Tierupgrade costs

[PreyNaika]

I think they simply forgot to add a soft and hqrd cap in Tiering

In the other Hand:
The reason of wearing a armor is to protect your self from mobs

A armor gets more value if it enables you to protect your self from a wider range of damage types

The armor does not deside what loot you get , The lootpool desides what loot you get , when ever mindark feels like they change The loot Pool

That way it makes sence why tier costs increase for armors that offer a wider Spec of Protection rather then one very high Protection

In the end the stats play together even when you protect ur self 1 dmg more combined with evade/dodge liveleach and ur kill speed. it actualy makes a diference when it comes to grinding speed

In Theory crafting ( what i used to Do a lot in diablo times) every stat counts to the Total product.

Entropia works similar, atleast to my eye
Like for example ( easyest to explain)
Liveleach everyone wants it but almost all forget the fact that you overheal with it and overheal is a wasted ressource, makes more sence to keep it mid range that way your HP converts into a Buffer zone, since you dont need to be 100% full HP.(now you can spend more for damage stats) Mixed with peotection and your kill speed you can master this in order to grind fester, even if this 1 dmg protection Leads into 1 more kill in 1 hour (because you dont need to waste time healing) after 300 hours (about 1 month grind) thats 300 more mobs you killed in same time

This is just a very basic example to illustrate.

I prefer linear
But armors are overvalued in General for me ,because i fight mobs while using long range (bought armor for crit increase)
Diference if you hunt for example desps with 20k armor or 120k armor

For someone else they are the essence of theyr gameplay because they need the protection (melee, pistol, to Bored to hit keyboard Keys etc)

But in General "the 1x1" damage allways outplays protection

This opens up a complete New topic we culd discuss somewhere else

 

[Legends]

John I don't really understand why you keep looking at the durability stat, it seems like you hope it will reveal something to you or like you believe it is a key piece of the puzzle. In fact the durability stat is almost useless these days. MA forgot to look at this closely when they last made changes to how armor works when they introduced Loot 2.0 and so now, it's kind of a pointless stat until to get to it again and re-balance it.

It could be that there is a correlation between what "worth" MA believes an armor has and it's durability stat, so if that's what you are thinking then fine, but I suspect there will be exceptions there as well, so not a foolproof method either.

Regarding the main question:

Are tiering costs unbalanced? Probably. I think it depends on how the armor set's value has been derived. Probably the best way to derive an intrinsic value would be by figuring out exactly how many mobs and maturities it opens up, but that would just be too much work for me so I'll probably never go that far. And yet we do know instinctively that certain well balanced sets open up a lot of mobs and therefore are worth more then other sets with a comparable amount of total protection, albeit more concentrated onto 1 or 2 damage types.

Case in point; how many mobs does Salamander or Viking actually give access to? It's not a lot really. Pan Spec opens up a lot more mobs then them because Impact is the most ubiquitous damage type in the game.

So the price to tier should correlate to 'how useful is this armor really', i.e. 'how many mobs does it give access to?'

If you can figure that out, you will know the intrinsic value of all armors.

Another question this thread raises; is it worth it to tier armors currently?

I think that tiered armors can and are very useful, I have experimented with a tier 5 set of Tiger before and found it to be about as good as Aquila (minus the penetration) so a pretty darn good UL set honestly.

I think the owner/hunter needs to look at his/her options carefully and determine if it's worth the costs, I suspect that it is NOT worth the costs in many cases.

When looking at the top armors, for example Sentinel, Carramone, Perf Gorgon, etc... I would say, without knowing the actual costs, it is probably worth it since it is the only way currently to attain such protection stats, but again, the hunter needs to look over options and compare, a high level healing tool might actually make more sense beyond a certain tier level if/when the costs become exorbitant.

Should MA review costs to tier these armors?

If people are not tiering them, then yes, something should be done because it's a waste of a system. If people are tiering armors all the way (doesn't look like it right now), then no.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

don’t ubers just use crit boosting armor anyways? Stat bonus’s outweigh any real defence nowadays it seems for the true true meta

 

[PreyNaika]

don’t ubers just use crit boosting armor anyways? Stat bonus’s outweigh any real defence nowadays it seems for the true true meta

Depends on the uber i guess

 

[The Abomb]

Why the hell a (UL) armor decay in stats when hit and (L) dont?

This was supposed to be fixed in the Armor update years ago that we are still waiting on. It's not supposed to have lower protection on decay and armor is supposed to have level requirements as a result.

 

[Evey]

216 t3 comps for augm gorgon

 

[John B Knight]

Thanks keep the input coming, it would be really interesting to get a t3 comp number for lord/lady kraster helmet too even if its not a complete set but to see how the cost changes going over 300 protection points if its similar to the 200 protection point mark.
I think we can deduct from the graph that the cost increases are not really about the real benefit of an Amor in relation to anything but rather artificially about passing a set number.
When im talking about cost increases here its in the context of exponential increase of costs not about the to be expected higher cost for more protection.

