Question: Why is AFK hunting bad? Assuming it does not interfere with another player's play.

[Dibbler]

If I log in and find a game that is mostly run by bots hunting 24 / 7 , I would withdraw and terminate the whole crap ,
this was a social game when I started not a hunt for 100,01 mu crap loot .
I hunt some hours now and then just for fun , If someone thinks running a bot doing the hunt is good for the game ,I would recomend MA to make a button where you put 100 K ammo in and press loot once and get instant loot and save time

This is what i would fear from botting becoming the norm.

Also i think this is first ever game i played where players defend botting.

By botting i not talking about Sweatflix (part afk), but program to move to location, hunt etc - more complex.

If you search on youtube, there is a vid of a test "bot" prog dated jan 2021, i did post here from concern but was deleted by mods. I found from a few google searches, quite easy to find.

 

[Sirhc]

Unless MA implements some type of hunting/mining macro then its against the rules. I've seen people use some pretty advanced macros in EU in hunting and mining. I've also seen people using multiple accounts to Smurf for their main account. It's a far cry from auto-clicking FAPs in acid pools, scanner skilling, and crafting machines back in the day that were also against the rules.

You make it sound like people only bot because why spend "endless hours to grind away your life in this fuckery?" So why even play EU if you think it's "fuckery"? Botting just like auto-clickers of the past gain an unfair advantage over people who actually play EU. There is money involved so people will have some very strong emotions and opinions in regards to cheating. MA has implemented some auto-clicking features so those are now within the rules of the game that weren't there in the past.

This game is RCE so its always about the money and with that it can sprout people with questionable ethics in terms of play. If botting wasn't profitable in some way it wouldn't be worth the risk and we wouldn't see so many popping up. There are avatars to this day that profit consistently because they played in the "grey" areas of the past and took advantage of game play weakness and MA's slow to react response to cheating.

I've played games full of bots and it wasn't fun. If EU turns into a game where you can only be competitive if you play in the "grey" area of the rules and have to use multiple accounts and bots to pilfer PEDs from the system then my days will be numbered. There are other games and better ways to spend my money.

 

[True Juan]

Mindark created all conditions for simple auto clicking. (No need for any bots)

Step 1: Loot 2.0 so no one can do more than 99% return.

Step 2: Create mechanism where all you need for interaction is one button. F F F F

Step 3: Create items with lifesteal. Rings, amps , etc.

DONE

Don't hate the players when MA did everything in their power to make this possible.

Just an example of what MA made possible creating F F F world - picture below:
How do you ban this? Item from Aliexpress

 

[Gopher]

Mindark created all conditions for simple auto clicking. (No need for any bots)

Step 1: Loot 2.0 so no one can do more than 99% return.

Step 2: Create mechanism where all you need for interaction is one button. F F F F

Step 3: Create items with lifesteal. Rings, amps , etc.

DONE

Don't hate the players when MA did everything in their power to make this possible.

Just an example of what MA made possible creating F F F world - picture below:
How do you ban this? Item from Aliexpress

You ban this by having officials pm/stand next to the ppl suspected of afk hunting, if no response/wave/reaction, ban time. Or they can make/do something so that there is a very small/no chance of false banning since some ppl might not check pms. Theres a bunch of ways to check if someone is afk or not.

 

[True Juan]

You ban this by having officials pm/stand next to the ppl suspected of afk hunting, if no response/wave/reaction, ban time. Or they can make/do something so that there is a very small/no chance of false banning since some ppl might not check pms. Theres a bunch of ways to check if someone is afk or not.

You want to make it mandatory for players to speak to MA officials or they get banned? Its not that simple.
People with money would sue MA. Im not sure how it ended with HUNTERZ but he was banned for botting like 15 years ago, and AFAIK he sued MA and I believe it was settled with his items being sold on auction and he got his money, but was permanently banned - as a warning to others. (Someone could maybe clarify - it was a long time ago and the case wasnt too clear).

 

[Gopher]

You want to make it mandatory for players to speak to MA officials or they get banned? Its not that simple.
People with money would sue MA. Im not sure how it ended with HUNTERZ but he was banned for botting like 15 years ago, and AFAIK he sued MA and I believe it was settled with his items being sold on auction and he got his money, but was permanently banned - as a warning to others. (Someone could maybe clarify - it was a long time ago and the case wasnt too clear).

