Question: When to switch SIB weapon?

NathanLate

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I have recently started skilling BLP pistoleer, and im using the SIB guide, but my question is if its optimal to switch weapon when the next weapons SIB kicks in? Isnt it better to use the old one a little bit longer because it still have SIB and its stats are better for your skill?

regards
NathanLate
 
You get maximum benefit (most skills+best eco) when you have maxed SIB period.
 
You get maximum benefit (most skills+best eco) when you have maxed SIB period.

Do you realy get more skills after you have maxed a gun?
I thought that the SIb was there for those of us that wants the skills fast and dont care about the eco?
The eco is down when you use the SIB since you shoot slower and deal less dmg than with a full gun, but isnt it here that the SIB comes into play and compensate for this by giving you extra skills instead?

I am changing gun as soon as I do more DMG/sec with the next SIB weapon than I do with my previous one, but that might be totaly off if the SIB helps after you have maxed a gun.
 
There are a few questions I don't think we know the answer to:

1. How much bonus is the SIB?

2. Is the SIB greater when you have a lower professional standing?

3. Does the SIB apply to all skills or just those specific to the professional standing?

4. Does a maxed SIB weapon give more or less skills than an old school weapon? (For example, a maxed Breer M3a vs. a Mk2)
 
1. I have read several theorys about that if the gun is uneco then your skillgains are usualy higher. dont know if this is true or how much extra it would be if it is true.

2. If this is true then, the higher lvl weapon, the more decay, the more skill from SIB and without it.

3. I think that the natural way would be if you are firing a gun you get SIB (if active) for those skills that you get normaly for firing that gun.

4. the same skills, unless you pay loads decay or fire realy fast.

This is my opinions, I might be way off as usual, but I find this the most logical way, but then again EU is dynamic not logical :)
 
Do you realy get more skills after you have maxed a gun?
I thought that the SIb was there for those of us that wants the skills fast and dont care about the eco?
The eco is down when you use the SIB since you shoot slower and deal less dmg than with a full gun, but isnt it here that the SIB comes into play and compensate for this by giving you extra skills instead?

I am changing gun as soon as I do more DMG/sec with the next SIB weapon than I do with my previous one, but that might be totaly off if the SIB helps after you have maxed a gun.


I get more skills from maxed SIB on healing tools. I can't say it's the same for every avatar. I have not seen any evidence to suggest it doesn't work for others, nor have i seen any eveidence that it's not applicable to weapons.

I did the SIB-skill up on weapons without actually doing any tests, I just assumed everyoe else who had been ingame knew better since they kept suggesting it. Now that I know what the situation is, for me at least, I can only advise based upon evidence and not hearsay
thoreau said:
1. How much bonus is the SIB?

2. Is the SIB greater when you have a lower professional standing?

3. Does the SIB apply to all skills or just those specific to the professional standing?

4. Does a maxed SIB weapon give more or less skills than an old school weapon? (For example, a maxed Breer M3a vs. a Mk2)

I will answer for paramedic professions for me (i give no guarantee it works for anyone else, nor do i give any guarantee it works across professions)
1. More than using nonSIB
2. The skills i get during SIB are less than I get when the item is maxed SIB
3. Only tested Paramedic. If someone wanted to fund some x5's or H30 Illums for me i'd be happy to do extensive testing (currently in SIB on these pistols, but knowing what I know, see little point in using them when there are so many other weapons available that are cheaper. Also you have to have a weapon in testing mose that you can put 10kped through and not increase a level.
4. See 1.

staffas said:
1. I have read several theorys about that if the gun is uneco then your skillgains are usualy higher. dont know if this is true or how much extra it would be if it is true.

2. If this is true then, the higher lvl weapon, the more decay, the more skill from SIB and without it.

3. I think that the natural way would be if you are firing a gun you get SIB (if active) for those skills that you get normaly for firing that gun.

4. the same skills, unless you pay loads decay or fire realy fast.

