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Info: 33,839 Active Players in Entropia and cost comparrisons to other MMORPGs...

THANATOS

THANATOS

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Simon Thanatos Smythe
The other day I saw a post by Marco from FPC that made me think he had divulged quite a bit of information without realising just how much he had given away.

The statement was "The average revenue is roughly $23 per month and player today."

Now, I have made some pretty big assumptions, and may have missed the bigger picture here, so please shout up if you see any reason why my assumptions might be wrong, or if you can make any more assumptions than I have. This info is only for general discussion, I find this stuff interesting, but I understand some people may think so what etc... It is also not my intention so flame MA or FPC.

I interpret Marco's statement to mean that FPC have a turnover of $23 per player on average. This is the average player and some spend more, some spend less. It is not their profit per player, it is just their income. They have to take expenses off that figure to reach what their profit may be.

Anyway, I conclude the following assumptions:

Using the list on this site of Top Ten paid for MMORPG (and without naming other games)....

The most popular MMORPG costs $12.99 to $14.99 per month.
The 2nd Most popular costs $14.99 a month
The 3rd most popular costs $15 a month
The 4th most popular costs $14.95 a month
The 5th most popular costs $12.95 a month

Assumption 1: Entropia Costs more than half as much again of any other top 5 MMORPG. (More than 53% more to be exact)

---------------------------​

Last year (2008) they took 66,625,069.00 SEK which is $9,339,679
So $9,339,679 divided by 12 is $778,306 revenue per month
$778,306 divided by $23 = 33,839 players (They certainly dont have 500,000 players all paying $23 or their figures wouldnt add up)
Assumption 2: Entropia has 33,839 active players (Although what defines a player as active is unknown - I would guess at least one login in the finacial year)

-------------------------------
​
It has been previously stated by MA that they aim to cost $1 an hour to the player, so this gives us...

Assumption 3: The average player plays 23 hours a month​

--------------------------​


Running out of time to post more thoughts now, but interested to hear other peoples opinions about these assumptions. Personally I think $23 is far too much given how the game is playing at the moment, plus I kind of wonder why it is so much - why do they need to charge twice as much as some other MMORPG's to remain profitable? That said, its not as bad as i thought it was! :laugh:

I think the 2nd and 3rd assumption are quite plausable figures - what do you think? Interested to hear your thoughts...
 
Hmmmm, interesting...
 
i think they can charge more because here u have the chance of winning a few thousand dollars mind u a small chance none the less a chance.

Also i would wonder how Non depositing players fit into the equation...

They do technically spend money. They sell their sweat to players that depo'd to buy their sweat. i couldnt think non depositors go through $23 a month.

Interesting thoughts tho thanx ~!
 
Nice observations indeed! :)

I have to comment a bit tho, as I can't see how people can compare the cost of any MMORPG out there to a Real Cash Economy "game" as Entropia? Dosen't people see that there are major differences between MMORPG's and a RCE game? :scratch2:

Secondly, to ask why the game costs this much. A very good reason for that is:
The more income the game has, the bigger the jackpots, bigger ATH's, higher priced items.
This is probably one of the biggest reasons for the high cost of RCE games, as big jackpots attracts new players. The big dream of almost every new player in this game ;)

A +rep comming your way for some nice observations and math :)
 
Interesting numbers. Nice work, though I admit I haven't taken the time to double check your math.

THANATOS said:
Personally I think $23 is far too much given how the game is playing at the moment, plus I kind of wonder why it is so much - why do they need to charge twice as much as some other MMORPG's to remain profitable?
Click to expand...

I can answer your question with a question:

How much of that $23/month can the avg. person withdraw if they really wanted? ;)

This is what's kept me here. In those "other MMOs" I would pay $xx.xx/month, regardless of how much/little I play, and I'll never get that money back (legally).

But here, I can choose how much to depo. On good times, I can go 3 months without depoing at all. That 3 months of free playing.

