Why would anyone buy an E.L.M weapon?

[Mika]

There is many who just stick to their habits and don't research alternatives.

There is however many elm options that with the use of p20extenders can be very competitive to the mu of their non-elm version and sometimes it can just be a matter

I've not really read the whole thread i only scrolled and read this and it kind of just needs to be summarized as these two sentances being the answer tbh.



I do however be very old fashioned and still hold firm that in order for the whole (L) system to be valid, and work, it needs a revamp. The goal of it is to be usable, and people want to have it so that (L) items do create a variable variety for players.

But it always ends up being a crystal clear cut of "you either use this, or you're kind of dumb ong". There are a plethora, a monstrous sea of (L) items that are just bonkers bad. ANd i said it in another thread that it would end up making not just the "intended market" use them, but so what, the system is whack when people of habbit get hard shafted to the moon it is their fault for not looking things up, but it is what it is.

Also the info we strive to find on wiki such as decay, and what not, should be information given ingame and displayed in the stats of a item. Its honestly a bit tiring when info you find on a item is wrong, because people purposfuly edit miss information to try and be crafty. _ALL_ item stats, should be in clear text on the item itself ingame, not rely on fruit testing and shit.

 

[jambon]

Also the info we strive to find on wiki such as decay, and what not, should be information given ingame and displayed in the stats of a item. Its honestly a bit tiring when info you find on a item is wrong, because people purposfuly edit miss information to try and be crafty. _ALL_ item stats, should be in clear text on the item itself ingame, not rely on fruit testing and shit.

10000000% agree with this. The whole leave it to the community to figure out and keep track of BS is so antiquated. In a game where real money is involved you can't have core information for the operation and understanding of game mechanics on a 3rd party site that new players aren't aware of.

A big reason why people leave is due to losses and it's stuff like this that isn't helping. Some might say it's their problem for not doing the research, but it's not, it's our problem because a lack of growth in players means it's game over for everyone.

 

[Evey]

10000000% agree with this. The whole leave it to the community to figure out and keep track of BS is so antiquated. In a game where real money is involved you can't have core information for the operation and understanding of game mechanics on a 3rd party site that new players aren't aware of.

A big reason why people leave is due to losses and it's stuff like this that isn't helping. Some might say it's their problem for not doing the research, but it's not, it's our problem because a lack of growth in players means it's game over for everyone.

While I agree with the second paragraph, it always has been MA's way to never reveal information about items and let players figure it out. It's a competition game after all, a challenge. Playing the game you agree to a race for resources, information. One could even argue MA should not help with the wiki at all, even if it's a tool all of us (should of) used heavily! We have most of the mechanics figured out, tested, published, thanks to people willing to do this and yet still a bunch of players in denial of efficiency, looter, MU, chasing ghosts just for the sake of opposing the science.

Even publishing everything will not fix this, there would still be people saying "yeah but you really believe them?"

Mentoring system could use some improvement for sure but you rely on the mentor's capacity to interpret information anyway be it community tested or dev posted. BTW, we have dev notes many people don't know about or refuse to believe even...

 

[Mika]

While I agree with the second paragraph, it always has been MA's way to never reveal information about items and let players figure it out. It's a competition game after all, a challenge. Playing the game you agree to a race for resources, information. One could even argue MA should not help with the wiki at all, even if it's a tool all of us (should of) used heavily! We have most of the mechanics figured out, tested, published, thanks to people willing to do this and yet still a bunch of players in denial of efficiency, looter, MU, chasing ghosts just for the sake of opposing the science.

Even publishing everything will not fix this, there would still be people saying "yeah but you really believe them?"

Mentoring system could use some improvement for sure but you rely on the mentor's capacity to interpret information anyway be it community tested or dev posted. BTW, we have dev notes many people don't know about or refuse to believe even...

MA should not be involved with the wiki, but a lot of the info about items that is on wiki, should be cleartext ingame on a item.

because like the quoted post you quoted, it drives people away if they lose money because those who know to well deliveratly sabotage them.

and over time if people quit in bigger numbers than new ones stick, its game over for everyone.

i agree that some things should be for players to figure out. But it should be things such as ‘what to hunt and when’ ‘where to find x, y, z, resources mining.’ ‘Which areas are great for these activities’ and so on.

decay on a weapon, or how uickly it will be useless and rendered tt food. We should not need to repy on friit testing to verify wiki on this. Yet we have to. And we should not expect brand new players to do this. It should be in clear text displayed on the item. Because if not it leads to someone thinking wrong things.

and IF a new player does look into things and wander into the wiki. They will not be able to discern ‘hmm, this seems about correct’ or ‘lol what this is some fuckery going on this is clearly whack’ and double check.