Never said anything about it being mandatory to speak to MA officials, just spitballing ideas since there are a ton of ways to check if a player is afk or not, and I admit that way isn't as effective as others. I was just listing ideas that could be improved upon or thought about.

 

[True Juan]

There was botting in the past, but most AFK hunting started AFTER Mindark created F F F system and LIFESTEAL.
Add SOLO instances with fast mob respawns in the same place or mobs with HIGH aggro, and this is what you get.
This is Mindarks creation.

And now after you give all this CANDY to a CHILD you tell them, DONT EAT IT or else...

 

[DavinFelth]

same reason MA says we can't sell our account... because they say so. I don't like people doing things that aren't allowed when I follow the rules....

side note, the thought always blew my mind because I just spend money in this game... the idea of some noob avatar getting a set up for 101% return 24/7 sounds impossible. So a bot would just be a huge money dump. Maybe a good way at laundering money? I dunno. Seems like an awful idea.

 

[Deemer]

same reason MA says we can't sell our account... because they say so. I don't like people doing things that aren't allowed when I follow the rules....

side note, the thought always blew my mind because I just spend money in this game... the idea of some noob avatar getting a set up for 101% return 24/7 sounds impossible. So a bot would just be a huge money dump. Maybe a good way at laundering money? I dunno. Seems like an awful idea.

And why only a few avatars have this opportunity now that they grind milions ped for a month and feel inviolable because of their big bankroll. Why should everyone else feel threatened by bans?

The best option is automatic hunting and to collapse the whole economy to 100.01%.

I don't see any sense in a 24-hour bot selling me $20-50k weapons at the same time, while breaking the entire markup from normal items in the game to 101%.

Auto hunting is the best solution... put a 10k ped in your avatar today and until you come across a rare loot... isn't that what the "Authorities" in the game are doing right now?

 

[Msturlese]

You ban this by having officials pm/stand next to the ppl suspected of afk hunting, if no response/wave/reaction, ban time. Or they can make/do something so that there is a very small/no chance of false banning since some ppl might not check pms. Theres a bunch of ways to check if someone is afk or not.

So i am doing my business and not only Shrapnel beggars, newcomers that annoy for some weird question, aggressive dumbass that PM This is my spot, get TF out of here
i need also someone PMing "are you a bot?"
i will macro on a key "yeah i am the symbian of yr mom in disguise" ...... PLS
the problem is not a player AFK

the Sandking "suspect bots" were dressed in the most antieconomic setup. i think they were "experiments" and not farming bots.
they are training for events?
we will see in Easter mayhem, first event where there is a window of profitability with boxes and tokens. (MU, no effect on MA return, ka-ching for 2% decay)
will they get into a LA event to try to get a HSL reward? if i put 50 bot at LA 40 chances that i get the highest loot are favorable.... (again LA owner money, no cares from MA side)
think bigger... computers are a scalable business.
we are just lucky that game makes negative returns, otherwise we would have 500 minibot in camp icarus made by goldsellers.

we already have goldseller attitudes, now all the player in search of MU are on Nextisland, depending on the level they hunt for various sinew, gorgond waves and such, wherever there is a stream of MU there is a bunch of active farmers. if i shot with 1 rifle its ok, if i shot with 10 it is not.

as per the social part.... due to the money involved this is a single player game, we team just for targets we cant afford.
we say GZ to a HOF and we think "this Hof took me off a chance to get the same" ... it is not a toxic community, player
are helpful, it is a toxic game, because i know since the beginning that to gain 1000 ped i need to take 1020 off YOU.
it is a war, and war is hell.

 

[Deemer]

as per the social part.... due to the money involved this is a single player game, we team just for targets we cant afford.
we say GZ to a HOF and we think "this Hof took me off a chance to get the same" ... it is not a toxic community, player
are helpful, it is a toxic game, because i know since the beginning that to gain 1000 ped i need to take 1020 off YOU.
it is a war, and war is hell.

YAY, be careful what you say, they're going to excommunicate you from the Pink Brigade.

