Mining returns

FAIR WARNING:
Dear newcomers, dear oldtimers,
What you`ll see below, is what you can expect even after being 10+ years in EU!

Hi,
Did anyone notice any decrease in mining tt returns lately?

I`m always mining amped, mostly cheap lvl3 and lvl5 amps, planetside (Caly, both continents, usually outside taxed LAs).
I`m usually using a f105 or a Ziplex Z20 (L) finder (sometimes with depth enhancers, but rarely).
My last mining runs are as below:

Run 1:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 151 peds
% return: 77%

Run 2:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 136 peds
% return: 69%

Run 3:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 125 peds
% return: 63%

Run 4:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 121 peds
% return: 61%

Run 5:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 191 peds (had a small 67 pedder global)
% return: 97%

Run 6:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 91 peds (!)
% return: 46% (!)

Total in: 6 x 196 = 1176
Total out: 815
Average % return: 69%

I`m mining carefully, not overdropping / overlapping / overmining areas.
I have my good MU areas (although MU won`t help with such low tt returns).
I didn`t even count in the finder`s decay or the excavator`s decay.

I didn`t have anything above 90% hunting in betwen my mining runs.
I didn`t have any big hits / positive runs mining or hunting before, during, or after these mining runs.
(actually nothing above 1k in more than 1 year)

For MA: this is how you get the people to stop playing....

Any thoughts?

Update after run 8 https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ing-returns&p=3588084&viewfull=1#post3588084:
Total in: 1176 + 469.5 = 1645.5
Total out: 815+ 287 = 1102
Average % return: 67%

Update after run 10 https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ing-returns&p=3588192&viewfull=1#post3588192:
Total in: 1645.5 + 469.5 = 2115
Total out: 1102 + 344 = 1446
Average % return: 68%

Update after run 12:
Total in: 2115 + 469.5 = 2584.5
Total out: 1446 + 287 = 1733
Average % return: 67%

I`m done with this.
Lessons learned: "eco" is for idiots, MU is for idiots, skills and gear are for idiots willing to offer their wallet to MA.

You are doing very small runs , so it's irrelevant, with one amp on every run you cannot see if the return is good or not.
Make it like this use 3-4 at least , maybe after first 2 or 3 you have bad return but o. The last one luck changes and give you back the lost from the first ones .
It's the same with hunting you cannot say that after a 50 ped run you have bad return cuz you had only 30 ped back.


Edited: but here comes another question , when you are mining are you seeking for MU or for an possible lucky ATH?

Sitting at around 60% TT return since coming back from a long break, you can see in my log, last few runs were terrible, though before my break/withdrawal I was doing well. My disciple seems to be doing very well so maybe it's just bad luck.

Usually I've found mining returns stabilize in 4-5k drops or sooner... but nothing is guaranteed in EU

Hi bro,

Like livius said, maybe you need to drop more (over 10k probes or so) and see the average tt return...

PS: Thanks for giving me the coordination in game All the best and hope you will find the uber hof soon

livius said:

You are doing very small runs , so it's irrelevant, with one amp on every run you cannot see if the return is good or not.
Make it like this use 3-4 at least , maybe after first 2 or 3 you have bad return but o. The last one luck changes and give you back the lost from the first ones .
It's the same with hunting you cannot say that after a 50 ped run you have bad return cuz you had only 30 ped back.
Edited: but here comes another question , when you are mining are you seeking for MU or for an possible lucky ATH?

Click to expand...

well, 200-300 peds runs are irrelevent for those used to do 1k runs...
I`ve been playing for 10+ years (with breaks) the same way
200-300 peds runs mining / hunting, if returns are decent I`d do 1 more run, if not I`d stop
I usually hit the average 90% even in 2-3 runs, because I do small amps / small mobs
(and btw, 30 peds return after a 50 ped run hunting punies is very bad and COMPLETELY different from the same 50 peds run on atrox... It`s all about the level you`re playing at)
to answer your last question, obviously I`m not looking for an ATH, I`m not playing at that level... Usually I`m able to get decent MU for what I do, I`m looking for the average 90% tt return
the problem is I`m far from that...

