Breer M2a(L) Vs Opalo -= Skilling Test Results=-

OK .. this is gonna be interesting .... I bought a Full TT Breer M2a(L) and i've been hunting some Cornis and Fefoids Near Zychion ...

The skillgains seemed to be in the same level with opalo ... but again i wasn't sure about it because the maturity of the mobs there varies from Fefoids Outcast -Warrior and Corni Mature-Guardian...

So yesterday i thought i could do a nice Test and after that , see what is better for my cost to kill and my skill gain.. .And Inform ou Comunity about the results!

This Test kept me busy 5+ hours and i hope ppl would appreciate my effort

Here are the results ... Both Opalo and Breer M2a have MAXED stats

MOB : Exarosaurs OA - Stalker
10k Ammo Opalo +103 amp / 10k Ammo Breer +103 amp


10k Ammo Opalo +55 ped amp = 155 peds
10k Ammo Breer +33 amp +14.6 peds (11.7 decay+125% )= 148 peds




And the Winner IS.................... OPALO!

Yeap .... Opalo Cost 7 peds more if you want to burn 100 ped ammo... BUT:

• It's faster - the mobs hit you less
• If you miss you lose only 3 ammo+Amp decay when with Breer you pay 5 ammo +Amp + Weapon decay
• You skill better in Combat skills

After this test i know that Breer was a bad deal for me and my Skills.. maybe for someone with higher skills is different ...

PS - Plz feel free to Post and +Rep me I lost 5+ hours of my life and 60 peds!

Nice testing

levithanikos said:

It's faster - the mobs hit you less

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Where exacly did you got this from? As far as I know its never proven, but more of a feeling people have. And I dont even remotely trust those feelings . Aside from that, doest the breer do more damage, and kill the mob faster, and so it hits you less in the end?

You skill better in Combat skills

Click to expand...

My experience is that skillgains is abit like loot. Sometimes its good and somtimes its not so good. So a 10k ammo run isnt nearly enough to say somthing conclusive IMO.


For the rest, realy nice initiative

nice job but ...

Both Opalo and Breer M2a have MAXED stats

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... for someone who just maxed opalo breer M2a can be very handy with its skill bonus untill it is maxed and i guess that is the only purpose of that gun.

Good job indeed,

maybe Breer does more dmg per shot, but higher attack rates causes more misses by the mob. IMO same mechanism like with players hit rate. Just see the difference in missed shots between 10 trox biting in your arms and a single one u you shoot at. Same goes for mobs HA if he gots hit.

But please, skills are harder to gain as higher u get. And 7PED sounds like less than the random factor. Please try this the other way round, start with the Breer and then the Opalo. I really dont fancy any of them but for statistical puproses u should run another test the other way round.

Great effort though! Keep up the good work

Nice to see some pplare pleased with the results and others have questions ...

Someone asked about Anatomy skill gains, and i could add Agility gains too ...

Anatomy isn't counted in skillgains becasue you have skillgains even when you use your FAP.

Agility on the other hand is gained when you get hitted by the mob , so another skill you can't count.

@Witte

About hits ,i just noticed the number of hits on my armor from stalkers using opalo and breer. While using opalo i had 5-6 hits average when with breer 6-7 average hits beore the MOB was dead.

Sorry i couldn't do it with more than 200 peds ,but i was loosing peds and i just didn't move from there, i had to finish this Test. It wouldn't be enough a 30-50 ped ammo hunt so i managed to use 200 ped ammo to be sure about what and why should i use one of em. So i f someone can actually pay my lost peds i could try with 400 peds..

@ Bosko

Like i said before the purpose of this test was for me and my skills. You couldn't compare a maxed weapon with a not-yet-maxed cause the number of misses and damage dealt would be less accurate.

I just tried to figure what is better for me to use, more economical and with more skillgains.

@baconburgare



Random factor? Try to burn 100 peds of ammo with opalo.. everytime you'll have XXXX hits before the amp is dead and that's because in every hit you use 3 ammo (2 opalo+1 for amp). So i don't get your point here? How can this be random ... does your amped opalo sometimes uses 3 ammo and sometimes 4 ammo?

@ Bannockburn

This happens when you have lag ... and it's a not a madox IV you know, it's only 44 shot /minute...


Any comment is welcome

levithanikos said:

And the Winner IS.................... OPALO!

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not at all surprised that the Breer lost

thanks for your work/time and verification.

I dont realy doubt that the opalo is better, but I dont realy agree to the reasons you give. Saying you notice that you got hit more with the breer isnt realy a fact. We all know that getting hit is a very random thing. If you want to come with some real evidence it will require some VERY long tests. And you will need to write down all the results. Same goes for skillgains.

