Mobs and PvP

Dear Kim, I know your opinion about mobs and pvp, that they are "part of the danger". But is it really balanced when someone with absolutely no skills whatsoever can bring 8500 hp mutated chirpies without any cost, and hardly any effort at all?

You visited a few Land Grabs not long ago, and you saw how great the battles were when there were turrets to prevent mob trains, didn't that look like more fun?

I agree that mob trains have always been a part of pvp, but in the old days it cost some armor/fap decay, and everyone couldn't create those massive mob trains. Now its way too easy with cars.

I hope someone will give this some thought, thanks in advance

From what i understand of the WoF posts that the chirpies are there as a temporary spawn to facilitate WoF finals. since WoF is over i expect them to be gone with the next VU.

Granted those chirpies are why i havnt been at the ashi rig much as they seriously inhibit my tactical abilities there. Those things are worse than the atrox and spiders people bring in.
At least you can see those when someone is training then to know to jump in a vtol or get to high ground and snipe the car out from under the noob.
the chirpies, not so much.

here is to hoping they will be gone soon, most likely tuesday after MM is over when they put out the first VU for the year.

Kattfres said:

Dear Kim, I know your opinion about mobs and pvp, that they are "part of the danger". But is it really balanced when someone with absolutely no skills whatsoever can bring 8500 hp mutated chirpies without any cost, and hardly any effort at all?

You visited a few Land Grabs not long ago, and you saw how great the battles were when there were turrets to prevent mob trains, didn't that look like more fun?

I agree that mob trains have always been a part of pvp, but in the old days it cost some armor/fap decay, and everyone couldn't create those massive mob trains. Now its way too easy with cars.

I hope someone will give this some thought, thanks in advance

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Problem is not the mobs imo , i say vehicle ruin the rig oil They changed the area where u can get near claim its like 30-40m but its still to small since some guys can stay in vtols and wait for oil. Whats the point to shoot a vtol when it got 400 hp...

Alina said:

Problem is not the mobs imo , i say vehicle ruin the rig oil They changed the area where u can get near claim its like 30-40m but its still to small since some guys can stay in vtols and wait for oil. Whats the point to shoot a vtol when it got 400 hp...

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Yes, make 500m around rig vehicle free, and keep tp restriction as it is today.

ermik said:

Yes, make 500m around rig vehicle free, and keep tp restriction as it is today.

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Agree

Yes I agree with the vehicles ofc, and it's also because of vehicles that mob training is too easy.

Also, let's not forget the issue with the immortal bug. At the moment there are several people who are immortal 100% of their time at oil rig/pvp4. And we can't be expected to record all these secondary/third etc avatars to ban them, they will just make new ones.

Kattfres said:

Yes I agree with the vehicles ofc, and it's also because of vehicles that mob training is too easy.

Also, let's not forget the issue with the immortal bug. At the moment there are several people who are immortal 100% of their time at oil rig/pvp4. And we can't be expected to record all these secondary/third etc avatars to ban them, they will just make new ones.

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If you happen to catch anyone cheating with the immortality bug please let us know through a support case, swift action is taken once we verify a transgression, I've even slapped one or two with the ban-hammer myself.

Kim|Calypso said:

If you happen to catch anyone cheating with the immortality bug please let us know through a support case, swift action is taken once we verify a transgression, I've even slapped one or two with the ban-hammer myself.

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Does this include people using speed hacks in space?

Kattfres said:

Dear Kim, I know your opinion about mobs and pvp, that they are "part of the danger". But is it really balanced when someone with absolutely no skills whatsoever can bring 8500 hp mutated chirpies without any cost, and hardly any effort at all?

You visited a few Land Grabs not long ago, and you saw how great the battles were when there were turrets to prevent mob trains, didn't that look like more fun?

I agree that mob trains have always been a part of pvp, but in the old days it cost some armor/fap decay, and everyone couldn't create those massive mob trains. Now its way too easy with cars.

I hope someone will give this some thought, thanks in advance

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You bring up a good point however I have as you said made my position on this issue known before. If there are ways within existing game mechanics of stopping someone from doing something to you then I really don't like to put some safeguard. The reason being that it is a slippery slope, what will we prevent next? Pretty soon it wont be a sandbox game anymore.