 

[jambon]

While I agree with the second paragraph, it always has been MA's way to never reveal information about items and let players figure it out.

Yeah, but just because it's what they've always done before doesn't mean they need to be confined to that thinking forever. Evolution can be a good thing lol

In any case, the whole idea of figuring things out (as far as items go) kind of went out the window a bit anyways when people started banding together and posting all this data on the wiki - from gun stats to loot tables. Now, it's not about personal discovery so much as who knows about the wiki? Those that don't lose out and those people are generally just new players. It's bad enough that in loot 2.0 new players are fated to get crippling losses for a long time until they skill up their looter. lol

Back in the day, secrecy made more sense when DPP optimization was the main way to maximize returns and decay was assumed to not be returned. To my knowledge, none of which was confirmed by MA at the time either. But now the loot mechanic is pretty much out in the open with the blatant display of the Efficiency stat, the looter skill and mostly general knowledge that that TT returns are directly based on TT cost to kill (not markup) after MA made an official statement about how loot works.

Pretty much everything about a weapon is revealed in game now anyways... so why not a specific amount for decay? I like the word descriptions too as it gives an idea of relativity but being able to see the actual decay would be nice rather than having to rely on a 3rd party site. Having a list of discovered items in game to review, filter, sort and pull links from would be nice too beyond the available orders tab in auction.

Though I'm wondering if decay on UL guns even matters anymore. If it's all part of loot calculation and decay is returned at the same rate as ammo burn why does the cost of decay need to be kept a secret?

Even publishing everything will not fix this, there would still be people saying "yeah but you really believe them?"

Very true. But that's more on those people for their ignorance rather than a lack of transparency on MA's side lol

 

[Evey]

If decay is so important to you guys, you should not be so afraid of a simple fruit test. If fruits is what you're scared of, try Blazar (or Nova)

 

[Mika]

Decay is just a example, something steadfast everyone knows what is and what does, a quick thing everyone understands for the sake of fora and discussions.

Generally items, things we use, ESPECIALLY limited ones (L) should not have a single ounce of secrecy to them in any way shape or form, no hidden stat, no hidden value.

Generally the game lacks on the info front of tools to such a degree even as a mentor or trying to teach new friends to play its "buckle up timmy we are gonna start on page 999224 which is chapter 1 out of 500". Every single aspect of the game as borderline everything hidden and shrouded in secrecy. And it does make sense for a lot of stuff.

But for certain things, not only is it outdated and make no sense at all, its detrimental having newbies chase around for info that is deliberately altered to lure people on wrong paths on purpose. For hunting spots, mining spots, and those type of things, go for it, there it makes sense. But for Bob and Lisa to question what (L) gun or what to use at lvl 25 laser, makes in no way sense at all Example, they should look ingame, be able to read the info on the item, and go "right, using a karona extender on this 200 ped TT gun is not at all wise." etc.

Generally though it feels more like one of those things in a list of many that is just, dogwter. Outdated, stuck in the 90's and no longer works and needs a re-work ground up to actually function in the ecosystem today

 

[jambon]

If decay is so important to you guys, you should not be so afraid of a simple fruit test. If fruits is what you're scared of, try Blazar (or Nova)

What's a fruit test?

 

[Legends]

What's a fruit test?

To figure out the exact decay amount, you add the weapon and then fruit or blazar in the tt until you turn the last decimal, then you know

 

[infamousH4]

at least I try to have an understanding of what may happen or how things could work based on what i see or from experience versus some ppl here who played 6 months and think they understand everything because they read a few posts about loot which can be open to interpretation and so to these wise men i ask .. what could a hunter expect, IF anything, to happens to players' returns when hunters have to buy projectiles for their rockets?? (which we all know has MU%)
(imagine MA creates a game where UL weapons get punished for having to buy ammo...) what does your loot bible say about that??


Me personally i think there are equations to compensate people for MU spent.