I would say opalo is the winner because:

1) Better economy
2) No hassle to obtain one
3) Lower damage, means less damage overhead on the killshot
4) Lower reload means faster heal capability

The reasons you give from this test, are by no means facts, but impressions. And missing is somting that is mainly in your own hands . So not realy a big reason to say breer is bad. Anyway, I do agree with your conclusion.

I pretty much agree with your conclusion.

One thing I don't agree on is the part about missing.
The cost for 1 miss maybe a bit higher for the breer, but with an opalo you need more shots to kill a mob, so more chance to miss too. I doubt there will be much, if any, difference in total costs relating to missing shots.

Now what we need is the rest of the breer series to come out. Where are the breer M3a, M4a, etc.

levithanikos said:

[*]It's faster - the mobs hit you less

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is this an objective, proven factor? The actual damage/sec of the breer is better despite the longer reload so it should be quicker to kill a mob even if it seems slower. Ive hunted corn with the breer and liked it once id got past the long reload, and when counting the time to drop one it was quicker. however, if it can be shown that mobs hit you more in the intervening reload, that does make the breer less efective.

as an aside, id also note that at 125% the economy gets screwed up. why does noone sell them for 120%, they dont require expensive materials? have the bps been cornered by a few?

Good work,

Gotta add that the interrupt factor with a faster gun is probably the reason he got hit less overall.
Faster shots = more chance to interrupt...seems on par to me.

Im an opalo fan...and like alot of people had the impression that it is better than most other weapons. However, the recent change actually lowers its economy. ......One thing too, I havnt checked to see if breers got a change in rounds per minute as well.

Still, with out a field test...opalo isnt as good in economy (time or ped) as a breer.....since you have proven skill gains arent much different, I am actually now tempted to get one after doin this math.
*note...I am aware your test was more aimed at skills, so not condradicting your study here *

......One thing too, I havnt checked to see if breers got a change in rounds per minute as well. Bad me...but in anycase here it is with breers seeing no change.

Edit-changed error pointed out by witte, and redid opalo ave from 7 per shot to 6 to equal the ratio I had for breer. I was tired Not much difference, main point still stands.
Opalo costs 2 pec per shot.
Say 6 dmg ave. x1000 shots = 6000 damage in 23.81 mins (42rpm)
PLUS only 20 pec in actual gun decay over 1000 shots, no markup (20pec) for a total cost of 2.2 ped.
thats 20 Drone gen 1's without missing (300hps-simpler)...
= 9.09 drones per ped spent over 10.82 mins. .84 drones/min. (was .80prepatch)
drone 1 economy 2.62 (cost/drones per minute) economy was 2.75 at 40rpm

Opalo w/104 costs 5 pec per shot amp decay and ammo.
Say 17 dmg ave. x1000 shots = 17000 damage in 23.81 mins (42rpm)
PLUS only 20 pec in actual gun decay over 1000 shots, no markup (20pec) for a total cost of 5.2 ped.
thats 56 Drone gen 1's without missing (300hps-simpler)...
= 10.77 drones per ped spent over 4.58 mins. 2.35 drones/min (was 2.24)
drone 1 economy 2.21 (cost/drones per minute) economy was 2.32 at 40rpm

Breer2 costs 5.0 pec per shot.
Say 16 damage ave. x1000 shots = 16000 damage in 29.41 mins (34pm)
PLUS...60 pec in gun decay over 1000 shots and markup (76pec) for a total cost of 5.76 ped.
thats 53 Drone gen 1's without missing (300hps-simpler)
= 9.2 drones per ped spent over 5.11 mins. 1.8 drones/min
drone 1 economy 3.2 (cost/drones per minute)

Or w/104, 7pec per shot amp decay and ammo.
Say 25 damage ave x1000 shots = 25000 damage in 29.41 mins (34pm)....
PLUS...60 pec in gun decay over 1000 shots and markup (76pec) for a total cost of 7.76 ped.
thats 83 Drone gen 1's without missing (300hps-simpler)
= 10.7 drones per ped spent over 3.79 mins. 2.82 drones/min
drone 1 economy 2.75 (cost/drones per minute)

As you can see, the numbers are a little suprising to say the least....
amp decay (104) makes the economies worse in an odd way if the numbers are right on wiki...
4 percent difference on opalo
16 percent difference on Breer



But a big nagging question I have is....did you notice loots change any?

Been alot of theories lately that the gear somehow is a factor in loot. Been curious if the (L) weapons have any hidden bonuses for looting somehow. Only reason besides the limited time frame for skill gains I could think of, to want or need to use that gun.

And I gotta say, most the major uberloots/multiple daily globals I see posted, show a adj/mod weapon, so I cant exactly dismiss those theories. Granted most people who use those generally have skills to back em up too. But it is an intriguing question.

