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Why Macroing is bad and should receive a mass banwave

Shamshe said:
this is bad why?
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X Y Z players will play 24/7 when rest few hours, how is that fair ? How is fair having 3 people on same account ?
 
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[Moderated: Removed double posting]

Shamshe said:
I dont think u get what I mean. I am not asking for them to change the game. I am just asking MA to come out with a formal statement and do something about the people that got cought. Eg. the guy mining on arkadia with multiple reports. The fact that they dont do anything about botters or even people macroing is what makes it way worse then any change or not change to the game.
MA just needs to activly start punishing people that do, ban them for the duration of mayhem for example, and you will see 80+% of people stopping to macro.

I only see people talking about the game that needs to be changed. No we need MA to take their responsibility. They are ruining their own game without even noticing it.
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Sometimes no action is the action. (And if you were familiar with the TOS, they removed some important parts about macro use). Beating the drum about this isn't going to change anything except get their copy/pasta answer.

I'll state in a different way to give the example: In US law, you lose precedence by not enforcing the first time. Someone comes onto your property, with no trespassing signs, you opt not to prosecute. You will have difficulty enforcing it in the future.
 
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Alina said:
X Y Z players will play 24/7 when rest few hours, how is that fair ? How is fair account sharing to 3 people on same account ?
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I was of the asumption you meaned hire extra hunters as in extra dps with 3 different accounts. or them shooting for 1 person who pays for your ammo and gun and gets all the loot
 
This was a statement in another thread by an MA official regarding the topic.
(apologies if this was already shared)


The following is NOT MindArk official position, it is merely my interpretation of old rules, and some logic, in an attempt to help:

"Botting" is a difficult concept to grasp here. There are so many forms of "auto play" that botting has become a generic term for. Understand a few things though...

1. Third party software is NOT permitted, per the ToU.
2. Driver software that comes with your computer's connected devices that one may use to create macros is not considered third party software. I suspect this is a majority of "botting" we see today, thus the lack of platform reaction to it.
3. Any actual third party software that does some kind of autoplaying is VERY difficult to PROVE use of. Some players in the past have been banned, when this proof was obtained.
4. Staying out of player's instances does not encourage botting. I can watch an avatar running around clearly F spam auto hunting. Is it a macro? Is it a third party software? Is it a person watching a movie and not looking at the screen? Do they have a complex series of pulleys tapping his keyboard? I do not know, and thus, will likely do nothing unless an official position by the platform is issued. This has not happened, and the new camera system was designed with targeting of creatures clearly in mind.
5. An official can and will step in if any of the above kind of behaviors actively interferes with another player's gameplay.
 
Geo said:
This was a statement in another thread by an MA official regarding the topic.
(apologies if this was already shared)


The following is NOT MindArk official position, it is merely my interpretation of old rules, and some logic, in an attempt to help:

"Botting" is a difficult concept to grasp here. There are so many forms of "auto play" that botting has become a generic term for. Understand a few things though...

1. Third party software is NOT permitted, per the ToU.
2. Driver software that comes with your computer's connected devices that one may use to create macros is not considered third party software. I suspect this is a majority of "botting" we see today, thus the lack of platform reaction to it.
3. Any actual third party software that does some kind of autoplaying is VERY difficult to PROVE use of. Some players in the past have been banned, when this proof was obtained.
4. Staying out of player's instances does not encourage botting. I can watch an avatar running around clearly F spam auto hunting. Is it a macro? Is it a third party software? Is it a person watching a movie and not looking at the screen? Do they have a complex series of pulleys tapping his keyboard? I do not know, and thus, will likely do nothing unless an official position by the platform is issued. This has not happened, and the new camera system was designed with targeting of creatures clearly in mind.
5. An official can and will step in if any of the above kind of behaviors actively interferes with another player's gameplay.
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IMO they should just bite the bullet and consider hardware macros third party software (Cause technically it is, MA doesn't own your hardware driver software). Then, remove F key since TAB can also be used to select targets but doesnt automatically start shooting. In doing these 2 things, it would make spotting and banning automation of gameplay so much easier.
 
So, mindark have solved (reduced almost completely) this problem in another area of the game. Maybe they should just fully apply that solution.

As you may notice, nobody is complaining about AFK crafters for a very long time now...

I tried to do a mockup but honestly, PSP is pissing me off, so work with me for a second. Imagine just walking up to the Mindark Merry Mayhem Machine.

