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Scopes/Sights poll

Scopes/sight poll

  • 1. I do not use neither scopes nor sights

    Votes: 36 31.6%

  • 2. I use scope only for zooming and don't care about skill mods.

    Votes: 25 21.9%

  • 3. I believe that scopes and sights affects

    Votes: 45 39.5%

  • -- 3.1 Hit Ability

    Votes: 33 28.9%

  • ---- 3.1.1 and doesn't work on maxed out weapon.

    Votes: 21 18.4%

  • -- 3.2 involved skill, like Rifle or Aim

    Votes: 24 21.1%

  • -- 3.3 Miss rate and/or ammount of damage

    Votes: 28 24.6%

  • -- 3.4 Skill gain rate

    Votes: 25 21.9%

  • -- 3.5 nothing and are for decoration only.

    Votes: 13 11.4%

  • 4. I believe that broken sights and scopes will decrease hitrare and/or increase missrate

    Votes: 45 39.5%
  • Total voters
    114
Svarog

Svarog

Slayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
9,519
There are lots of theories, speculations and tests (1 2 3 4) about using scopes/sights, so I decided to ask you to summarize your believes on this matter :).

So the poll options are:

1. I do not use neither scopes nor sights
2. I use scope only for zooming and don't care about skill mods.
3. I believe that scopes and sights affects
3.1 Hit Ability (e.g. with HA=5 and skillmod=50% you get HA=7.5)​
3.1.1 and doesn't work on maxed out weapon.​
3.2 involved skill, like Rifle or Aim (e.g with skillmod=50% and Rifle=4k it feels like Rifle=6k)​
3.3 miss rate and/or ammount of damage (you miss 50% less and/or your damage interval of, say, 20-50/40-50 for this unmaxed gun become 30-40 (but no more than max interval for this gun or else everybody would already noticed that).​
3.4 skill gain rate (so with skillmod=50% you'll gain, say, Rifle skill 15 times instead of 10 in the same period of time)​
3.5 nothing and are for decoration only.​
4. I believe that broken sights and scopes will decrease hitrare, increase missrate or will do something else nasty.
 
Last edited:
The skill %'s offered by scopes and lasers have no bearing on HA
 
TSCRYPTO said:
The skill %'s offered by scopes and lasers have no bearing on HA
Click to expand...

It is so easy to test, yet so many believes that these attachments are worthless without even doing a half-good research about them.

They do not increase the minimum damage, but it's a fact that they increase the hit ability, which in turn increases the critical hit ability. Head out there and see for yourself.
 
I will. But I can say from my odd occasions looking closely at what these things do, that I believe that they do what MA tells us. That they offer a slight overall tweak to the way certain skills advance.

They increase HA? I cant say that I have ever noticed this. If they do, then the increase is miniscule.

But still, any further testing, info or proof etc regarding how these things work can only be good.
 
What is the point of this poll? Science isnt democratic. A theory doesnt become true when the majority believes its true.
 
TSCRYPTO said:
I will. But I can say from my odd occasions looking closely at what these things do, that I believe that they do what MA tells us. That they offer a slight overall tweak to the way certain skills advance.

They increase HA? I cant say that I have ever noticed this. If they do, then the increase is miniscule.

Bur still, any further testing, info or proof etc regarding how these things work can only be good.
Click to expand...

You won't exactly notice any difference simply by hunting with them, but if you do some calculations and see how many misses you have after 10,000 shoots, then you will see that they do make a difference.

The lowest hit rate is 80%, which is at H/A 0.0. The highest hit rate is either at 90% or 91%, at H/A 10.0/10.0.

A setup with a skill modification of 30% will only increase your Hit Ability with that amount, this means that a hit ability of 3 will be increased to 3.9. So, this increase from 3.0 to 3.9 will only increase your hit rate from 83.3% to 84.29%. This isn't exactly a huge difference, but it will be greater at higher levels and it will for sure make a difference. This doesn't mean that you should use attachments no matter what level you are on though, as they may decrease your economy if your hit ability is to low.
 
