What is meant by 'eco' hunting?

AckerZ

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Can anyone explain what eco hunting is, I see it spoken about often but not entirely sure I grasp the concept yet?

Is hunting eco hunting to your bankroll/level or is hunting eco more to do with your set-up and how cost effective that set up is.

For instance I can hunt with an LR35 but dont because I can't really bankroll lengthy hunts at that level, whereas hunting with an LR15 i can, is that eco?
Or is hunting a mob you know you can loot effectively and often but then you add amps/enhancers on to speed up the ped cycle would that be considered not eco?

Any light would be appreciated, bit confused on this topic.

Thanks
 

Ferial

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Eco used to refer to economical hunting. E.g. spending as little money as possible for any given loot instance. Primarily by means of high DPP of your offensive equipment. But also by minimizing defensive costs. I'm assuming that is still what "eco" is today.

For me, in loot 2.0 eco hunting is a means of reducing variance
 

messi91

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Being eco is a very misinterpreted word in loot 2.0 like many other things:)
Eco hunter is a term for loot 1.0 where you would have spent less for more dmg therefore at the end of a large cycle you end up with more peds.In loot 2.0 it doesn't make any sense.
I would consider you to find a different term that might makes more sense and its easier to grasp.
 

mastermesh

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Can you elaborate on this topic? Why descreasing [ped cost/kill] make no sense? That...make no sense to me :D
Loot 2.0 = costs of decay somewhat returned to you... since you get the pecs back a little who cares if you pay a bit more in.
 

galer

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Wow...didn't know about that.
So if I kill weak mob with small gun and overall cost will be 0.20PED then if I kill THE SAME mob with big gun and overall cost will be 1PED (overkill) then I'm supposed to get better loot in second scenario? Please tell me that's not the case...
 

galer

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That seems realy bad solution but I need to read more about this Loot 2.0 system to understand probably.
Since I returned to game I trid to reduce cost of killing mob (skills, no armor, finishers etc.) simply believed that amount of loot is not connected to that...
 

Orion

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So if I kill weak mob with small gun and overall cost will be 0.20PED then if I kill THE SAME mob with big gun and overall cost will be 1PED (overkill) then I'm supposed to get better loot in second scenario? Please tell me that's not the case...
MindArk defined "Quality Loot" to be everything that is not shrapnel. Like stackable oils, hides, skins, robot parts, etc. and unstackables like (L) items, (UL) items and similar.

Sample mob:
20 pec Optimal Kill Cost. 25% of the Optimal Kill Cost will be "Quality Loot" (QL).

Weapon A:
Your real kill costs are 20 pec for the 20 pec Sample Mob. 25% of the 20 pec Optimal Kill Cost will be "Quality Loot" = 5 pec.
5 pec QL + 15 pec shrapnel = You loot a total of 20 pec.

Weapon B:
Your real kill costs are 100 pec for the 20 pec Sample Mob. 25% of the 20 pec Optimal Kill Cost will be "Quality Loot" = 5 pec.
[5 pec QL + 15 pec shrapnel] + 80 pec shrapnel for the overkill.
In total: 95 pec shrapnel + 5 pec QL = You loot a total of 100 pec.

In comparison of (Weapon A) to (Weapon B) the share of Quality Loot dropped from 25% to 5%.
Usually the markup% of Quality Loot and the amount of cycled PEDs needed to loot the Quality Loot is what determins to be "better".

If you want to press it into a formula you could say:
Bigger is "better" = (TT of Quality Loot) x MU% / (total costs)
This means you want (TT of Quality Loot) and MU% to be as high as possible and (total costs) to be as low as possible.
 
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galer

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Thanks for quick explanation.

I guess here:

Kill cost B:
Your kill costs are 100 pec. 25% of the optimal kill cost will be "Quality Loot" = 5 pec.
you ment "Quality Loot" = 25 pec?