 

[Nik-Elas]

at least I try to have an understanding of what may happen or how things could work based on what i see or from experience versus some ppl here who played 6 months and think they understand everything because they read a few posts about loot which can be open to interpretation and so to these wise men i ask .. what could a hunter expect, IF anything, to happens to players' returns when hunters have to buy projectiles for their rockets?? (which we all know has MU%)
(imagine MA creates a game where UL weapons get punished for having to buy ammo...) what does your loot bible say about that??


Me personally i think there are equations to compensate people for MU spent.

If this is the case, wouldn't it be quite easy to abuse that system, let's say you and your buddies buy each others stuff on auction for ridiculous MU back and forth, or do they account MU sold as well as MU spent? If so should one try to spend all MU and get that back before selling and getting extra profit MU, not sure how to describe but that system seems flawed?!

 

[infamousH4]

If this is the case, wouldn't it be quite easy to abuse that system, let's say you and your buddies buy each others stuff on auction for ridiculous MU back and forth, or do they account MU sold as well as MU spent? If so should one try to spend all MU and get that back before selling and getting extra profit MU, not sure how to describe but that system seems flawed?!

what do u mean buy it back and forth? if i buy projectiles and go shoot them, only then i would get compensated , imo. not this silly theory where i buy and sell back and buy back and sell again, where do u guys get these strange ways of testing theories?

 

[Evey]

Me personally i think there are equations to compensate people for MU spent.

Yup. There is one equasion that we use and quoting from the bible':

MU spent < MU gained

 

[Katie Chalmers]

what do u mean buy it back and forth? if i buy projectiles and go shoot them, only then i would get compensated , imo. not this silly theory where i buy and sell back and buy back and sell again, where do u guys get these strange ways of testing theories?

If you buy 100tt projectiles from me for 102%. there is a net transfer of 2 ped between our two accounts. zero money to and from Mindark at that point, except maybe an auction fee. So now mindark would pay you 2 ped in extra loot to compensate you for your upcoming hunt?

Now apply this mechanic to every L consumable item in game, for the entire playerbase, and you generate one hell of a PED fountain to the economy, which can be easily disputed by observation that we don't all have PED flowing out of our ears. and Mindark seemingly are still able to maintain a successful business.

I just don't buy it.

 

[infamousH4]

If you buy 100tt projectiles from me for 102%. there is a net transfer of 2 ped between our two accounts. zero money to and from Mindark at that point, except maybe an auction fee. So now mindark would pay you 2 ped in extra loot to compensate you for your upcoming hunt?

shouldnt that be based on how well i spent that 100 ped, and what exactly do you got me hunting with a 100 ped of projectiles??
its not really considered a hunt until you cycle at least 5k peds

so spending 102% on 5k ped ammo, do i think i'll be compensated? depends on how effectively i use those projectiles i would say ( isnt that how most hunting works? ).. and i would have to use all of the projectiles before i can do the math, if maybe, there is an equation that can compensate for MU spent?
i would prefer to lean on my experience and see what i can figure out than to ignore any info and ask the bible what it thinks.

i also mention earlier in this thread that MA cant have you guys (players) knowing everything there is to know about loot. there is stuff they have to keep a secret... which leads to next thing, i think some ppl may try to use some silly threads to try and draw out opinions of other players and possibly Mindark to try and get MA to say something they shouldnt have said just so they can add another sentence to their loot bible.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

and what exactly do you got me hunting with a 100 ped of projectiles??
its not really considered a hunt until you cycle at least 5k peds

I picked a nice number that easily demonstrates percentages. The actual amount of ammo you use doesn't really matter.

so spending 102% on 5k ped ammo, do i think i'll be compensated? depends on how effectively i use those projectiles i would say ( isnt that how most hunting works? ).. and i would have to use all of the projectiles before i can do the math, if maybe, there is an equation that can compensate for MU spent?
i would prefer to lean on my experience and see what i can figure out than to ignore any info and ask the bible what it thinks.

i also mention earlier in this thread that MA cant have you guys (players) knowing everything there is to know about loot. there is stuff they have to keep a secret... which leads to next thing, i think some ppl may try to use some silly threads to try and draw out opinions of other players and possibly Mindark to try and get MA to say something they shouldnt have said just so they can add another sentence to their loot bible.

You believe that, I don't. That's fine, we can all have differing opinions I guess. If what you are doing works for you then great, keep doing what makes you money and happiness.

GL with your hunts.

 

[jambon]

Me personally i think there are equations to compensate people for MU spent.

