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Mindark increasing the cost to mine

dr3w said:
I'm pure gambler, YAY. Hey, you just said - big hofs still possible just a bit more rare?

What about this shit, currently I fucking with it:

7WMzDi9.png


Can you guess turnover here, taking in account that I amped with lvl7? And it's all planetary (Collapso)?

Can you guess size of that fucking "higher value find" which I just hit?
Click to expand...

Mine was even better, sorry do not have the screenshot, but I was "waiting" to get higher value find with
500+ ore claims
400+ enmater claims
using lvl5 mostly but also burned 5 d-class amps.

Btw. This mission seem to be bugged or it was disabled.

syntax said:
I also want to point out something. We are talking about 500 USD loss per month... on playing a video game. Let that sink in for a moment. $500/mo is a car payment! I know there are players that are spending/losing even more than this.

Sometimes, it's reading stuff like this in the forums that discourages me from playing. Where do people get the money for this? I can't be the only player that sees this and thinks "this is a game for rich people, I'm out."
Click to expand...

That is why you can consider start this game a virtual casino I think.
 
Last edited:
This is not exactly on topic but: "The daily mining work" mission along with another mission disappeared from my mission log. Anyone else having this problem?

On topic:
I have been tracking results again for a bit now and it seems average tt return is still somewhere above 90%. The swings however have been much bigger. Most runs were between 50% (very seldom) and 80% tt return. Every now and then there is one good run that brings the whole thing back up.

I am not sure this is a good idea in terms of player retention. Things should eventually average out but its possible to go down a few hundred peds and that might be too much for new players.

Thank god I dont have the job of balancing this :D
 
Hey again

Thats what happen to me too Returns end at 50-85% but i didnt get the bringback global or Hof to get it to Overall 90% .

Maybe this days its better to go for no MU Ores sometimes to get a nice HOF on it
 
Sarian said:
Hey again

Thats what happen to me too Returns end at 50-85% but i didnt get the bringback global or Hof to get it to Overall 90% .

Maybe this days its better to go for no MU Ores sometimes to get a nice HOF on it
Click to expand...

ive tried.. nothing helps.. so better stick in MU to even get something back
 
Neil Stockton said:
Right now, how many drops do you have to make before getting to 95%? Hard to say since there's a huge randomness factor (do you get the big hof on your second run or your 50th run?). I would say you need to assume you won't reach 95% until at least 20k drops. Some will reach it earlier of course, and it's so erratic that it's hard to set a target number of drops. Some will have to go longer than that.
Click to expand...

Well tbh Neil if it is anywhere near that many it just aint practical for me to do any mining, not just because I don't want to have that much money "owed" to me by the loot system at a given time, but also the hours it would take to get to 20k or even 10k. I would probably hate mining by that stage...

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a little gamble now and then in a EU sense, but a big gamble lasting weeks to find out if I win or just wasted a load of time & money just sounds shit to me.

Id rather be like, ok sod it i'll go all in tonight, then bang, bang, bang.. A load of globals like in crafting..
Also have to agree with some that constant 90%+ returns are not a good thing. But the slider option would cure that, or if they made amps to work that way effectively, so the higher up the amp ladder u go the greater the volatility gets incrementally.
 
My last chunk of runs. About a week of mining(been working RL to much :( )

There 350-400 ped runs mostly with the odd slightly bigger one

-33.24
-13.84
-381.05
-9.44
-31.51
-40.35
-89.68
-32.04
-27.45
-88.32
-26.4
-11.7
-66.96
-117.63
-94.27
-26.22
-39.22
-78.97
-92.77
-36.25
-32.44
-73.89
-21.46
-54.21
-39.08
-86.05
-41.35
-47.02
-51.52
-72.89
-61.02
-56.54
-50.765
-16.96
-88.51
-19.43
-57.2
-67.17
-26.39
-20.76
 
Kitch said:
Well tbh Neil if it is anywhere near that many it just aint practical for me to do any mining, not just because I don't want to have that much money "owed" to me by the loot system at a given time, but also the hours it would take to get to 20k or even 10k. I would probably hate mining by that stage...
Click to expand...