You depo, gear up, and warp to a global instance where there are just 143 avatars standing at red crafting machines, and click in.

Select your instance level, primary weapon, and a finisher if you like.

Select a healing tool and a percentage threshold. Maybe a "between mobs" or separate loop for short term buffs like resto chips and also select pills you want to stay on.

Blah Blah Blah you can imagine...

Click "Make Mayhem" and go make coffee. Come back every once in a while to pause and review your loot. We can even have auto-sell shrap and oils much like crafting. Etcetera ....

What do you think? I bet they can re-use existing stuff and maybe have this in place for easter '23 !
 
Atrax said:
So, mindark have solved (reduced almost completely) this problem in another area of the game. Maybe they should just fully apply that solution.

As you may notice, nobody is complaining about AFK crafters for a very long time now...

I tried to do a mockup but honestly, PSP is pissing me off, so work with me for a second. Imagine just walking up to the Mindark Merry Mayhem Machine.

You depo, gear up, and warp to a global instance where there are just 143 avatars standing at red crafting machines, and click in.

Select your instance level, primary weapon, and a finisher if you like.

Select a healing tool and a percentage threshold. Maybe a "between mobs" or separate loop for short term buffs like resto chips and also select pills you want to stay on.

Blah Blah Blah you can imagine...

Click "Make Mayhem" and go make coffee. Come back every once in a while to pause and review your loot. We can even have auto-sell shrap and oils much like crafting. Etcetera ....

What do you think? I bet they can re-use existing stuff and maybe have this in place for easter '23 !
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A mobile version like this would be nice tbh

like autoquest or whatever that phone game is called that is the same idea
 
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infamousH4 said:
seeing how most players are pro-macro usage, i should just assume thats who all is left playing, most of legit players probably left the game because of how unfair this game has become. so ima go around erase all my posts and comments on most topics because i really dont wanna be the only one who give a damn about legit gameplay.
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i know lots of legit players, who don't care that much either way

most of the time, botting is just a faster way to go broke. botting doesn't magically increase their TT return. in a lot of ways, i would pity the avatar for whom 90%+ of play was botting. they're not taking anything away from me.
 
messi91 said:
Sweat is infinite in this game.It only eats your time.
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yes and i guess in some sense this is one of only a handful of ways that botters could really be said to be negatively impacting the game: there's no question that sweating is drudgery well-suited for afk botting....but that does degrade the value of the people who put in "real time"
 
I half agree. One bots are not stand alone you much watch it or it will not work all the time.
Yes sweating bots are not good. I feel your pain.
hunting bots. Why not. Its all money to MA.
A bot wont help you win. You can chase the rainbow but it will just move on you.
 
jwestonmoss said:
yes and i guess in some sense this is one of only a handful of ways that botters could really be said to be negatively impacting the game: there's no question that sweating is drudgery well-suited for afk botting....but that does degrade the value of the people who put in "real time"
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This 100% does degrade the value of other peoples time. Would you rather be able to sell sweat for 20p/k or for 1.2p/k?

Another way to worth this, would you rather make $2 an hour or $0.12 an hour?
 
Bobofat said:
I half agree. One bots are not stand alone you much watch it or it will not work all the time.
Yes sweating bots are not good. I feel your pain.
hunting bots. Why not. Its all money to MA.
A bot wont help you win. You can chase the rainbow but it will just move on you.
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This mindset towards hunting bots is the problem. Yes, you won't win in tt but you can in MU. Hunting bots literally hunt 24/7 or close to it until the MU is dried up, fucking over every actual player whos pressing the keys on the keyboard themselves in the long run. I guarantee moloch depths would be way more profitable if it wasnt an instance and ppl couldnt bot on it easily.
 
Gopher said:
if it wasnt an instance
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Honestly the whole game, as far as any player is supposed to know, is a shared loot pool.

There is no case where one player's actions "aren't affecting another player" with regards to this.

Anyone making that argument is either not educated enough to understand how the game works, or they're defending their piece of the action, IMO.
 
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It's not possible for a bot to do RDI instance, it's too complex and random... MA just needs to create more similar gameplay that rewards people that are actually behind their keyboards, and not bots.
 
EU is like standing at a urinal...

Keep your eyes on your own work, drain your bladder (ped card) and don't worry about what others are are using to get the job done or how much of an unfair edge you think they have with what they're holding.
 