This is my opinions, I might be way off as usual, but I find this the most logical way, but then again EU is dynamic not logical
1. No one's published any results yet.
2. yes. It has always been 'assumed' though. People 'assume' the adj V1 gives more skills because they linked greenlines to number of shots per minute to volume gain. There is no correlation to volume gain and greenlines, so the presumption that such a weapon gives more skills merely because it fires fast is false.
3. From what I have observed, my "justification" for
higher dmg/sec in SIB vs maxed SIB lower dmg/sec is:
you are allowed to use the higher dmg/sec weapon (in SIB without proper skills to use), but you will take a penalty on it for skills/ped, dmg and hit as you aren't skilled enough to use it at max. But you do have the *option* to use it, and that is what SIB is.
4. I think, among many other reasons, SIB was introduced was to give those of us not able to afford MM's + imk2's a chance to skill up economically by giving a bonus on these weapons for using them. Like double skills. An experiment could be done comparing the skill speed of a noob who uses maxed SIB only vs noob who uses justifer MkII vs noob who uses weapons in SIB period only vs noob who uses amps on weapons....and see who graduates a) fastest, b) cheapest

As a sidenote, no one can provide evidence as to whether amps contribute to skills, or if you use EM, whether they contribute to loot.
 
Interesting....
someone gonna do a simple, understandable, empiric yet comprehensive test soon?? ;)
 
I would love to see a test on this... however, is it possible for one single person to test any of these theories??

We all know that as your skills increase, it takes longer for each increase to take effect. that being said... if you fired 10k rounds from a breer m3(L), then fired 10k rounds from an A-3 Punisher MkI, your skill increase would be faster on the M3, since, at the time, your skills were lower and increased a small percentage faster. (I hope this makes sense :scratch2:)

Perhaps the only way to test this would be to either a) start with 2 fresh off the boat n00bs who have NO skill whatsoever... give one ONLY SIB weapons, give the other ONLY non-SIB weapons, same amount of ammo, etc, etc, and see who gets faster skill increases... OR b) find two players in game with the SAME EXACT SKILLS... and, again, give one SIB and one non-SIB weapons....

So, in short... don't think we are gonna be seeing any tests on these theories any time soon. :D
 
I would love to see a test on this... however, is it possible for one single person to test any of these theories??

We all know that as your skills increase, it takes longer for each increase to take effect. that being said... if you fired 10k rounds from a breer m3(L), then fired 10k rounds from an A-3 Punisher MkI, your skill increase would be faster on the M3, since, at the time, your skills were lower and increased a small percentage faster. (I hope this makes sense :scratch2:)

I think the way around this is to do a series of tests alternating weapons then average the results.

Trial 1 - 1000 shots with Mk1
Trial 2 - 1000 shots with M3a
Trial 3 - 1000 shots with M3a
Trial 4 - 1000 shots with Mk1

Then you average trials 1+4 and 2+3. This should compensate for any skill slowdowns. (I think)
 
Trial 1 - 1000 shots with Mk1
Trial 2 - 1000 shots with M3a
Trial 3 - 1000 shots with M3a
Trial 4 - 1000 shots with Mk1

Then you average trials 1+4 and 2+3. This should compensate for any skill slowdowns. (I think)

No need to do it more complicated than nessesary.
Just do:
Trial 1 - with Mk1
Trial 2 - with M3a
Trial 3 - with Mk1
Trial 4 - with M3a
..and so on

Each result would bring you a figure to add to your graphs - regardless of which test came first. The more figures the more precise the graph would look. Soon you would be able to see a pattern.

Besides. The skill slowdown will not be noticeable on only 1000 shot rutines. Maybe on a complete noob you could see some minor degradings, but I doubt it.

Biggest problem would be to track the exact amout of skills from the image skill-bar ingame. The written amount of skills will not be accurate enough. You would need to take screenshots of the image skill-bar or meassure and calculate the length of the bar directly on the screen.

Example:
How long is the bottom line, if the top line is 1:
_______________________________________
__________

?? ;)

...
 
No need to do it more complicated than nessesary.
Just do:
Trial 1 - with Mk1
Trial 2 - with M3a
Trial 3 - with Mk1
Trial 4 - with M3a
..and so on

Each result would bring you a figure to add to your graphs - regardless of which test came first. The more figures the more precise the graph would look. Soon you would be able to see a pattern.

Besides. The skill slowdown will not be noticeable on only 1000 shot rutines. Maybe on a complete noob you could see some minor degradings, but I doubt it.

Biggest problem would be to track the exact amout of skills from the image skill-bar ingame. The written amount of skills will not be accurate enough. You would need to take screenshots of the image skill-bar or meassure and calculate the length of the bar directly on the screen.

Example:
How long is the bottom line, if the top line is 1:
_______________________________________
__________

?? ;)

...

