items, paints, extractors etc, the stack may be too small to list on AH, yet sold here as a bundle could again work well for both buyer and selller.

Since AH has no function for sets or bundles then sales through forum are very necessary. The alternative is players TT the smaller stuff a nd sets etc are simply spammed in game... Do we really need all the stuff in here spammed in game for P2P sales instead ? Careful what you wish for !!
 
This seems like a ridiculous idea.

Forum trading is...

It is clear that forum trading is about competing with the game or saving auction fees. I.e. most offers in the forum contradict the basic rule, which is not fulfilled by the support of the forum. Since forum moderation cannot determine which item is difficult to sell and is not in competition with the game, then if not remove it completely, which was the idea for my original proposal, but I think it would be better just to be limited.

You have currently identified problem points in the game, where the solution is currently out of the game... This is ridiculous to me.

Maybe I could want back the fees I pay for the auction when I see that the same item is being offered in the forum?

This suggestion is rather aimed at the forum team.
 
It is clear that forum trading is about competing with the game or saving auction fees. I.e. most offers in the forum contradict the basic rule, which is not fulfilled by the support of the forum. Since forum moderation cannot determine which item is difficult to sell and is not in competition with the game, then if not remove it completely, which was the idea for my original proposal, but I think it would be better just to be limited.

You have currently identified problem points in the game, where the solution is currently out of the game... This is ridiculous to me.

Maybe I could want back the fees I pay for the auction when I see that the same item is being offered in the forum?

This suggestion is rather aimed at the forum team.
so you prefer pissing more money to MA, versus using a forum to manage trading of items? items sold on forums sometimes take many weeks, which would could an absurd amount in in game fees.
 
You have more experience and obviously use your head, unlike others. If you think I'm wrong about this, say what your arguments are. I don't like this trade because it manipulates the prices of the items in the game.

If a proposal is made now to change the current trade in the game, it will not be approved by 30 people in this forum, which is an illusion of a majority, because the majority will not understand about this proposal, but it is also not satisfied with the trading environment at the moment.

If this trade is restricted, the forum is really used for items that could hardly be sold in the game. Then this forum group here will start paying attention to this problem.

So restricting forum sales can lead to better communication with the game's developer, who currently imagines that the majority likes to be robbed of fees and resellers.

I initially interpreted your position as something like, "Hey, there's an unfair situation here! Some people are refraining from exchanging certain types of items in respect of Rule 5.1, while many others are violating the rule. This gives an automatic disadvantage to the more honest, rule-respecting people." In other words, the rule is explanatorily prior to the wrong being committed. In this case, your approach would be one possible solution, but another possible solution to consider would be removing the rule, which would in turn relieve the rule-respecting individuals of their disadvantage.

However, it now seems your position is actually that the wrong is explanatorily prior to the rule, so that even if the rule (and thus the unfairness detailed above) didn't exist, establishing person-to-person trades for certain types of items over PCF would still be evil. I'm afraid the rabbit hole here is too deep for me to traverse. I think I have pretty substantial disagreement with the sentiments behind a lot of your phrasing. For example, over time I'm becoming more and more convinced that the term "reseller" is conceptually bloated to the extent of uselessness. Close to everyone recognizes (by experience, even if not in so many words) that the value proposition of Entropia is its suitability to be treated as a consumption good, a capital good, or any combination of the two the individual player desires, and that trading is a vital component of its suitability as a capital good (even the Club NEVERDIE world record, perhaps the story most central in the formation of Entropia's identity, is at its heart a tale of trading and market success). However, the lines between trader and reseller seem completely up for grabs. It is unclear that "reseller" means anything more substantial than "double plus ungood trader." Not only are two people picked at random very unlikely to use remotely similar criteria to define "reseller," so that neither knows what the other is talking about when the word is used, few are even internally consistent with its use, deciding whether someone is a reseller by virtue of their likability rather than on principled criteria.

That's just one example of a potential issue I see buried deep within the terminology being used here. In the sentence, "So restricting forum sales can lead to better communication with the game's developer, who currently imagines that the majority likes to be robbed of fees and resellers," I also think "robbed" takes a lot for granted. Who is the rightful owner of the PED a player might or might not choose to pay for the convenience of auction use, if not the player herself? How can we conclude that developers have built systems based on a misunderstanding of majority opinion? Should game design decisions be based on majority opinion, or is there actually a bidirectional causation here where building a less popular but better system can impact the trajectory of majority opinion in the future?

