Question: Miners Ranking

Ido · May 9, 2011

Hello All Miners,

If you are not aware I am the creator of the Little Big Mining Log (www.mininglog.com)

We would like to discuss with you ideas for a Miners Ranking for our users. Of course this will only include users of the Little Big Mining Log currently there are 50 of them so i guess its quite a decent group

Question is: How do you determine who is the best miner?

The poll is multi select so please choose one answer for each pair:

Question 1: Do we Measure Last 7 days ... or ... Last 30 days to estimate Miners Performance?

Question 2: Do we Sum Number of Claims ... or ... Do we rank the ores rarity and sum up the point values of each found claim (i.e. Lysterium 1 point, Platinum 100 pts) so finding few rare ores counts for a lot points similar to finding thousands of common claims?

Question 3: Should we give bonus points for being a well rounded miner? for example finding all of the available ore types / enm types / claim sizes would give additional 100% bonus to your points finding half would give 50% etc ? So it would be sort of a bonus for well rounded miners that mine ores and enmatters with and without amps?

If you have other ideas or want to comment please post below.

Best Regards
Ido Sunrider

Micheva · May 9, 2011

Q1: Measuring over a short period of time does not show averages correctly. Take a larger sample size.
Q2: Depends on your definition of 'Best Miner'. If you mean higher skilled (and thus able to use better finders; and subsequently able to find higher MU ores) use a ranking system for ores. Otherwise go for amount of claims.

Q3: No, because some miners only go for certain types or ores / mine in certain area's (not all ores/enmatters can be found in 1 area)

In Love With · May 9, 2011

none of what you wrote is important for me to determine the best miner ...

I have a friend who never deposited and he has about 20k ores/enmatter in storage. He makes money mining ... Not much, granted but he somehow manages to bring in a higher markup vs the loss of tt he returns on average ...

Someone like him I would consider the best miner ... Anyone can piss away 109 amps on FOMA (sorry Pavillion) but we all know that losses are massive, even if you get lots of 400 ped hofs in a day.

Just my 2 cents

Angel

Mary Jane · May 9, 2011

In Love With said:
none of what you wrote is important for me to determine the best miner ...

I have a friend who never deposited and he has about 20k ores/enmatter in storage. He makes money mining ... Not much, granted but he somehow manages to bring in a higher markup vs the loss of tt he returns on average ...

Someone like him I would consider the best miner ... Anyone can piss away 109 amps on FOMA (sorry Pavillion) but we all know that losses are massive, even if you get lots of 400 ped hofs in a day.

Just my 2 cents

Angel

In a long term 109 can be massive loss but if you buy 1 our 2 sometimes you can have huge profit

Immortal · May 9, 2011

((Number of Claims)/(Decay of Finder))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

Of course this assumes everyone starts with the same finder.

((Number of Claims)/(Total Decay))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

Ido · May 9, 2011

Immortal said:
((Number of Claims)/(Decay of Finder))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

Of course this assumes everyone starts with the same finder.

((Number of Claims)/(Total Decay))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

Ahh but this takes a lot of luck into account .. and if we want a sort of competition going we dont want to determine who had the most luck finding the biggest hof ... i guess luck doesn't make you a good miner ... but finding a lot of rare claims differnet depths different sizes all over the place does ... doesn't it ?

If we would want to choose a Mining Hero .. like Superman .. "MiningMan" with a big M on his chest we would want to see a person who can go around and basically do it all (big small deep shallow foma calyspo hell etc.. no ?)

Laurent · May 9, 2011

IMO it is impossible to know who are the best miners in game.

Reason is simple : you cannot deduct anythin' from a period T ( even a month or a year)

Further to

- your skills
- losses/break even before this period T
- People mining but hunting and craftin too and thus cycling more peds.

The best miners ingame are probably some unknow guys knowing fields and economy.

Ido · May 9, 2011

Laurent said:
IMO it is impossible to know who are the best miners in game.

Reason is simple : you cannot deduct anythin' from a period T ( even a month or a year)

Further to

- your skills
- losses/break even before this period T
- People mining but hunting and craftin too and thus cycling more peds.

The best miners ingame are probably some unknow guys knowing fields and economy.