 

[MeiGDLing]

Sucks for legit players, they end up eclipsing any progress you can make skill wise, tiering their gear faster, more loot events to farm markup/capped resources why should it be allowed to hunt while not even present at keyboard, at the end of the day it's a game if you don't enjoy playing then don't play no one has a gun to your head and if you don't enjoy playing but continue to do so cus you are making profit then obviously it comes back to you having that unfair advantage. Am I the only one who actually likes just playing the game? it doesn't stop at F macro that is just it's simplest form, think about legit botters who continue to play, (like the miner we all know and love (rediculous his botting is so old and well known at this point that everyone knows who i mean yet he still gets to play uninterupted).)
I get its a grey area and hard to enforce and if you wanna bind a set of actions to save your fingers while you hunt I don't really care at all but would like MA to take a concrete stance one way or the other and show they are actually doing things to tackle botters/afk players/multi accounters like some public announcement don't have to mention specific names of anyone just like x people warned/x people banned, this is where we draw the line etc. Because if you just leave it people continue to push boundaires and whether it's in your face or not it does affect you.

 

[girtsn]

we will see in Easter mayhem, first event where there is a window of profitability with boxes and tokens. (MU, no effect on MA return, ka-ching for 2% decay)

We are already seeing huge action since Helloween Mayhem, there were very observable cases of 24/7 in both, and events/instances even before that.
the new format of seasonal Mayhems is escalating this 24/7 bots issue a lot
1. they have simple MU in form of tokens and boxes, with items currently selling for 300k+ for tthe first ones who can get enough tokens - with the ones able to do 24/7 with biggest dps as frontrunners
2. they are instances, where spawn is not an issue + noone can really observe for silly actions of automation / be annoyed about bot taking their mobs

Overall, sure MA made it very easy with F to automate. without much scripting needed, then made it worse with instances
Yet what we are able to observe besides 24/7 are script mistakes in re-entering the instances / mob finding in case stuck. Same goes for repairing and throwing stuff in TT, automation scripting is most welcome and likely done.
But then MA made it much worse with these kind of instance seasonal events
In my opinion, affecting instance time / MU loot / tt return after some reasonable time per day (10h?), with clear rules on how much the limit is set to is the only reasonable way to balance this. Prventing scripting by user reports / observing user software is a road to nowhere.
P.S.
its funny to observe that noone of the top turnovers is saying anything on topic while usually being so concerned about the bad percepttions of the game. cat, tongue, anyone?

 

[Fanan]

Maybe MA already implemented a way where players that are really paying attention and playing the game have an advantage return wise compared with those completely hunting AFK... It's called using a finisher and consequently increasing your DPP, simple as that. No?

 

[Msturlese]

@ Fanan.... LP100 , BP70, bp110 bp130 lp120 new blade, unique items
They got TOP dpp .... what do you use to increase DPP over that? a Marco pistol borrowed from an officer?
i agree with Girts. Limiting Mayhem to 10 hours per day per user can be a "level the field" idea
who needs to play more than 10 hours can do dailies....

 

[mastermesh]

Maybe MA already implemented a way where players that are really paying attention and playing the game have an advantage

Just add a captcha that acts as a mini game every 15 minutes or so. If you don't pass it you get logged off.

 

[helena]

I dont have any problem with people afk hunting since like it have been sayd, ma made everything possible for this to happen and they just feed the lootpool.

But i have a problem for ma now doing everything possible for bots winning events.

Just have a look on mayhem top 3 hunters that were hunting 24/24 7/7 for full 5 weeks... This is a competition killer, a game killer, and will lead game in a really bad direction

 

[The Abomb]

What is the alternative, sitting here for endless hours to grind away your life in this fuckery?

You mean playing legit and enjoying the game. How you are supposed to play ALL games.

Outside of an afk player disturbing another person's gameplay....how does AFK hunting/botting/macro hunting negatively affect the game and/or you(players)?

Entropia Universe is now a botting game (AFK hunters). You can look at the Top 100 list and most of them are botters and more joining everyday. Are there some legit players on there? Sure but less and less over time and this will only get worse.

It doesn't matter if you use a macro to AFK it's botting. You are automating gameplay and are no different than an Autoclicker back in the old game. You are stealing from legit players. Key word stealing. You can finish more missions, grind and win events, gain more skills, better returns and chance for rare items. You are stealing from the players and hurting the economy for legit players. These are the facts.

