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why are things so expensive

Rocket192 said:
to be honest, MA has to do something drastic, fast, if they want to keep the dream alive. margins are just plummeting everywhere... too much output and not enough item/resource consumption.
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maybe too few take up all the resources without contributing a fair / equal amount while the rest pay to keep the lights on? maybe? possibly? don't know i just know there is nothing for most to reach for except more and more loss - no MU, no items, nothing until you get to maybe lvl 30+ mobs and have 10's of K's of ped to play with and no job to go to tomorrow.

as for item/resource consumption - maybe there are not enough up and coming players to consume the resources looted by the few to keep they "economy" moving. and of course the prices are fucking stupid - or do people really think "rich" people play this game lol - maybe a handful do but they are not rich because they are stupid.
 
scormxpn said:
so i see a major problem in this game and that is the greed of everyone fueled by low drop rates of items driving there prices up i hate the greed that makes it hard for me a man with a mental illness on a fixed income to afford to even play the game because just a few hours is costly just to repair my things no virtual item should ever be more than 100 usd because they all can be replicated infinitely eventual the governments of the world are going to ether tax game companies more or limit there cost on virtual goods so the average man can afford i thinks its stupid to waste 500 usd on an item like a shopkeeper pad or a property in game and the drop rates in this game suck so why play it when its difficult to play because of how the movement mechanics are the lack of a controller input for this game is a problem im hoping that the producers of this game decide to limit the prices an item can be listed for on the auction along with making a controller for this game and increase the drop rates on hard to get items like shopkeeper pods and all other items in the game along with limiting the amount of properties a player can own to like 5 or so and confiscate properties from players who have more than 5 and have been offline for more than 5 years. PS the secret to life is its a virtual reality machine called infinity that i helped create lol.
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Assuming your not joking around as you been here since 2018 -

this forum is dominated by a small number of players a lot of whom benefit from the issues you posted - i don't agree with some of what you said but i can tell you a lot of people on this forum will disagree with you as they do, or can, profit by the system as it is now (and how its always been).

If you think you can profit here - you wont unless you get very lucky and MA has "coded out" lucky from the game - now its all about having the best gear that mostly drops to those that already have the previous version of the "best" gear. sure you have chance at looting a rare token but good luck

so if you like grinding low level mobs then sure you can play and lose a few 100$ a month but if you want entertainment or to be a top player - just believe the hype and put all you $ in and pray your ass off.
 
MrFatBoy said:
maybe too few take up all the resources without contributing a fair / equal amount while the rest pay to keep the lights on? maybe? possibly? don't know i just know there is nothing for most to reach for except more and more loss - no MU, no items, nothing until you get to maybe lvl 30+ mobs and have 10's of K's of ped to play with and no job to go to tomorrow.

as for item/resource consumption - maybe there are not enough up and coming players to consume the resources looted by the few to keep they "economy" moving. and of course the prices are fucking stupid - or do people really think "rich" people play this game lol - maybe a handful do but they are not rich because they are stupid.
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ferrari for everyone :D *free
 
Rocket192 said:
to be honest, MA has to do something drastic, fast, if they want to keep the dream alive. margins are just plummeting everywhere... too much output and not enough item/resource consumption.
Click to expand...
I think this is what the community is hoping UE5 will be, an influx of players ready to spend $. But knowing the platform, im highly in doubt.
 
I'm pretty sure even MA are stunned at times how values are set and how much players are prepared to pay. I honestly believe the idea behind tokens for weapons was a good move. The problem is the players paid alot of ped to aquire those token weapons. They basically bought their own gun, for a lot more than they initially envisaged. That price mirrored recent looted weapons that didn't cost a ton of ped to aquire. Cause and effect.

Now we have a kind of stand-off situation where players want their investment back via sale. It cost me 'x', so that's the price, or i refuse to sell. You could argue they shouldn't have paid say 100k to buy their own weapon and teir it for even more ped. I would agree as I was not prepared to go down that road, plus the rare token issue... i like certainty, not I might get a rare.