Yes I did notice that. And for those who say you need to drop more probes, that is absurd. Mining started being shittie for me in the past two or three months, not sure if MA changed anything, but I haven't managed to understand what I am doing wrong, since the method I used worked fine and in the end I would break even at least.

Mining on Caly is lately characterized by:

• lower HR
• increased volatility
• and top-heavy multiplier distribution.

In other words, just like Arkadia.

I shouldn't complain, got two unamped XXs this month, but for those who didn't it's of course depressing.

Mining was tweaked (once again) sometime towards the end of May.... MA can refute this or someone can point to evidence to refute this, idc. It was changed the first time at the start of 2017.. hence why I quit for two months, but it needed to change because markups were plummeting and players like me just stopped dropping.

Either way.. yeah there's a YUUUGGGEEEEE increase in volatility. Most of my runs that don't include 300x multis have been between 58% TT and 67% TT... these are 2k ped runs across 28k cycled in June now.

Granted I'm sure I'm paying back some of the 12k tower at the end of last month. Either way, yeah mining is even more relentless than it was before. I'm okay with it because i can grind through low periods.. but players without a 5-digit pedcard probably cannot.

Haruto Rat said:

Mining on Caly is lately characterized by:

• lower HR
• increased volatility
• and top-heavy multiplier distribution.

In other words, just like Arkadia.

I shouldn't complain, got two unamped XXs this month, but for those who didn't it's of course depressing.

Click to expand...

Fully agree Haruto, even when doing 100 ped runs my return stay's around the same 80+% TT return as usual. Also HR is lower but more multipliers are found.

Cant complain neither

I don't wanna bust any bubble but I know a guy who got 85% return TT in his latest 250k ped cycled.

Hahaha... poor looser.

zeusrocktropian said:

I don't wanna bust any bubble but I know a guy who got 85% return TT in his latest 250k ped cycled.

Hahaha... poor looser.

Click to expand...

I got 82% from February through April of this year.. nearly 400k cycled. Do I win a prize?

So.. from the posts above it looks like I`m not the only one.
Maybe we should keep this thread active so that MA could see the feed-back?
Or if they`re not interested maybe we should let know the new players what they can expect even if they`ll play 10 years this "game"? Even if they`ll cycle hundreds of thousands of peds?

Maybe MA (and all the "learn the game" sayers) should remember where the money are coming / will come from?

For me it`s quite simple:
I didn`t get a tower in 10+ years.
So why on f*ing earth should I accept a 69% tt return?
Only to have MA have their marketing stunts? and a few iconic avatars to pull all the crowd ahead?

Count0 said:

So.. from the posts above it looks like I`m not the only one.
Maybe we should keep this thread active so that MA could see the feed-back?
Or if they`re not interested maybe we should let know the new players what they can expect even if they`ll play 10 years this "game"? Even if they`ll cycle hundreds of thousands of peds?

Maybe MA (and all the "learn the game" sayers) should remember where the money are coming / will come from?

For me it`s quite simple:
I didn`t get a tower in 10+ years.
So why on f*ing earth should I accept a 69% tt return?
Only to have MA have their marketing stunts? and a few iconic avatars to pull all the crowd ahead?

Click to expand...

MindArk doesn´t care much about mining, was clear when Epb was introduced. They changed how mining returns work a couple of times from 2015 if I am not mistaken, without any real player feedback. Way lees multipliers and bigger ones when/if you get them etc.
All written above hurt the newbie players/miners the most while they don't have the bankroll to support it. So they quit before they even start. Knew few new players/miners which they stopped because of bad returns.

We still have a visual bug from 2 years back when finder is keep beeping/searching for ores even if you already found them so it became a finder feature so to speak. . And now with loot 2.0 where is anything written about mining?

So that is how much they care about mining and they care even less what is written here.

