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New Mob Dmg Types

Midori Fairlona said:
OK. Which mobs are we meant to be looking at? A list on the first post of this thread may help to focus efforts. ;)
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Hehe I just happened to be making the list as you responded. However, your idea of placing it on the first post was a good one, and I've done just that.
 
Tor said:
Tsk Tsk damage type is wrong on wiki in my opinion. I use knight +5a's, except gloves, which are paladin. And usual dmg is about 40-56 from young, and then random mid 20's, which I attribute to paladin.

Also, that mob is strange, cause, even higher maturities, ravager, soldier, etc, never even broke 70 dmg on me, the most I was hit was 65.
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According to current wiki data, the young does 55.60 at most to knight+5a, and on avarage 40.20. Seems to fit your findings exactly. Except for the larger maturities you seem to get less damage.
 
JohnCapital said:
Mobs without data (according to pe-wiki)
Miner Bot
Mulaak'f
Mulmun
Muluk-Hir
Osseocollum (not new, but still no data)
Phasm (not new)

Mobs with questionable data
Malcruentor
Scipulor

Have fun, happy testers.
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I will test some more tomorrow ;)
 
Malcruetor Mature

Without armor dmg from 170 - 190

With Knight + 5a's dmg from 113 - 130.

Also, young did 113 dmg on me, and old did 123. I guess they do all types of close dmg, cause all of my knight's protection was subtracted from their dmg.
 
Some base data for Phasm:

Unarmoured Vs. Phasm young

Total hits: 35
High: 112.3
Low: 60.8

Mean: 88.1

Lower Quartile: 71.8
Median: 87.9
Upper Quartile: 102.5
 
Mob: Phasm
Maturity: Young
Armour: Pixie
Plates: None
Max Damage: 100.9
Min Damage: 47.0
Armour Decayed: Yes

Total hits: 15
Mean: 70.92

Lower Quartile: 54.8
Median: 67.5
Upper Quartile: 88.8
 
Mob: Phasm
Maturity: Young
Armour: Kobold
Plates: None
Max Damage: 96.1
Min Damage: 43.6
Armour Decayed: Yes

Total hits: 16
Mean: 64.57

Lower Quartile: 48.4
Median: 62.2
Upper Quartile: 78.75

I am not too clear on the method of working out the percentages from this data, so I will leave it for someone else to figure out. However, I would have expected the damage to have reduced somewhat more if the Kobold's Cold and Burn protection had come into play. I think it is only the slightly higher impact protection that distinguishes this from the Pixie test.
 
Tor said:
Tsk Tsk damage type is wrong on wiki in my opinion. I use knight +5a's, except gloves, which are paladin. And usual dmg is about 40-56 from young, and then random mid 20's, which I attribute to paladin.

Also, that mob is strange, cause, even higher maturities, ravager, soldier, etc, never even broke 70 dmg on me, the most I was hit was 65.
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The damage type data on wiki comes from my testing which is detailed earlier in this thread and is, I believe, robust. However the maximum damage levels for all maturities did not come from me, as I only tested against one maturity. I'm not sure where these came from, but perhaps these are still estimations?
 
Midori Fairlona said:
Mob: Phasm
Maturity: Young
Armour: Kobold
Plates: None
Max Damage: 96.1
Min Damage: 43.6
Armour Decayed: Yes

Total hits: 16
Mean: 64.57

Lower Quartile: 48.4
Median: 62.2
Upper Quartile: 78.75

I am not too clear on the method of working out the percentages from this data, so I will leave it for someone else to figure out. However, I would have expected the damage to have reduced somewhat more if the Kobold's Cold and Burn protection had come into play. I think it is only the slightly higher impact protection that distinguishes this from the Pixie test.
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Agreed. It looks so far that the kobold is protecting impact and cut to its full extent and that there is no cold or burn. For further testing I would suggest a little more without armour so that we can get an accurate figure for the maximum hit (get as close as you can to the biggest hit being double the lowest hit), and some with goblin so that we can rule out (or possibly include) acid damage.

Thanks for the info.
 
Jimmy B said:
One thing I'd point out in case its been missed/forgotten is that damage is offered to both plates and armor, which will need to be taken into account in your calculations.

e.g. Let's say a mob does 50% Penetration, 50% Acid and can hit for a maximum of 40 damage (ie. 20 Penetration, 20 Acid). If your wearing a hypothetical armor that protects against 20 Penetration and 0 Acid, and also plates that protect against 10 Penetration and 0 Acid then the 20 Penetration the mob hits you for is offered to both the armor and the plates. So you oddly get 30 protection against the mob and it hits you for a maximum of 10 (rather than the 20 you might expect).
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Hold the phone! Is this correct? I knew before that you paid decay as if the damage is offered to both armor and plates, but not that you can get additional actual protection. It wouldn't really suprise me though--I think the whole deal is just some poorly thought out programming.