Witte said:
What is the point of this poll? Science isnt democratic. A theory doesnt become true when the majority believes its true.
Click to expand...
Thats a very valid point and hopefully no-one here will be spouting off that an option with the most votes is the truest option. Rather, what we will hopefully see is a few different viewpoints being discussed and thats that.
 
Recoda said:
You won't exactly notice any difference simply by hunting with them, but if you do some calculations and see how many misses you have after 10,000 shoots, then you will see that they do make a difference.

The lowest hit rate is 80%, which is at H/A 0.0. The highest hit rate is either at 90% or 91%, at H/A 10.0/10.0.

A setup with a skill modification of 30% will only increase your Hit Ability with that amount, this means that a hit ability of 3 will be increased to 3.9. So, this increase from 3.0 to 3.9 will only increase your hit rate from 83.3% to 84.29%. This isn't exactly a huge difference, but it will be greater at higher levels and it will for sure make a difference. This doesn't mean that you should use attachments no matter what level you are on though, as they may decrease your economy if your hit ability is to low.
Click to expand...

This is basicly how I implemented the attachments to Entropedia (Check "Skill based" ("Custom values" if you havnt uploaded your skills) and then "Attachments"). You can directly see that in many situations it is better to not use attachments, especially with low damage guns.
 
Witte said:
What is the point of this poll? Science isnt democratic. A theory doesnt become true when the majority believes its true.
Click to expand...

A million lemmings can't be wrong :laugh:

Believes are based on experience, even if it often is subconscious. Science is the systematic classification of experience.
 
Recoda said:
You won't exactly notice any difference simply by hunting with them, but if you do some calculations and see how many misses you have after 10,000 shoots, then you will see that they do make a difference.

The lowest hit rate is 80%, which is at H/A 0.0. The highest hit rate is either at 90% or 91%, at H/A 10.0/10.0.

A setup with a skill modification of 30% will only increase your Hit Ability with that amount, this means that a hit ability of 3 will be increased to 3.9. So, this increase from 3.0 to 3.9 will only increase your hit rate from 83.3% to 84.29%. This isn't exactly a huge difference, but it will be greater at higher levels and it will for sure make a difference. This doesn't mean that you should use attachments no matter what level you are on though, as they may decrease your economy if your hit ability is to low.
Click to expand...

All noted and thank you :) TBH, its been a while since I have paid any attention to any statistical information generated by hunting. And indeed, when I last would have attempted this I would have had far less in the way of skills and thus, results and observations that may have been gathered may have been skewed. But like I said, with regards to scopes and lasers, its been for a long time now that the only thing I have believed is what MA has told us.

But you have been around a lot longer than myself, and by default I trust your judgement and respect it. This would be the first way I have not seen the full picture here in EU :)
 
I can feel a Kuhnian coming on...

:)
 
Witte said:
What is the point of this poll? Science isnt democratic. A theory doesnt become true when the majority believes its true.
Click to expand...

I second that... +rep
 
Recoda said:
You won't exactly notice any difference simply by hunting with them, but if you do some calculations and see how many misses you have after 10,000 shoots, then you will see that they do make a difference.

The lowest hit rate is 80%, which is at H/A 0.0. The highest hit rate is either at 90% or 91%, at H/A 10.0/10.0.

A setup with a skill modification of 30% will only increase your Hit Ability with that amount, this means that a hit ability of 3 will be increased to 3.9. So, this increase from 3.0 to 3.9 will only increase your hit rate from 83.3% to 84.29%. This isn't exactly a huge difference, but it will be greater at higher levels and it will for sure make a difference. This doesn't mean that you should use attachments no matter what level you are on though, as they may decrease your economy if your hit ability is to low.
Click to expand...
Hey Recoda :)
thx for nice post, and what do you mean about HA increasing when you shoot with maxed gun then?
 
