Trapping Issue Workaround

For all that experiencing issue in hunting mobs that show as trapped often, the problem is that clearly the AI code has totally forgotten about ranged mobs.

So how do you remedy the "The creature is in a condition where it can be damaged"?

It's simple, the AI code is expecting the mob to get toe-to-toe with you, so when a ranged mob stops, run to it and stand right in front of it quickly.

This will prevent the trapping situation in most cases.

Unfortunately if other mobs jump on you then its a 50/50 chance of them not trapping, but simple run away from them for about 30 metres or so, then attack, if still trapped keep going and repeat. When not trapped charge in like a mad person

Hope this helps

{aB;}

omg, your new title is so rofl

+rep for that info

lol thx man It took a while of umms and aaaah's!

best solution is not hunt featured mobs ...
MA will see fast they are not hunted and will fix them.
If you hunt them , MA wont fix since the amo spend is good...

That's true, but sometimes you might end up in a place where you don't have a choice in the matter

How you do it m8 ?

I've been scurrying around avatar details etc to no avail

I weant a new description - like tool or clown or something lol

PS Cheers for the workaround with the mobs

For that privilege you have to pay, pay with efd

Look for Store | Change Custome Title on the menu links.

Etopia said:

best solution is not hunt featured mobs ...
MA will see fast they are not hunted and will fix them.
If you hunt them , MA wont fix since the amo spend is good...

Click to expand...

ok than stopp hunting at all. Had this behavior by exos, amaxe, combibos, Atrox ... on different places and flat ground.

I think MA should fix it, it can't be that difficult to look at the position of mob and than check the condition ifTrapped and set it to False.

Yes it seams that even a one line change is too much asked from MA so there is really only the solutin of Etopia to not hunt any ranged Bots/Mobs for the time beeing and do other things.


If the Bots would stop and not shoot anymore instead of stop and not beeing hitable I bet the Bug would have been corrected already I think MA would have shut down the server to prevent us from using this exploit but as they profit they wont change it as they have the best excuse already -

Quote frome the eventual answer from MA

Programmer was in summer vacation so we could not correct this earlyer. We would have as we do not like exploits but it was very hard to spot this tiny little bug that it slipped trough the testing. We are sorry but as you know MA does a lot of testing but it is impossible to test everything.

End of quote

So my suggestion:

When you change something in the code of a Module, like the trapping part of mobs, then test this after, not test opening of Storage or buy ammo from TT but test Trapping of ranged and close range attacking mobs of different kind and in different conditions.

This are my two pecs.


PS:

Including a line of code that checks if the mob can delver damage and then clear the trapping flag is nothing you need several hours but will please a lot of your customers

nice title Akiran, and so true

and ty for the tip.

Nea said:

nice title Akiran, and so true

and ty for the tip.

Click to expand...

I aim to please

The irony of this thread is that MA has opened up this can of worms by public request - It's our fault !!!

People were outraged by the spider ATH, so, in fairness, MA tried to combat the trapping issue by adding more AI to mobs.

Saying that though, I would like it fixed please. lol

CAC said:

The irony of this thread is that MA has opened up this can of worms by public request - It's our fault !!!

People were outraged by the spider ATH, so, in fairness, MA tried to combat the trapping issue by adding more AI to mobs.

Saying that though, I would like it fixed please. lol

Click to expand...

They havent add anything.. the AI was bugged , and still bugged exactly same way, they havent fix it , change it , or remade it.. MA just changed som number , but well ... its like a car with probleme in engine and you change tire ... it doesnt help much

Raffaele Meiers said:

Yes it seams that even a one line change is too much asked from MA so there is really only the solutin of Etopia to not hunt any ranged Bots/Mobs for the time beeing and do other things.


If the Bots would stop and not shoot anymore instead of stop and not beeing hitable I bet the Bug would have been corrected already I think MA would have shut down the server to prevent us from using this exploit but as they profit they wont change it as they have the best excuse already -

Quote frome the eventual answer from MA

Programmer was in summer vacation so we could not correct this earlyer. We would have as we do not like exploits but it was very hard to spot this tiny little bug that it slipped trough the testing. We are sorry but as you know MA does a lot of testing but it is impossible to test everything.

