The effect of Attributes on Professions

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Gingko

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Bredan Gingko
Hello,

this thread is intended as a supplementary thread to the chipping thread and the other various threads that deal with the impact of skills on professions. The goal is to summarize the effect of the attributes on the professions, as suggested by Witte. As we cannot chip them, most of the work in this thread will be correlation type of work and involve a lot more verification by different avatars.

Summary of general findings / prerequisites:

First of all, the attributes are thought to have a multiplier associated with them, that brings them to the same scale as the skills. At this time, it is thought to be 20. This means, that an attribute of 500 would correspond to a skill of 10000. It is believed that if all contributing skills/attributes are at the old cap of 10000 for skills (and 500 for attributes?), a profession level of exactly 100 would result.

Therefore, the contributions of a skill or attribute to a profession are expressed as %: 10% means that if only this skill was at 10000 and all others are zero, a profession level of 10 (100 * 10%) would be achieved. For attributes, the multiplier has to be considered, so if we say Agility as 10%, then Agility * 20 * 10% is the contribution. All contribution % should add up to 100% for any profession. This has been nicely shown for the Ranged (Sniper, Pistoller) Hit professions here.

Summary of all findings by Attribute:
(it would be a good idea to include the findings from this thread in this list by professions)

Green = confirmed by 3 or more Avatars.
Black = pretty sure but unconfirmed
Red = still guesswork

Agility
8% to Evader, see Evader thread
7% to Brawler (Dmg) and Whipper (Dmg)
3% to all sniper and pistoleer (Hit) professions, see (this thread)
3% to Decoy Dispenser

2% to Knifefighter (Hit), Swordsman (Hit), One and Two handed Clubber (Hit)
2% to Brawler (Hit)
2% to Pet Handler
2% to Colorer
1% to all ranged (Dmg) professions, incl. Mindforce


Intelligence
5% on Paramedic
4% on Tailor (from Wittes data, weight for basic skills like Tailoring miss here)
3% to Colorer
3 % on Prospector and Surveyor (from Wittes data, consistent with my and Jimmy B's Avatar)

2% on all engineer professions
2% on Armor Engineer
2% on Attachments Engineer
2% on Electronics Engineer
2% on Shortblades Engineer
2% on Tool Engineer
2% on Humanoid Investigator
2% on Animal Investigator
2% on Robot Investigator
1% on Mutant Investigator

2% on Pet Handler
2% on Sweat Gatherer (see chipping thread)
1% on Driller and Miner

Strength
7% to melee DAMAGE professions: Knife, Sword, Clubber (1&2)
4% to Swordsman (Hit) and Two handed Clubber (Hit)
3% to One handed Clubber (Hit), Whipper (Hit), Knifefighter (Hit)
3% to Brawler (Hit)

Psyche
5% on Sweat Gatherer (see chipping thread)

Please post your observations in this thread, I will update this post as needed.
 
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Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Some others I found:

Paramedic: 5% intel
Dodger: 4% agility
Decoy dispenser: 3% agi (assuming you only get agi from it)

If we assume that all melee damage comes from strength we get:

Melee damage: 7% strength

Next assumption: all melee hit professions come from agi:

Heavy melee: 6% agi
Light melee: 5% agi
 
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Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Some others I found:

Paramedic: 5% intel
Dodger: 4% agility
Decoy dispenser: 3% agi (assuming you only get agi from it)

Thanks!

I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B?:poke: ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both :(

Paramedic: 4.75 - 5.05% Int with me, so confirmed once :yay:
Dodge: I am missing Dodge skill weight, what did you use?
Decoy Disp.: 2.91 - 3.07% Agi with me, so confirmed once :yay:
 
Nice post Gingko :) Nothing to add from me at this point so this is mainly a lazy subscribe :D

The linked posts for the melee percentages refers to (Dmg) not (Hit) unless I'm mis-reading.

Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Could well be both, it seems reasonable that they'd both apply! Slightly tricky to test as Agility gains could be coming from evade, but you should be able to tell after a while. Also, one could be (Hit) and one (Dmg), would seem to me Strength would more apply to (Dmg) and Agility to (Hit) in a realistic making sense sort of way...
 
I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B?:poke: ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both :(

All the large chips that have been eaten for the chipping experiment suggest very strongly that all the percentages involved are whole numbers, with the exception of MF professions.

Its possible there's a data copying error - I checked all the percentages listed for the Pistoleer profession but nothing else yet. If oddities crop up for anything I'll check the relevant images involved. Some chips we've used are quite small, so a few 1% errors will probably crop up sooner or later...
 
Thanks!

I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B?:poke: ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both :(

from the noob avatar I am pretty confident that:

Heavy Melee hit (2 handed clubber and swordsman) 6% attributes (most likely agility)
Light Melee hit (1 handed clubber, brawler, knifefigter) 5% attribures (likely agi)
Whip hit 5% (likely intel)
All melee damage: 7%

Paramedic: 4.75 - 5.05% Int with me, so confirmed once :yay:
Dodge: I am missing Dodge skill weight, what did you use?
Decoy Disp.: 2.91 - 3.07% Agi with me, so confirmed once :yay:

I took the data from the noob avatar. It had no dodge skill at all.
 