I agree. Hunters can get their loot cycle in a day, crafters can do it in an hour or two, why should it take weeks or months for miners to potentially see their 95% return?
 
Neil Stockton said:
I agree. Hunters can get their loot cycle in a day, crafters can do it in an hour or two, why should it take weeks or months for miners to potentially see their 95% return?
Click to expand...



because this is not a Short Term Game

Your in it for the long haul or not at all.......
 
Strash said:
because this is not a Short Term Game

Your in it for the long haul or not at all.......
Click to expand...

Well, if so, then this "long haul" game only began in October. Before that you would no doubt have called it a "Short Term Game".
 
Best thing you can do is adapt. There is a huge range of sizes of investment per drop for mining. If you don't have enough to cycle with what your currently doing to come out at a decent return maybe its time to lower the investment.

But most of all, do what you enjoy :D
 
dar hammer dei said:
Best thing you can do is adapt. There is a huge range of sizes of investment per drop for mining. If you don't have enough to cycle with what your currently doing to come out at a decent return maybe its time to lower the investment.

But most of all, do what you enjoy :D
Click to expand...

Heya

My Problem is how can you adapt that bad Returns only way to do it is stop mining and this cant be the right way
when all miners stop mining what the craftzers then do ?
 
don't worry i will still mine :)
 
MA only increase your need more bankroll to force your deposit

But calc still same

70% is fix 30% now dynamic - 70 up 130% ( TT overall )

Just keep drop nothing wrong , but if your dont like go ahead hunt prety stable this days
Dont like hunt? okay adapt or quit and leave MU (your know going increase ) for us
 
it is still sitting at 90% tt return

YES there are ups and downs and those who give up will never see that 90% tt

oh well???


Again this is not a short term game... just like Real life...... your in for the long haul
 
Strash said:
it is still sitting at 90% tt return

YES there are ups and downs and those who give up will never see that 90% tt

oh well???


Again this is not a short term game... just like Real life...... your in for the long haul
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe ist 90% TT Return but when you Need to cyle more then 100k before get the 90% thats to much for alot of Players not everyone have so much ped to spend .

Before the changes my Pedcard of 8k was enough to do lvl5 amped mining runs and now ist hard to stay Alife with this 8k i lost now 7k of it and no HOF is in sign that cover this loose .

So my Returns are at 74% TT now after this run today with MU they are at 89,56%
maybe MA now changed it to 90% Return with mu ? :scratch2:
 
Sarian said:
Yeah maybe ist 90% TT Return but when you Need to cyle more then 100k before get the 90% thats to much for alot of Players not everyone have so much ped to spend .

Before the changes my Pedcard of 8k was enough to do lvl5 amped mining runs and now ist hard to stay Alife with this 8k i lost now 7k of it and no HOF is in sign that cover this loose .

So my Returns are at 74% TT now after this run today with MU they are at 89,56%
maybe MA now changed it to 90% Return with mu ? :scratch2:
Click to expand...

An average markup of 15.5% is not enough to break even or profit when mining with level 5 amps. When mining with a level 5 amp purchased at 109% you need to obtain an average markup on your mined resources of at least 118.2% in order to break even with decay, assuming 90% tt returns over time.
 
So, mining is back to the smart and dedicated miners like it used to be?
nice :girl:
 
Acro said:
So, mining is back to the smart and dedicated miners like it used to be?
nice :girl:
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "used to be"? As long as I've been mining (only 2.5 years!) it's not been like this before.

BTW your long term returns should be over 90%... if they're at 90% you're doing something wrong or you're getting a lot of armor decay or enhancer decay. Ofc it might be worth it because of MU of resources but you should expect more than 90% otherwise.
 
Ok so im usually fairly calm in my posts but one thing im sick of people saying is. You will get 90%+ returns. All it does is give people false expectations. I for one am not complaining ive not stoped or slowed my mining at all. But if you keep saying this crap people will expect it and play out of there ped range. Im well over 200k TT of mining in last 6 months and am at 82.54% at the time I post this.