Hmm... well I'm trying to figure out how to determine the best Miner out of the Little Big Mining Log user base

I know ET uses total peds looted in hofs/globals but since I'm running a dedicated mining program i think we can do better .. unfortunately only people using the tool will be included in the challenge but i think still it will give some a motivation to further their experience and embark on new challenges like mining with different gear on in different locations

Step out of their comfort zone and try something new.

Laurent · May 9, 2011

Sorry Ido, i've been a little harsh with you...

To help you a bit, i would tend to go for rare ores.

The best miners will have to find rugaritz, redulite, xeremite, tridenite and dunkel. ( assuming those are the hardest one to find).

When they finally find a claim of all those, they will have to tell the community how many bombs/probes they used.

Thanks and all the best for your program : The Little Big Mining Log.

A dedicated miner

Sircus · May 9, 2011

The answer is easy. The one who makes most profit. As someone else said just dropping bombs with oa-109 doesnt equal good miner.

kosmos · May 9, 2011

technique and knowing where to go will always mean more than global or hof spam. i know some that quietly loot the same or more markup than me because of how they mine. those are the best miners to me. anyone can use a amp and generate a global, but knowing where things are at and having a strategy is another matter.

Divinity · May 9, 2011

To me a person who can find the best avg markup is a way better miner then one who can global/hof more often. Global/hof's can be forced but to get the right ore/enmatter , that needs knowledge of place/finder/timing etc.

However a good tt return % is also important.

Something of this sort perhaps : (%tt return * 40 + % Avg MU *60)/100 for a scoring schema.

Basically giving weightage to tt return as well as MU. I have chosen 40/60 , however that can be varied ofcourse.

Ido · May 9, 2011

unfortunately we cant extract return data .. because we don't know how much a person really drop and the exact ped count of the claims found .. if we would use hi ratio it could lead to abuse where people would make drops only after they claimed a resource but before they scan it leading to 100% hit rate

The data we can work with is:
Claim Size
Claim Depth
Claim Count
Ore/Enm type
Ore/Enm Rarity based on other users finds
Location as in planet or continent ... or continent coverage as in (http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php) which squares they were at

what we CANT access is TT value gained or PEDs spent

Maybe this will help you help me figure this one out

Ido

Pallas Gaudio · May 10, 2011

'Best miner' is probably not the best title.

Why not simply do different lists recognising different styles of mining?

And then ... to combine them ... go for something like 'miner of the month'? That wouldn't have to be based on any precise formula, but goes to any player who for you stands out from the lists in that particular month.

Immortal · May 10, 2011

Ido said:
Ahh but this takes a lot of luck into account .. and if we want a sort of competition going we dont want to determine who had the most luck finding the biggest hof ... i guess luck doesn't make you a good miner ... but finding a lot of rare claims differnet depths different sizes all over the place does ... doesn't it ?

If we would want to choose a Mining Hero .. like Superman .. "MiningMan" with a big M on his chest we would want to see a person who can go around and basically do it all (big small deep shallow foma calyspo hell etc.. no ?)

Actually that formula removes all elements of luck (I think you misinterpreted it) and it penalizes you for getting a big hof on TT food. Unless you consider "number of claims" to be an indicator of luck instead of skill

Ido · May 10, 2011

Pallas Gaudio said:
'Best miner' is probably not the best title.

Why not simply do different lists recognising different styles of mining?

And then ... to combine them ... go for something like 'miner of the month'? That wouldn't have to be based on any precise formula, but goes to any player who for you stands out from the lists in that particular month.

Its an interesting comment but i prefer to have an automated system with clear rules laid out for he competition.

Immortal said:
Actually that formula removes all elements of luck (I think you misinterpreted it) and it penalizes you for getting a big hof on TT food. Unless you consider "number of claims" to be an indicator of luck instead of skill

((Number of Claims)/(Total Decay))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

number of claims / total decay seems like something going along the trend of hit ratio ... get more claims with less decay = be more lucky when dropping bombs
markup loot / tt loot is the increment for finding more required items if something has 600% MU you multiply by 6 ...

In turn i was thinking of giving points for taking the effort to mine more to give a fighting chance to those who don't necessarily find rare high valued items ...