I'd be pretty nervous holding considerable value in a weapon with a perceived sale price, in a market that everyone owns a ford escort (high efficiency), but wants to sell it at ferrari prices. It's not just 20 high efficency weapons is it, so its nothing special anymore. Some people do manage to find a buyer and good luck to them. Although I expect the ferrari shop is looking very ordinary these days.

Personally I choose to watch the impact of all this from the sidelines, I refuse to get sucked into; "you need 500k+ ped of gear to get 95% return bs" Not interested. I think alot of players will ultimately get seriously burned, and that's a real shame.

Play the game, or dont play the game. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. Makes me laugh when I read "you need to do this" posts. You don't "need" to do it, it's not food or shelter haha.

Enjoy it, if it makes you happy. Evertime I plan to login these days, finding the time is a pain, or I just happen to have better things to do. I must find a few hours soon.

Rick
 
Wow I didn't expect to see so many replies so soon lol thanks for all of your opinions sorry for any typos I just have one thing to say and that if I told my payee I spent 500usd on a game they'd make it harder on me because to people like them spending money on a like that on a game is crazy and yes I'm a big spender on the mmo I play I have spent at least 1k USD on each of 3 different mmo but this one it's like I have to spend 50usd to 100 USD a week just to repair things in game when I started this game it wasn't so bad for prices I spent 800ped on my estate in treasure Island City gold floor 5 apartment F I do have fun in this game but not as much fun as the mmo on Xbox I play every day on those games and I don't have to spend money to repair my stuff in those I not very good at keyboard and mouse games I play better with controller games I hope mindark makes a controller for this game that be cool id buy one lol but again thanks for all your replies and input.
 
Sulje said:
ferrari for everyone :D *free
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not sure if you are joking so if you were then this more a response to those that do reply like you did :


i am not saying that and is a typical response in this forum - ask for fairness people say you want it all for free.

And it usually comes from those that ARE getting everything replying with this condensing bullshit attitude.

What about those that looted an IMK or MM back in the day and printed TT Profits due to it unbalanced stats - for YEARSSS- but that's not getting something for free - right? So now they deserve another Wep that almost guarantees they loot the best shit - that's not "free" right? ok sure.

What about those that gained insane skills back in the day when there were all kinds of exploits - not free - hmmm ok

Heal bug, lava pools, the ring lol not free,

Redulite cap issue - not free!

What about slapping an 106 on an opalo and trapping spiders - that's not free? how many nice items were dropped like that pre V10 update pre loot 2.0

There are tons and tons of examples of people getting shit free over the years that puts them in position to move up faster and cheaper and now some play for free and profit massively- but some of them come and tell others that the game is not free so pay up and invest - lol hypocrisy and greed at its best

oh and let not forget about duplicating items, MA directly handing items to top players, the Land area ATHs, looting multiple UL items in a row, and on and on and on - all definitely 100% not free!

ask for fairness - you greedy fuckwads!

ohh yea - borrowing MA official items and getting a slap on the wrist instead of banned - DEFINATELY not FREE!!!

the yog issue - not free (dont recall if that was handled but likely they got away with it)

But hey i once get a pixie SGA mask so woot i am playing for freeeeeeeeeeee on that loot since whenever the fuck SGA was.

Free - :)
 
RickEngland said:
I'm pretty sure even MA are stunned at times how values are set and how much players are prepared to pay. I honestly believe the idea behind tokens for weapons was a good move. The problem is the players paid alot of ped to aquire those token weapons. They basically bought their own gun, for a lot more than they initially envisaged. That price mirrored recent looted weapons that didn't cost a ton of ped to aquire. Cause and effect.

Now we have a kind of stand-off situation where players want their investment back via sale. It cost me 'x', so that's the price, or i refuse to sell. You could argue they shouldn't have paid say 100k to buy their own weapon and teir it for even more ped. I would agree as I was not prepared to go down that road, plus the rare token issue... i like certainty, not I might get a rare.

I'd be pretty nervous holding considerable value in a weapon with a perceived sale price, in a market that everyone owns a ford escort (high efficiency), but wants to sell it at ferrari prices. It's not just 20 high efficency weapons is it, so its nothing special anymore. Some people do manage to find a buyer and good luck to them. Although I expect the ferrari shop is looking very ordinary these days.

