FYI: A reasonable price?

[Luckycharm]

I wonder if the ppl that make wormholes sweat it all themselves lol. Over 600 ME per use ... but that's not re-implemented yet

 

[Stutoman]

Why not? It is possible that I have all my time and I appreciate the landscape.

I would understand an increase of sweat value if newbs need tools with decay or if like in the past we was not able to do it ourself after few days, but actually it's not the case.

I dont ask you to give your sweat for free ofc. I just say that it will not work if sweaters try to increase the MU too much because buyers can do it for free and if it is possible to make a living with sweat gathering Entropia will die because 80%++ of participants will not be fool enough to deposit anymore.



.

10ped for 6.5 hours work itself isn't that much. Thats $1. I think it would in no way affect the depositors because a $10 deposit = 65 hours of sweating

 

[Bernz]

aH, I forgot that one..

so your saying that we will be seeing all the ubers sweating just because its free?

Not all ofc. But dont think that because they are Ubers it automatically mean they are crazy or lazy. They actually buy it to save time and to help newcomers but the main reason why they buy it instead of doing it themself it's because it's cheap.

It would never work but let's say newbs succeed to raise the MU of sweat and nothing change in the SG system (free and no skill cap), you will soon see a lot of them gathering sweat themself, so you will have even less buyers, and the stock of sweat will raise and you will have to drop the MU again anyway.

It's not the first time this subject is bring here and things have never changed.



.

 

[Bernz]

10ped for 6.5 hours work itself isn't that much. Thats $1. I think it would in no way affect the depositors because a $10 deposit = 65 hours of sweating

oK.
I did not want to say it but now I will.


All you have to do is Deposit 10$ instead of "working that hard" for 65 hours. I dont think 10$ will affect your RL that much.

In 2010 you can easily earn 10$ in less than 1-1,5 hour.
C'mon, you can do it. Move your ass from your velcro seat and go offer your gardening services in your neighborhood. Like here in Entropia, you will find someone who dont take care of his garden himself and you'll get more $ in less time.



.

 

[Stutoman]

oK.
I did not want to say it but now I will.


All you have to do is Deposit 10$ instead of "working that hard" for 65 hours. I dont think 10$ will affect your RL that much.

In 2010 you can easily earn 10$ in less than 1-1,5 hour.
C'mon, you can do it. Move your ass from your velcro seat and go offer your gardening services in your neighborhood. Like here in Entropia, you will find someone who dont take care of his garden himself and you'll get more $ in less time.



.

The point is new players want to experience a game for atleast a week or more before deciding to invest money. 4.5ped won't exactly give a great impression after they work their arses off for 6.5 hours. I'm beginning to think that you are infact a sweat buyer and are defending low prices.

 

[nutter]

The point is new players want to experience a game for atleast a week or more before deciding to invest money. 4.5ped won't exactly give a great impression after they work their arses off for 6.5 hours. I'm beginning to think that you are infact a sweat buyer and are defending low prices.

With many games one does not get to 'try' the game without having to part with money.

I personally believe that anyone who cannot afford $15 per month to play a game the way it was meant to be played, should be using the time spent 'sweating' in a more productive manner IRL to ensure that they CAN afford their lesiure pursuits. If you can afford broadband, a computer that is capable of running EU enough to be able to sweat and electricity to run the same you CAN afford to spend $15 a month to play. Earning $15 IRL might take an hour or two. One can then depo this and play without having to spend 6.5 hours sweating and then a further 2 hours on a forum bitching about your freebies being 'hard work'.

It does not make any sense whatsoever to spend 6.5 hours sweating to make 6 ped or even 10 ped.

What grates my craw is those whining about the price of sweat forget that they are playing for FREE! How ungrateful to use a companies product for free and then complain that you aren't earning enough playing it ! o_0

In addition, sweaters do not 'work hard'. They click a mouse or a key. They CHOSE to do this. They don't have to do it in order to play.

Sorry, but this whole 'im a poor sweater who can't afford to deposit waa waa waa...i work hard and get no peds for my freebies waa waa waa' is bullshit.

Suck it up, buttercup. Sweat if you want, but its a buyers market and all the crying in the world is not gonna make your game experience any better.

 

[Bernz]

The point is new players want to experience a game for atleast a week or more before deciding to invest money. 4.5ped won't exactly give a great impression after they work their arses off for 6.5 hours. I'm beginning to think that you are infact a sweat buyer and are defending low prices.

I understand when you say it's dull to sweat 6,5 hours for only few Peds.
But I hope you also understand that easy and free Peds is not good for Entropia.

Let's say it's easy to collect sweat and the value is what you want......
After one week of easy Peds gathering, will you deposit or continue to sweat?

On my side I'm begining to think that you dont want to try the game before deposit but instead using the Peds from those who did it to make a living in EU.

And no, I dont really feel the need to defend low price of sweat because..... I'll say it again , if the value increase as much as froobs dream about it, I will just gather it myself.




.