Especially since I hunt a ton and never get those results no matter how hard I try. (something must be broken, im not getting those. )

@ forgo: If your gonna make up values like that, you can make any gun look better then any gun. I suggest you just stick to the facts, or backup your claims with test results.

avarage damage opalo+a104 = (11+22)/2 = 16.5
avarage damage breer+a104 = (16.5+33)/2 = 24.75

Nice test. I'd have guessed that outcome, opalo seems to skill well, although I guess the difference isn't that huge and skill gains are a bit erratic so you could have been luckier with the skills on the opalo run.

I guess the total number of mobs killed and the total loot would have been interesting to add too.

But yes, judging from the stats and my experiences, without having tested it fully I felt that for opalo+105 and breer+105, opalo would win in skills, be about the same in dmg/sec, but be slightly more efficient. With the additional fact that you pay markup on the breer, I never really considered it as an option. But I haven't looked at the breer since the VU so don't know if its refire rate has changed like the opalo which could affect things a bit.

This smile goes to all of you here posting and sharing ideas and experience.

I think there is nothing more to say about it. I just wanted to test my skillgains for the ammount of peds i can spend ... The most important in the test are the skill gains . Rifle and RDA seem to go up faster and that's why i'll keep hunting with my opalo.

PS-Ty all for the +rep, made this test worth more for me.

Good point it was late and I figured 28 out of 33 by error. So made the edit, my point still stands, wasnt much of a difference. Also double checked breer2 fire rate and its the same....34rpm.

For every calculation I've posted based on the facts, you (witte) need evidence, I dont, because facts hold the answer we seek before even tesing it, everytime.

Like I said, its another way of looking at it without a field test, but im sure it would be accurate given a test. All the numbers are fact, cept the ave per shot which is stabalized buy using a static ave per shot. So take it or leave it, running field tests will always show a variance per player which should average to what I posted, that is the factual data based on the stats we know to be true.

If you know how fast a train is travelling and the distance for example you can figure the time it will take, same exact thing. Even still, the train may have had to slow down some for some reason on occation, but overall, the time would be the averaged fact. Now instead of running a hunting test over several hours would you ask that we need 50 trains and clock em all to get the result that is commonly known to be true?

This is how scientists overcome the issues for example, in spaceflights done for the 1st time, take known values and calculate. While some errors can and will be made, the known parameters will tell you how to accomplish it, without ever actually have done it, and very often succeeds.

Not meaning to flame any here just stating why I posted that in the 1st place. Its much quicker, and the result we would very likely see if everyone did a test.

Of course some would be different, we are all subject to probablility in EU, but the probabilities are equal using a static number on the probability...ave per shot.

So from that we see the answer, without testing.

Doesnt change the original skills comparison of course, thats a probability factor skillswise, and Lev's test does show no difference in favor of the breer2.
When it comes to skills we have no factual numbers or rates to do an accurate calculation. which is why the test posted by lev is good to know.
Good work, and thanks. +rep

Good point here forgo . ty for sharing

forgo said:

And I gotta say, most the major uberloots/multiple daily globals I see posted, show a adj/mod weapon, so I cant exactly dismiss those theories. Granted most people who use those generally have skills to back em up too. But it is an intriguing question.

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use to be an intruiging question for me also....my theory is/was that MA rewards you with other peoples $ (loots) when you give them more income (decay)...but then I got a 2.9k loot with me amped apollo.

One of the main reason, in my opinion, that you see people with higher weapons getting more globals/etc. is because of the "banking/funding" theory. Look at it this way....you miss 200times with an apollo, thats 4ped into your global fund, you miss 200 times with a 25ammo burn gun, and thats 50ped into your global fund.

Morg said:

use to be an intruiging question for me also....my theory is/was that MA rewards you with other peoples $ (loots) when you give them more income (decay)...but then I got a 2.9k loot with me amped apollo.

One of the main reason, in my opinion, that you see people with higher weapons getting more globals/etc. is because of the "banking/funding" theory. Look at it this way....you miss 200times with an apollo, thats 4ped into your global fund, you miss 200 times with a 25ammo burn gun, and thats 50ped into your global fund.

Click to expand...

My theory is that with those uber guns you just kill allot more mobs, and so have bigger chance on great loots. Sounds way more logical to me

Witte said:

My theory is that with those uber guns you just kill allot more mobs, and so have bigger chance on great loots. Sounds way more logical to me

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I can kill a lot of snables or argo's with an amped opallo in an hour...snables drop Shopkeeper terminals and argos drop Shadow (or is it Angel, I forgot) Helms, sorry, I cant confirm your theory from my experiences. I can confirm, however, that killing a lot more mobs will sooner get youto a mob that posesses a large loot, but first it has to exist in your particular area at the particular time you are there.

but overriding all that, and even skills, is the good/bad "luck" factors/cycle that are in effect for you, the mob, the area, and the game at that particular moment.

amped opalo does about 15-20 damage/sec. imk2 or MM does 100-120 dmg/sec.