You can see how much baggage is loaded into even a single sentence when you use this manner of speaking. I fear it would take a near book length treatment of the questions you've implicitly raised to get to the bottom of them. If you really want a positive argument for preferring the status quo to your suggestion, perhaps the easiest one to offer without resolving all of your hidden assumptions is that the Internet is a pretty big place mostly out of MindArk's control. If they place sufficiently annoying restrictions on PCF trading, people can just migrate to Entropia Forum, or Entropia Planets, or Entropia Link.
 
It is clear that forum trading is about competing with the game or saving auction fees. I.e. most offers in the forum contradict the basic rule, which is not fulfilled by the support of the forum. Since forum moderation cannot determine which item is difficult to sell and is not in competition with the game, then if not remove it completely, which was the idea for my original proposal, but I think it would be better just to be limited.

You have currently identified problem points in the game, where the solution is currently out of the game... This is ridiculous to me.

Maybe I could want back the fees I pay for the auction when I see that the same item is being offered in the forum?

This suggestion is rather aimed at the forum team.
do you also propose only being able to use trade chat in game once per day?
 
I initially interpreted your position as something like, "Hey, there's an unfair situation here! Some people are refraining from exchanging certain types of items in respect of Rule 5.1, while many others are violating the rule. This gives an automatic disadvantage to the more honest, rule-respecting people." In other words, the rule is explanatorily prior to the wrong being committed. In this case, your approach would be one possible solution, but another possible solution to consider would be removing the rule, which would in turn relieve the rule-respecting individuals of their disadvantage.

However, it now seems your position is actually that the wrong is explanatorily prior to the rule, so that even if the rule (and thus the unfairness detailed above) didn't exist, establishing person-to-person trades for certain types of items over PCF would still be evil. I'm afraid the rabbit hole here is too deep for me to traverse. I think I have pretty substantial disagreement with the sentiments behind a lot of your phrasing. For example, over time I'm becoming more and more convinced that the term "reseller" is conceptually bloated to the extent of uselessness. Close to everyone recognizes (by experience, even if not in so many words) that the value proposition of Entropia is its suitability to be treated as a consumption good, a capital good, or any combination of the two the individual player desires, and that trading is a vital component of its suitability as a capital good (even the Club NEVERDIE world record, perhaps the story most central in the formation of Entropia's identity, is at its heart a tale of trading and market success). However, the lines between trader and reseller seem completely up for grabs. It is unclear that "reseller" means anything more substantial than "double plus ungood trader." Not only are two people picked at random very unlikely to use remotely similar criteria to define "reseller," so that neither knows what the other is talking about when the word is used, few are even internally consistent with its use, deciding whether someone is a reseller by virtue of their likability rather than on principled criteria.

That's just one example of a potential issue I see buried deep within the terminology being used here. In the sentence, "So restricting forum sales can lead to better communication with the game's developer, who currently imagines that the majority likes to be robbed of fees and resellers," I also think "robbed" takes a lot for granted. Who is the rightful owner of the PED a player might or might not choose to pay for the convenience of auction use, if not the player herself? How can we conclude that developers have built systems based on a misunderstanding of majority opinion? Should game design decisions be based on majority opinion, or is there actually a bidirectional causation here where building a less popular but better system can impact the trajectory of majority opinion in the future?

You can see how much baggage is loaded into even a single sentence when you use this manner of speaking. I fear it would take a near book length treatment of the questions you've implicitly raised to get to the bottom of them. If you really want a positive argument for preferring the status quo to your suggestion, perhaps the easiest one to offer without resolving all of your hidden assumptions is that the Internet is a pretty big place mostly out of MindArk's control. If they place sufficiently annoying restrictions on PCF trading, people can just migrate to Entropia Forum, or Entropia Planets, or Entropia Link.

Thanks for spending of your time for all this.
This is available today.
Since the MA does not have the physical resources to support forum trading, then let it remove it.
There is no rabbit hole.
Most forum traders ignore the basic trading rule here.

fuckin-trade-system.jpg
 
whats the next change u want after this?? u want dung to be toxic and make avatars smell bad therefor lowering their reputation points? i think OP is wasting his and everyone else time and energy on this silly thread
 
There are no plans for changing the trading subforum. If you believe threads are violating the rules, report them.

Now, since there are so many rule breaking posts in this thread from both OP and others... :locked:
 
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