Wixe said:
Hey Recoda :)
thx for nice post, and what do you mean about HA increasing when you shoot with maxed gun then?
Click to expand...

It'd be the same as being on level 140 instead of level 100, it doesn't make any difference at all. :)
 
Recoda said:
It is so easy to test, yet so many believes that these attachments are worthless without even doing a half-good research about them.

They do not increase the minimum damage, but it's a fact that they increase the hit ability, which in turn increases the critical hit ability. Head out there and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

I make a lot of tests last year and except decay i not see any significant difference. Except if MA change something laser are unless for me (scope are only a zoom tool).

Now i don't know if something have change and hard for me to test with 10/10 on hit and critical ability with all range weapon ...
 
Hmm, like Witte says, a poll isn't going to resolve this one. Recoda has done the most testing on this matter, at least as far as I know. One well tested opinion is worth more than 100 random guesses imo...

Anyway, the poll seems to be missing the "I haven't got a clue what they do" option so I didn't vote.

Hopefully MA will add a bit more detail to their stats on the description page at some point. This isn't an easy thing to test, due to other factors that can cause you to miss, and to the relatively small effect they have. Some sort of clarity as to whether you gain anything from sticking them on an L weapon or not, and what exactly they affect (ie. if its acts to effectively make one or more of your skills higher, which skills, and does that affect the rate at which you gain skills).

I've got nothing against some things being left for people to figure out. But having widely available items, commonly used items, that the majority of the population have no real idea how they work (and no reasonable way to find out) seems to be taking it a bit far imo.
 
Recoda said:
It'd be the same as being on level 140 instead of level 100, it doesn't make any difference at all. :)
Click to expand...

Well you wrote HA 10/10 (lvl 100) is ~ 90% (91%) successful hits. So when you got modded lvl 130 with HA 10/10 you should got "hidden hit success" a bit more than the 90%. Thats what i am asking for.
 
i'm rather surpised nobody has unpacked the game engine to figure these things out. does it not come with the download?
 
Superhal said:
i'm rather surpised nobody has unpacked the game engine to figure these things out. does it not come with the download?
Click to expand...

Those things are certainly server side.
 
from what i've seen, loots are certainly server side, and there's no way to figure out how that works. but i'm sure certain things are computer side. someone should at least know which side hit rates are.
 
I have no proof for the following beliefs, and as such I accept that I can be as wrong as wrong can be. :eek:

I am guessing that:

The skill mod alters your ability to use the weapon "as if" you had the "skill modifier"% more skill in one or more skills.
So some of the skills you have that go into your pro standing when using a weapon with a sight/scope are inflated by the skill mod% whne calculating your HA.

Now think what a scope or sight is designed to do in RL. Neither is designed to (or actually does) increase the damage a weapon does. They are designed to increase your ability to hit what you are shooting at accurately.

You can add a laser-sight and/or scope to 0.177 air pistol if you wish, and it won't start doing the damage of a 0.22 rim-fire rifle as a result.
You will see that you have improved your ability to aim accurately by a "small amount".
The "small amount" will depend on how good you are to start with. (IE it's a skill modifier based on how skilled you are to start with, and if you could not hit a barn door from 10 paces to start with, you probably will still miss it!)

Unlike amps, the improvement in your chance of hitting your target is not shown, as it's probably so small an increase as you would not bother if you knew how small it was.
For example a 10% increase in my aim skill will get me an improvement of 0.07 of a level in my pro standing. What's the point in that?
 
Dorsai said:
The skill mod alters your ability to use the weapon "as if" you had the "skill modifier"% more skill in one or more skills.
So some of the skills you have that go into your pro standing when using a weapon with a sight/scope are inflated by the skill mod% whne calculating your HA.
Click to expand...

This seems the most likely effect based on the descriptions and tests people have reported. If so, it'd be nice if the weapon stats show the adjusted HA, like it does for damage if you put an amp on.
 
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