Personally I choose to watch the impact of all this from the sidelines, I refuse to get sucked into; "you need 500k+ ped of gear to get 95% return bs" Not interested. I think alot of players will ultimately get seriously burned, and that's a real shame.

Play the game, or dont play the game. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. Makes me laugh when I read "you need to do this" posts. You don't "need" to do it, it's not food or shelter haha.

Enjoy it, if it makes you happy. Evertime I plan to login these days, finding the time is a pain, or I just happen to have better things to do. I must find a few hours soon.

Rick
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One things for sure, it costs MA a deposit everytime a certain player 'constantly' red marks my occasional posts. He thinks it's hilarious, but I can happily give it another few months.... which I now will... as I'm a very stubborn when it comes to arrogant bullies. Reminds me why I took a break. Looks like someone else is going to have to pay those MA electric bills. That's worth a smile. What is it...once a year to keep your account active? Not so bad... grins back at ya.
 
Just to help MA out £100 a month for Aug Sept Oct Nov and Dec-23. Is £500. I reckon you saved me a good £5k the last 3+ years. So kind of strangely.... errr thanks Mr red marker. I won't back down.
 
Aqua Frost Star said:
I think this is what the community is hoping UE5 will be, an influx of players ready to spend $. But knowing the platform, im highly in doubt.
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profits in EU via professions are largely a ponzi scheme like any other capital market system. Most profits are made when cash flow supply is net positive month over month because new players/investors are putting money into a fixed ecosystem.

this is slightly different with EU because MA can dillute equipment value at will with broker refills, etc... but materials and output markup which leads to profit margins will shrink exponentially without new cash flow (players) coming in to expand disposable ped on the bottom end. EU economy is extremely top-heavy at the moment... 8-10 mod nano users can overfarm the entire consumption base day to day.

MA will never make changes which harm turnover. so turnover will only increase over time on a per capita basis. when profit margins sink to near-zero for the top 10% of players, then people start to sell high end gear and don't reinvest that money into new gear. afterall, there's no upgrade beyond mod nano, so if that isn't owrking for you nothing will.

this is a big dilemma for MA to tackle because players want to be able to make money.. in loot 1.0 you could best the house... in loot 2.0 all profit must come from other players, which is fine so long as your playerbase and their consumption doesn't contract for a meaningful amount of time. afterall, what good is pulling a bp110 or a imk2 TWEN if the most cash-rich person in EU only has 50-60k peds to throw around. When people stop wanting item trades you have a problem.

tl;dr: equipment values die when playerbase inflows/otflows declines month over month because that means profit margins are negative or flat. I'm not an expert, but i do this professionally and MA has an economic problem that they MUST address if the playerbase and their wallets do not fatten, and soon.Carrot at the end of the stick can only get so small before efforts are worthless.
 
Most expensive items sold in EU! <- click the link Last edited: Jun 29, 2011

compare the prices to todays prices and you figure out that "top items" allways had the range of 200K + ped this list is from 2007

there are many more examples on the web, if you´r not shure about a price on something ask google he knows the game well

mindark is aware of it and beleave me or not we all want the prices to go up not down on ul items
imagine everyone runns with a super effective setup, crafters wont sell anything,miners wont sell anything, hunters wont sell anything

also pulling out your visa/mastercard/wallet , spending 200 300 400 500K on a setup wont bring you profit, you do the profit by your own decision
you also need to combine stuff, its not like hey i did spend 500K on a setup now i print peds what ever i do.
you can print with 10 ped you can print with 500K.

we only tend to overreact because its "real money"
if you want something go fight for it, dont try to change the value.