If miner A finds 10 claims of rare ore (say each is worth 10 pts ) he gets 100 pts of victory .. he might have a multiplier for finding a lot of various ores on different continents etc .. say 50% so he ends up with 150 pts total ...

if he stops at 10 claims it would be nice to have a hard working newcomer actually stand a chance to beat them if they put in a lot of effort ... 151 claims of lyst or oil and bam they are in the lead

there is something heroic in trying hard too even if it doesn't always work out too well

Ido

Immortal · May 10, 2011

Ido said:
Its an interesting comment but i prefer to have an automated system with clear rules laid out for he competition.

((Number of Claims)/(Total Decay))*((Markup Loot)/(TT Loot))

number of claims / total decay seems like something going along the trend of hit ratio ... get more claims with less decay = be more lucky when dropping bombs
markup loot / tt loot is the increment for finding more required items if something has 600% MU you multiply by 6 ...

In turn i was thinking of giving points for taking the effort to mine more to give a fighting chance to those who don't necessarily find rare high valued items ...

If miner A finds 10 claims of rare ore (say each is worth 10 pts ) he gets 100 pts of victory .. he might have a multiplier for finding a lot of various ores on different continents etc .. say 50% so he ends up with 150 pts total ...

if he stops at 10 claims it would be nice to have a hard working newcomer actually stand a chance to beat them if they put in a lot of effort ... 151 claims of lyst or oil and bam they are in the lead there is something heroic in trying hard too even if it doesn't always work out too well

Ido

You aren't thinking in terms of averages. Nowadays every items has a unique identity, so you can without fail create an event using items issued by you and limit the rules to the use of just that item.

Kid Squirrel · May 10, 2011

I've never mined, so I voted for option 3 and 6 :laugh:

carry on

Pallas Gaudio · May 10, 2011

Ido said:
Its an interesting comment but i prefer to have an automated system with clear rules laid out for he competition.

okey-dokey.

My other suggestion would be to drop the 'best' and replace it with 'top'. People who don't win won't be quite so pissed off!

Ido · May 10, 2011

Pallas Gaudio said:
okey-dokey.

My other suggestion would be to drop the 'best' and replace it with 'top'. People who don't win won't be quite so pissed off!

The title can be Top Miner also

or King Detectonator

but Top Miner is nice so maybe we will go with that

Ido

raynopssgold · May 11, 2011

Hi Ido,

The signature would be great, if it can include with the amount of globals, HoFs, Towers and ATHs... (Four different sections in a miner signature)

dr3w · May 11, 2011

Ido said:
The title can be Top Miner also or King Detectonator but Top Miner is nice so maybe we will go with that

Ido

Well - make selectable achievements, like in EU, which can be shown in your sig. Maximum 3 of them, maybe.

Kinda:

Oil King - got XXXXXX of Crude in XXXXXX days
Lucky Mofo - hits two towers in 2 days
Iron Man - etc

And top of them. Since there is NO WAY to tell best miner or not - make fun of it!

Lysterium Young, Lysterium Stalker, etc.

Awards like: Zombie Miner (look, he hits more than 100k claims...)

Mining Streak: hits X for X times consecutive. (and top of it)

And... BUMP!

phymorra · May 11, 2011

Ido, I like your ideas. Hope the "Unknown" claims don't disturb the project too much, though.

For me, 7 days sounds way too short. Talking about Rares, even 30 days will show big fluctuations. On the other hand, with 30 days, everyone has still a chance to reach the top of a ranking within a few weeks. Thus, for motivation 30 days seem to be perfect.
Pallas Gaudio said:

'Best miner' is probably not the best title.

Click to expand...

I agree with Pallas. As I just have played Crysis a few days ago, "Maximum Miner", "Maximum Quality", ... might be cool, too
Ido said:

The data we can work with is:
Claim Size
Claim Depth
Claim Count
Ore/Enm type
Ore/Enm Rarity based on other users finds
Location as in planet or continent ... or continent coverage as in (http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php) which squares they were at

what we CANT access is TT value gained or PEDs spent

Click to expand...