The linked posts for the melee percentages refers to (Dmg) not (Hit) unless I'm mis-reading.

Corrected above, thanks for catching that!

from the noob avatar I am pretty confident that:
All melee damage: 7%

See the correction, another confirmation of the figures ;)

I have the two avatars I am working with (myself and disciple, of latter I have only one set of screenies, she's not been online in parallel to me for a while). I cannot bring the two together with any combination of attributes on the Melee (hit) professions at the moment, I will check my data tomorrow (today is almost over here...). Also, I will post tomorrow an update of the spreadsheet with all the weights, so you can just plug in your figures to check with your own avi... but well.... tomorrow... I had too many beers... :rolleyes:
 
I guess the currently unchipped Martial Arts may clear things up a bit with the melee (Hit) pros when we get it.

Strength 1% seems to fit your data in the spreadsheet best for Knifefighter (Hit) at a quick glance...

Anyway, like I say the %s need a check :)
 
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Next assumption: all melee hit professions come from agi:

Heavy melee: 6% agi
Light melee: 5% agi

Strength 1% seems to fit your data in the spreadsheet best for Knifefighter (Hit) at a quick glance...

This is exactly the issue I am finding...

Knifefighter (Hit):

Myself:
Agility Only 0.57% ... 0.75%
Strength Only 0.93% ... 1.19 %

Disciple (relatively noob):
Agility Only: 3.8% ... 5.6%
Strength only: 1.5 % ... 2.2 %

Disciple matches Witte's n00b nicely but what troubles me is that there is no overlap on the intervals, and disciple is higher in both, so linear combination would not help. Could also mean that I underestimated the error (I use 1/124 for the profession and 1/192 for the skill). I have included the error margins in the new version of the spreadsheet downloadable here.

On the other hand:

Swordsman (Hit):
Myself:
Agility Only 4.33 - 4.49%
Strength Only 7.02 - 7.28%

Disciple:
Agility Only 10.5 - 12.3%
Strength Only 4.1 - 4.8%

Here one Avatar is higher in one, so I can get away with a linear combination, and I do get a prediction within error margins with 2% Agi and 4% Strength for both Avatars :)


I guess the currently unchipped Martial Arts may clear things up a bit with the melee (Hit) pros when we get it.

Not unlocked Martial Arts, so that should not influence the guessing for me at the moment, but for data from higher level Melee Hunters, it would certainly help a lot!
 
The suspect for me at the moment is Melee Combat, which is incidentally one where you had issues with blurred screenies (screenies further up on that page). Don't have much more time today to look into this :(

Ah yes, could well be. I'll take a good look at it all over the weekend. 'Weekends' are currently Friday-Monday for me and I don't have any plans this weekend so I should be able to give it all a good looking at!
 
Hi Jimmy B.,

thanks to a boring teleconference, I have started looking at the screenies... I am not entirely sure but this is what I get out of them:

MC Combat Chip boosted Trabin's skill from 3068 to 3516, so a plus of 448

Knife (Hit) went from 18 +73/96 to 19 + 17/96, so a plus of 0,42
Brawl (Hit) went from 17 + 9/96 to 17 + 60/96, so a plus of 0,54
Whip (Hit) went from 18 +60/96 to 19 + 8/96, so a plus of 0,54

Knife (Hit): 0,42*10000/448 = 9,3% (9%?)
Brawl/Whip (Hit): 0,54*10000/448 = 12% each

So I get 9/12/12 (Knife/Whip/Brawl) while the chipping thread has listed 16/17/12 -- could you verify these specifically? I had to redo them twice, so I am not really sure if this is correct :ahh: .

Now I got to pay attention again they are approaching my topics, so talk later...
 
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I thought the 17, 16 were a bit big when i did it....looks like I messed it up :monkey:

I'll check and update it tomorrow.
 
Geez, I almost feel like spamming a forum :eek:

BUT, there are two more solved, one likely solved but also one more riddle:

First the good news:

One Handed Clubber (Hit): 2% Agility, 3% Strength (confirmed by 2 Avatars)
Two Handed Clubber (Hit): 2% Agility, 4% Strength (confirmed by 2 Avatars)

Assuming that MC contributes 9% to Knifefighter (Hit):
Knifefighter (Hit): 2% Agility, 3% Strength (confirmed by 2 Avatars)

Then, assuming that MC contributes 12% to Whipper (Hit):
Whipper (Hit): 1% Agility, 3% Strength (kind of on the border)

One I cannot solve (MC combat 12%):
Brawler (Hit):
It comes out at 3.1% Strength 1.6% Agility which does not really fit into the system. 3%/2% does not fit, so I guess one of the contributing skills is off by a percent or maybe even half a % (one solution could be CR 3.5% instead of the proven-from-chipping 3%, Strength 3%, Agi 1%, but that is really guessing).

It appears from my disciple (has only used Shortblade, therefore all except Knife is only affected by secondary and general skills), that Brawler (Hit) is a bit different than the rest (0.25 profession levels vs. 0.234 for the rest of the melee ones).
Here's the screenie:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

No more spamming today -- I need some confirmations from 3rd Avatars before I update the first post.
 