 

[Zacariaz]

One of two things can happen. Either the sweat price is low, in which case the demand will be fairly high, as stuff like nerveblast, firestorm and heal chips will not be too expensive to use or the sweat price is high, in which case ME will only be needed for tp'ing as the rest of the MF category is useless due to crappy eco and thus demand will be low.

It sucks, but that's just the way it is. My recommendation is to get a paper route and deposit the money. It pays better and is probably more fun.

 

[Bernz]

My recommendation is to get a paper route and deposit the money. I pays better and is probably more fun.

Obviously froobs dont want to hear things like that. They want you to do the paper route for them. If not, you are an anti newbs. That's what I understand when I read threads like this one.



.

 

[Zacariaz]

Obviously froobs dont want to hear things like that. They want you to do the paper route for them. If not, you are an anti newbs. That's what I understand when I read threads like this one.



.

I simply provide the explanation to why things are as they are and then the solution to the problem. People can do what they want, I don't really care. I'm not even using my tp chip any more.

 

[Sirhc]

I've been know to sweat mobs now and then when loot stinks. I gathered close to 50 bottles the other day off a Chomp on our LA before it noticed me(also found some rutol there but that's besides thre point).

Best thing a new player can do is get a good mentor who will help them out by paying a little more for their sweat. Well when and if that system is implemented that is.

I would rather pay my disciple some extra PED than someone who is simply the ME middleman.

Prices will always fluctuate depending on situations in EU. When MF is updated I expect sweat to be worth more especially if MF is something more useful in terms of healing, hunting, focusing, and whatever else FPC comes up with.

Prices will remain low due to more supply than demand at the moment, nothing can change that except FPC IMHO.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Psionic22]

assuming we don't have a sticky thread already. Can someone make a thread showing how they aren't going to change the price of sweat. If we do can someone just post a link here and any other thread that argues the point.

and a little background by me I still sweat from time to time and I have been in game aprox. 5 years.

 

[Peatie]

10ped for 6.5 hours work itself isn't that much. Thats $1. I think it would in no way affect the depositors because a $10 deposit = 65 hours of sweating

Can we just be really clear about something here... it is NOT "6.5 hours work" it is 6.5 hours of game time. It may not be the most exciting of activies but you are getting experience and skills, and making peds. I think most crafters/hunters/miners who be over the moon to to MAKE so little, as opposed to losing so much as most do. Yes the sweaters sweat so other don't have to, but the hunters/crafters/miners also provide the market with items and services. Sweaters are not unique in that respect.

Personaly I have no problem paying more for sweat if it was actually helping new players get into the game, but I rather suspect the majority of sweaters these days are anything but new. If you've been sweating for more than a month or so I think you've had more than a reasonable amount of time to discover if the game, er sorry universe, is right for you or not. It seems a bit off to me to then moan that people like myself are taking advantage of you, because we don't want to deposit more to pay for your game time.

I know it'll never happen, but I wish the sweat cap would be reintroduced. Yes a number of people will create multiple accounts as they did in the past, but I still think it would be the best of a bad lot. Yes it would probably drive the sweat price up a bit, thats fine with me, as at least most of it would be going to new players instead of freeloaders.

Just my

 

[Oleg]

Had the same at PA swamp. all mobs offer the same sweat per pull.

What worked before does not work now. I had to change my hunting grounds after VU10, now maybe you need to change your sweating grounds.

Adapt and prosper.

Also to your before post: Yes you can get it yourself for free so what? there are people who pay for a gardener to do their gardening for them but they don't go and say that they can just pay them extremely low prices or whatever they want just because they can do it themselves for free! Its 6.5 hours work for 1k of sweat!

Some people pay a gardener, some people don't. Some people like or are happy to do it themselves, some people aren't. Some people have the knowledge to do it themselves, some people don't.

A professional gardener has to do a lot more than press a button repeatedly though. People spend years learning how to tend a garden properly. You can learn everything you need to know about sweating in 5 minutes.

The point is new players want to experience a game for atleast a week or more before deciding to invest money. 4.5ped won't exactly give a great impression after they work their arses off for 6.5 hours. I'm beginning to think that you are infact a sweat buyer and are defending low prices.

What you think new players should get, and what new players actually get, are two different things.

If you think the system is wrong, send a support case. You won't get anywhere by telling other players that they should do what benefits you.

And if you don't want to look like a total idiot, do some research. Bernz owns a Land Area. He doesn't need to stand in PA buying sweat for nickels and dimes every day. The reason he disagrees with you is because he's been in EU for many years and knows a lot more about it than you do. You would do much better learning from him than arguing with him.

 

[Outman]

The price of ME has to do with both nexus and sweat. So if the price of nexus rises what people will pay for sweat drops. Also once it has dropped it is pretty easy to keep it there. Sweat buyers already have a low reputation ingame, so they have no reason to try and give back to a community which hates them.

 

[jojo07]

oK.
I did not want to say it but now I will.


All you have to do is Deposit 10$ instead of "working that hard" for 65 hours. I dont think 10$ will affect your RL that much.

