Suggestion: Upgradeable UL Equipment

[Jonny Clyro]

Disclaimer: long, boring read

There’s been a lot of talk about the ‘flood’ of unlimited weapons killing the price of UL and L weapons alike, newer SIB gear devaluing old-school equipment, a general lack of markup in loot, etc., etc. I have a suggestion, that I believe could address these issues, increase turnover, and add to the investment mentality that I believe helps separate EU from other games.

Add more unlimited SIB items to the game. Yep, I said it. More.

I would like to see upgradeable UL equipment available in the trade terminal. I know we already have the tiering process, but I’m thinking about equipment that could effectively ‘grow’ with an avatar. Think Ziplex Specialized seekers, Herman Ark Custom rifles, Ozpyn Chameleon armor (ok, the names suck, but you get the idea). The items could begin as low-level SIB gear with base stats, and (after enough uses) the equipment could be upgraded, increasing the base value, the SIB level, and the stats.

The upgrading process could consist of looted materials, crafted components, and crafted parts (e.g. tool parts come from tool crafting, weapon parts come from weapon crafting). Each new upgrade level would be harder to achieve, requiring more time and additional materials. I believe if this was executed correctly, the upgraded items could actually reinforce market prices for existing items rather than deflate them (based on the time and investment it would take to reach higher levels).

The biggest selling point to this idea, in my mind, is the potential to customize each item to fit the avatar. Every item could offer different upgrade paths. Let’s say Jonny wants a high-dps BLP rifle, and Clyro wants a long range BLP tagger. Both players buy a CalyTrek Ascention Grade 1 from the TT. Jonny focuses his upgrade paths toward base damage and attacks/min, while Clyro concentrates on range and base damage. After some heavy grinding, both avatars have a CalyTrek Ascention Grade 5 that fits their individual play styles.

Also, this could be an opportunity to add another ESI-type item to loot that could be used to ‘wipe’ existing upgrades so players can reconfigure their equipment.

So, what wouldn’t this kill the limited item market? I think if these new upgraded items retain a higher SIB level than the limited equivalents, then there will always be a market for the limited items. Plus, if the limited items are reduced or removed from hunting loot, they can become specialty items mostly available from crafters.


Possibilities

Hunting

• Weapons could be upgraded focusing on damage, attacks, or range.
• Low-markup limited items could be reduced/removed and replaced with upgrade materials with long-term markup potential.
• Armor could be upgraded to protect against specific damage types or to increase durability.
• FAPs could be upgraded focusing on heals or uses.

Mining

• Finders could be upgraded focusing on depth, range, or probes/use.
• Assuming range is a contributing factor to loot volatility, miners could upgrade finders to increase (or decrease) range to fit their mining style, similar to the ‘slider’ that has been suggested in the past.
• Mining excavators could be upgraded to increase uses or efficiency.
• New sootos could be introduced for rare mining upgrade materials.

Crafting

• Crafting could be utilized in each upgrading process.
• Less limited items in hunting loot for crafters to compete with.

I believe that MA is grasping to find a way to introduce high-markup equipment without damaging the market on existing gear. Items such as Vampiric Cloaks are pushing the market toward the ‘next big thing’, but how far can that really go? Upgradeable items could help keep the market player-driven, without having to constantly introduce newer, more exotic items. Plus it would allow people to be even more ‘invested’ in their avatars.

Now, for anyone who actually made it all the way through this post, I thank you. What do you think? I know I’m daydreaming here, but I think it could work


Jonny Clyro Vedder


…now let the trolling begin

 

[remontoire]

Possibilities

Hunting

• Weapons could be upgraded focusing on damage, attacks, or range.
• Low-markup limited items could be reduced/removed and replaced with upgrade materials with long-term markup potential.
• Armor could be upgraded to protect against specific damage types or to increase durability.
• FAPs could be upgraded focusing on heals or uses.

Mining

• Finders could be upgraded focusing on depth, range, or probes/use.
• Assuming range is a contributing factor to loot volatility, miners could upgrade finders to increase (or decrease) range to fit their mining style, similar to the ‘slider’ that has been suggested in the past.
• Mining excavators could be upgraded to increase uses or efficiency.
• New sootos could be introduced for rare mining upgrade materials.