I welcome the volatility in mining. Back when it was really low volatility like "claim size V" era in 2014, mining was really easy but you didn't get any bigger hofs unless you went indoors.

Right now we have the 2010-2012 mining system in place. Which is fine. But back in 2010-2012 markups were higher and there were many more miners.

The less competition the better for me

Rocket192 said:

I welcome the volatility in mining. Back when it was really low volatility like "claim size V" era in 2014, mining was really easy but you didn't get any bigger hofs unless you went indoors.

Right now we have the 2010-2012 mining system in place. Which is fine. But back in 2010-2012 markups were higher and there were many more miners.

The less competition the better for me

Click to expand...

I started playing around with mining a little bit again and i haven't done enough to make a judgement on returns, however, I am finding a lot of Lyst in places that didn't have lyst before. Is this the case planetwide?

Karmic said:

I started playing around with mining a little bit again and i haven't done enough to make a judgement on returns, however, I am finding a lot of Lyst in places that didn't have lyst before. Is this the case planetwide?

Click to expand...

Dunno... I haven't mined cyrene ever and I don't mine spots with lyst in them on caly.. but resources could've changed in the update. Ark is still a safe bet... fixed resource % across entire servers. Makes for some pretty damn boring mining but w/e... ark team won't listen to that input.

Caly mining is a clusterfuck of 21 different resources that all sell for 105% or less.. unless you have good maps and can target specific stuff it's all a mess.. RT is safe for now.

It`s weekend, time for another couple of runs:
Run 7:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 93 peds (!)
% return: 47% (!)
Run 8:
TT in: 273.5 peds (1 x lvl 5 amp + probes)
TT out: 194 peds
% return: 71%

Total in: 196+273.5 = 469.5
Total out: 93+194 = 287
Average % return: 61%

Not sure where this is going to, but again, more people, including MA should be advised about how fucked up is the system.

OP updated.

Count0 said:

It`s weekend, time for another couple of runs:
Run 7:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 93 peds (!)
% return: 47% (!)
Run 8:
TT in: 273.5 peds (1 x lvl 5 amp + probes)
TT out: 194 peds
% return: 71%

Total in: 196+273.5 = 469.5
Total out: 93+194 = 287
Average % return: 61%

Not sure where this is going to, but again, more people, including MA should be advised about how fucked up is the system.

OP updated.

Click to expand...

I often get periods of 45-55% returns on 200 drops or less. Just the way it is. Drop 4-5 lvl 5 amps in a run and you'll be over 71%

Rocket192 said:

I often get periods of 45-55% returns on 200 drops or less. Just the way it is. Drop 4-5 lvl 5 amps in a run and you'll be over 71%

Click to expand...

nvm, I got it wrong (edited first part of the post).
but why should I do 4-5 amps in a run?
it should be possible to get decent returns with 1-2 amps in a run
as I said, I always played like this in the last 10 years, be it hunting or mining.
200-300 peds / run, 1-2 runs, if everything goes well I`d continue, if not I`d stop.

I used to be able to get a 90% tt return in max 3-4 runs.
no big hits (never had a tower in 10+ years), but also no shitty 40-70% tt returns

A couple more:

Run 9:
TT in: 196 peds (1 x lvl 3 amp + probes)
TT out: 161 peds
% return: 82%
Run 10:
TT in: 273.5 peds (1 x lvl 5 amp + probes)
TT out: 183 peds
% return: 67%

Total in: 196+273.5 = 469.5
Total out: 161 + 183 = 344
Average % return: 73%

I start having enough of trying to survive this theft, literally.

OP updated.

Count0 said:

nvm, I got it wrong (edited first part of the post).
but why should I do 4-5 amps in a run?
it should be possible to get decent returns with 1-2 amps in a run
as I said, I always played like this in the last 10 years, be it hunting or mining.
200-300 peds / run, 1-2 runs, if everything goes well I`d continue, if not I`d stop.