With the above data availabe, a set of different rankings comes to my mind. Something for everyone's style. The rank "Top Miner" might be a combination of the 'hard' rankings. For example:
- "TOP CLAIMER" (hard ranking)
- "TOP QUALITY" (hard ranking)
- "TOP VOLUME" (soft ranking)
- "TOP DEEPCORE" (soft ranking)
- "TOP DIVERSITY" (soft ranking)
- "TOP EXPLORER" (soft ranking)
- "TOP MINER" = "TOP CLAIMER" * "TOP QUALITY"
"TOP CLAIMER" should be additive. "TOP QUALITY" might have a range from 1 (Lyst, Oil, ...) over 2-3 (Narc, Nik, Typo, ...) and ca. 5 (Devil, Kanerium, ...) to 10 (Dunkel, Rugaritz, ...). It should have a cap as a function of number of claims. (Eg: Cap = 1 + number of claims * 0.01). By this, one could not have the ultimate "TOP QUALITY" rank by just finding 1 claim of Rugaritz and nothing else.
dr3w said:

Lysterium Young, Lysterium Stalker, etc.

Awards like: Zombie Miner (look, he hits more than 100k claims...)

Mining Streak: hits X for X times consecutive. (and top of it)

Click to expand...

I just love dr3w's creativity. Great idea!

Phymora, a miner on the run

Ido · May 11, 2011

phymorra said:
With the above data availabe, a set of different rankings comes to my mind. Something for everyone's style. The rank "Top Miner" might be a combination of the 'hard' rankings. For example:

"TOP CLAIMER" (hard ranking)

"TOP QUALITY" (hard ranking)

"TOP VOLUME" (soft ranking)

"TOP DEEPCORE" (soft ranking)

"TOP DIVERSITY" (soft ranking)

"TOP EXPLORER" (soft ranking)

"TOP MINER" = "TOP CLAIMER" * "TOP QUALITY"

"TOP CLAIMER" should be additive. "TOP QUALITY" might have a range from 1 (Lyst, Oil, ...) over 2-3 (Narc, Nik, Typo, ...) and ca. 5 (Devil, Kanerium, ...) to 10 (Dunkel, Rugaritz, ...). It should have a cap as a function of number of claims. (Eg: Cap = 1 + number of claims * 0.01). By this, one could not have the ultimate "TOP QUALITY" rank by just finding 1 claim of Rugaritz and nothing else.

Phymora, a miner on the run

Great Comments Phymora .. can you explain in details how each of these would work ?

phymorra · May 11, 2011

Ido said:
Great Comments Phymora .. can you explain in details how each of these would work ?

Hmmm, in most cases, summing up the corresponding values should do it. How you do it exactly and balancing should be your job of course.
I would do something like

"TOP CLAIMER": claimnumber = number of claims during the last 30 days = sum(claims[30d]).
Thus, even a miner who never uses amps could win this title.

"TOP QUALITY": quality = sum(quality of claims[30d])/sum(claims[30d]) capped by sum(claims[30d])

Code:

miner = database.get_miner(name="Ido")
claims = database.get_last_claims(miner, days=30)
miner.quality = sum(claims.quality)/sum(claims)
if (miner.quality > 1+sum(claims)/100) miner.quality = 1+sum(claims)/100
database.set_miner(miner)
database.set_quality_ranking(miner)

The tricky part is to assign a quality to each ore/enmatter. The most simple way would be to set quality = mu.

"TOP VOLUME": volume = sum of sizes of all claims during the last 30 days.
Here, amps are kings. Miners like Pavillion could reach the top here.
"TOP DEEPCORE": deepcore = average depth of claims during the last 30 days. (or only deepest claim )
Finally, depth enhancers will bring you to the top.
"TOP DIVERSITY": diversity = number of different ore/enmatter types found during the last 30 days.
Once again, we can be happy to find some gold.
"TOP EXPLORER": exploration = number of visited squares.
Squares could be like here: http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php.
Of course, with smaller squares (eg. 100m x 100m) coverage of different territory could be measured.
I would do a combination of both. Moreover, having at least one claim on Calypso Planet/FOMA/NI should be rewarded.

Something else:
I think it's a good thing not to have "access to TT value gained or PEDs spent". This way, we can enjoy the more creative and fun rankings. What about mining in dangerous domes or toxic areas. If you make a ranking "TOP MINER ON THE RUN", I might even join the mininglog

Phymora, a miner on the run

Ido · May 11, 2011

phymorra said:
Hmmm, in most cases, summing up the corresponding values should do it. How you do it exactly and balancing should be your job of course.
I would do something like

"TOP CLAIMER": claimnumber = number of claims during the last 30 days = sum(claims[30d]).
Thus, even a miner who never uses amps could win this title.

