0% Loot Return

[K-Max]

I believe going to 0 is not an option at fixed 90% over time ratio.

if you start with 1000 ped and get 900 ped back out of that time that is 90% return for that time frame.
if you cycle that 900 ped back in your also losing 10% of your time because you will not be hunting as long with 900 ped as with 1000 ped.

Being your losing time your initial hypothesis will be wrong, I would say at 90% return over time you eventually will average out at a fixed ped value while time becomes infinite.

But being you do other actions in the game you will never see this 90% work, biggest factor your paying MU's or splurging on something extra, you changing from hunting to mining or switching to more decay weapons or changing mobs, list goes on and on that effect the 90% return theory.

 

[e-lite]

...there is absolutely no need to discuss anything here.

So why are you discussing then?

You obviously thought that MA takes 10% and let's you cycle the other 90% forever?

I did? When did I say I though that?

 

[mrproper]

I believe going to 0 is not an option at fixed 90% over time ratio.

That's interesting because....

Math disagrees with you.

 

[wizzszz]

So why are you discussing then?

I'm not discussing - you asked, i answered.
It was not the answer you've been expecting, but still a valid answer.

I did? When did I say I though that?

You didn't say that.

I asked whether you thought so (look at the little question mark at the end of the line).
It is the only logical explanation for this thread though, even if you tell me that you are "not surprised" that it works like this, there must have been a driving force that made you post this thread, no?

 

[e-lite]

I'm not discussing - you asked, i answered.
It was not the answer you've been expecting, but still a valid answer.




You didn't say that.

I asked whether you thought so (look at the little question mark at the end of the line).
It is the only logical explanation for this thread though, even if you tell me that you are "not surprised" that it works like this, there must have been a driving force that made you post this thread, no?

Ait man, Im not gonna argue with you. Whatever you say. I've seen your posts, you're never wrong

 

[wizzszz]

Ait man, Im not gonna argue with you.

Why do you keep asking me questions then?

Whatever you say. I've seen your posts, you're never wrong

What a way to dodge an inconvenient conversation. Yeah, baby, blame it on me!

 

[e-lite]

Why do you keep asking me questions then?



What a way to dodge an inconvenient conversation. Yeah, baby, blame it on me!

Okay man, whatever makes you happy

 

[K-Max]

That's interesting because....

Math disagrees with you.

hmm look at it this way then.

start with 1000 ped in and return 900 ped because that is 90% over that time period. take 900 ped and cycle it in again.
now you put 1900 ped in and return 1710 ped because that is 90% over the first time period plus second time period because you get 90% over total time playing continually. keep appying that eventually your curve of time apporaches infinity and your 90% return approaches a specific ped value which will never reach 0.

90% over time is not set to a fixed time it is total time completely during your play. And you also can't test this in game as you are not guaranteed 90% return off first mob you hunt when you first start even though your equation hypothis suggests this. you can get 0 return on that first mob because of random chance of no loot returned even though you spent ped hunting over that short time period.

I am just pointing out that 90% is just a false percent that people see as an average over set fixed time periods during their hunts. They could be uneco, eco, long hunts, short hunts but they are not all inclusive of all data so just take it as and average and leave it at that. You eventually will either run out of ped because of purchasing vehicles guns etc and paying markup or you will come out ahead because you get that sweat global and hof.

I have seen a noob that played for 10 min get 1500 ped back out of putting 100 ped in so 90% return calc has a very random variable in it. I have also hunted a mob for 6-10 hours and got like 60% back here again 90% return is tossed out the window for that time frame.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

moreover i have see those logs calculation and them are in large part ridiculous. Many of them don t calculate properly item decay+MV , mindforce and implant necessary to move to the hunting spot (in case of hunting)etcetc (but do you read my signature???). But there is no doubt: MA need to make money , whatever is your loot return (yours maybe is 90% but mine never was)in a long run your ped card will be 0. Ofc without considering the few one that hof over time.
I don t see any wrong with that, you pay for your fun.

I guess when people talk about loot balance they don t means that they want to became rich!!! maybe people means that these bad long time returns really kill players, maybe they means that they are sick to see totally noobs getting hof from small mobs, they are sick to see huge Hof versus very poor returns etcetc

But let the paladins of entropia defend their jobs!!!!

 

[billairboy]

But being you do other actions in the game you will never see this 90% work, biggest factor your paying MU's or splurging on something extra, you changing from hunting to mining or switching to more decay weapons or changing mobs, list goes on and on that effect the 90% return theory.