Lower your amps or completely remove them. use rookie finders if cant manage with unamped. No point telling all the new people "don't worry you will get to 90%"

Well Im sorry it just dosnt happen to everyone. Don't spend what you cant afford to lose.
 
dar hammer dei said:
Ok so im usually fairly calm in my posts but one thing im sick of people saying is. You will get 90%+ returns. All it does is give people false expectations. I for one am not complaining ive not stoped or slowed my mining at all. But if you keep saying this crap people will expect it and play out of there ped range. Im well over 200k TT of mining in last 6 months and am at 82.54% at the time I post this.

Lower your amps or completely remove them. use rookie finders if cant manage with unamped. No point telling all the new people "don't worry you will get to 90%"

Well Im sorry it just dosnt happen to everyone. Don't spend what you cant afford to lose.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind you will probably get lower TT return if you amp or if you don't mine properly. So there's no guarantee. 95+ is only for unamped.
 
Well one thing is for sure. I do not over-lap probes. I spent a lot of time measuring run speed of my avatar and time to travel distance to figure it out. Also have a buffer built in for error. I leave a good chunk of time between visiting same areas. lately have not even had time to do same areas in 1 day. So amps drop returns by over 10%?
 
Strash said:
it is still sitting at 90% tt return

YES there are ups and downs and those who give up will never see that 90% tt

oh well???


Again this is not a short term game... just like Real life...... your in for the long haul
Click to expand...

What do you think how many players this game would have next summer if crafters and hunters would have 70% return for few months and few 100K ped spent?

Mining becomes activity only for players who have alot of ped, player who deposits 10-50$ a month can forget about mining.

:computer:
 
dar hammer dei said:
Well one thing is for sure. I do not over-lap probes. I spent a lot of time measuring run speed of my avatar and time to travel distance to figure it out. Also have a buffer built in for error. I leave a good chunk of time between visiting same areas. lately have not even had time to do same areas in 1 day. So amps drop returns by over 10%?
Click to expand...

Yeah it could decrease returns by 10%. I don't have enough data for amped mining though so I really can't say for sure. It would probably depend on the minerals in your areas and the size of the amp.
 
I use mostly level 2's. I burn about 50 level 2's for every 1 or 2 level 7 I on occasion do. I mine alt /gazz /narc on rock. And narc/nik on caly.
 
Rocket192 said:
An average markup of 15.5% is not enough to break even or profit when mining with level 5 amps. When mining with a level 5 amp purchased at 109% you need to obtain an average markup on your mined resources of at least 118.2% in order to break even with decay, assuming 90% tt returns over time.
Click to expand...

Heya

I Know that i Need MU of 20% or more to BE or Profit with lvl5 amps thats why i used them only on Nicks/Alt at the time where the mu was at 140% or Energized/Dianthus with 160/300% yes Dianthus had so a nice MU last year :)

What i dont really understand that ist not possible anymore to BE with lvl3 Amps at 103%MU and avg MU of 18,8-20% after a 100k ped cyled time you know that are 50k probes droped and over a time of Little more then 3 month. (this is a Long run for me).

At my beginning Mining carrier 2 years before i got nice globals and Hofs unamped after a cyle of 10k droped probes and now ist nearly imposible to even get a global with lvl3/5 Amp mostly you got rarely Hofs around 250-1k Ped

When i compare that to my short Boorum Hunt run of 10k Ammo spend with 15 globals this is not the way how i like the mining System to be cause a 10k run of lvl3 amps Ends in 0 globals when Planetside .
 
Sarian said:
Heya

I Know that i Need MU of 20% or more to BE or Profit with lvl5 amps thats why i used them only on Nicks/Alt at the time where the mu was at 140% or Energized/Dianthus with 160/300% yes Dianthus had so a nice MU last year :)

What i dont really understand that ist not possible anymore to BE with lvl3 Amps at 103%MU and avg MU of 18,8-20% after a 100k ped cyled time you know that are 50k probes droped and over a time of Little more then 3 month. (this is a Long run for me).