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I think for whipper hit and brawler hit, the attributes need to add up to 5% instead of 4%. Maybe 3% agi and 2% str? And it used to be that you gain intelligence from whipping. But I havnt whipped in a while so it can be different now.
 
Geez, I almost feel like spamming a forum :eek:

lol, I felt like that when we cracked the Pistoleer (Hit) one - think I posted about it in four different threads :laugh:

Don't worry about it, its all good stuff :)
 
I think for whipper hit and brawler hit, the attributes need to add up to 5% instead of 4%. Maybe 3% agi and 2% str? And it used to be that you gain intelligence from whipping. But I havnt whipped in a while so it can be different now.
Hey, that was the hint I needed -- for Whipper (Hit), 2% Intelligence, 3% Strength seems to be the answer :cool: Matches both of your criteria and also 2 ava's data.

This stuff is addictive :laugh:
 
Knife (Hit) went from 18 +73/96 to 19 + 17/96, so a plus of 0,42
Brawl (Hit) went from 17 + 9/96 to 17 + 60/96, so a plus of 0,54
Whip (Hit) went from 18 +60/96 to 19 + 8/96, so a plus of 0,54

Knife (Hit): 0,42*10000/448 = 9,3% (9%?)
Brawl/Whip (Hit): 0,54*10000/448 = 12% each

Yup, evidently I could not count very well on that day :laugh:

I think it might be contagious...for Whip, 96-60+8=44, 44/96 = 0.46 :D

So it comes out as Knife 9%, Whip 10%, Brawl 12%
 
2% Intelligence in Humanoid and Animal Investigator confirmed.

More to come.
 
Yup, evidently I could not count very well on that day :laugh:

I think it might be contagious...for Whip, 96-60+8=44, 44/96 = 0.46 :D

So it comes out as Knife 9%, Whip 10%, Brawl 12%

... oh well -- those blurred screenies seem to blur the brain also :rolleyes: - you are perfectly right, so 1:1 ;)

This means also that I cannot get a match with Intelligence on the Whip anymore... only match I can get (but that fits neatly) is 2% Agility, 3% Strength, so at least the sum of 5% is satisfied.

Witte, how sure are you that Intelligence comes from Whip (Hit) vs. Animal Taming?

2% Intelligence in Humanoid and Animal Investigator confirmed.

More to come.

Great :) , updating 1st post...
 
... oh well -- those blurred screenies seem to blur the brain also :rolleyes: - you are perfectly right, so 1:1 ;)

This means also that I cannot get a match with Intelligence on the Whip anymore... only match I can get (but that fits neatly) is 2% Agility, 3% Strength, so at least the sum of 5% is satisfied.

Witte, how sure are you that Intelligence comes from Whip (Hit) vs. Animal Taming?



Great :) , updating 1st post...

Whipping used to embody/inherit many of the skills and attributes that are now part of the taming set of professions (before they were implemented). Whipping doesn't give intelligence now.
 
Armor, Attachments and Electronics engineer all have 2% from Intelligence (data from Gingko, Jimmy). There's no doubt similar results with the other manufacturing professions - I was going in alphabetical order :D

Decoy Dispenser is 3% Agility.
 
1% Intelligence for Driller works for my data and Gingko's. Also 2% Intelligence to Tool Engineer.

I can also further confirm 5% Intelligence to Paramedic.
 
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Cool stuff, all added. I had the same difficulties with Brawler and Ranged Damage as you describe in the other thread, but you seem to have almost resolved it :)

I am on a short holiday trip now :yay: , back Wednesday, so until then, likely no updates.
 
1% Intelligence also to Miner.

3% Intelligence to Surveyor and Prospector confirmed. There's an error in one of the Surveyor percentages, I think its Serendipity which was a messy screen - 2% Serendipity works for me.
 
Pet Handler: Intelligence 2%, Agility 2% works for me and Gingko. That would leave 4% unaccounted for, I guess coming from an unlock (Scientist? Xenobiology?).

Animal Tamer I can't figure out anything sensible at all despite the fact we have 97%. Its possible we're either missing a skill, or one of the percentages are wrong, I'll check them at some point.
 
Back :)

1% Agility to all ranged damage professions confirmed from my end (2 Avatars with two different sets of data each). So added in green up above, as it has been confirmed by Jimmy B and other people in the chipping thread.
 
Welcome back Gingko :)

Bogger has sent me a set of data which I'm currently taking a look at. At first glance I think it confirms the observations I've already made in this thread, but I'll check more closely later!
 
Right, haven't looked at it in huge detail but I think I can confirm the assertions made regarding the melee (Hit) and (Dmg) attributes you've made so far. My confirmations also require some guesswork as to the percentages from MDA and Martial Arts, so they should be taken with a pinch of salt, but I think they're right.

I can't figure out Brawler (Hit) at all. Think I may have a percentage wrong somewhere there, I'll check it another day.
 
I got new rank in Colorer profession directly from agility gain.
 
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