Add to that the fact that people with those weapons are often very fanatic hunters, and you will come the the conclustion that when you kill 1 mob, they kill at least 20.

I also hunt with noob weapons often, and my loots are fine. I even looted an uber item using an a2100. So experiences are way too subjective to base a theory on.

I agree witte that is more logical, and generally what I think too, those people that have em in thier ss's also tend to have a ton of ammo/hunting larger mobs enmasse ect.

I do know people like buzz and auktuma probably spend alot more than most think to get crafting multiples like they do, and assume the hunters w/ubers do the same, spend a ton to get an uber that probably is just repaying the higher losses.

Still wonder though if there are modifiers using diff weapons, mainly cause I cant test those weapons to know. That and there are some people with those weapons who have never needed to deposit, and have accumulated very impressive amounts in thier time. Guess ill never know doe sure unless they tell us.

forgo said:

I agree witte that is more logical, and generally what I think too, those people that have em in thier ss's also tend to have a ton of ammo/hunting larger mobs enmasse ect.

I do know people like buzz and auktuma probably spend alot more than most think to get crafting multiples like they do, and assume the hunters w/ubers do the same, spend a ton to get an uber that probably is just repaying the higher losses.

Still wonder though if there are modifiers using diff weapons, mainly cause I cant test those weapons to know. That and there are some people with those weapons who have never needed to deposit, and have accumulated very impressive amounts in thier time. Guess ill never know doe sure unless they tell us.

Click to expand...

I dont realy see the point for MA to make it like that. It is harder to program, and the only group that benefits are some ubers that dont deposit anyway?

Why would MA make it like that? I am not saying that its not possible, but it just doesnt make sense to me.

I think another factor that is very imporant is knowledge and experience. Knowledge: Know what item drops from what mob, and where and when.
Experience: Know if an area is about to pay or not.

I think these two things are allot more important then luck, skill, and gear, and make the difference between profits and losses.

ps its getting abit offtopic, sorry

Even a bit off topic it's ok.

Witte said:

amped opalo does about 15-20 damage/sec. imk2 or MM does 100-120 dmg/sec.

Add to that the fact that people with those weapons are often very fanatic hunters, and you will come the the conclustion that when you kill 1 mob, they kill at least 20.

Click to expand...

sorry, I cant come to that conclusion either, I can kill a snable male young in 1 shot with an amped opalo...in instances like that dam/sec has no relevance.

Morg said:

sorry, I cant come to that conclusion either, I can kill a snable male young in 1 shot with an amped opalo...in instances like that dam/sec has no relevance.

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I never seen someone with imk2 or mm hunt snables either. Nor have I seen that kinda hofs. So what exactly are you trying to say then? And maybe you should try bigger maturities. The chance of getting items then is bigger

I think witte mainly meant that the more damage per second against high maturity and high end mobs, with an opalo 1 kill takes forever, where someone with a mod. weapon can kill 4+ in that same time = more chance for loot/globals/hofs.

As far as high maturity having more chance, would seem logical, but anytime I go hunting for targetted loot, can spend days not getting it on higher maturities, where, so far for me at least, I break down and go with youngs, and end up with it much quicker. Seems to balance, kill a ton more for more chances on youngs, vs killing less for probably the same chances on higher.


Oh and there was a thread a bit back about stamina of the mob times x amount being the ped value cap, was pretty interesting, and seemed to make sense to me. Snables for example with that calc would cap out at a semi normal hof from an ambu or armax.

damn...time to make a u-turn I guess headed down the wrong road from the original post.

So, um....yeah breer 3 needs testing too

Witte said:

So what exactly are you trying to say then?

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pretty much exactly what I said is exactly what I was trying to say...nothing more, nothing less. I even gave precise examples to avoid confusions.

Morg said:

pretty much exactly what I said is exactly what I was trying to say...nothing more, nothing less. I even gave precise examples to avoid confusions.

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Yeh I got confused with the "I can't confirm that" part. I read it as "I dont think its correct".

But nm I think we are on the same line

I have noob skills, only 2k Rifle and I recently started using Breer and I find it to be more effective in both skill gains and economy. 1st off Breer AMP decay is much lower and it does 2 times the regular damage amped compared to oplao amped (A103). Yes it is slower, but it kills stuff faster nonetheless, and what I like about it the most is that when I'm broke, whch is 80% of the time, I can hunt with it unamped and it does the same dmg as an opalo amped with A103. It's a bitch that it's limited, but then again, it lasts quite a long time.

Tor you might be right m8. But if you still have SIB ( Skill Increase Bonus) then you offcourse can't compare opalo with it.

Ty for sharing your experiences