At my beginning Mining carrier 2 years before i got nice globals and Hofs unamped after a cyle of 10k droped probes and now ist nearly imposible to even get a global with lvl3/5 Amp mostly you got rarely Hofs around 250-1k Ped

When i compare that to my short Boorum Hunt run of 10k Ammo spend with 15 globals this is not the way how i like the mining System to be cause a 10k run of lvl3 amps Ends in 0 globals when Planetside .
Click to expand...

Well what MA has effectively done to mining (in response to people complaining of the february-june system), is lowered the amount of globals/hofs to the point where considerably large claim you find is a hof, and those larger hofs replace the 5-6 globals you would have gotten in the time being. So your potential 89% tt return run is now 74% (or whatever % you want) because of the missing 5-6 globals. BUT if you have ungodly amounts of ped then you can withstand the extremely poor returns until you hit your huge hof bringing you back close to 90%.

In my own controlled experiments with the current system mining amped is not possible with fewer than 8k peds.. beginning with level 2 amps and then 20k peds for mining with level 5 amps.

The real kicker is that even unamped mining will require a ped float around 2-5k peds to assure that you don't run out.

This makes it virtually impossible for a newer player to succeed mining (without lots of $$$), which results in rage quits and leads to horrible player retention. Ultimately the opposite of MA's stated goal of decreasing newbie cost to play.
 
Well it is Actually back to how mining was .... Returns were lower always... you would have to wait weeks of mining to see a hof etc......

but it's the markup...... that is the key.........



TT will come with Time.. soo keep your Time going with MU

it happen to me i lost almost 10k ped and i logged it all for you......... so when this type of thread would come up..........


and yes you need a avg of 120-25% to actually see some profit off a 108% or lower amp..... but when the great mining change occurred and softened everything up... you could only get 115% avg mu.... eeek horrible you think any of you profited??? even though tt was slightly higher??? think about it ... oh snap you didn't....

now you got a chance . BE wise in how you mine your way through entropia....... it was always a tough universe to get use too

but what doesn't kill ya makes you stronger.
 
I'm almost sure that all this tweaking of the mining system in the past few months came with "unexpected results (aka bugs)", and we know that when it doesn't cost MA money they tend to last longer
(even Monria took them more than 24hours and was costing them money) ...


I don't have enough data but I think that the returns are certainly not attractive to put new people into mining without revealing too much information (gathered by expensive trial and errors)



Strash said:
Well it is Actually back to how mining was .... Returns were lower always... you would have to wait weeks of mining to see a hof etc......
Click to expand...

He probably is right
 
Strash said:
Well it is Actually back to how mining was .... Returns were lower always... you would have to wait weeks of mining to see a hof etc......

but it's the markup...... that is the key.........



TT will come with Time.. soo keep your Time going with MU

it happen to me i lost almost 10k ped and i logged it all for you......... so when this type of thread would come up..........


and yes you need a avg of 120-25% to actually see some profit off a 108% or lower amp..... but when the great mining change occurred and softened everything up... you could only get 115% avg mu.... eeek horrible you think any of you profited??? even though tt was slightly higher??? think about it ... oh snap you didn't....

now you got a chance . BE wise in how you mine your way through entropia....... it was always a tough universe to get use too

but what doesn't kill ya makes you stronger.
Click to expand...

You have to understand that MU comes from other players. That means you need other people to play the game in order to get your MU. If MA continues to scare people with these awful returns then there won't be many people playing. There aren't many sane people out there willing to risk thousands of US dollars dropping a probe over and over again for months if not years in hope of getting there money back. To either break even or make 1$ per hour spent.
 
well i stopped mining..

well looking at my hunting sheet with -7.4k i should stop hunting, too.
(last wtf run on ark - 1.2k ped run with 1 global and a jolly 69% tt return = -366ped)


if MA's plan is to only let players do the exact same thing 10.000 times in row then they even
will loose ppl like me who are used to the pain.

no way for casual players with family and some Rl left to be feasable


will trade now and make some peds back but im thinking of buying a cld and just lurk around ^_°

have fun with the MU!

PS:
i thought of depo another 50€ and do more hunting on same mobs
but instead i bought a new couch table for the GF

maybe it helps the game more ;D
 
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