Info: 5 different weapons against Argos - TEST

As low-mid player I struggled for a long time as to which weapon to use, against a certain mob.
We all know that (L) weapons are more eco; but a question still remains: what if you get better loot using a UL weapon?
Eco in my opinion, is the "art" of minimizing your looses (missed shoots, decay etc.) which is about the only thing we can control. We cannot control the "output", or in other words... the loot. At least this is my opinion.
Since I started to camp Argos a while ago, I've decided to record my runs.
Before detailing these runs, I'd like to clarify a few points:

1. I'm willing to sacrifice some eco for a speed gain; I don't have a lot of time to play, so my runs are 100PED ammo. In some cases, I did/will do two runs in a day.
2. I can't track my skill either, because the time limit. Also, I do some mining too here and there; due to the fact the first batch of tests (Breer P5 (L)) was done during the SGA "event", I did some runs on Longtooth... so the skill gain cannot be tracked accurately. However, I will give my impression on skill gain at the end of the entire test.
3. Due to armor choice, I seldom need to FAP (again, due to the time constrain), but I still have to do it a few times per run. The decay on the FAP it's balanced by the Light Cell ammo I loot, except if don't loot any, or if I loot a large quantity (never happened until now ).
4. The loot is TT only; I only keep track of Iron and items with some MU (CB 19 etc.). All these will be posted, so you can draw your own conclusion.

THE TEST
- 20 runs X 100 PED ammo each per weapon
- weapons: Breer P5 (L), Korss 400 (L), EWE 40 Merc, EWE 41 Military and Isis CB 19 (L)
- all the L items are maxed, as for the UL ones... my numbers are: 4.0/6.3
- I hunt always at the same place, at around the same time
- Armor: Pixie+5A; FAPs: 5, 35 and 2600. The last I only use if I come across a Hunter. Also, I will be using A104 for all laser guns, and Fi/Ra/Co Beast for the CB 19 test.

As there are some discussions pertaining to this subject, I decided to post my results. Please feel free to comment any way you like, or ask any questions you may have.

NOTE: it might be a while until the entire test is completed; please be patient. As I stated above, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to spend in the game.

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UPDATE
As requested, I hunt Argos in the area between around the Outpost N-W of Twin.
Maturity (this is just an estimate):
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1. Breer P5 (L) - Total summary results
20 runs X 100 PED

Gun decay: 203.19
Amp decay: 427.9
Armor decay: 86.49
Ammo: 2,020
Total Expenses: 2737.58

Total Loot TT: 2348.05
Iron (included above): 653.36

Profit/Looses: - 389.53 (91.62% - No MU)

NOTES:
- 3 globals (133, 51, 95)
- Items: 103 PED Isis CB 19 (L), 42 PED frean D Beta, 95 PED Isis CB 19 (L) and 10.51 ESI

=============================================

2. Korss 400 (L) - Total summary results
20 runs X 100 PED

Gun decay: 216.13
Amp decay: 479.06
Armor decay: 67.53
Ammo: 2,000 PED
Total Expenses: 2762.72

Total Loot TT: 2412.61
Iron (included above): 728

Profit/Looses: - 350.11 (87.32% - No MU)

NOTES:
- 2 globals (51, 58, 106)
- Items: 106 PED Isis CB 19 (L), 30 PED Lesser TP Chip

=============================================

3. EWE 40 - Total summary results
20 runs X 100 PED

Gun decay: 200.34
Amp decay: 432.27
Armor decay: 71.64
Ammo: 2,000 PED
Total Expenses: 2704.36

Total Loot TT: 2520.98
Iron (included above): 700.96

Profit/Looses: - 183.38 (93.21% - No MU)

NOTES:
- 5 globals (73, 52, 75, 71, 74)
- Items: Med Nerve Blast, 2x Kango Masks, 46PED Aurora Helm F (L)
=============================================

4. EWE 41 - Total summary results
20 runs X 100 PED

Gun decay: 223.96
Amp decay: 0
Armor decay: 41.43
Ammo: 2000 PED
Total Expenses: 2265.39

Total Loot TT: 1968.25
Iron (included above): 493.22

Profit/Looses: - 297.14 (86.9% - No MU)

NOTES:
- 3 globals (125, 85, 61)
- Items: 125PED CB 19, 85PED CB 19, 27.15 Lesser TP, 5.59 Lesser TP
=============================================

5. ISIS CB19+Beast - Partial summary results
10 runs X 100 PED

Gun decay: 321.7
Amp decay: 266.99
Armor decay: 19.37
Ammo: 1000 PED
Total Expenses: 1608.06

Total Loot TT: 1524.31
Iron (included above): 493.22

Profit/Looses: - 83.75 (94.79% - No MU)

NOTES:
- 4 globals (71, 67, 54, 52)
- Items: 3 Knight Thighs F, 2 Paladin Masks, 1 Kinetic L3 Chip L, 1 TP Chip Level 1

Good luck mate.