End of quote

So my suggestion:

When you change something in the code of a Module, like the trapping part of mobs, then test this after, not test opening of Storage or buy ammo from TT but test Trapping of ranged and close range attacking mobs of different kind and in different conditions.

This are my two pecs.


PS:

Including a line of code that checks if the mob can delver damage and then clear the trapping flag is nothing you need several hours but will please a lot of your customers

Click to expand...

Are you actually saying they should test whats related to the new additions and changes theyve made?? OMG!! Thats just SO silly!

If you work at MA that is..

The tweaks were necessary due to exploiters, they just need to fine tune it and someone kinda overlooked ranged mobs

Very interesting conclusion that it's 'our' fault they put this horrible mess of code in

As you'll see from just about every other workaround they make in the game, they never do it properly. They never step back and actually RE-DESIGN the exploitable code, they just create big, ugly workarounds which barely do the job.

I've made it very clear in the past my feelings on the anti-trapping AI, and I think it's disgusting that a year later, almost the same code is in the game.

In my opinion, mobs should never go into a state whereby they cannot be damaged. They should also be intelligent enough to move around the trap, and not just sit there.

As far as I can tell, at the moment, the Mob AI is quite limited. Mobs are not in any way intelligent, they simply have a number of 'states'.

Take a Daikiba for example -- it's not an aggressive animal, and you have to get pretty close to it to activate it's 'attacking' state. This also works with shooting it...

Once it's in the attacking state, it simply moves towards you in a straight line no matter where you're standing. If anything gets in it's way, it becomes trapped, unless you move slightly to the right or left, and it'll eventually clear the obstacle.

Imagine if the majority of trees and rocks were solid, how much of a pain in the neck this would be!

All I'm proposing is that in the case that the mob detects that it cannot move from the position, that it immediately changes direction (like one of those simple toys!), walks that way for a while, then changes direction again towards you.

It's definitely not rocket science to do. Sure, it does mean that the mob is not directly attacking you for a matter of seconds while it manouvers, but at least it's portraying a more realistic set of behaviour.

Other games seem to find this easy, and I'm sure it's pretty simple to do in EU. I'm sure they've thought of this, but probably dismissed it as another exploitable action.

AkiranBlade said:

It's simple, the AI code is expecting the mob to get toe-to-toe with you, so when a ranged mob stops, run to it and stand right in front of it quickly.

This will prevent the trapping situation in most cases.

Click to expand...

I did that already - instinctively. Last time yesterday. I looked down my well worn rascal armour, sighed, dashed into the foe - and died like a samurai. Well... it was an Armax Bull (mature). But that's bushido, the way of the warrior...

But it worked. I know that, because I revived, teleported back like hell and killed the beast from the distance with my Starkhov. Was worth a loot of 31 PED. Very nice.

removed content. After yesterday, I was prolly out of order with what I said

Back to trapment avoidance

Sorry blade

CAC said:

At the end of the day, you can't polish a turd.

Click to expand...

lol!

OK guys thanks for the discussion n'all but this thread is to highlight how to work with the 'temporary' problem that I'm confident MA will be working on.

Let's leave at that in here 'cos I don't want this thread to be locked for the slightest of anti-MA sentiment

Noggin said:

...
In my opinion, mobs should never go into a state whereby they cannot be damaged. They should also be intelligent enough to move around the trap, and not just sit there.

As far as I can tell, at the moment, the Mob AI is quite limited. Mobs are not in any way intelligent, they simply have a number of 'states'.
...

Click to expand...

A 4th grader can program a lego robot to back up, turn and move another direction to get around an obstacle, so one would think MA should be capable to do so as well... but then again...

If the creatures even HAVE different states, MA sure aint very good at analysing state changes.. How hard could it be to realize that "Trapped" means it should go to "get untrapped"?
A challenge that will occur if they make a "get untrapped" function is how far to let a creature run in either direction in order to get out and what to do if it cant get out... Problem is to find a good option, as if it keep trying to get out, but cant, it is for all intents and purposes trapped afterall, only difference is you dont get hit, so you get less decay and youre able to kill the creature...