Is this reflected in the pe-wiki damage -v- armor/plates calculations?
 
I used armor decay to determin the damage of phasm. It was a lot of fiddeling with values, but it am 99% certain it is 20% impact, 80% cut. I will edit wiki with those values.

Gremlin:
70.3HP -> 2.375pec decay -> 24.0 absorbed
50.2HP -> 2.375pec decay -> 24.0 absorbed
36.7HP -> 2.102pec decay -> 22.3 absorbed

Ghoul:
47.5HP -> 3.637pec decay -> 30.5 absorbed
64.5HP -> 4.575pec decay -> 35.0 absorbed
75.2HP -> 5.216pec decay -> 37.8 absorbed

You can do the math yourself ;)

ps, am off to test minerbots now, results will be in soon.
 
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Miner bot:

Gremlin:
4x2.375 decay -> 24 absorbed -> damage types = impact + cut

Ghoul:
Decay somewhere between 4 and 5 pec -> 30 to 37 absorbed.

I would say its most likely they do 50% impact, 50% cut. Needs more testing to be sure, can also be somthing like 40% - 60%.
 
Coop_ said:
Hold the phone! Is this correct? I knew before that you paid decay as if the damage is offered to both armor and plates, but not that you can get additional actual protection. It wouldn't really suprise me though--I think the whole deal is just some poorly thought out programming.

Is this reflected in the pe-wiki damage -v- armor/plates calculations?
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yes its correct. And yes I think its reflected in wiki.
 
I see now that someone listed dmg stats of 50/50 cut/impact into wiki. Can anyone confirm these dmg stats?

Also noticed we still need info for Osseocollum and the mul-family of PVP4

Obviously those will require some high level assistance.
 
Reviving this thread because I did a little testing on Malcruentors tonight. Thanks to Rico Readbird Killjoy for helping out by being eaten repeatedly :)

On a Malcruentor Mature, we got a range of 114.3 - 221.9 without armour, so we're looking at a max damage of somewhere between 222 and 228.

With Shogun I got from 82.9 - 188.3.

We had a very frustrating time trying to get a better range than that before the mob turreted itself, and it takes a LONG time to get a Malcruentor to a revive, so that was that.

Based on that data so far, I would hypothesise that a Mature does 112-224 damage and that it is indeed Stab/Cut/Impact (meaning 30 protection from Shogun which would be 82-194).

Clearly that's not enough data to be 100%, but based on the shogun data, if it isn't S/C/I it would have to be something really weird like Cut/Impact/Burn, so I think the S/C/I is probably safe.
 
Hey guys, good work on this so far. I'd help out but i usually don't wear armor and i don't have enough HP for malcruentors, either. :(

Next time i do decide to hunt one of these mobs in question i'll take note of damages, though. It's enough trouble watching for green dots when on mulman without writing down dmgs. :laugh:

I do have a question about Second Entities. Someone has changed the damages again in the last few months, i think. There was quite a long discussion on EF about those and i don't recall that it got settled, but the values on wiki now seem rather odd based on the results in that thread. Can anyone comment on SE damages? I might go do a decay-test with dragon to at least establish some types.

Anyway, keep up the good work.
 
AFAIK the data for seg on entropedia is correct.
 
when I owned a paradox set I tested alot of mobs that do big cut, I'm 100% sure mobs that do mixed dmg types also do variable levels of these dmgs per type.
 
kygon said:
when I owned a paradox set I tested alot of mobs that do big cut, I'm 100% sure mobs that do mixed dmg types also do variable levels of these dmgs per type.
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Im not 100% sure what your try to say, but how do you know this and what does it matter? If a mob does at most 50 impact and 50 cut it doesnt realy matter it hits with 40/30 or 35/35. The damage you recieve is the same.
 
Well, it's not exactly a dasp, but we do have a new mob (Kerberos) so I suppose I should bring this thread up again.

Still missing dmg stats on its big brother, Osseocollum, the Mul family and a few other mobs.

Longtooth we could assume is a exo knock-off and say 100% impact there, but since they are an event mob, (and about as dangerous as an exo alpha) it almost doesn't matter.
 
I did some testing without armour on the Kerberos to find some max damages. I await further developments before I put armour on.

Youngs: gave me damage ranging from 5.5 - 9.9
Mature: 7.0 - 12.7
Old: 8.3 - 15.9
Provider (very little testing): 12.0 - 17.1

From this data it looks like max damages unarmoured are:

Young: 10
Mature: 13
Old: 16
Provider: 19 if the same pattern is followed but unproven with the limited data.