A big issue with banning macro users, who are playing the game...not breaking the game.
Is now you have converted a happy player, into an aggressive enemy. They can and will make a new account, and now push the botting in more aggressive ways, for now they have nothing to lose, and a need to regain. This will overall cause more issues than it solves.

But with keeping the rules very lose, generally not enforced. This leaves a large grey area for users to "play nice" in. Not wanting to do extreme things and risk banning, but maybe just repeat F a little and continue to deposit for ammo.
 
jwestonmoss said:
yes and i guess in some sense this is one of only a handful of ways that botters could really be said to be negatively impacting the game: there's no question that sweating is drudgery well-suited for afk botting....but that does degrade the value of the people who put in "real time"
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Nothing ruined the sweat value more, than synthetic sweat. People used to use auto clickers before F interact and auto use tool. Still sweat was 10ped per k and up....synthetic sweat came out and almost instantly market tanked from 10 to 2.
 
Shamshe said:
well ultimatly like I said if nothing can be done about it and if you cant beat them just join them.
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Something CAN be done about it. I personally don't give a rat's ass if people macro, unless it involves mayhem. Reason being a lot of people have switched up and chose to not play until mayhem so they can macro mayhem and get skills + high efficiency UL weapon (eventually) as opposed to buying them from other players with that same ped who actually have persistence and put in effort.

Outside of mayhem its only interfered with me a hand full of times, but they eventually die or get too overweight at which point they're not doing much.

What they CAN and SHOULD do in the case of mayhem is make the player interact with an object (ex: random tombstone) every X number of minutes so that mobs continue to spawn. In the event they don't for a certain period of time or are often failing to do so in a timely manner standing idle, they can be flagged and investigated further, and they should sanction their account removing tokens and skills. More complex botting that requires injecting code can be detectable.

Since the placement token was changed for rare token, a lot of people stopped grinding off season, to dump their ped macroing mayhem. So I don't think MA will be losing significant revenue in the span of a year. And remember when that shop runs dry, people will be expecting it to be restocked. Those guns are the main pull for mayhem aside from boxes. If this goes unchecked for years, how do you think that's gonna turn out? Don't get me wrong, my dividends explode during the season, I may be wrong, but I can assume what goes on in mayhem is funneled into the CLDs, but that's not what's important to me.
 
jambon said:
EU is like standing at a urinal...

Keep your eyes on your own work, drain your bladder (ped card) and don't worry about what others are are using to get the job done or how much of an unfair edge you think they have with what they're holding.
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Too many people looking over the wall instead of focusing on their own objective (PEE IN YOUR OWN URINAL)

(Just jokes)
 
no one cares

(editing my sensitive posts)
 
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infamousH4 said:
when this game goes down the toilet all the macro users can blame themselves for killing the game
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I mean it already has somewhat, if you take a look at auction, the only mob drops that really have any significant MU are the rare asf ones. Anything common nowadays basically has 0 MU. Of course there are some outliers like vixen gears and basic leathers, but the majority of animal loot has 0 MU.
 
Shamshe said:
this is bad why?
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" Total: 158 (members: 47, guests: 111) "

Peak European time on a Sunday evening on Forum in winter when people stay in more.
Also while one of EU main event going (Mayhem).
Sure isn't just the bot army, but something seems broken.
 
There have been options to play that people haven't even caught onto yet for awhile.

But there should be a clear distinction between macros, and bots:
Bots would indicate some sort of automation with many actions, somehow reacting to the environment which is not allowed.
Macros would indicate a repeatable action on a trigger, potentially stacked and looped but limited in scope.

2017-02-27 10:26 Entropia Universe Support:
"you may of course use it for your gameplay, what we have issues with is automation, so long you are there making your actions then doing it by voice is certainly not an issue."

So, If you are there to manage the macro and react to the environment then "macros" are not a problem.
Automation or using a bot with many actions that reacts itself is a problem.

That said, I have too many weapons, and chat too much so I am active when I play, but I will say this game is getting to be a massive burden on my wrists with age, and it leads to less cycling.

Anything to help reduce drag/drop and all the clicking little arrows my right hand would love, and anything that makes item swap use less buttons would be great for my Left. (I dont know how, smart arson/resto? ....something that ultimately is asking too much :))

I have a hard time getting on people who are reducing repetitive actions that can actually be painful. But I totally understand the point, and agree if automated.
 
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