people who know me , know i did start as a sweater then i figuret its boring as Fu...
then i did hang around @ the rig, waiting on the box
then i did dominate the rig asking others to wait on the box
then i did start trading,
people did hate me for trading,
then i did start hunting figuret how loot works, what to take care of , when to sell ,what to keep and wait
now i own a very efficient setup
did some mining
when i had to much of the game i did take a brake, came back even stronger
gathered funds in rl to depo,payed out a lot of cash too
teached people how to play,shared my infos i gathered out of my own money for others who dont got the money
made enemys and friends on my road, met people who agree and disagree

i´m in the greens, but why ? because i didnt give up on a value, i didnt give up only because i cant be a messi or evey or lunchbox or what ever.
it is a game , yes , but this game is part of my live, a game that did educate me
while i was trying to get good in this game over the years i improved my real live with the stuff i learned in here
for me a ferrari is just a ferrari
but the feeling of playing my avatar in a full shadow,with super efficient weapons/rings got no price, its a dream that came true because i worked hard for it.
the awesome part is that i am able to sell my dream for money when i need it, any time

adapt and improve

did hit my goal, next goal pls.

there are many, many others who feel same about entropia people who work for theyr dreams,people who did put a lot of money into this game, people who dont spend theyr money in a nightclub, rather put it in here and have a good time with theyr friends.
we also need to talk about the good things in the game too.
examples like above.. this is what makes entropia unique
its playerbase, everyone who influenced and shocked the game.
 
Rocket192 said:
profits in EU via professions are largely a ponzi scheme like any other capital market system.
Click to expand...
Man, this is the first time that i agree with you 100% on the "mechanics" (but not on the legal implications)

TT-los trasnfering via MU is the base of the game. Who does not understand that Entropia is based on "extracting mu" from professions is in teh wrong place.

Ponzi is when someone pays old investor in a pyramid scheme inducing new ones to believe they can do it too

it is not the case of EU, MA CLEARLY explain in the in-famous 2017 report that ALL PLAYER LOOSE TO THE HOUSE (in the long term).
anyone that thinks "i can outsmart the random generator" is living a false proposition that will lead to delusion.

Control MU spent, look for MU in loot, and also a carabok hunter on TT pistol can earn some pec or at least skill for free.

The Myth "IF i had THAT special item i would buy a Lambo off game" is simply a myth... that rise FOMO and fuels inflation.

what i say is "if i had JBK or Yoda or Messi or Eve "Skill point pool" i could look for opportunities in more places" .... and work to have more Skill Point Pool.
who thinks that success is money based greatly undervalues the attitude, study, experiements, undisclosed losses and hard work to recoup of large cycle ppl... 1m ped monthly turnover cost 2000 - 3000 EUR to a "big boy" as a baseline risk.

it is MANY "vixen gears" to sell to get 2k EUR back ...
 
Most of the things have become several times (sometimes ten times) more accessible in recent years. The game has become much cheaper and more accessible.
I can advise the author to play at his level. You can fully play even without a deposit. There will always be players, richer than you - the game is a projection of RL.
A person writes he hates greed, but he wants to confiscate something forcibly. In general, it was possible not to read or comment on further.
 
jambon said:
It's frustrating as other games have managed to perfect the micro payment formula while keeping the game very inclusive for players of all budgets. But EU has chosen to stagnate with flawed economic design that's geared towards wealthier players and pushing people to always up their ante. But they simply can't change now, too much is at stake.

Maybe this will change with the unreal update... But I wouldn't hold your breath lol
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I'm sorry - what? perfect micro payment formula? LIke what? Diablo Immortal?

Yeah - go ahead and try to get ANY value back from those games once you've had enough.
 
bunch of folks will be not so happy when new game engine requires max items in storage to stop at 200 and rest will be TTed automatically on logout.
 
scormxpn said:
so i see a major problem in this game and that is the greed of everyone fueled by low drop rates of items driving there prices up i hate the greed that makes it hard for me a man with a mental illness on a fixed income to afford to even play the game because just a few hours is costly just to repair my things no virtual item should ever be more than 100 usd because they all can be replicated infinitely eventual the governments of the world are going to ether tax game companies more or limit there cost on virtual goods so the average man can afford i thinks its stupid to waste 500 usd on an item like a shopkeeper pad or a property in game and the drop rates in this game suck so why play it when its difficult to play because of how the movement mechanics are the lack of a controller input for this game is a problem im hoping that the producers of this game decide to limit the prices an item can be listed for on the auction along with making a controller for this game and increase the drop rates on hard to get items like shopkeeper pods and all other items in the game along with limiting the amount of properties a player can own to like 5 or so and confiscate properties from players who have more than 5 and have been offline for more than 5 years. PS the secret to life is its a virtual reality machine called infinity that i helped create lol.
Click to expand...