Here is the updated table (updated in first post as well):

armor set	T3 comps/protection point	T3 comps	Total protection	durability
Chelydra	0.170731707​	7​	41​	3900​
Salamander	0.226666667​	17​	75​	3000​
Viceroy modified	0.361702128​	34​	94​	3800​
Jaguar	0.466666667​	49​	105​	3350​
eMINE	0.591304348​	68​	115​	2700​
Boar adjusted	0.719008264​	87​	121​	3400​
Jaguar adjusted	0.938461538​	122​	130​	3700​
Augmented Gorgon	1.469387755​	216​	147​	3300​
Merry Mayhem	2.15​	344​	160​	3500​
Augmented Imperium	2.536585366​	416​	164​	4500​
Sand Stormer	3.058823529​	520​	170​	5000​
Titan	3.994444444​	719​	180​	5200​
Shadow	4.364130435​	803​	184​	5000​
RX OpTac x2	4.711229947​	881​	187​	5100​
Chronicle	5.505154639​	1068​	194​	5000​
Perfected Gorgon	6.361386139​	1285​	202​	4400​
Mayhem	7.114285714​	1494​	210​	3300​
Eon	8.241860465​	1772​	215​	5000​
Supremacy	10.58974359​	2478​	234​	5200​
Sentinel SGA	11.47325103​	2788​	243​	5400​
Chronicle TEN	11.4813278​	2767​	241​	6200​
Wormslayer	11.90243902​	2928​	246​	6400​
Supremacy SGA	12.44186047​	3210​	258​	5600​
Carramone	12.63481229​	3702​	293​	2500​
imperial hazen	12.65555556​	3417​	270​	4300​
modified shadow	12.70833333​	3355​	264​	6000​

I will update the chart after a few more entries.

 

[allarom]

Protector Of The Empire
670 T3 comps
5000 Durability
178 Total protection
3,764044943820225 T3 comps/protection point

 

[Evey]

pote twen

1956pcs, 5000 durability and 220 total protection

 

[mastermesh]

Whatever happened to that armor will use skill thing?

 

[John B Knight]

If anyone has the t3 comp data for gnome/basic dsec or better a more expensive set of correlating armor that have the same amount of total protection points but one being pure close combat and one being pure 'firearms' could help to see if mindark values close protection and firearm protection the same.

 

[San]

Is the Wiki no longer trusted with this data?

 

[John B Knight]

Is the Wiki no longer trusted with this data?

so far not and gnomes upgrade costs are so low that im not sure if extrapolation would be accurate considering the jump from 1 to 2

 

[Evey]

kraster 3858pcs

 

[San]

so far not and gnomes upgrade costs are so low that im not sure if extrapolation would be accurate considering the jump from 1 to 2

I didn't mean this item specifically, I mean is there a reason the Wiki is no longer the first stop to look for this kind of information, and hence to enter discoveries there a priority?

 

[PreyNaika]

I didn't mean this item specifically, I mean is there a reason the Wiki is no longer the first stop to look for this kind of information, and hence to enter discoveries there a priority?

Since everyone is able to edit data there

Its not acurate and never was

Some people keep Editing stuff there in order to increase or devalue items

 

[John B Knight]

chart updated - had to enlarge it abit and included protectionvalues with names

 

[Killahbee]

Sigyn
30pcs, 2600 durability and 92 total protection

Pretty similar to mod viceroy cost to tier because their total protection is almost the same

 

[San]

Since everyone is able to edit data there

Its not acurate and never was

Some people keep Editing stuff there in order to increase or devalue items

oO
This is not something I have come across so far but ofc depends what one is looking at. Since edit history is visible for each item it would seem foolish as it can be double-checked and seen who changed it. Ok, nothing to discuss in this thread.

Good continuation...

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

This is not something I have come across so far but ofc depends what one is looking at. Since edit history is visible for each item it would seem foolish as it can be double-checked and seen who changed it. Ok, nothing to discuss in this thread.

Especially because there are awesome players who do check history of things to make sure shit ain't broken. I accidentally messed up a calculation and edited an item. Had someone pm me within the day to double check. There are good people in this game. It's why I love the game.

 

[LordVoldemort]

I may be dumbing this down too much but....we know that high eff high dpp weapons have pretty stupid high tiering costs. Yet we continue to tier these items for the benefit of either added damage output or added crit chance. Could it simply be that we can more easily see the benefits from weapon tiering vs with armor the changes are not as easy to visualize?

Tiering a loot 2.0 weapon at a very high tier cost we can immediately hunt a larger mob or take down our regular mob 10% faster/easier. This makes the high cost worth it as we are also getting a high reward.

However when we tier armor we get a bit more protection. Armor lasts just as long but we take a bit less damage when hit. It's not as easy to "visualize" the benefit. Alternatively if we use the new tier to increase the durability of the armor we again get a small benefit that is hard to "visualize" as the armor is providing the same protection but simply decaying a bit less than normal. Yes it changes what's going on; but not in a way we can easily see in the moment.

This really doesn't address the issue of should you just upgrade to better armor but maybe we are looking at the cost/benefit without considering the psychological impact of the changes. I would agree that armors focusing on only a few core protections do seem "better" in many ways and I'm happy to see this being more of a design feature for many of the new sets.

 

[Svena]

I've always thought that MA priced tier costs with armor as if each individual part was a whole item instead of looking at it as 1/7th of an item like they should. Either that or add in different tier comps for different item classes so armor doesn't have to compete with all the high dps loot 2.0 guns.