"TOP QUALITY": quality = sum(quality of claims[30d])/sum(claims[30d]) capped by sum(claims[30d])

The tricky part is to assign a quality to each ore/enmatter. The most simple way would be to set quality = mu.

"TOP VOLUME": volume = sum of sizes of all claims during the last 30 days.
Here, amps are kings. Miners like Pavillion could reach the top here.

"TOP DEEPCORE": deepcore = average depth of claims during the last 30 days. (or only deepest claim )
Finally, depth enhancers will bring you to the top.

"TOP DIVERSITY": diversity = number of different ore/enmatter types found during the last 30 days.
Once again, we can be happy to find some gold.

"TOP EXPLORER": exploration = number of visited squares.
Squares could be like here: http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php.
Of course, with smaller squares (eg. 100m x 100m) coverage of different territory could be measured.
I would do a combination of both. Moreover, having at least one claim on Calypso Planet/FOMA/NI should be rewarded.

Something else:
I think it's a good thing not to have "access to TT value gained or PEDs spent". This way, we can enjoy the more creative and fun rankings. What about mining in dangerous domes or toxic areas. If you make a ranking "TOP MINER ON THE RUN", I might even join the mininglog

Phymora, a miner on the run

I like these ..
we can add minimum ped values for given claim sizes to get total tt earned .. but it gives the same relative level as just summing the total size of all calims .. so the same as TOP VOLUME

Peds spent is impossible because it would be easy to cheat on it

"MINER ON THE RUN" - can be a miner who found most claims in one given hour in last 30 days dividing the days into 1h intervals and finding the one person who hit most claims in any of those intervals

for TOP QUALITY i would assign numbers from 1-10 basing on how many ores of given type are recorded in the system and the rare-er one are obviously scored higher ...

I like these : ) they are great and i even have an idea for small badges to light up under the players name if he is one of these
and maybe have a row for All Time High for these too

Now since i added Miner on the run you should join LBML

Ido

dr3w · May 12, 2011

Minphetamine King: max(ClaimsPerHour)

(need preventive banning of Strash, RADDIM and others)

Ido · May 15, 2011

Want to turn up the heat on this discussion

I have created a partially working Mock Up for the signature ... some of the data is generated from the website and some is hand added (the rank for example)

Maybe after seeing this you guys will have some constructive comments for me ?

Hotei · May 23, 2011

Hi Ido, saw the list of resources on your website and the points awarded to them. May i suggest that you tie these resources and their points to the MU of the resource. You could tie it to entropedia or something so its hands off.

To me the best miner is the one that can consistently find the highest MU, as that is what will help that player to eventually profit.

For example i would assume most people would agree that finding narc (2 points) is better then finding azzu (5 points).

Hotei

Ido · May 24, 2011

There are 2 approaches to it ...

1) reward people with points for feeding the system with items that are simply not there or are more rare than others ...

2) reward people with points for feeding the system with items that are in high demand for crafters ...

Both approaches are valid and i feel a strong need to make multiple rankings i think to satisfy all demands

im thinking of having 1 main ranking as it is now or possibly changed a little and then multiple sub rankings displaying the top 10 miners in that rank and having the top 1 or 3 hold achievements etc which would be shown temporarily while they dominate the ranking ...

Aside from other achievements which will be permanent ..

Ido

Question: Miners Ranking

How to determine the best miner?

Q1: Use 7 Days

Q1: Use 30 Days

-

Q2: Sum the number of claims

Q2: Assign Rarity Points and Sum The Points

-

Q3: No Bonus

Q3: Give % Bonus to Well Rounded Miners

Stalker

Prowler

Elite

Stalker

Slayer

Stalker

Guardian

Stalker

Guardian

Stalker

Marauder

Marauder

Stalker

Old Alpha

Slayer

Stalker

Slayer

Old

Old Alpha

Stalker

Stalker

Elite

Mature

Stalker

Mature

Stalker

Elite

Stalker

Guardian

Stalker