There doesn't seem to be anything to suggest any unusual attack type, so I suspect it will be limited to some or all of stab, cut and impact.
 
Are there any good spawns of Kerberos around? I have seen a few near Swamp Camp and there are reports of them on Atlas Island, but I have yet to find anywhere with a reasonable density.
 
Midori Fairlona said:
Are there any good spawns of Kerberos around? I have seen a few near Swamp Camp and there are reports of them on Atlas Island, but I have yet to find anywhere with a reasonable density.
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Kerberos can find on Atlas Island South-East
 
I just did some more Kerberos testing, using Settler+1B.

Against a young I got 3.2 - 7.8 damage.

Against an old I got 13.8 - 6.4 damage.

1Bs took no decay so we can rule out penetration and burn (not surprising).

Based on my naked damage tests it looks like the Settler is probably protecting 2 damage for all hits.

Settler is 1 impact, 1 cut and 0.5 stab (plus pen and burn which we already eliminated).

So I'd suggest that the protection comes from impact and cut only, perhaps 50% on each, though we can't really tell the % from this data.

This doesn't rule out acid, electric or cold but they seem unlikely.
 
Midori Fairlona said:
Are there any good spawns of Kerberos around? I have seen a few near Swamp Camp and there are reports of them on Atlas Island, but I have yet to find anywhere with a reasonable density.
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The biggest spawn so far seems to be at the old Umbranoid camp east Of Scylla. Only Kerbys and GDs there too ;)
 
Oleg said:
I just did some more Kerberos testing, using Settler+1B.

Against a young I got 3.2 - 7.8 damage.

Against an old I got 13.8 - 6.4 damage.

1Bs took no decay so we can rule out penetration and burn (not surprising).

Based on my naked damage tests it looks like the Settler is probably protecting 2 damage for all hits.

Settler is 1 impact, 1 cut and 0.5 stab (plus pen and burn which we already eliminated).

So I'd suggest that the protection comes from impact and cut only, perhaps 50% on each, though we can't really tell the % from this data.

This doesn't rule out acid, electric or cold but they seem unlikely.
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I took 40 hits each from young, mature and old. Assuming the average to be 75% of max damage, I got 10, 13 and 16 respectively and already updated Wiki. I haven't used armour since VU 9 so I can't offer any better info on types though.
 
Redfrog said:
I took 40 hits each from young, mature and old. Assuming the average to be 75% of max damage, I got 10, 13 and 16 respectively and already updated Wiki. I haven't used armour since VU 9 so I can't offer any better info on types though.
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Thanks, but there was no need to update Wikipedia as those values were already there after the testing that I previously did :)

Good to hear that you got the same results though. I usually go with the max/min method of determining the damage, as it isn't dependent on sampling size, but your method backs it up.

I've been meaning to do some more on this but even though I have been hunting Kerberos a lot, every time I go hunting them I always forget to take armour with me, since I don't use it for the actual hunt.

My plan is to try with goblin - if I'm right about it being 50% impact/50% cut then using goblin should result in exactly half the damage ranges on maturities up to Provider (because 50% of the damage is completely protected against, and 50% of it is not protected at all).
 
I did the Kerberos test with (unplated) Goblin last night.

Kerberos Old gave me minimum of 2.0 and maximum 3.9 damage.

That means at minimum damage, goblin protects 6 out of 8 and at maximum it protects 12 out of 16.

I therefore conclude: 75% Impact, 25% Cut

I'm going to do a final test to rule out acid/electric/cold but I'm 99% certain that this is correct now.
 
That makes a lot of sense Oleg, +rep for your work :)
MA seem fond of using 75/25 Impact/Cut, so that's another pointer to that ratio being correct. It also means Pixie offers the perfect balance of protection there too.

I ran into a Provider the other day and took the chance to work out his damage - the results and conclusions are in the Bestiary - but using 60 hits this time.

I'll go looking for a Guardian next time I'm bored :D
 
Oleg said:
I did the Kerberos test with (unplated) Goblin last night.

Kerberos Old gave me minimum of 2.0 and maximum 3.9 damage.

That means at minimum damage, goblin protects 6 out of 8 and at maximum it protects 12 out of 16.

I therefore conclude: 75% Impact, 25% Cut

I'm going to do a final test to rule out acid/electric/cold but I'm 99% certain that this is correct now.
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This is odd, but in my own tests with a young, I couldn't get it to do more than 2.0 damage through unplated goblin, after taking at least 40 hits. That would mean goblin is protecting 80% of the 10 max dam for a young.

But clearly more than 20% of the old's hits got through to you, so its hard to square the two. Perhaps this young was just taking it easy on me.

Is it possible that damage type would be different by maturity?
 
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