And in the end, I can sell everything I have and (at current prices vs total deposits) get back ~50-60% of my money back. :)

EDIT:
And plus rep for kindly observing the forum rules. :)
 
Last edited:
Quite plausable figures, but i guess that isnt that far off the scale ;)
 
verry interesting :wise:
 
JohnCapital said:
I can answer your question with a question:
How much of that $23/month can the avg. person withdraw if they really wanted? ;)
Click to expand...

nothing, because they are in MA's pocket :scratch2: if i understand marco's comment right
 
Repeat on:INTRESTING!!

Ill add 1 more thing:even 33xxx players is for my assumption too much.Because u have players that cant coontrol themselves,or dont have 2 and spent a sh.tload of money here.BUt,as they pay for non depositors,that comes to 23 $.I dont know if anyone can check how many different avas have globaled since ENTROPIATRACKER is on,but that number+2 k and ull be spot on....
 
Other attempts to estimate the player amount have landed at around 40,000, so 33,839 seems plausible.
 
Lina Tora Luned said:
nothing, because they are in MA's pocket :scratch2: if i understand marco's comment right
Click to expand...

Even if $23/month is what they get from me after everything is completely said and done, I still consider that a worth-while price for the amount of entertainment I'm getting.
 
I think "active playing" means spending any amount of peds, pecs or even fraction of pec i.e. pay aution fee, dacay armor from one hit, shot opalo once etc. So 23$ avg is quite possible.
 
interesting figures mate.

Just a thought, I think that being a bit more expensive per month than a bulk of the other MMO's is a good thing. It seems to keep a bulk of the friggin snot nosed kids that make the "other" MMO's almost unplayable for me out. ANd like John said this one I have the option to depo or not, pay as I play and withdraw when I want (and try to get some of my money back :) )
 
Well put observations man.
Subscribing myself for sure. :)
 
after almost 3 years virtualy non-stopplaying, hmm I think if I chip out, sell eveyrthing I own and skills ( even the 100 skills points ones )
I always end up about 40 usdollar per month lol
Maybe if I gather sweat for another 3 years, it will be 30 usdollar per month :)
Not everyone can take money out, usualy just big lost for the average players.

It make sense, if MA take 23 usdollar dollar, other people who is making money with MV -> then hmm yeh 40 bucks a month should come close to that....

I fear it will only go up in the future with more privatised LA's , if I go mine nowaday, it is very easy to run into a LA with a 9.85% tax lol
 
I was talking with a friend the other day regarding active population in EU.

We can up with a similar total as over all people who just log in during the month. We broke it down even futher to guesstimate that the total number of players that play everyday for avg of 2 hours is under 10k with that rising to maybe 22k on weekends.

From there we did our math guessing on what we really pay to play EU. I wont go into that as I have no real numbers to go on but I think we are actually quite close for an avg of what the everyday players pay to be in EU.

If they dont change soon, EU will be the newbs that play for a day or two and quit and the few high dollar gambling addicts left to complain at each other who is now getting more then their fair share.

Shame I dont own a porch in EU to sit on and Crack a beer open to watch it all crumble in 2012 (pun intended on last line)
 
Interesting indeed, but I wonder what he ment with 23$/month and player.
Their revenue comes from a part of decay, is it that revenue he means?
Or any kind of money they get as revenue from decay and bankinterest
from X amount of $ at bankaccount? (They had 1.2million SEK in interest
some year ago.) Are there even more ways for them to get as revenue?
There are a lot to think about when it comes to calculating things in EU. :)
Sadly, when I see any statement from them, my hype-warning start to
scream. Maybe there are less hyping now, don't now, but over the years
I've learned to take any statement with a pinch of salt. ;)
 
Thaddeuss said:
i think they can charge more because here u have the chance of winning a few thousand dollars mind u a small chance none the less a chance.

Also i would wonder how Non depositing players fit into the equation...

They do technically spend money. They sell their sweat to players that depo'd to buy their sweat. i couldnt think non depositors go through $23 a month.

Interesting thoughts tho thanx ~!
Click to expand...

not totally exact IMO. If u spend more u have more chance to gain more:

es you buy a ML35, a shadow armors and than kill desplator the all day: you have the chance to gain some good.