When talking about "90% avarage return" we are talking about the avarage TT value return and cost, no markup included, just the pure tt return/cost per action. People seems to be a bit confused over what the "avarage return" means.

I don't know if the avarage return is 90 %, but probably somewhere between 85-90 %.

 

[mrproper]

hmm look at it this way then.

start with 1000 ped in and return 900 ped because that is 90% over that time period. take 900 ped and cycle it in again.
now you put 1900 ped in and return 1710 ped because that is 90% over the first time period plus second time period because you get 90% over total time playing continually. keep appying that eventually your curve of time apporaches infinity and your 90% return approaches a specific ped value which will never reach 0.

90% over time is not set to a fixed time it is total time completely during your play. And you also can't test this in game as you are not guaranteed 90% return off first mob you hunt when you first start even though your equation hypothis suggests this. you can get 0 return on that first mob because of random chance of no loot returned even though you spent ped hunting over that short time period.

Ok, so you are saying that you get lim(90/100)^n*1000+1000 as n->infinity. Well this gives me:

Or perhaps you were suggesting that you have an infinite supply of 1000 ped deposits. If not, then you will always have what you deposited last after infinite cycles.

I am just pointing out that 90% is just a false percent that people see as an average over set fixed time periods during their hunts. They could be uneco, eco, long hunts, short hunts but they are not all inclusive of all data so just take it as and average and leave it at that. You eventually will either run out of ped because of purchasing vehicles guns etc and paying markup or you will come out ahead because you get that sweat global and hof.

I have seen a noob that played for 10 min get 1500 ped back out of putting 100 ped in so 90% return calc has a very random variable in it. I have also hunted a mob for 6-10 hours and got like 60% back here again 90% return is tossed out the window for that time frame.

Loot is random.
Loot is dynamic.

Globals don't have to necessarily cover the losses of that noob player, they are blindly putting him ahead of the 90% curve, the value is completely random and will show up as often as needed to make sure the balance is over 90%. But don't worry, that player will lose his 1500 ped eventually just like you lose your measly 10 ped loot on the grinding mob...

 

[K-Max]

Ok, so you are saying that you get lim(90/100)^n*1000+1000 as n->infinity. Well this gives me:

Or perhaps you were suggesting that you have an infinite supply of 1000 ped deposits. If not, then you will always have what you deposited last after infinite cycles.


Loot is random.
Loot is dynamic.

Well 90% is no just for short term playing is my main point. 90% is entire EU time instead. Calculation in first post does not consider that. It says 90% of 1k ped so 900 ped, then you get 90% of 900 ped get 812 returned then take 90% of 812 ped again, etc and it doesn't work that way. If you use that method you eventually will be down to only killing one mob and expecting 90% return from killing that one mob and you always have that no loot possibility. And you also have that possiblity of not globaling and still coming out 150% form what you do. So first post equation just needs to be fixed is all, it needs to take into account a random and dynamic variable. 90% is just peoples short term results or long term results etc it is not fact not everyone gets that 90% guaranteed.

 

[wizzszz]

...it doesn't work that way.

It does work that way.

The 90% is just the average long-term return rate, if you start with 1000 PED you can as well end up with way less (or even more) PED, so the result of a (relatively small) run will very likely differ, indeed.

That doesn't change anything in the (simplified) example - MA will take their share from every PED your pay. Everytime you cycle it. Your personal (short term) observations are supposed to look very different, so it is not that obvious that you get a fixed percentage return.

And well, that your PEDs get less and less everytime you cycle them is not exactly a secret (counting TT value only)...

Ok, so you are saying that you get lim(90/100)^n*1000+1000 as n->infinity. Well this gives me:

Or perhaps you were suggesting that you have an infinite supply of 1000 ped deposits. If not, then you will always have what you deposited last after infinite cycles.

That formula reduces to

0 + 1000 = 1000

Of course, after cycling the first 1000 PED until they are gone, when you then add another 1000 PED, you end up with 1000 PED. Somebody trying to trick himself here, those second 1000 PED were never cycled. Doesn't change anything.

 

[mrproper]

That formula reduces to

0 + 1000 = 1000

Of course, after cycling the first 1000 PED until they are gone, when you then add another 1000 PED, you end up with 1000 PED. Somebody trying to trick himself here, those second 1000 PED were never cycled. Doesn't change anything.

Maybe someone should look into that time=money equation. I feel somehow the loot return is not quite 0% when you apply that...