But isn't this already covered by enhancers? And works equally well with L items. Also, some of the new attachments being introduced already also do some of this.

I believe that MA is grasping to find a way to introduce high-markup equipment without damaging the market on existing gear. Items such as Vampiric Cloaks are pushing the market toward the ‘next big thing’, but how far can that really go? Upgradeable items could help keep the market player-driven, without having to constantly introduce newer, more exotic items. Plus it would allow people to be even more ‘invested’ in their avatars.

"Grasping" ? The future we are moving in appears to already be towards item upgrades (and special item effects) giving increased damage or protection or special effects - both upgrades to plates (5B and 6A, I wouldn't be surprised if 5d/6a got upgrades too) and amplifiers (A105 & A204) already exists and is the new way of making more markup move. Having more markup cycle and be available in game is vital to stave off stgnation and improve the economy.

Now that armor sets can have full set benefits (see Earth Shock Trooper(L) as an example), I expect that various mid to high level armors will also get amplifier/plate style upgrade options. Probably select armors starting off with Gremlin/Nemesis all the way to Shadow, and graded benefits to having 3/5/7 pieces of the enhanced set.

Not so very useful sights and scopes are probably another area where we will see more of this.

 

[forgo]

This would be a balancing nightmare, and the game already has a major balancing nightmare.

Its one thing to want all those expensive guns and stats to match, its another to piss all of those high end depositors off, and devalue their gear, for the good of comparatively low-end depositors.


Any more balancing issues and the game could literally fail. IMO

 

[SpikeBlack]

The enhancers were supposed to do this but it often ends up being cheaper to buy the next item up rather than continuously feed enhancers into it.

Part of the reason (well I believe it is) that EU economy is in the mess it is, is because of the high level gear UL and L that's been dropped.

Each time they increase the mobs and then the weapons + armour get upgraded then mobs then weapons again. When they thought they couldn't continue doing that they gave us enhancers and now we're getting upgrades again.

Lets face it the ones who are going to be doing this are the players at the top, all that will happen is gap between newbie and even mid level gets bigger.

So MA will screw things up even more.

 

[Jonny Clyro]

Some great points here. Obviously there's not a blanket solution that's going to fix the economy (not that I think it's completely broken, but I definitely believe improvements could be made). I just think there's an opportunity to increase the 'investment mentality', especially at earlier levels. I know that I, personally, would be willing to spend more on my equipment if it was constantly getting better.

But isn't this already covered by enhancers? And works equally well with L items. Also, some of the new attachments being introduced already also do some of this.

I don't know if I would say it's covered by enhancers, but I get what you're saying. Playing at my level, enhancers usually seem like a poor choice, considering the point that Spike mentioned...

The enhancers were supposed to do this but it often ends up being cheaper to buy the next item up rather than continuously feed enhancers into it.

...which is almost always true in my case.

"Grasping" ? The future we are moving in appears to already be towards item upgrades (and special item effects) giving increased damage or protection or special effects - both upgrades to plates (5B and 6A, I wouldn't be surprised if 5d/6a got upgrades too) and amplifiers (A105 & A204) already exists and is the new way of making more markup move. Having more markup cycle and be available in game is vital to stave off stgnation and improve the economy.

'Grasping' was probably a poor choice of words, but I would hate to get to the point where everyone needs a cloak, an amulet, a magic wand, and 10 rings just to stay competitive.

The plates and amp upgrades are actually a good example of the markup potential of 'upgraded' items. Look at the markup of consumable items such as crystal shards and mutated bone pieces.

This would be a balancing nightmare, and the game already has a major balancing nightmare.

Its one thing to want all those expensive guns and stats to match, its another to piss all of those high end depositors off, and devalue their gear, for the good of comparatively low-end depositors.