Agreed. Data collection would be so much easier if we could parse the dmg window.
 
Agreed. Data collection would be so much easier if we could parse the dmg window.

I might be lucky to get ten greenlines with 1000 shots.

1kped through each would eliminate uncertainties (all 100+ skills would need to be noted so deconvolution can be performed afterwards) and they would need to be performed across a variety of skil levels,by a variety of players.

Personally i think p5a vs ep40 is a better comparison (it's faster too) Both unamped. Then when enough tests are done, with amps.

edit: to eliminate uncertainties, buffer with 100ped first (ignore the skill gains).
 
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I've got to the point where HL15 was maxed not so long ago. So far however, shooting with HL15 is comparable to storing my PED on PA teleport.

I seem to do OK with lower weps still, so I wonder whether there's more to it all than meets the eye...
 
I've got to the point where HL15 was maxed not so long ago. So far however, shooting with HL15 is comparable to storing my PED on PA teleport.

I seem to do OK with lower weps still, so I wonder whether there's more to it all than meets the eye...

This is true for me with regards to the Breer M4a. I have it maxed but I simply lose PEDs as if there was a hole in my pocket. I continue to almost break even when using the Breer M3a or the Riker UL 1.
 
I've got to the point where HL15 was maxed not so long ago. So far however, shooting with HL15 is comparable to storing my PED on PA teleport.

I seem to do OK with lower weps still, so I wonder whether there's more to it all than meets the eye...

This is true for me with regards to the Breer M4a. I have it maxed but I simply lose PEDs as if there was a hole in my pocket. I continue to almost break even when using the Breer M3a or the Riker UL 1.

Yeah I find these experiences very odd, and well, *lol* just look at my loot stats in buckaroobanzai's thread... There is after all that broadcast within EU that says "match your skills and weaponry". The thing is I have found the same weapn vs same mob doesn't return consistent results for me (hence my recent pseudo-whines about loot) and then I get blasted because I do switch mobs :p but whenever i have switched mob/weapon when loot's bad i get (partial) success. I have to start and test a new theory now :O maybe it comes from being Stamina 1 I may be fortunate though in that the p5a may work permanently for me...more tests more tests.... (more amps needed....:p)

hey look another pseudowhine...
 
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great ideas here. +rep to immortal and thoreau.
I suggest a group of people get together and fund 3 start up noobs (shhh or 2nd avatars shh). Then do the tests as mentioned above. With one sticking with pistol or opallo way past maxing, one upgrading as soon as maxed, and one sticking with non-sib weapons. It will cost a few peds, but the loot will mostly pay for it on low end weapons / low end mobs.
 
I have recently started skilling BLP pistoleer, and im using the SIB guide, but my question is if its optimal to switch weapon when the next weapons SIB kicks in? Isnt it better to use the old one a little bit longer because it still have SIB and its stats are better for your skill?

regards
NathanLate

Personally I only use maxed (L) weapons, I'd rather have efficiency than SIB.
But if I wanted SIB I'd still wait until the HA is about 9/10 before using a weapon.

Gypsy
 
great ideas here. +rep to immortal and thoreau.
I suggest a group of people get together and fund 3 start up noobs (shhh or 2nd avatars shh). Then do the tests as mentioned above. With one sticking with pistol or opallo way past maxing, one upgrading as soon as maxed, and one sticking with non-sib weapons. It will cost a few peds, but the loot will mostly pay for it on low end weapons / low end mobs.

I thought of this also and would be happy to mentor 3-4 noobs with zero skills. They'd have to have no hunting skills, and be prepared to sweat. And do what I say :p. And be very active. :p And understand my insane obsession for controlling the experiment.
 
my insane obsession for controlling the experiment.

It seems that Stanley Milgram has an avatar in Entropia. ;)

On topic - there has been talk around having some sort of 'official' research group in Entropia. I think this is something we desperately need.
 
It seems that Stanley Milgram has an avatar in Entropia. ;)

On topic - there has been talk around having some sort of 'official' research group in Entropia. I think this is something we desperately need.

:wise:...one of the best ideas I've seen in a long time (well, except maybe the Skill Decay one :wtg:).
 
I've got to the point where HL15 was maxed not so long ago. So far however, shooting with HL15 is comparable to storing my PED on PA teleport.