Ok, now go and cry on casinos because you cant play the game as its too expensive. Than go and cry about Bora-Bora because holiday cost a lot there. And ofc dont forget to cry at a Ferrari salon because their cars are expensiver than a Dacia.
 
Msturlese said:
Ponzi is when someone pays old investor in a pyramid scheme inducing new ones to believe they can do it too
Click to expand...

"bro just trust me you just need 350 dps, 85+ eff and high looter levels and you can be just like me."

What if i looter functioned as a PVP element pulling from the "bonus" pool than funds 2.5-5% of the playerbase TT returns?

carrot on the stick if you can't catch up to the other players you are handicapped. and that is paid to the top players at the expense of the lower players. and that bonus pool is funded via dumb things like shots wasted in pvp, non-SIB hunting, and other wasteful activity which general is performed by who - oh the newer players.

ponzi scheme was a poor choice of words, but elements exists nontheless. shrinking playerbase = declining bonus pool which disproportionately affects TT of certain players more than others.

on and on it goes. game shrinks, margins get crushed, bigger players start trying to eat from each other, then gear sales start.

meta needs to be shaken up, and fast. loot 1.0 avoided this by allowing TT profits if you met a certain criteria. All of these leads to a big problem with how you value "items and equipment" and creates a lot of volatility as such. When the game is booming, item values will go to absurd levels never thought possible. when the game is in slumber mode due to macroeconomic conditions the devs can't do anything about, people start getting desperate to offload and finding a "ped offer" for anything becomes impossible.
 
It's something of a fundamental issue in the game. Compared to other games, it's just not worth the money for "thing that looks cool" or "thing that gives minor advantage". I see this when I spot avatars with a zillion buffs turned on and think REALLY??? Is it REALLY worth the cost of all those minor buffs.

Maybe I'm naive in that regard but case in point pets with decent buffs... SO much expense to get them to the point they give that buff... would it ever really pay off?

Wistrel
 
Hego Damask said:
Ok, now go and cry on casinos because you cant play the game as its too expensive. Than go and cry about Bora-Bora because holiday cost a lot there. And ofc dont forget to cry at a Ferrari salon because their cars are expensiver than a Dacia.
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Going to casinos and vacations is overrated who needs them really the world is corrupted anyways greedy and glutenous people control everything cause and demand is just an excuse they use to increase prices nothing is ever worth the price you pay to get it and just because one man wants to line his pockets with more money they others have to increase their prices to just keep up with that man just wait until the day I die then when I come back from the grave will conquer the world to remove the injustice and oppression from the world so no man woman and child has to suffer because they don't have the money to survive until then i am helpless to witness the greed of the world destroy innocent lives. If people can make a difference in a game then we can do it in real life I do appreciate the people with only increase the amount a little more than the value of the items this game needs more people who aren't looking to make a profit on their stuff because it's redundant to fork over 500usd for one item people just like to go gold digging and only suckers pay their prices lol.
 
All gear will cost nothing and everyone will be happy.
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$500 USD on this game is nothing mate. Get with the program.

(P.S. - punctuation)
 
Here is the thing it dosen't really work - There are more high valued items than theres's people willing to use them our economy is kinda broken. And the reason for that is the way that the game works. Not only that items are expensive but most of the game activities hunting and mining cost insane amount of ped and while you can improove those odds with higher eff weapons and proper skills people still loose money while doing those activities. If it was up to me people would be allowed to break even loot from hunting such as weapons and armor would be rare and that will allow gear to keep it's value. If that was the case more players would come play the game and stay instead trying loosing a lot of $ and leaving till the next group comes along. That will also bring more players with big wallets who want to get to endgame quicker and are willing to spend a lot of $ to save time . This works in many games take EVE online for examples players start the same way some are not willing to train skills for long periods of time or grind to get fancy thing instead they use their credit cards and there are a lot more ppl playing than theres Entropia players. WHy can't we have something similar here ? Time for loot 3.0 expecially with Unreal engine 5 atract new players and make shure you keep them not a small portion with adiction to gambling but most of them that show intrest in the game . As it is right now players show up they get scared of how much things cost they put some $ they loose them and they leave . Allow them to hunt all they want they won't get rich from it but won't get furstrated and leave like the people before them and naturally sooner or later they will also want to buy something better with their $ or jump to the end game content and spend big $
 