Well, that's your right to believe that. Personally, I barely see decent returns on the TT I spend, let alone any markup I pay on top of that lol. If you do though that's pretty amazing!

 

[DanAsh]

Was it from Rick's wisdom? Sounds like it...


Edit. To expand a bit, maybe some forgot, Rick's theory is/was that when you purchase an UNL weapon, the markup you pay for it will come back in a form of a HOF from hunting. Read that again.

But I have statistical evidence to prove this! I bought a lp-40 perfected. About a week later i hit a 17.5k hof, 8 times bigger than anything I've gotten before! So seems about right to me

 

[bigdaddy trim]

Was it from Rick's wisdom? Sounds like it...


Edit. To expand a bit, maybe some forgot, Rick's theory is/was that when you purchase an UNL weapon, the markup you pay for it will come back in a form of a HOF from hunting. Read that again.

Yes as i was reading infamous posts i thought he must be Rick fan boy.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

But I have statistical evidence to prove this! I bought a lp-40 perfected. About a week later i hit a 17.5k hof, 8 times bigger than anything I've gotten before! So seems about right to me

Everytime I go to bed, the sun comes about 8 hours later the next morning, therefore my sleep habits control the sun

 

[DanAsh]

Everytime I go to bed, the sun comes about 8 hours later the next morning, therefore my sleep habits control the sun

Yes and coincidentally the MU paid for this weapon was about 8 times more than I have ever paid for a weapon before.

Also I would love that the sun would rise only 8 hours later right now.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

Yes and coincidentally the MU paid for this weapon was about 8 times more than I have ever paid for a weapon before.

Also I would love that the sun would rise only 8 hours later right now.

You’re not serious are you? Clearly that was just a coincidence, it would be so easy to cheat the MU system and test if it’s true, just buy a gun for absurd markup from a friend and see boosted loot.
It doesn’t work that way. MA have said many times MU is not returned, markup is just players swapping value the game doesn’t get a portion of it, so it can’t return bonus loot from it, as that loot is in the other players hands.
This whole MU theory just doesn’t even make sense in the first place. It has zero grounds to even be a thing it makes no sense that it would even exist as a theory.

 

[Spawn]

If they don’t have the bankroll to comfortably decay one weapon then they have no business hunting at that level, go chase exarosaur with bukins rifle.
If they are perfectly happy blowing their money with un smart decisions, that is fine, but they better not complain about this game being a scam etc.

So what you are saying with added level gains you need to deposit more if you want to use a higher level weapon. Or chase exarosaurs with a bukins rifle for eternity.

Lets say somebody plays this game for 8 years and deposits 30 usd every month and loses it every month.
Then he will have paid 28800 ped. he may be level 70 and can use those shiny ELM weapons.. but he must stick to the bukins blade, because... " business"
He could have bought himself a nice shiny rtx powered gaming rig and a lot of MMORPGs of 60 usd each. You have the word scam in your reply............

I am just saying that mr average may want to buy a nice weapon sometimes and shoot something else than an exarosaur. That's called having fun. And he can afford the ELM, even if the deposit is "only" 30 usd per month. Probably stupid yes. But how much fun is shooting exarosaurs with a bukins rifle for eternity?

 

[Katie Chalmers]

So what you are saying with added level gains you need to deposit more if you want to use a higher level weapon. Or chase exarosaurs with a bukins rifle for eternity.

Lets say somebody plays this game for 8 years and deposits 30 usd every month and loses it every month.
Then he will have paid 28800 ped. he may be level 70 and can use those shiny ELM weapons.. but he must stick to the bukins blade, because... " business"
He could have bought himself a nice shiny rtx powered gaming rig and a lot of MMORPGs of 60 usd each. You have the word scam in your reply............

I am just saying that mr average may want to buy a nice weapon sometimes and shoot something else than an exarosaur. That's called having fun. And he can afford the ELM, even if the deposit is "only" 30 usd per month. Probably stupid yes. But how much fun is shooting exarosaurs with a bukins rifle for eternity?

Yes exactly, the higher you go up the DPS ladder, the more bankroll you should have as a general rule. Not being able to afford your desired L weapon, and settle for lower cost ELM is good sign that you likely DONT have a good bankroll.
Of course they don’t have to stick with small mobs, they are free to have fun in any way they wish, but it’s still an un smart decision financially.