Immortal

u know who it is right

Hi yeah I think I'm here.

immortal its brad u there

ty for rep, it made me chuckle lol

Bored at work as per usual

Wassup m8 !!

I see you still haven't given us your definition of what 'gambling' is so we can see if EU matches or not.

Hi Immortal,

Your opening to your profile was very nicely put and I have to agree with you on all you wrote.

http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/members/immortal.html#vmessage4411

People make of EU what they choose.

Though by now, you should well know you open yourself up to much debate ... Is it really worth it ?

IMHO I have found it best to know and enjoy the freedom of understand and accepting what you wrote and enjoy EU for what it is and what experiences become of my involvement in the universe.

It is great to debate with others what you have written in an attempt to lift the veil over their eyes and set them free ...

But at what expense to you ? My advise from a friend is don't wear yourself down over it. People will only free themselves from the constructs of their belief systems if and when they choose to;

And only when they are ready to take ownership of the actions/activities they undertake in EU.

Alas with that being said, +REP for your effort in making it known your position which is held by many who are free and enjoy EU ;)

Just realise that some are not ready to awaken to experience of being real. Thus experiencing life whether virtual or real rather than judging it hence limiting their views, knowledge & understanding, experiences and most of all their freedom from their own built-up belief systems.

Take Care and may you enjoy your time and experiences in EU,
Fire Sparkz Lavawalker.

The difference with this game is that the person playing is in complete control of their own funds. They choose to hunt a mob, they choose to take the risk. That is why i think giving it a tag is unfair - an individual that lacks self sontrol, or inability to grasp economics, game mechanics or the vast scope of mathematics and underlying synergies within EU and instead uses a hate-word to describe it is what I do not like. It, to me, makes as much sense as religious advocates dismissing pure and provable science as hokum "just because" it doesn't fit their own life philosphy. This game is what people make of it - if people think of it as a fun time to spend their money, to build relationships, to start a trade, to become the most skilled hunter - then they are free to do so. If they are stupid with their money and lose it all - that's their problem. Don't blame the game mechanics. If people don't like how the game works for them, why continue? That is the element where i think people become confused - "i spent 5k ammo, and didn't get much, I should therefore get something in the next 5k" Is the wrong mindset. That is the chance takers mindset. If instead "Oh this 5k didn't work on this mob, maybe i will try mining, or crafting instead, or switch mobs, or go and do some pvp practice, or take on a disciple" were employed, which of these mindsets have more fun? I don't see how it serves the community to dissuade people from enjoying the game in their own way because of a bad decision here and there. Sometimes it does seem unfair because it's real money for real entertainment - but on the flipside of the coin, people complain because the newer players have an advantage, they complain that people with more cashflow have an advantage, they complain that people higher skilled than them have an advantage, they complain that people who started before them have an advantage. Where is the fun in complaining?

Whether it is an RPG or not is irrelevant to whether it is gambling or not, just as having a show at a casino doesn't change the nature of the games being played there. I guess it all depends on what your definition of 'gambling' is. The possibility of winning (or losing) real money while playing is what makes it gambling in my book.

Open ended questions do not give definitive answers.
How is it different from driving a car?
You buy petrol, and it gets you to where you want to go.
In EU, you buy PEDS, and they get you where you want to go.

I have already shown that you can replace the relevant buzz words with 'investment' and 'stockmarket', and if I were inclined i could give just about any analogy to any other system of economics

I'm still curious as to why you ignore the points about this being an rpg, or how at all it is different from any other rpg.

I'm not allowed to mention games here but let's cal this rpg 'IV'. In 'IV', the only way you could achieve the final goals was either by laborious trading or by stealing. Looting (which you have replaced the buzzword 'slotting') was never perpetual. In this game, 'IV' it took a week to get to level 28. It would take over a year to get to level 100... So looting creatures that don't give perpetual return and awful hard-to-get skills... what's the difference?

It is a game, based on random chance, in which you risk real money. It may (or may not be) as predictable as poker or craps. No one would argue that poker and craps are not gambling. You can develop skills to increase your chances of winning. But you are still depending on random chance going your way. You can have good or bad streaks of luck, just like in any gambling. How is EU different?

See, the thing is, you are saying "it is" without backing up. You are saying "it is" by definition "eu" is "gambling", much in the same way as i define an orange as a rock. I'm going to keep calling it a rock. You say it's an orange. Maybe to some people it is an orange but I will keep referring to it as a rock. That is where the meaning is lost.

Your definition of gambling is random chance. In other words, you are saying that EU is unpredictable.

So compared to 'other' mmoRPG's, the reason you use the tag 'gambling' (i.e. rock) is because loots are unpredictable.

If they were predictable, EU would have been buried a long time ago.

EU is closer to the stockmarket: it is about investment, whether in skills, ammo, equipment. Gamblers take risks on the stockmarket too, but the smart people know how to continually profit. If your investment for the month were on ammo, maybe you get 50% return, but you know that next month doing the same thing, 55% return, then 60%, then 65%. A lousy stockmarketers mistake is to expect 1000% return in the first month. ... i will continue this on the blog....

The comment added to your blog by thoreau pointed out very well just as I have that it is gambling. What you should do in your blog is define what gambling IS, at its most basic, and then point out how EU doesn't match that. But if you wish to believe it is not gambling, that is your right. The game is based on random chance.

I have responded to your request in a blog post
http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/blogs/immortal/775-points-note-arguments-against-calling-virtual-universe-gambling-casino.html

I said EU is gambling, you neg repped me and said it wasn't gambling.

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, please explain.

What part of

-put your money in the machine (ie. send to Mindark)

-pull the lever (ie. shoot a mob)

-collect your random winnings (ie. cash out)

do you not understand to be gambling?

THis is really for discussion in PM but since you want it public: I -repped you not for your post, but for the lame comments you gave me in your two -reps (two in the space of a few days I might add) on posts I made. I don't reply -rep if someone -reps me ever, unless I feel the reasons weren't valid. you -repped posts that were either informative (one was an economics discussion) or dry humour, and the reasons you gave in those weren't what i would call 'constructive crticism'. No hard feelings.

Sorry, It's late & I'm tired. What did I do in that post that made an insult to you? Sorry also that I insulted you in a way I did not mean? I don't mind a -rep, good lord, I sure deserve it sometimes... But the link back from the -rep did not place me where the insult seems to have occured? Thanks for any help in this matter.