I seem to do OK with lower weps still, so I wonder whether there's more to it all than meets the eye...

well put jimmy. i like the "more to it all than meets the eye" comment.

ma recommends we use guns at a certain level. the key word is RECOMMEND. I might be going on a tangent here but does ma have your best interest in mind when recommending when to use something? I don't think so. It cost you more in the end shooting no maxed guns.

Btw if yall going to do a test I think it should be same mob and same maturity to eliminate that variable. I think it matters just an idea.
 
well put jimmy. i like the "more to it all than meets the eye" comment.

ma recommends we use guns at a certain level. the key word is RECOMMEND. I might be going on a tangent here but does ma have your best interest in mind when recommending when to use something? I don't think so. It cost you more in the end shooting no maxed guns.

Btw if yall going to do a test I think it should be same mob and same maturity to eliminate that variable. I think it matters just an idea.


If limited to maturity, we would have to find a spawn of *only* youngs and one of *only* stalkers to even register a difference. Ambu land might be able to provide ambu youngs, but a very dense spawn of only stalkers (or any other maturity) is near impossible. It's possible to isolate youngs, but there's also the matter of not having the test take forever. (which would happen) I would also *not* want regen mobs to be included in a maturity isolation test. In short, sticking to one maturity only is going to be very tedious. It would be like trying to hunt ONLY big molisk - you can't, they're interspersed with maffoid, or with v low maturity molisk, or in the back of nowhere where there area spawn of three and you need to wait 10 minutes for the next one to spawn. Sticking to similar HP in the same mob class though is simpler, though it's damn hard to class what is 'similar' hp... atrax young mature/old all same hp, atrax alpha/Oa ~12-1430 (yes i could check entropedia) stalker 2340. Nice ideal but near impossible to achieve.
 
If limited to maturity, we would have to find a spawn of *only* youngs and one of *only* stalkers to even register a difference. Ambu land might be able to provide ambu youngs, but a very dense spawn of only stalkers (or any other maturity) is near impossible. It's possible to isolate youngs, but there's also the matter of not having the test take forever. (which would happen) I would also *not* want regen mobs to be included in a maturity isolation test. In short, sticking to one maturity only is going to be very tedious. It would be like trying to hunt ONLY big molisk - you can't, they're interspersed with maffoid, or with v low maturity molisk, or in the back of nowhere where there area spawn of three and you need to wait 10 minutes for the next one to spawn. Sticking to similar HP in the same mob class though is simpler, though it's damn hard to class what is 'similar' hp... atrax young mature/old all same hp, atrax alpha/Oa ~12-1430 (yes i could check entropedia) stalker 2340. Nice ideal but near impossible to achieve.

there still will be a variable there just my opinion. i know it isn't easy to isolate a strait maturity was just throwing the idea out there for accuracy in testing.:D
 
ma recommends we use guns at a certain level. the key word is RECOMMEND. I might be going on a tangent here but does ma have your best interest in mind when recommending when to use something? I don't think so. It cost you more in the end shooting no maxed guns.

Well the at the 'recommended' starting level you pretty much expect things not to be great as the gun is still unmaxed and inefficient. (as a result of my fondness for efficiency I don't think I've ever actually tried a sustained period of SIB hunting. So probably it means guaranteed ATH lol)

I was more commenting on the fact that just after a weapon is maxed (so outwardly looks as if its operating at maximum efficiency), it doesn't seem to produce good results.

Could also be what I'm hunting I suppose though, as I'm hunting bigger stuff to justify the markup on the gun and I've had some shocking runs on bigger mobs that I don't really seem to get on mobs that are traditionally considered my level (even though in some cases they're imo about the same difficulty).

The thing is I have found the same weapn vs same mob doesn't return consistent results for me

Same-weapon-same-mob + occasional mining seems to work OK for me.

Probably going to switch back to that and abandon these experiments with higher level weps soon, PED card will thank me I think :laugh:
 
To me, it's a question of whether you are aggressively "climbing the ladder" or not.
Most of the lesser L guns are not the ideal terminal weapon. Maxing a Breer M3 and deciding to stop there is not the way to go if you ultimately want some real firepower.
I took the path of aggressive climbing and moved up as soon as I could, and still do, even though at lvl 40 laser sniper I have a lot of choices, and takes a looonng time now.
 
Use the gun until It give no more SIB-If another gun is affordable and gives SIB go for it! If not, keep using the first gun until there is :)
Concise but hope it helped!
Frankenberry-NBK Legion
 
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