One more question.
What is "optimal cost":

Sample mob:
20 pec optimal kill cost.
is it defined by MA per mob?

Does someone really checked that and for example killed Exarosaur Young with big weapon and received few PED loot for them?
 
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Orion

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you ment "Quality Loot" = 25 pec?
No, i still refer to the 20 pec Sample Mob, which has 20 pec optimal kill cost with 25% Quality Loot.
Which means the sample mob will still drop 25% Quality loot of 20 pec optimal kill costs = 5 pec Quality Loot.

If the total kill costs could increase the TT value of Quality Loot, then everybody would hunt 1 pec puny mobs with insanely badass guns.

I modified my previous answer post a little, please re-read it. I hope it became more comprehensible now.
 
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Orion

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What is "optimal cost":
is it defined by MA per mob?
Yes.
As a rule of thumb you can take a DPP (damage per pec) of 3,00 to be the target value.

If your DPP is higher than 3,00, then your return of Quality loot will be higher than average (>25%).
If your DPP is lower than 3,00, then your return of Quality loot will be lower than average (<25%).

Divide the Health points of the mob by 3,00.
A 60HP mob would cost you 20 pec to kill then (our Sample Mob!).
Those 20 pecs shall be your optimal costs.
If you need only 15 pec to kill the 20 pec sample mob, then you still get 25% of 20 pec optimal loot as Quality Loot = 5 pec, but you get only 10 Pec Shrapnel. 5 pec QL + 10 pec shrap = 15 pec kill cost returned. But your ratio of QL to shrapnel improved from 25% to 33%.

The basic 25% share of QL i use are a sample number.
Hidden in MA's loot codes it might be 15% or 20% or 30%. Who knows? But the 25% vaguely fit my experience.

Does someone really checked that and for example killed Exarosaur Young with big weapon and received few PED loot for them?
Yes, this has been verified right after introduction of Loot 2.0.
Someone shot puny Berycleds with a big badass gun. There is a post about the results buried somewhere here in this forum.
 
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Evey

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Can anyone explain what eco hunting is, I see it spoken about often but not entirely sure I grasp the concept yet?

Is hunting eco hunting to your bankroll/level or is hunting eco more to do with your set-up and how cost effective that set up is.

For instance I can hunt with an LR35 but dont because I can't really bankroll lengthy hunts at that level, whereas hunting with an LR15 i can, is that eco?
Or is hunting a mob you know you can loot effectively and often but then you add amps/enhancers on to speed up the ped cycle would that be considered not eco?

Any light would be appreciated, bit confused on this topic.

Thanks
Eco these days can be many things, but surviving & self sustainability (and constant profit at end game) would be at the root of all possible angles...
It can be a mix of all, can be finding a good balanced setup, with a good combination of efficiency, dps and dpp, in this order in my opinion and not super expensive. People choose to spend double on roughly the same dps/effi on ranged, versus FEN MF combos. That's uneco in my opinion.
Eco is being as efficient as possible while farming for markup. Cost is irrelevant if the outcome is good. Bigger costs may mean better results too and while others focus on getting efficient on punnies, ofc the good stuff is where fewer people have access.


There is no fixed QL in mobs, imo. It all depends on what's in the loot table of the mob ad your DPP. I can kill a Levi and get 10 ped TT of spleen (2 pcs) and 3 pecs of shrapnel. On other planets you can get below 30% shrapnel, because of the way the loot table is set up.
Focus on a good tool to be able to efficiently extract the goodies :)
 

galer

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Yes @Orion my bad. Now I think I understand, but then it means that there is no difference if you kill 20 pec mob with 20 pec (optimal) weapon or 100pec weapon.
"Quality Loot" will be always 25% of "optimal kill cost" so 5 pec. The difference will be only in shrapnel amount.