Any more balancing issues and the game could literally fail. IMO

I see the point with the balancing issues for sure. Something like this would almost have to be built from the ground up, which is improbable with ten years of existing items to contend with. As far as devaluing high-end gear, I wasn't referring to actually making the same quality gear cheaper to acquire. More like splitting the investment into stages that are more manageable to everyday players. So if we're talking about something equivalent to a 30k PED item, upgrades might start at 100 PED and exponentially increase to 5k PED. But in the end, the markup is still there (not to mention the additional grinding involved).

 

[TheGreat]

This system already exists.

It's called "Manufacture what you use".

It's a simple concept, but very easily overlooked.

There are 5 Planets - all offering Blueprints for various level Weapons, Attachments, Armors, FAPS, etc, etc for all different types of levels and profession choices. Sadly Calypso has unbalanced their way out of this by severely reducing the drop rates for TAUs or flat out eliminating the drop.

So, instead of narrowing your play style, try broadening it.

A quick example would be something like this:

Player A starts the game.
Player A buys base equipment (Weapon, FAP, Armor, Blueprints, Finder, Excavator) all from the terminals.
While Player A is maxing out the stats on his Terminal Gear, Player A is searching for resources to manufacture the next level Weapon, FAP, Armor, ETC and cycles the loot he does not require back into skills. This could be done by way of Hunting/Mining or Auctions.
Once Player A is able to use the next level gear, Player A manufactures it.
Rinse - Repeat - Voila.

There is a reason you can fully outfit your avatar from the terminal when you first join the game. It's the players who let one set of skills get away on them and can no longer manufacture the gear they use that have trouble.

If you need a Mentor, I'm available in game and will walk you or anyone who is looking for some guidance through setting themselves up.

On a side note: It's great that MindArk is devaluing gear. The prices have been inflated for far too long and it is part of their "Lowering the cost to play" strategy. They somewhat balanced this by increasing the starting HA on older UL gear. I would suspect in the next 3 years you'll start to see most of the crazy prices level out. I could be wrong, but I think they are starting to see the value in having hundreds of thousands of mid level depositors over hundreds of high level depositors?

 

[valentin]

We have few problems here.

1. MA needs the big depositors, but i dont think MA wants them to be in the game because they stand in the way of new players.

2. MA need new players. but the old players stand in a way for them.

The explanation is that the loot is enough for both groups.

MA knows that when you put thousands of peds on good equipment and hunt for several thousand peds per day so it must be compensated so that you can keep them in the game.

They new players also need something so they can feel that they can develop in the game.

Then we must not forget MA they want more money than before.

So the question is who will have to support who because there is not enough money.

But there are one thing that MA could do that does not cost more money and that would make the majority of players happy ....... but its up to themselves to come on this.

 

[mastermesh]

hmm... maybe make it so that 1000 L items all of the same type and at full tt value + one million ped of each type of residue will allow you a 1% chance to convert the L item of choice from L to UL with TT max value at total value of all peds involved in the process and actual value given back for the new item of 1 pec? It'd be UL, and close to what you are wishing for but that would be one hell of an upgrade path... basically like the old tier and lose an item process but on a much worse scale. If this upgrade/new item attempt failed, all peds paid in this risky gamble would go bye bye. i.e. Be careful what you wish for when Mindark is involved.

As for putting tiers on this new UL item... well... hmm... that process would be...

 

[remontoire]

I don't know if I would say it's covered by enhancers, but I get what you're saying. Playing at my level, enhancers usually seem like a poor choice, considering the point that Spike mentioned...


...which is almost always true in my case.

Well, maybe you can always just switch to a bigger L item, but for me, the next bigger L item is always at least a couple of levels and many months of grinding away. If I want / need more damage in the meanwhile, big L amp and putting enhancers on nearly used up tiered L items is all I can do.

'Grasping' was probably a poor choice of words, but I would hate to get to the point where everyone needs a cloak, an amulet, a magic wand, and 10 rings just to stay competitive.

Consider the tragedy of the mid levels - we don't have good skills yet as we weren't around "back then", we don't really have really good gear (yet), and if we loot something good - never mind something like a cloak - we more often than not sell it to do more urgent upgrades.