It's like being in a bodybuilding competition and you are the only natural one there. You can't compete as the competition can train harder, longer and gain more than you ever can. So you are faced with a choice. Do what they are doing to be competitive or quit.

There will be a tipping point here in Entropia as well (maybe already happened) As players are faced with that same choice. Cheat using AFK hunting in order to compete in an RCE economy or QUIT. Which creates more of the problem. More people will AFK/Bot to stay competitive and legit players will Quit leaving even more AFK/Botters in game. Till almost the entirety of hunters are AFK/Botters. It will then come down too who can AFK/Bot the best and that is a game that most won't want to compete in or play.

So while MA has made some good changes in recent years, we have to seriously worry about it's future in this regard. MA did make the bad decisions to bring about the F interact key, life steal, auto loot etc to supply botters. MA likely did this though to appease grinders. However it doesn't have a good long term model unless the botters stay since all that is left is AFK/Botters.

If you really want to fix the game, well remove next target and interact key and have more in game immersion where you have to actually target the mobs and play the game (that would be good for Unreal engine 5). I doubt this fix will happen anytime soon though and goes against the model of the chosen people influencing MA on their decisions. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many, especially when MONEY is involved.

It's near impossible to be a serious hunter though without AFK/Botting. You can't compete, so the choice is yours to whether you join them or leave. No game that has stood the test of time has ever ignored AFK/Botting(Cheating) issues for the community as it destroys the game and playerbase. People just want a fair competition and this game is the least competitive game I have ever played. Will be interesting how this pans out. I wish MA and the players that stay the best of luck though.

 

[Xavier Target]

Meh, MA is in it to profit, not for all the players to profit, so they will tweak the game to rob the bots of Ped the more numerous they become... The majority must lose for MA to pay the bills, if the majority is bots, then the bots must lose.... So sure bot it up, but don't be surprised if the rules change and your bot loses tons of ped.....

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Low traffic sites/houses always accept bots to help the turnaround and charge the "rake" of those bots. In Entropia especially since those very well known high tier 24/7bots are the ones who deposit big time to keep MA afloat (irrelevant if the bot profit or not, they are the ones doing big deposits). As in RL those guys have more opinion power near MA as they are the ones who deposit more, so MA values them more than little or no depositors. This is clear by the amount of catering to those players desires along the years. i.e. changing tier system rules, create EP bps, among other changes.

If the game grows its playerbase and the game becomes a high traffic house, MA will immediatly change its stance on botting to protect the integrity of the game for the big masses. Its no different in many other sites.

As it stands they are backed against the wall by the big depositors. They own the game. If they stop botting and depositing the game dies as it stands at the moment.

One of the problems is that there is no end game for those guys. They need to play lower stakes than they would like and they have a surplus of ped in account to cycle. This with the stupid mechanics of hit F plus 15 years of grind made them insensible to playing the game in any other form than as a grind X for outcome Y.

Im not counting on MA to throw the bots under bus for now unfortunatly. I am one of those who plays less and less cause the conditions are not of playing a game at the moment. We could very well just have a button to cycle X amount of ped and get Y amount of loot. It would save us all a lot of time and grinding pain by the way things are going.

To be really honest with this low population in game, the turnaround created by legit players would not be enough for MA to survive right now. What would you do if you were in MA shoes in these conditions?

I dont aprove of botting but I understand why MA allows it for the time being.

 

[Gopher]

Low traffic sites/houses always accept bots to help the turnaround and charge the "rake" of those bots. In Entropia especially since those very well known high tier 24/7bots are the ones who deposit big time to keep MA afloat (irrelevant if the bot profit or not, they are the ones doing big deposits). As in RL those guys have more opinion power near MA as they are the ones who deposit more, so MA values them more than little or no depositors. This is clear by the amount of catering to those players desires along the years. i.e. changing tier system rules, create EP bps, among other changes.

If the game grows its playerbase and the game becomes a high traffic house, MA will immediatly change its stance on botting to protect the integrity of the game for the big masses. Its no different in many other sites.

As it stands they are backed against the wall by the big depositors. They own the game. If they stop botting and depositing the game dies as it stands at the moment.

