Suggestion: Suggestion: History logs for Crafting Statistic sessions

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
I dont find any suggestion forum so let me drop this right there.

Playing entropia involve using real money (surprise!) so I would like to have statistic logs from my crafting sessions.
I realized this needs when I got a connection lost during my crafting session... As im logging everything on a spreadsheet, this connection lost just messing up my data as I have no way to know how much enhancers I crafted, what's my returns etc.. Can I create a support case to get this information?

I dont think this is too much to ask so let me know what you are thinking about it
 

Aloisius

Stalker
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,670
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
Agreed - MA needs to have a weekly AMA - not once a year or 4~~!!!
 

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
I created a support case but they said "no" and closed the case.
So in big picture, you deposit money and there is no logs how the money is used during crafting if you have a connection lost.

To be transparent, my goal was crafting enhancers until getting some globals, allowing me to sell them at the market prices.
A crafting session of 100 attempts without global, bring my enhancers around 300-350% in average so I was willing to crafting until getting some globals to lowering theselling prices down, at least to the current market prices.

For doing that this way, I require the stats about the return to make sure im not loosing money and being able to know when time come to sell them because my weigthed value is in market range.

As example:
100 attempts -> 50 enchancers -> 350%
100 attempts -> 50 enhancers -> 300%
After this crafting sessions, I know that I have100 enhancers that I can sell for 325% because I know what I got in returns and the MU I paid for each items.
With a `connection lost`, the screen become gray and there is no way you can click on `statistics` to see the results.

I dont think this is too much to ask, getting the results in form of logs about the way you spent your money.
On one hand they wants people coming in entropia doing IRL business (its adverted like this) and on the other hand, they give ZERO tools to help entreprenership, this is not serious..
 
Last edited:

kingofaces

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Posts
843
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
Playing entropia involve using real money (surprise!) so I would like to have statistic logs from my crafting sessions.
I realized this needs when I got a connection lost during my crafting session... As im logging everything on a spreadsheet, this connection lost just messing up my data as I have no way to know how much enhancers I crafted, what's my returns etc.. Can I create a support case to get this information?
The current crafting stats in-game work fine if you don’t get disconnected, but if you’re already using a spreadsheet, there shouldn’t really be any need for anything more in-game regardless of disconnects. It’s just TT/MU in and TT/MU out for whatever mats you are tracking for that BP. It takes all of a few minutes to initially setup, then a few seconds at the start of a the run with the amount you initially have set aside, then how much is left + crafting products when the run is done. That’s all already in your inventory to check in the beginning and the end.

Part of the allure and purpose of this game is figuring things out for yourself, especially when it comes to personalizing how you track returns. MA has made it pretty clear in all professions that the responsibility of tracking what we do with our real money falls onto us. If anything, it’s a lot easier tracking for crafting with what the game provides than how it would be in real life.
 

Aloisius

Stalker
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,670
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
The current crafting stats in-game work fine if you don’t get disconnected, but if you’re already using a spreadsheet, there shouldn’t really be any need for anything more in-game regardless of disconnects. It’s just TT/MU in and TT/MU out for whatever mats you are tracking for that BP. It takes all of a few minutes to initially setup, then a few seconds at the start of a the run with the amount you initially have set aside, then how much is left + crafting products when the run is done. That’s all already in your inventory to check in the beginning and the end.

Part of the allure and purpose of this game is figuring things out for yourself, especially when it comes to personalizing how you track returns. MA has made it pretty clear in all professions that the responsibility of tracking what we do with our real money falls onto us. If anything, it’s a lot easier tracking for crafting with what the game provides than how it would be in real life.
Sure, but how hard would it be for MA to make this tool accessible within the game. Even if you have to enter the values yourself. Who wants to open a spreadsheet everytime. Of course, MA doesn't want anyone to figure out where they are losing money to them. Transparency will only make it harder for them to make money. So they think. I just wish they would play with us instead of playing us.
 

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
The best case scenario should have been API which can be pulled auotmatically with authentication token but there is too much futurist for Entropia, let keep things simple... Like a IRL receipt when you buy something but for crafting session, persistent to connection lost. Dont need to keep track since 2003.. maybe just the last 5-10 sessions, that's it.
 

Power

Provider
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Posts
124
Location
Canada
Avatar Name
The Great Adventurer
Sure, but how hard would it be for MA to make this tool accessible within the game. Even if you have to enter the values yourself. Who wants to open a spreadsheet everytime.
The more they move third-party systems into the game itself the better. I still see their pitch for VR and what the hell good is VR if I gotta "Tab" out of VR to look at my "spreadsheet" or "mining log program"...

If they want to build an immersive 3d world that supports VR they need to start moving all these 3rd party tools that everyone uses in their day-to-day into the game so I don't need to leave it to have access to these tools.

...plus who likes the fact that the owners of these 3rd party tools are using the data you provide them to profit off you in game. You are the product.
 

kingofaces

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Posts
843
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
Sure, but how hard would it be for MA to make this tool accessible within the game. Even if you have to enter the values yourself. Who wants to open a spreadsheet everytime. Of course, MA doesn't want anyone to figure out where they are losing money to them. Transparency will only make it harder for them to make money. So they think. I just wish they would play with us instead of playing us like we are the game.
That's what comes with the game if you want to do tracking like that. If someone doesn't like spreadsheets, this might not be the best game for them unless they don't care about tracking in the first place. The whole sandbox nature of this game is that we provide for ourselves when it comes to extra things that we personally want in our play style. In this case, if you know you have a poor internet connection (which is on you, not MA) then you need to prepare for that ahead of time when you start a long crafting series, and isn't very difficult or time consuming at all to customize to what you specifically want.
 