Gl with that but you shouldn't interrupt your hunt at 100 peds.. usually the loot gets "better" after 100-150 peds burned with korss400, p5a ... at least from my experience

I am interested in what you find out. 2000ped tests with each weapon is a good number I think. Good luck and have fun

narfi

Interested in seeing results! Subscribed.

Thank you everyone for the interest and advices.

@levithanikos: thanks mate... I know that loot tends to get better in longer runs. Unfortunately, I don't have the necessary time, although I would definitely like to be able to do longer runs.

Also, I am aware that I can easily use Pixie unplatted in combination with a tagger, and maybe even naked (well... you know what I mean). I would also probably could use a finisher; my issue is that I need to shoot as fast as I can, and faping+tagging+finisher only makes me spending more time.
As I said in the opening post being eco is not my target with this test.

Gl and I will subscribe to see results.


Would be nice to see a breakdown of all items looted, e.g. "Teleport chips: 3" etc. But if there isn't time, no worries

Spinage said:

Gl and I will subscribe to see results.


Would be nice to see a breakdown of all items looted, e.g. "Teleport chips: 3" etc. But if there isn't time, no worries

Click to expand...

Firstly... thank you; secondly, I decided no to keep track of the items without a relevant MU due to time constraint; it's just too much. TP chips are not that common, I think I've got only 1 during the P5 test. But I've got 2-3 Nerve Blast (Lesser), 1-2 Paladin Face M, 3-4 Paladin Face F and around 5-6 Knight Thighs F.

Gl. Subscribing

jjmatrix said:

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- Armor: Pixie+5A; FAPs: 5, 35 and 2600. The last I only use if I come across a Hunter.

Click to expand...

That gives us a bit of a clue as to what maturity range you're hunting, but could you make it a bit more explicit? thanks

jay

Very Interesting...I want to start doign this kind of stuff...

Second post updated with partial results (10 runs) from Korss 400 (L). It's getting very interesting .

Great log... subscribing to keep up with your results, mate.

It might be interesting to include a melle weapon inwith all of your ranged options. Not sure if you have any of those maxed, but something like a Rutic Slo (L) or an UL Kat Honor should do the trick.

I think adding at least one type of melle would really boost the dynamic that your going for.

Just my

JEHU

Very interested in this test. Subscribing and good luck!

kingjehu said:

Great log... subscribing to keep up with your results, mate.

It might be interesting to include a melle weapon inwith all of your ranged options. Not sure if you have any of those maxed, but something like a Rutic Slo (L) or an UL Kat Honor should do the trick.

I think adding at least one type of melle would really boost the dynamic that your going for.

Just my

JEHU

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First off, thank you (and DoubleWolf) for the interest; you are the third person mentioning the inclusion of a melee weapon. I think it might indeed be really interesting; I'm level 19 Swordsman so I should be OK with the Slo.

jjmatrix said:

First off, thank you (and DoubleWolf) for the interest; you are the third person mentioning the inclusion of a melee weapon. I think it might indeed be really interesting; I'm level 19 Swordsman so I should be OK with the Slo.

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If you are at lvl 19, I would suggest the Rutic Kil. Its almost twice the DPS and will be needed if you target anything over the lowest maturities.. (also plays better into your speed game). They are cheep to craft around 5ped per click and with a load of residue you can get max TT blade of 1030, which is good for your test target of 2k ped. Find a friend with the BP or grab one of AU.

Jehu

Interesting results so far, subscribing to see the rest.

Nice test, thanks for sharing.

What amp are you using? same for each gun?

I'd suggest to add p4a and riker ul3 for the test... GL

Spinage said:

What amp are you using? same for each gun?

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I missed that from the original post... thank you!
I am/will be using A104 for all Laser weapons, and Fi/Ra/Co Beast for the CB 19 test.

jjmatrix said:

I missed that from the original post... thank you!
I am/will be using A104 for all Laser weapons, and Fi/Ra/Co Beast for the CB 19 test.

Click to expand...

ok, thanks, I know this is picky, but I notice that.. your data seems to be incorrect.

Example, you say you used 2020ped of ammo with p5a +a104, and got amp decay of 427.9 and gun of 203.19.

According to entropedia, over 2020 ped ammo with this set up, (10pec ammo per shot), you would of clicked the gun 20,200 times, that would be 411.89ped decay on the amp and 189.48 ped on the gun.

I know this doesn't effect totals DRASTICALLY, but it effects them.. enough.. are you recycling ammo? ie, shooting looted ammo. That effects your TT%.

Gl sorry for being annoying, but it's true

Try to add another weapon when time will alow, something low decay. I'd suggest imp ep 21/adj hero unamped or ravenger V1, if you can borrow either of them from someone.

As for recycling ammo looted, if you want to avoid that, at the beginning of the run split 1 ammo from the stack, the looted will add to the 1 stack and you can check when to stop.

Spinage said:

... are you recycling ammo? ie, shooting looted ammo. That effects your TT%.

Gl sorry for being annoying, but it's true

Click to expand...