One of the problems is that there is no end game for those guys. They need to play lower stakes than they would like and they have a surplus of ped in account to cycle. This with the stupid mechanics of hit F plus 15 years of grind made them insensible to playing the game in any other form than as a grind X for outcome Y.

Im not counting on MA to throw the bots under bus for now unfortunatly. I am one of those who plays less and less cause the conditions are not of playing a game at the moment. We could very well just have a button to cycle X amount of ped and get Y amount of loot. It would save us all a lot of time and grinding pain by the way things are going.

To be really honest with this low population in game, the turnaround created by legit players would not be enough for MA to survive right now. What would you do if you were in MA shoes in these conditions?

I dont aprove of botting but I understand why MA allows it for the time being.

First, how do you know these big-time botters are depositing? Second, banning these bots won't kill the game. If they do deposit, they withdraw way more than they deposited after a while.

 

[ledja]

First, how do you know these big-time botters are depositing? Second, banning these bots won't kill the game. If they do deposit, they withdraw way more than they deposited after a while.

Even if that is true, in the eyes of mindark why does it matter? They’re not pulling profit out of TT - its all coming from MU through other players. Infact, bots that cycle nonstop are going to be losing TT markedly more than someone who hunts here and there. More cycling is ALWAYS what mindark wants. I presume this is why they make it easier and easier to hunt mindlessly

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

First, how do you know these big-time botters are depositing? Second, banning these bots won't kill the game. If they do deposit, they withdraw way more than they deposited after a while.

Just check who is pulling all the rings from strongboxes. How do you open 1000 strongbox without depositing?

The point you are missing is that these guys keep on depositing to protect their own investment in game. IF you already invested 100k$ or more in game it would not really be in your best interest to let MA go bankrupt would it?

 

[Daniel Steps]

Just add a captcha that acts as a mini game every 15 minutes or so. If you don't pass it you get logged off.

Or open a conversation with a random player (perhaps even suggest a question or topic (can be in- or outgame topics)), maybe suggest some ingame activity together, ... stimulate the community somehow instead of all the grinding leading nowhere.

 

[wizz]

If I log in and find a game that is mostly run by bots hunting 24 / 7 , I would withdraw and terminate the whole crap ,
this was a social game when I started not a hunt for 100,01 mu crap loot .
I hunt some hours now and then just for fun , If someone thinks running a bot doing the hunt is good for the game ,I would recomend MA to make a button where you put 100 K ammo in and press loot once and get instant loot and save time

Exactly. It's the entropia generation gap.

We oldtimers "played" project entropia.
But Entropia Universe is a totally different game with totally different terms.
Attracting a totally different crowd who grew up with an automated phone in their hand, instead of having to remember and dial theirselves.

Is it bad? Probably not.
Do I like it? No.
It's just evolution I guess.

 

[Dibbler]

Perhaps a new app where players can afk hunt without even logging in, call it Combots or something.

 

[Tina Walther]

Perhaps a new app where players can afk hunt without even logging in, call it Combots or something.

And the revenue is split between mindark and shareholders of combot deeds?

 

[Dibbler]

And the revenue is split between mindark and shareholders of combot deeds?

Could be onto an idea there.

 

[INTERNUT]

I don't like this, not because I'm against someone that does afk hunting, but because I don't get it. Some of it anyway. I mean these bot scripts must be getting better all the time. For instance what happens if your AV sooner or later gets killed by a mob? What's to stop your AV taking a wrong turn that takes it on a long swim? Or you fall asleep and wake up hours later realising you've left your system on that's now very warm.

 

[psyche]

I don't understand all these AFK hunting discussion going on here.
What I also don't understand is why people would risk AFK Hunting.
I have never seen an AFK hunter, but I feel like if I did, I would totally take advantage of them.
Just dmg a mob to below half hp. Then drag it over to the AFK hunter. Then Profit!
The AFK hunter won't know what happened either. Since they were AFK. They'll just be super confused on why their return was so awful.
In local chat I would add "hey! stop shooting my mob." and just type that over and over again. That way I won't get in trouble with MA.
Just keep typing that as I take advantage of them. That is the risk they take when they decide to AFK hunt.
I actually hope this becomes more common.