I gues first thing is to check if it is trapped.

Delivering dmg to a avatar, it does not matter if sucessful or if avatar evades it, is a sign that the mob is not trapped.


How hard can it be to add this check to the trapping module?


I think it is not even a 1 hour work to implement this check!!!!!



So this time I really have no understanding for the delay MA takes to correct this flaw.

It clearly shows their interrest in their customerbase once again.

Regards

Raffaele Meiers said:

So this time I really have no understanding for the delay MA takes to correct this flaw.

Click to expand...

Maybe the countless other bugs introduced in this VU?

there is countless free code on the net for very efficien basic AI for RTS game , and even for multiplayer RTS or for RPG.
There is countless of free C code for AI a lot more efficien interessing , scriptable and less ressource consumind code on the net ...
Why the hell even bother to code that shit dumb AI MA made , when they can just use something 100 time better...

If they dont have better AI , its because they dont whant ...

Keep the comparaison to the lower level ... so compare PE to a free korean game... and even a free korean game got a lot better and flexible AI than PE ...

Etopia said:

there is countless free code on the net for very efficien basic AI for RTS game , and even for multiplayer RTS or for RPG.
There is countless of free C code for AI a lot more efficien interessing , scriptable and less ressource consumind code on the net ...
Why the hell even bother to code that shit dumb AI MA made , when they can just use something 100 time better...

If they dont have better AI , its because they dont whant ...

Keep the comparaison to the lower level ... so compare PE to a free korean game... and even a free korean game got a lot better and flexible AI than PE ...

Click to expand...

I suspect the reason they have made the AI the way it is (so that people get trapped instead of trying to break loose) is because if a mob spend 20 seconds trying to get loose and it still can be hit.. its dead and youve saved the decay..

Tigerman said:

I suspect the reason they have made the AI the way it is (so that people get trapped instead of trying to break loose) is because if a mob spend 20 seconds trying to get loose and it still can be hit.. its dead and youve saved the decay..

Click to expand...

But if the AI is made as it should , mobs wont spend 20 sec in nothing...
Fact is most of the AI problem dont need a work around , they should not even exist in first place with a "normal" AI...
The AI in PE is not more efficien than the one on my gameboy (the old monochrome)....
When i say korean shit free game got a better AI than PE , its sad , but its true....

i know and you know tigerman , the AI was better 3 year ago ... Its an other part of this game that get lower and lower in qualitie...
Right now the PE AI can be coded by all script kiddies around ...
1)Detect player ( more or less far depend on mobs)
2)Run to player
-if can not run to player go to 4
3)Try beat player if close enought
-if not close enought go to 2
4)become invinsible write blabla in yellow

This is the PE ai code ... add som variable for distance of detection , and thats it...
This is the worst lamest shitest dumb AI i ever see...

Etopia said:

But is the AI is made as it should , mobs wont spend 20 sec in nothing...
Fact is most of the AI problem dont need a work around , they should not even exist in first place with a "normal" AI...
The AI in PE is not more efficien than the one on my gameboy (the old monochrome)....
When i say korean shit free game got a better AI than PE , its sad , but its true....

I you know tigerman , the AI was better 3 year ago ... Its an other of this game that get lower and lower in qualitie...
Right now the PE AI can be coded by all script kiddies around ...
1)Detect player ( more or less far depend on mobs)
2)Run to player
-if can not run to player go to 4
3)Try beat player if close enought
-if not close enought go to 2
4)become invinsible write blabla in yellow

This is the PE ai code ... add som variable for distance of detection , and thats it...
This is the worst lamest shitest dumb AI i ever see...

Click to expand...

Am I the only one who feels a little ashamed at the truth of that description. It sounds funny but its true lol

Eto you forgot two points:

2a) if there is a mob between avatar and me stay behind mob
3a) If you are not close enough to beat the avatar and you cant move closer, extend attacking range and turn mob into unhitable mode.

AkiranBlade said:

That's true, but sometimes you might end up in a place where you don't have a choice in the matter

Click to expand...

...like in EU ?!

i still can trapp and sweat mobs, so, any real news ?