I used to be able to get a 90% tt return in max 3-4 runs.
no big hits (never had a tower in 10+ years), but also no shitty 40-70% tt returns

Click to expand...

"I always played like this"


adapt to survive

things change in EU, if you don't, you might hit bad returns

just saying, no hard feelings meant...

it could be the wrong area for the finder you use, could be bad loot swings (even though MA claims those should have been addressed I say hell no... i still feel loot waves.. )

in huntng at least:

LangeTobias said:

"I always played like this"


adapt to survive

things change in EU, if you don't, you might hit bad returns


[/TABLE]

Click to expand...

Bullshit. What can you adapt here? Mining = run + drop bombs., that's it. Range or depth of finder did not change. The ore depth or spot might changed, but believe me doing few runs of 200 ped probes per day and I ran out of places on map to drop bombs, I found the most fiting ones, but still loot is getting more shittie and shittie. You might say you need bigger budget and more drops to expect for a return, but that was not the case before!

This is not a real life that you could adapt and expect for better results, this is game play with calculated options, so you cant adapt shit if you tried every option (in this case for mining) and the loot is still horrible.

Kevlie said:

Bullshit. What can you adapt here? Mining = run + drop bombs., that's it. Range or depth of finder did not change. The ore depth or spot might changed, but believe me doing few runs of 200 ped probes per day and I ran out of places on map to drop bombs, I found the most fiting ones, but still loot is getting more shittie and shittie. You might say you need bigger budget and more drops to expect for a return, but that was not the case before!

This is not a real life that you could adapt and expect for better results, this is game play with calculated options, so you cant adapt shit if you tried every option (in this case for mining) and the loot is still horrible.

Click to expand...

My bad then, you seem offended - i even said no hard feeling in the post for a reason. So take a chill pill, I've got a few IRL if you want some.


By adapting I mean change the finder (depth) and location to find the right resources...

Any way, if you have tried every possible depth of finder on all locations and it is still shit as you say, I believe you, loot returns are shit and that completely sucks...
I replied to the post above me, who said "I've always done it like this" and thats why I said adapt, as the game changes and he said he had not.

What I was saying were I still think MA are using waves, and currently there seems to be a down spiral in loot as I am also having huge losses and many of the people I know. Loot system just changed, maybe mining was affected?

Maybe loot sucks right now because of the upcoming migration?

I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to do that.

And you are saying you can't adapt in mining....

LangeTobias said:

My bad then, you seem offended - i even said no hard feeling in the post for a reason. So take a chill pill, I've got a few IRL if you want some.


By adapting I mean change the finder (depth) and location to find the right resources...

Any way, if you have tried every possible depth of finder on all locations and it is still shit as you say, I believe you, loot returns are shit and that completely sucks...
I replied to the post above me, who said "I've always done it like this" and thats why I said adapt, as the game changes and he said he had not.

What I was saying were I still think MA are using waves, and currently there seems to be a down spiral in loot as I am also having huge losses and many of the people I know. Loot system just changed, maybe mining was affected?

Maybe loot sucks right now because of the upcoming migration?

I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to do that.

And you are saying you can't adapt in mining....

Click to expand...

You did not offend me - all good mate Just saying, something has changed in mining loot and I can't still figure out the new system and the pedcard is getting emptier and emptier, makes you say word bullshit more often

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sRZT7Fsc1WBSSAXryy-7X3Y6Kv1ypWWayEYI9l87KDY/edit?usp=sharing

Nothing much to see here.. Granted I'm paying back a 14k TT profit from May. But nevertheless.. you can see where my runs of 300-500 drops outdoors produce sub-70% runs.. This has always been the case in mining. 1-2 amps is nowhere near enough to get decent returns.


If i up run size to 7-10 amps returns are closer to 81% when you remove 300x and bigger multipliers.


had photo to upload.. but PCF is gay so you just get the link.

LangeTobias said:

My bad then, you seem offended - i even said no hard feeling in the post for a reason. So take a chill pill, I've got a few IRL if you want some.