No reason for apologizing; that's why I posted, so we can discuss.
Yes, the Light Cells I loot, I use during the hunt; my estimate was that decay on the FAP (which is also not written down) will balance with the ammo. I'm sure there is a small difference somewhere, but I think we can discount it.
Also, my main purpose is to see the loot using different weapons, so if I am consistent in the runs (and I am), it should not impact the main goal of this tests.

Kerham said:

Try to add another weapon when time will alow, something low decay. I'd suggest imp ep 21/adj hero unamped or ravenger V1, if you can borrow either of them from someone.

Click to expand...

And that's another good suggestion, along with using a melee weapon; if I can get my hands on either, I think it's worth seeing the results. Thank you.

Kerham said:

As for recycling ammo looted, if you want to avoid that, at the beginning of the run split 1 ammo from the stack, the looted will add to the 1 stack and you can check when to stop.

Click to expand...

This I have to test; I was under the impression that if you split your ammo, each stack will run down. All looted ammo does go in a different stack, but it gets used once the bought ammo is finished; I did not find an easy way to do this, that's why I preferred to try and balance the Light Cell ammo with the FAP decay.

jjmatrix said:

Also, my main purpose is to see the loot using different weapons, so if I am consistent in the runs (and I am), it should not impact the main goal of this tests.

Click to expand...

Well truth be told, while you may be consistent, the loot is not. Some runs you may loot a lot of light cells while others not as much. I wouldn't really see this as balancing out.

What I do is take more than I need for a run and when my stack gets low enough, I call the run done. That way looted ammo doesn't get accidentally counted in the totals.

It might not throw your data off by much, but if you hit a big loot with a lot of the ammo type you use and continue to play, it will appear that your run was much better than it actually was...

These sort of comparisons are always fraught with difficulties. For example, you may get lucky and get a global/HoF which would skew the statistics - so I would recommend removing globals from the comparison, but should the ybe replaced with a nother value?. The main question, however, is how to know when a sufficiently large sample has been done?
I guess the best way to compare is to draw a graph of loot vs ped expended. If there is one weapon which is better than the others then it will consistently be above the other lines. If there is no significant difference then the lines will be crossing one another all the time.

Good luck anyway!

davidgr1200 said:

These sort of comparisons are always fraught with difficulties. For example, you may get lucky and get a global/HoF which would skew the statistics - so I would recommend removing globals from the comparison, but should the ybe replaced with a nother value?. The main question, however, is how to know when a sufficiently large sample has been done?
I guess the best way to compare is to draw a graph of loot vs ped expended. If there is one weapon which is better than the others then it will consistently be above the other lines. If there is no significant difference then the lines will be crossing one another all the time.

Good luck anyway!

Click to expand...

Globals shouldn't make a massive difference on these mobs, as they do global often enough for it to be considered normal loot, unlike for example a daiki young, where a global is out of the ordinary.

Ubers and hofs may be difficult, but he is writing the exact value of all global+ in his results, making it easy for you to deduct if you wish when analysing



As far as recycling ammo goes, maybe it would be better to, instead of tracking ammo usage by how much you buy, just track it by the decay on the gun. Then you will know exactly how many times you shot.

It may get too complicated, but you could just note down how much ammo you start with, e.g. 100 ped, then look at decay on gun, if it is the ammount for 110 ped ammo, then you would add 10ped to your TT loot value, and 10 ped to your ammo spent value. Since as technically it is the same as looting 10 ped of anything and buying an extra 10ped ammo to use.

e.g. you get 90% on 100ped ammo, 10ped of which is ammo loot, of which you spend and get 90% again, this results in 89 ped. That is 89% (in reality it's a bigger difference as you keep recycling).

If you were to say.. 100ped ammo, got 90% loot, 10ped ammo and got 90% again, but noted your ammo use as 110 ped and loot as +10ped, you would get 99ped loot, which is exactly 90% of 110.

It is up to you, but that is how I do it if I decide to recycle ammo.


Doing it this way here is what you will get for your P5A:

203.19/0.00938= 21662 uses.

21662 * .10 = 2166.2 ammo spent.

So, your total ammo spent is 2166.2 and your total loot is
2348.05-2020+2166.2 =2494.23

For your Korss it is 1060.63 ammo spent which means 1366.48 loot.

To be more clearer, if I get Light Cells over 2-3 PED, I put down the value in PED, in the loot column for that extra ammo.
The only thing that "suffers" is the total amount of ammo spent.

jjmatrix said:

To be more clearer, if I get Light Cells over 2-3 PED, I put down the value in PED, in the loot column for that extra ammo.
The only thing that "suffers" is the total amount of ammo spent.

Click to expand...

Oki, well no matter what, if you recycle ammo, it's gonna have messed up results.. your essentially using your loot and getting either more or less loot with it, so it's not the original loot.

I would usually say it doesn't make any difference, but on your p5a one it made like 140ped difference or so and on your Korss, it's made 60ped or so so far. That's four small globals worth of loot your recycling GL with experiment though I will still watch results

Subscribing keep it up! This will be interesting to see!

Thanks for sharing. This could be very useful information that could be applied to other weapons after analizing for any patterns. Subscribing