 

[^Punisher^]

1k ped are too low. cycle a lot more.

 

[mrproper]

100 US Dollars are too low. cycle a lot more.

Well, I'm glad everyone is borne in rich families, just waving hundreds around like it's play money...

If anyone wants to go hunt punies for the mission, 1k ped is TOO LITTLE, you know, because what, the mission is 16.000+ mobs and you have just 1000 ped for ammo, just enough to kill 33.000 of them with no loot return needed. CLEARLY too low.

Oh you mean it's too low for YOU. That must mean everyone is like you and the advice is universal. Good to know. Take care...

 

[trance]

I'm not in your fan club Stagger, but I really like your thoughts on free and fun professions. It wouldn't hurt the economy and yes, it would most likely attract more people to EU. +Rep on that one Sir.

I just think the same. More free to play would bring a lot more ppl. Atm EU goes the wrong way! Each year it cost a lot more to play.

Example: wasted 1k peds away in 2 days robo war. I know, event such this pay bad, and only a few get lucky, and all other pay for the shared mobs. But darn, i really like robo fight and that fun to hunt with a lot ppl togheter. Just cant understand, why this must cost that much to get a bit fun in this game. And while everyone hunt robo, each other not event mob loot much better than thus at events. I more think this events are just a money factory for MA! So for me, this robo fight is gone... lost enought!!!

 

[aia]

I kind of realized that this post sounded like I am negative towards EU, but I am really not. The “Return” for me is entertainment and fun, which I am prepared to pay some sort of “fee” for.

Last week I've deposited ~2500 ped.
During robot event, I looted some exceptional lenses and hyper chargers and some 105% (L) armor parts, but nothing more exciting than that. Well a bunch of level 1 Kinetic Attack Chip(L). Not even an ESI.

For an hour or two I was able to hunt drone elites, but then my Hermes shoulderguard(L) broke and the shinguards were also close to giving up; with one shoulderguard in auction at a very high BO and no shinguards at all it means end of "big game hunt".

I currently have about 500 ped left of it. Meanwhile, someone struck a 100k ATH on FOMA... It may be well deserved for the one who got it but it feels like a kick in a bad spot.

 

[Naithen]

The hunting loot return (as implemented by MA) is 100% and I will prove it in few weeks after I have finished collecting all data and prepared a nice post with all references.

Bring it on! lol

 

[Naithen]

Fact:In order to get the best results for your $BUCK-> Your probably better off to not play at all!

 

[Terminator]

Bring it on! lol

I'm sure a legendary uber as you don't need advice for profitting in EU...

 

[ruslan]

90% return per hunt over XX time and cycled ammo. Let’s say this is true. So you decide that you will make only one last cash deposit into EU ever, just a one-time chunk of lets say 1000 ped (Amount not so important, just making a point). You go all in and spend the full amount on a hunt and get 900 ped (90%) in return (Only taking TT value in consideration). You cycle this 900 ped and next time you’re back with 810 ped TT, next time 729 and the next 656… Well, and so on, you get where I am going with this. So unless you keep depositing cash into EU, wouldn’t it really be 0% return?

In order to get close to 0% you'd need to cycle through it, which would mean that
with your 1000 initial ped your total turnover would be close to 9000 ped.

Now, in order for you to keep a steady average return of 90% you need to do approximately 10 smaller hunts.
So, if you deposit 1000ped, and expect to get 90% of that back as 900ped, then you need to split that 100ped loss into 10 smaller losses:
cycling 100ped 10 times,
90ped 10 runs
81ped 10 runs
72*10
65*10
59*10
53*10
48*10
43*10
38*10
34*10
31*10
28*10
25*10
22*10
20*10
18*10
16*10
15*10
14*10
13*10
11*10
10*10

that's 220 hunts or 220 days of playing at 45 cents a day or $15 a month on average..

But, noone is stopping you from going mad with overindulgence and maybe looting some cool shit,
Mod Fap service anyone?

 

[Dr.D.C.]

In order to get close to 0% you'd need to cycle through it, which would mean that
with your 1000 initial ped your total turnover would be close to 9000 ped.

Now, in order for you to keep a steady average return of 90% you need to do approximately 10 smaller hunts.
So, if you deposit 1000ped, and expect to get 90% of that back as 900ped, then you need to split that 100ped loss into 10 smaller losses:
cycling 100ped 10 times,
90ped 10 runs
81ped 10 runs
72*10
65*10
59*10
53*10
48*10
43*10
38*10
34*10
31*10
28*10
25*10
22*10
20*10
18*10
16*10
15*10
14*10
13*10
11*10
10*10

that's 220 hunts or 220 days of playing at 45 cents a day or $15 a month on average..