With that said everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development.

Thank you for bringing this up so I could share my thoughts on the subject

Cheers

That sounds like a good idea Kim.
Hopefully it is a small enough range to prevent the worst mobs from being trained in, in significant quantities and maturities yet still close enough to set Rex the Rig Pet Stalker on those who are bugged invulnerable.
Still would be the issue of their vehicle being invulnerable with them, so that they can just hide in that from the stalker.

Kim|Calypso said:

You bring up a good point however I have as you said made my position on this issue known before. If there are ways within existing game mechanics of stopping someone from doing something to you then I really don't like to put some safeguard. The reason being that it is a slippery slope, what will we prevent next? Pretty soon it wont be a sandbox game anymore.

With that said everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development.

Thank you for bringing this up so I could share my thoughts on the subject

Cheers

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That sounds like a great solution imo, thanks for your answer

Kim|Calypso said:

If you happen to catch anyone cheating with the immortality bug please let us know through a support case, swift action is taken once we verify a transgression, I've even slapped one or two with the ban-hammer myself.

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Okay, but the main problem is that these are all new avatars, and new ones always seem to appear So it doesn't really hurt them when they are banned.

Fishface said:

Does this include people using speed hacks in space?

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Kim|Calypso not Kim|Mindark

Kim|Calypso said:

The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development.

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Not bad. Look back to Everquest though for a real answer to this, because max follow range, while fixing one problem, creates another. Here's what happens:

Player A is a mob trainer. With the new max follow range the mobs do not follow. Problem solved.

Player B is a budget hunter. With the new max follow range, the mob breaks off and heads for home after a certain amount of steps from the original point of engagement. The mob however retains its damage. Players then begin kiting large mobs, bringing them to the edge of their follow range in order to take advantage of them attempting to snap back to their point of origin. This results in a loss to Calypso, and player frustration.

The whole solution is to implement, as Everquest did, a max follow range that becomes void if given the following criteria:

• The mob does damage to the target within 60 seconds.
• The mob receives damage within 60 seconds.

This will completely eliminate mob training, as player A will have to expend capital and time to maintain a train, ensuring that the train moves very slowly, and is very expensive. A large train wont move at all. It will also eliminate players kiting, as the mob will attack, regardless of distance, if it is basically engaged in combat on virtually any level. If after 60 seconds no damage is received or given, then likely much damage is regenerated, and the kite becomes a zero sum game or the economy is reduced to less than 2.5. This is of no advantage to the hunter, and becomes a source of revenue for Planet Calypso for any player that attempts it.

Magyar_Republic said:

Look back to Everquest though for a real answer to this, because max follow range, while fixing one problem, creates another.

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It is arguably MA's biggest problem they have with the solutions they implement that while fixing one problem it creates another problem (or several).

I think the solution suggested here is really really good, as it takes follow-on thinking into account, so a very big to Everquest and respect to Magyar for repeating the idea with Everquest as the source.

Designers and programmers should always ask themselves: what would the consequences be of this change or that change? We see a lack of this all over the place it seems to me.
However, also a big plus rep to Kim for writing about what they are considering as a solution, as it gives the playerbase a chance to speak up too, and the players together have A LOT of experience that could help, as here in this thread!

Kim|Calypso said:

With that said everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development.

Cheers

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Guild Wars 2 has this exact same features and it works great, i thought about bringing this possibility up but you did, it wouldnt be rocket science to apply such a setting to mob in the area OR in general

Kim|Calypso said:

The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back.

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I have to admit there are two places I use this when hunting: At spider crater to make the spawn more manageble, and north of Fort Victoria because of the (imho) stupid mix of mobs (high level thorios and thorios ON SAME SPOT - usually same problem at the LA SW of Miwak). To practically hunt there without "sorting" the mobs would require an imp fap for me. (The problem is of course that Thorios are highly aggro, tend to ninja-spawn, and Viking/Polaris protects at the most 0.5 points against them.) As for big spiders, when I had a few rutuba parts I realized that at provider and above the regen was too high for HL12(L). Now imagine that with my normal gear, ghost+plasma rifle or something like that...

(I don't do mobtrains at other people, I just try to move them to a single spot.)