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
We already have chat.log & private_chat.log, this is not a big deal adding crafting.log as well.
Keeping people in the dark is a stupid concept in the 21st century (except maybe for North Korea)

People only wants the game being more transparent regarding their money, I dont get how people can be against this..


It’s just TT/MU in and TT/MU out for whatever mats you are tracking for that BP. It takes all of a few minutes to initially setup, then a few seconds at the start of a the run with the amount you initially have set aside, then how much is left + crafting products when the run is done.
The returns are not always Metal residues, that mean If you have pyrite for crafting enhancers and get pyrite as part of the return.. How I should know how much pyrite I got in return after my 68th attempts out of 100 on connection lost?

If someone doesn't like spreadsheets, this might not be the best game for them unless they don't care about tracking in the first place.
The goal is providing information for the people who want it.. You'll never see a post on this forum about someone asked to NOT develop this or that..

if you know you have a poor internet connection (which is on you, not MA) then you need to prepare for that ahead of time when you start a long crafting series
Isn't like MA never got server issues...
 
Last edited:

Aloisius

Stalker
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,670
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
Yeah - how are people against it is right?! Seems to be sytematic though, and RL too. It's almost as if their lives depend on the secrecy, and they know it, so every chance they get, they participate in the grand coverup.

Don't get me started on how the solar system has moved into a higher energetic area of the milkyway galaxy and now the secrets require more effort to remain secret. I think it's called the apocalypse or something. :)
 

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
Well, this is not even a secret as you already get this information (until getting a connection lost) by pressing the button `statistics`.
The info is there already, just need it retroactively when required.
 

kingofaces

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Posts
843
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
We already have chat.log & private_chat.log, this is not a big deal adding crafting.log as well.
Keeping people in the dark is a stupid concept in the 21st century (except maybe for North Korea)

The returns are not always Metal residues, that mean If you have pyrite for crafting enhancers and get pyrite as part of the return.. How I should know how much pyrite I got in return after my 68th attempts out of 100 on connection lost?
Starting mats and ending mats. It doesn't matter when it disconnects since you'll always have those two amounts to work with, and number of attempts does not matter for most metrics. That's why I said it's the beginning of any basic crafting log. No one is being left in the dark since all that basic info is easily obtainable with next to no work on our part. In your case it would just be pyrite + other ending mats + # new enhancers compared to what you had previously to figure net returns. I might on rare occasion use the crafting statistics menu or look at attempt #, but most of the time when I'm crafting amps or doing a large click run on something, I usually don't even bother with them since it's mostly redundant with what you'd get with a mats in/out spreadsheet.

The goal is providing information for the people who want it.. You'll never see a post on this forum about someone asked to NOT develop this or that..
We're talking more about the meta-game now. The meta-game involves tracking returns in varying amounts of detail that individual players want. It's not really MA's job to play that part of the game for us, especially for basic things like this. I previously mentioned that they pretty much stay out of that. That goes even moreso when it comes to wanting more nuanced details than just TT in/out, and it's already an exception with that in mind for what we do get on the crafting statistics menu.

When it comes to this post though, I'm mostly chiming in because there's no need for hyperbole like MA "keeping people in the dark" when the information is right there on a silver platter already to figure out net crating returns. It would be great if the crafting statistics info was sent in a message to you on a logout if the crafting window was open, but it's also not that big of need.

If someone wants more detailed information that isn't directly provided, that's on us since each of us tailors how we do tracking differently usually. At least for me, part of the fun of this game is that information is not directly handed to you. For your specific problem, it's not something we really need to bug MA about. Just look in your inventory how many enhancers and other mats you have when you're done clicking regardless of disconnects. If you start with zero or note how many you had on hand before the clicks, you already have all you need. If your spreadsheet is centered on number of attempts, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but that's not the best method if you get disconnects a lot. I used to do that way back when I first started crafting, but moved away from that pretty quickly where I can still enter that to get a few side statistics, but lacking that number does not make the rest of the spreadsheet fall apart.

Overall, the point is that this is not hard information for players to get, but it won't necessarily work if you lock yourself into only getting it if it is presented in a certain way. The easier solution right now is to change how you do your spreadsheets or how you manage your inventory before a crafting run. That's just a reality we all deal with playing the meta-game at some point when we realize our personalized spreadsheets aren't meshing quite how we want with the game.
 
Last edited:

Semm

Old
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Posts
91
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Semmemmon Semm Strafkin
when asking for logs is so complicated...

That being said, with discussing with you I realized that you can craft from your bank directly, which all return will go directly to your character inventory and that fix the issue of Connection Lost. But once again, even if that fix the `Connection Lost` issue I had, I still believe that dont being able to retrieve the crafting sessions stats retroactively is dumb. As you said, this is a sandbox but we still forced to craft on that specific way to keep track of IRL money activity.
 
Last edited:

Deemer

Guardian
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
267
Each particle of the manufacture terminal is returned to your inventory, but the slot machine can accept items that are in the storage. That is, when you start crafting, leave all the items in the storage, at the end of the process everything will be in your inventory and you will be able to track the markup on these items.

Regarding a new ".log"... I think that the current one should be removed as well.
 
Top