@DRAGUNOV44
MA balance account tells the full story. PED SENIORAGE IS TOP INCOME.
to reduce "activity tax" need more cycle and it comes with more players
i mean now average TT loss is 2%
reducing this to 0.5% and keep the same amount of income to MA needs jsut 4x actual playerbase.
a 99.5% return makes people happy
of course Human greed will not allow this (ma and PP see more player want more USD)
but let's say 10x p'layer base can be 99.5% tt return for sure with dobule the money for MA and PP
and the NEW DEAL would bring inside a plethora of new players.

it is just a meter of choice.

if i was MA i would reduce my rake to 0.5% immediately and allow people flow from other games.
this is done via "when you bored you can sell all"

loot 3.0 can just be "reduce tax of loot 2.0 for 2 year and see what happen".

i am pretty sure that server would collapese for excess of activity :)
 
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Can you blame me ? I want more people to play the game and enjoy it i'm here since 2007 an i've seen the players come and go I'm one of the few people that don't spend massive ammount of ped and i keep saving . Do i enjoy my Entropia lifestyle ?- no i'd rather hunt 24/7 but it can't happen the way the game is built the barrier is prety high - which automatically exclude most of the players from Eastern European countries Russia etc. I do realise that life is not fair and that some people are rich some are poor ?- thats a fact of Life . But it also affects the playerbase and this has been going for 20 years - What is MA doing to keep those people playing ? WHat do you think will happen if other similar games show on the market and they offer the same thing as entropia except people won't be prevented from doing all the game has to offer with the ability to invest and earn but alows those who can't spend that much to enjoy it aswel. I'm one of the few players that keeps going i started from scratch when i was still in school i didn't have a credit card back then and i never put a single cent not because the game is loads of fun but because i'm stuborn and i count it is a challange . I can afford playing game on a small scale if i wanted to put money in but not spend like some folks 500-1000$ a month to enjoy it. And since this is still a gray area and theres no Virtual Property law to regulate this if MA shutdown one day all you will get back is TT Value of your items :) . And i still believe that if game had more stable playerbase and lower barrier MA would also make more money! Also sometimes Unreal Engine 5 is used as an excuse we keep hearing how the game will be balanced and issues adressed once that happens but that's 2 years away what do we do until then ?
 
Fixing the economy does not really have to wait for UE5.

And it is the most annoying thing for a long time with Entropia.

It is very easy to point out exactly where the "leaks" in the economy are and possible solutions.

But there is no will to make any changes as the way it is set up protect the top guns and MA at the same time.

If nothing is needed no markup is genereted

If no markup is generated user needs more money to play faster...
 
Ivo Jahrumble said:
Fixing the economy does not really have to wait for UE5.

And it is the most annoying thing for a long time with Entropia.

It is very easy to point out exactly where the "leaks" in the economy are and possible solutions.

But there is no will to make any changes as the way it is set up protect the top guns and MA at the same time.

If nothing is needed no markup is genereted

If no markup is generated user needs more money to play faster...
Click to expand...

If items are rare and you actually need them to go hunt on higher levels they are going to be needed if players need them they have to buy them and end up spending $ if not they can keep low level hunts and grind
 
PreyNaika said:
Most expensive items sold in EU! <- click the link Last edited: Jun 29, 2011

compare the prices to todays prices and you figure out that "top items" allways had the range of 200K + ped this list is from 2007
Click to expand...
comparing it then to the us inflation since 2007 means prices should have went up about 50%
some currencies fare better compared to the $ and players have grown in age and realworld capital since starting this game
it makes perfect sense to have an ever increasing price ceiling as players get more wealthy competing for the top of the line gear and respectively all gear stages leading up to this
dont argue for less mu , its the one thing allowing you to profit and advance in this game - you certainly wont profit on tt returns
 
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