U buy a p5, use a ghost and u hunt argos, your chances dwop down a lot.

So i don t see any reason to charge more.

Moreover the not depositor players for me are a leggend or in any case their number is trascurable. The don t depositor players quit the game very soon, the other few ones numbering are like white flies.
 
Dr.D.C. said:
Moreover the not depositor players for me are a leggend or in any case their number is trascurable. The don t depositor players quit the game very soon, the other few ones numbering are like white flies.
Click to expand...

Really? I know a whole bunch of non-depositing players...

I started depositing this year, after several years of non-depositing :D

Reasons:
1) Got a card so I am able to deposit...
2) Feels good to have 200PED/month :silly2:
3) Sweating got boring, I am bad at doing stuff over and over :laugh:
4) Still at a (fairly nice) profit thanks to my 6000PED HoF earlier this year :D

I deposit 200PED/month and I play 40-50 hours/month or something, which IMO is good entertainment value ;) out of this I get some argo hunting, some mining, some opalo/tt melee hunting, etc...
 
yep nice observations....
 
xInFernaLx said:
Nice observations indeed! :)

I have to comment a bit tho, as I can't see how people can compare the cost of any MMORPG out there to a Real Cash Economy "game" as Entropia? Dosen't people see that there are major differences between MMORPG's and a RCE game? :scratch2:

Secondly, to ask why the game costs this much. A very good reason for that is:
The more income the game has, the bigger the jackpots, bigger ATH's, higher priced items.
This is probably one of the biggest reasons for the high cost of RCE games, as big jackpots attracts new players. The big dream of almost every new player in this game ;)

A +rep comming your way for some nice observations and math :)
Click to expand...

Good point, its pretty fair to say when comparing prices, this game does offer something no other game can - the ability to make a profit - run a business or win a large loot, either way, its something no other game can (legitimately) offer (excluding the game thats not a game ;))



JohnCapital said:
Interesting numbers. Nice work, though I admit I haven't taken the time to double check your math.

I can answer your question with a question:

How much of that $23/month can the avg. person withdraw if they really wanted? ;)

This is what's kept me here. In those "other MMOs" I would pay $xx.xx/month, regardless of how much/little I play, and I'll never get that money back (legally).

But here, I can choose how much to depo. On good times, I can go 3 months without depoing at all. That 3 months of free playing.

And in the end, I can sell everything I have and (at current prices vs total deposits) get back ~50-60% of my money back. :)

EDIT:
And plus rep for kindly observing the forum rules. :)
Click to expand...

Another good point, however this is only a vailid point depending on how FPC view their revenue. E.G if they are talking about money that goes directly to them (decay for instance) that does not get paid back out in loot etc, then the amount you can withdraw is irrelevent, as it comes out of your own money, not FPC revenue.

By this reasoning, it actually costs the average player a great deal more than $23 a month, as that would just be the Revenue and does not include loots you win back from your deposited funds.

However, if their revenue means deposited funds, then yes, the fact some of that money is saved in gear, skills etc then it actually costs you $23 a month less what ever you withdraw when you quit playing. (I would imagine that would bring it back within the same costs as any other MMORPG tbh...

It would be great if Marco read this and stepped in to explain exactly what the statement he made meant (but not holding my breath for that! :D)


Joat said:
Interesting indeed, but I wonder what he ment with 23$/month and player.
Their revenue comes from a part of decay, is it that revenue he means?
Or any kind of money they get as revenue from decay and bankinterest
from X amount of $ at bankaccount? (They had 1.2million SEK in interest
some year ago.) Are there even more ways for them to get as revenue?
There are a lot to think about when it comes to calculating things in EU. :)
Sadly, when I see any statement from them, my hype-warning start to
scream. Maybe there are less hyping now, don't now, but over the years
I've learned to take any statement with a pinch of salt. ;)
Click to expand...