I understand that:
In comparison of (Weapon A) to (Weapon B) the share of Quality Loot dropped from 25% to 5%.
but in the end there is no difference in VALUE of "Quality Loot".
In scenario A player will receive 15 pec shrapnel and 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.
In scenario B player will receive 95 pec shrapnel and (again) 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.

So player B will end hunt with much more shrapnel but with the same amount of "quality loot". What's the point of picking right weapon for right mob if player can overkill mob and get no "penalty" for that? In fact he "wasted" a lot of ammo but the game will "give it back" to him?

EDIT after your second post:

Ok, so the thing is to kill mob at lower cost than it's 'optimal kill cost' because then you still get quality loot based on optimal kill cost.
But on the other hand there is no difference if you kill 20 pec mob with 1 PED, 10 PED or 100 PED because it's still MORE than optimal cost and game will give you the same amount of 'quality loot' and return shrapnel depend of actual costs.
 
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Evey

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Yes @Orion my bad. Now I think I understand, but then it means that there is no difference if you kill 20 pec mob with 20 pec (optimal) weapon or 100pec weapon.
"Quality Loot" will be always 25% of "optimal kill cost" so 5 pec. The difference will be only in shrapnel amount.

I understand that:


but in the end there is no difference in VALUE of "Quality Loot".
In scenario A player will receive 15 pec shrapnel and 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.
In scenario B player will receive 95 pec shrapnel and (again) 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.

So player B will end hunt with much more shrapnel but with the same amount of "quality loot". What's the point of picking right weapon for right mob if player can overkill mob and get no "penalty" for that? In fact he "wasted" a lot of ammo but the game will "give it back" to him?
What you are missing from this is the long term impact.
If you send 1000 PED to get same MU as I get while I spend 650, you will loose 50PED while my loss would be 32.5 (say 95% tt return) so your cost to farm same markup would be much higher.
DPP still plays an important role.

LE. Well, you can look at it between two weapons, same mob, same person, one of them will allow you to loose less - this is the essence of loot 2.0
 
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Ferial

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but in the end there is no difference in VALUE of "Quality Loot".
In scenario A player will receive 15 pec shrapnel and 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.
In scenario B player will receive 95 pec shrapnel and (again) 5 pec "quality loot" with some MU.

So player B will end hunt with much more shrapnel but with the same amount of "quality loot". What's the point of picking right weapon for right mob if player can overkill mob and get no "penalty" for that? In fact he "wasted" a lot of ammo but the game will "give it back" to him?
Ah, this is a common misconception. The best way to see the difference would be to look, not at numbers as numbers, but at numbers as percentages.

Not sure where these numbers come from, but to stay on track i'll use the same.

Player A will receive 15 pec shrapnel and 5 pec "quality loot" of lets say 110% MU just for simplicity.
-----> Player A will receive 75% shrapnel and 25% "quality loot" of 110% MU
---------> Player A will receive 75*1.01 + 25*1.10 = 103.25% average MU.

Player B will receive 95 pec shrapnel and 5 pec "quality loot" of lets say 110% MU just for simplicity.
-----> Player B will receive 95% shrapnel and 5% "quality loot" of 110% MU
---------> Player B will receive 95*1.01 + 5*1.10 = 101.45% average MU.

Now lets use this 95% TT-return value that people love to throw around for some reason:

Player A with an average MU of 103.25% and 95% TT-return will for every 100 PED they put in get 95 PED in return, for which they get 3.0875 PED MU for a total of 98.0875 PED.

Player B with an average MU of 101.45% and 95% TT-return will for every 100 PED they put in get 95 PED in return, for which they get 1.3775 PED MU for a total of 96.3775 PED.

As you can see. DPP is still very important.

So, once again: Get Efficiency, get Looter, choose good mobs, and hunt them efficiently. (MA has said this, pretty much straight out, using other words)


DISCLAIMER: I have not confirmed the numbers are correct, so in case anything is wrong, sorry. BUT in the end it doesn't really matter.

Edit: fixed a few typos.
 
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