But, noone is stopping you from going mad with overindulgence and maybe looting some cool shit,
Mod Fap service anyone?

that is clearly what for sure never happen in game!!!!!! pls let me know someone that deposit 1000ped and is able to perform 200 hunt, play 220days......spending 45 cents at day!!!!!

 

[SunnyS]

In order to get close to 0% you'd need to cycle through it, which would mean that
with your 1000 initial ped your total turnover would be close to 9000 ped.

Now, in order for you to keep a steady average return of 90% you need to do approximately 10 smaller hunts.
So, if you deposit 1000ped, and expect to get 90% of that back as 900ped, then you need to split that 100ped loss into 10 smaller losses:
cycling 100ped 10 times,
90ped 10 runs
81ped 10 runs
72*10
65*10
59*10
53*10
48*10
43*10
38*10
34*10
31*10
28*10
25*10
22*10
20*10
18*10
16*10
15*10
14*10
13*10
11*10
10*10

that's 220 hunts or 220 days of playing at 45 cents a day or $15 a month on average..

But, noone is stopping you from going mad with overindulgence and maybe looting some cool shit,
Mod Fap service anyone?

that is clearly what for sure never happen in game!!!!!! pls let me know someone that deposit 1000ped and is able to perform 200 hunt, play 220days......spending 45 cents at day!!!!!

Agree with Dr.D.C.

 

[ruslan]

Come on, there are many people doing this sort of thing, they rarely global, but... Or was this a trick question?

 

[Igorl]

Dude, you're not reading properly. I didn't just find out... If you read my first post again you'll see that I am surprised that this isn't discussed more.

Trust me, this is discussed frequently for like 7 years that I remember...

I.

 

[Wildman Alpha]

I been here since 2005, how many others can say that? A few been here since then, Ok now how many others still play other games since 2005? the same game that is.

 

[prism]

In order to get close to 0% you'd need to cycle through it, which would mean that
with your 1000 initial ped your total turnover would be close to 9000 ped.

Now, in order for you to keep a steady average return of 90% you need to do approximately 10 smaller hunts.
So, if you deposit 1000ped, and expect to get 90% of that back as 900ped, then you need to split that 100ped loss into 10 smaller losses:
cycling 100ped 10 times,
90ped 10 runs
81ped 10 runs
72*10
65*10
59*10
53*10
48*10
43*10
38*10
34*10
31*10
28*10
25*10
22*10
20*10
18*10
16*10
15*10
14*10
13*10
11*10
10*10

that's 220 hunts or 220 days of playing at 45 cents a day or $15 a month on average..

But, noone is stopping you from going mad with overindulgence and maybe looting some cool shit,
Mod Fap service anyone?

I think people like to cycle the ped they have.

Day one - 1000 ped to 900
Day two - 900 ped to 810
Day three - 810 ped to 729
Day four - 656.1
Day five - 590.49
Day six - 531.44
Day seven - 478.29
Day eight - 430.46
Day nine - 387.42
Day ten - 348.67
Day eleven - 313.81
Day twelve - 282.42
Day thirteen - 254.18
Day two hundred and twenty - shut the fuck up

Seriously one of the most disingenuous posts I have seen on here. Going from being able to go on a few hour hunt on the first day to having 25% of your deposit left in the first two weeks. Two hundred twenty days my ass. Does MA pay you?

 

[prism]

Lets look at it another way... say someone wanted to cycle 100 ped every day. The 1000 ped deposit would last less than 100 days (10 ped loss per day). And after about 70 days they'd get to play for maybe 15 minutes a day. Assuming they stuck with punies the entire time. If they tried to move up their playtime would go from hours to minutes very quickly.

Assuming they don't profit on mu, which is a pretty fucking safe assumption if they are hunting and starting from scratch.

 

[DoubleWolf]

Seriously one of the most disingenuous posts I have seen on here. Going from being able to go on a few hour hunt on the first day to having 25% of your deposit left in the first two weeks. Two hundred twenty days my ass. Does MA pay you?

Disingenuous? Are you saying it's impossible to do that?

I haven't deposited in 3 years and my account is worth twice as much as what I've put in, with less than 1/4th of that accounted for by skill value.

Does MA pay me? No. Other players do...