By adapting I mean change the finder (depth) and location to find the right resources...

Any way, if you have tried every possible depth of finder on all locations and it is still shit as you say, I believe you, loot returns are shit and that completely sucks...
I replied to the post above me, who said "I've always done it like this" and thats why I said adapt, as the game changes and he said he had not.

What I was saying were I still think MA are using waves, and currently there seems to be a down spiral in loot as I am also having huge losses and many of the people I know. Loot system just changed, maybe mining was affected?

Maybe loot sucks right now because of the upcoming migration?

I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to do that.

And you are saying you can't adapt in mining....

Click to expand...

By "I`ve always done it like this" I meant 20-50$ USD input (200-500 peds runs).
I`m not confortable going to the next level.
These low returns mean that 20-50$ players are not wellcome anymore??
And even players which have been here for 10+ years are basically told to get the fuck out of here??
I did NOT mean only 1 finder / one amp / one depth / one location.
I`ve tried many combination, from tt finder + level 5 amps (even level 8 amps in the past) to (L) finders + enhancers + amps.
I`m mining both continents, also both taxed and un-taxed land.
(and lastly, I suppose I wouldn`t be here after 10 years, if I wasn`t able to adapt...)

I had some down-swings every couple of years, but what I get now is far from anything I had for a long time (if ever), at least for the level I`m playing at.

Changes associated with Loot 2.0 or close enough

As others have mentioned I have noticed a significant change in the variability of returns (mostly to the downside as many have mentioned). I have also noticed pretty big changes in the %mix of ores / enmatter found including ores and enmatter not previously found in certain areas (cyrene).

What bothers me the most and this is pre-loot 2.0 is the way MA keeps changing certain ore/enmatter drop rates and possibly locations. The most blatant example of this is pyrite, first dropping hit rate and all but eliminating globals, then turning them way up earlier this year, then turning them back down and introducing new areas outside of lpvp where it can be found. If MA is going to be consistent (e.g. rewarding players with learned game skills, this kind of manipulation defeats that purpose all together).

DaJuggernaut said:

As others have mentioned I have noticed a significant change in the variability of returns (mostly to the downside as many have mentioned). I have also noticed pretty big changes in the %mix of ores / enmatter found including ores and enmatter not previously found in certain areas (cyrene).

What bothers me the most and this is pre-loot 2.0 is the way MA keeps changing certain ore/enmatter drop rates and possibly locations. The most blatant example of this is pyrite, first dropping hit rate and all but eliminating globals, then turning them way up earlier this year, then turning them back down and introducing new areas outside of lpvp where it can be found. If MA is going to be consistent (e.g. rewarding players with learned game skills, this kind of manipulation defeats that purpose all together).

Click to expand...

MA does this to mitigate big "profit zones."

think shinook 2012-2014.... 135% gazz 60% of the time? please and thank you. I averaged 127% average markup during that period.. even with amps at 108.5% markup I made an obscene amount of ped, as others did too.

Not like it hurts MA much, since they make money from decay, but it does discourage depositing.

but I have also noticed a change in resource % across caly, RT, and ark... haven't been to cyrene but i hear it's a lyst fest.

and yeah.. returns are much much more volatile. which is good imo.

I don't want to sound patronizing, but since is this new loot announced, maybe use whatever setup is comfortable (as in whatever you can do alot of times) and start from there to see what works. It doesn't really matter if is hunting, mining or crafting, new or old loot, you need to have always a "control matrix" in place. That is, a cheap (relative to your means) operation which you can repeat & tweak until you feel it works and then see if scaling works (it never does in a direct proportional scale).

On topic, average without multipliers between 70 and 80 sounds correct.

Well i took a break with the game. I used to drop bombs casual since 2004 till 2011. All i see they reduced the numbers of globals and small hofs like 200-300 and now all u do is getting those 300 or 1000 multipliers to get u close to 90-91%. I started to keep my tt for a while i'm at 182425 cost with tt return 162941 (89,32%).