And you added another thought to my brain with your comments here... what about the big sales.... TI, CND, Banks, LA's, CP etc etc... traditionally there is one of these every year which surely must be included as revenue for them on the basis that value of deposit stays in game (as even if someone sells it another buyer takes on the value) and they only guarantee the TT value of 1 pec :laugh: So, in this years example of a $330,000 spread between 33,839 active players, the sale alone would contribute almost $10 for every players average (approx 81 cents a month for every single player.... thanks Buzz for contributing! :D)


Some good discussion so far, many thoughts I hadnt considered being added! +reps all round!
 
.


You can’t compare two things of different nature. In the world of regular pay-to-play MMORPG’s you have to buy the game and pay a monthly fee to access the server. If you play a little, a lot or not at all, you still have to pay to access the server. In Entropia not.

In Entropia the cost is what each decides to spend; from nothing to a lot all is possible. And that’s why it may appear expensive compared to fixed fees.

Now, if each player in Entropia have spend 23$ a month or at least the cost of a regular pay-to-play game + monthly fee, as a minimal participation, that would have had a fantastic impact on Entropia economy.

23$ may be what it appears simply because some do not spend at all while some spend less, for that to be many others have to spend more.

In regular pay-to-play less or nothing is not possible, so not comparable. Not cheaper, not expensivier, just different.


..
 
Sonea said:
.


You can’t compare two things of different nature. In the world of regular pay-to-play MMORPG’s you have to buy the game and pay a monthly fee to access the server. If you play a little, a lot or not at all, you still have to pay to access the server. In Entropia not.

In Entropia the cost is what each decides to spend; from nothing to a lot all is possible. And that’s why it may appear expensive compared to fixed fees.

Now, if each player in Entropia have spend 23$ a month or at least the cost of a regular pay-to-play game + monthly fee, as a minimal participation, that would have had a fantastic impact on Entropia economy.

23$ may be what it appears simply because some do not spend at all while some spend less, for that to be many others have to spend more.

In regular pay-to-play less or nothing is not possible, so not comparable. Not cheaper, not expensivier, just different.


..
Click to expand...


This is a good point, its always worth bearing in mind, $23 a month is what we choose to pay, not what MA make us pay.

It's comparable to those experimental downloads that have been going on recently, where copyrighted content is made available to download and people can pay what they want instead of a set price and the providors ended up earning more than when it was sold full price in the shops....

Who knows, maybe if other MMORPG picked up on what the average player "wants" to pay, they might put up their prices!:silly2:
 
THANATOS said:
And you added another thought to my brain with your comments here... what about the big sales.... TI, CND, Banks, LA's, CP etc etc... traditionally there is one of these every year which surely must be included as revenue for them on the basis that value of deposit stays in game (as even if someone sells it another buyer takes on the value) and they only guarantee the TT value of 1 pec :laugh: So, in this years example of a $330,000 spread between 33,839 active players, the sale alone would contribute almost $10 for every players average (approx 81 cents a month for every single player.... thanks Buzz for contributing! :D)


Some good discussion so far, many thoughts I hadnt considered being added! +reps all round!
Click to expand...
My guess is that these PEDs from large sales are used (partly) in events,
like the prices in the Merry Mayhem, and also as promotion at Games
Convention and similar where they hand out free PED, LAN-sponsoring and
so on.
 
33k active players (active meaning 1 login per 12months) sounds feasible.
I'd still be surprised if more than 10k of those login every month and even more surprised if 10k even made any deposits whatsoever.

I can only speak from my experience and tell you that I myself accounted for 10x that "average cost per player" up until 2 months ago. There was atleast 1 other player in my soc who spent the same level of deposits as I did.
We also had over 50 non-depositors in our soc.

Only the depositing players were consistently active in our soc.

I am still of the belief that less than 20% of the so-called "active" participants (logged in within the last year) account for 100% of deposits.

Still, an interesting observation...
 
i bet the bedst nr of activ players you can get is from tracker.com

the ones ther deposit and ar active and plays and make the world go around is on the tracker more or less

and its not 33k pepols thats for sur
 
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