In 2010 you can easily earn 10$ in less than 1-1,5 hour.
C'mon, you can do it. Move your ass from your velcro seat and go offer your gardening services in your neighborhood. Like here in Entropia, you will find someone who dont take care of his garden himself and you'll get more $ in less time.



.

Well we don t to forget your computer use electricity if you count 65 hours of intence sweat it will cost you more than 10$ in elec

Then work 1 hours won 10$ use it into entropia and if you are noob you can use it during alot of time

 

[strekepeke]

I started playing on 06/06/2006, and spend 95% of that time at sweating.
If you think the sweat price is not resonable, do something else.
When i have 1, 2 or 3k, i sell it in 10 minutes, dont wait for hours to get maybe 0.01 more. There are always players (resellers or not) who give you a fair price.
And i told it years ago already: if sweating is "hard work" for you, find a job, this is a game.
Sweating is just started again and for some players its never enough.
Was reading threads like this maybe 1000 times already.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Pre-VU10 sweat prices dropped ped by ped over about a year from 7ped to 3.5ped per k.

Now the rate of sweating is less than half of what it was before VU10 (150 bottles an hour approx)

You still get around the same amount of sweat per hour as you did before VU10 so nothing did change at all in terms of quantity.

Already i've seen the resellers getting greedy, 4.5ped per k is incredibly low.

Can you imagine being a noob sweating 6.5 hours to get 1k of sweat and then being offered enough for just 450 ammo which can be burned on an opalo quite easily in 20 minutes?

Same time as before same price as before. Also resellers ain't getting greedy, ME is going down and Nexus going up they have to adapt as always.

Do you think the buyers are being stubborn and trying to maximise their profits although the mind essence price remains level?

There is no longer going to be an over supply of sweat since the server border exploit is gone too.

Post what you think is reasonable. I would say 8ped/k minimum.

If you want to pay 8PED/K do it. Buy all sweat on the market at 8 PED so everyone else has to pay at least the same but I guess you're not a buyer like everyone complaining. Try 'Reselling' in terms of buying Sweat/Nexus and sell ME for a week or two and then talk about profit and greed. The problem is most of the sweaters are just too greedy.

 

[thoreau]

OK, I'm going to open this can of worms. I've not said anything about it, but here goes.

Zane, what you are talking about is illegal in many countries.

You cannot price 'fix' sweat because you can always sweat yourself.

 

[thoreau]

I am a Mindforce user. Mind Essence is my 'ammo.'

Hunters do not pay a markup for their ammo. Mindforce users do.

As a result, I must try to minimize the cost of my ammo in an attempt to break even.

So for me, the 'reasonable' price for sweat is as low as possible. My calculations put a reasonable price for sweat around 2.5 PED per thousand.

This is usually the place where new players cry 'who would sweat for that small amount?' The answer is I don't know and I really don't care much. We all have choices to make. You can choose to sweat or you can choose not to.

Sweaters have the easiest life in Entropia. They never lose money. NEVER. They get skills without having to pay a single pec for ammo or bombs. They get to stand around in giant groups and chat and laugh and earn PEDs. They never worry about decay or drop rates.

And they want higher prices? There is a welfare analogy here somewhere.

 

[Lugzan]

I really do not know, how much is "fair" price... I mean, I only use ME to tp and I would not mind paying double for it but I can not imagine using ME at even current price for other mindforce activities as there is no eco way in it.

can someone explain me, why MA can not implement more interesting actions to get the ME? I mean, we have people here willing to uses loads of ME daily and MA promised to improve mindforce area a lot. wouldn't it be logical to get more people to work for producing enough of it?

dunno, make it shooting like action or mining or both, for Lykke's sake puzzles or something =)


J.

 

[BinaryMan]

This is based off approximate values from current/past market data (peauction.com). I am assuming ME=180% and NEX=120%. The street value of sweat (without AH fees) is about 0.57 PEC or 5.7 PED/1000 (k). When AH fees are included, the price drops to ~4.8 PED/k at most (this applies to huge volume orders). A 1k AH order is only ~4.3 PED/k. However, a 2-3k order yields ~4.5-4.6 PED/k. Therefore, 5.0 PED/k is actually a reasonable price for street vendors to offer. Note we are in an inflated price period relative to the prior year (due to recent changes in sweat collection, a new equilibrium may occur, but I think it will drop to around historical levels, maybe slightly higher). It is interesting that ME prices often fall even when NEX prices rise, meaning that sweat prices are squeezed lower (being the "free" component to gather, the supply is more flexible than NEX). If things return to what they were, we are looking at about ME=160% and NEX=120% on average as more conservative figures. This results in 3.7 PED/k street value. We would expect > 4.0 PED/k most of the time as a long-term value (assuming you are stockpiling and forward-looking). If additional MF are added to the game, we may expect a large increase in the ME price and sweat as a result. I believe it is better to convert [sweat + NEX --> ME] when you can buy/sell around market prices (particularly without AH fees) and have a quick turnaround; sweaters who can do this earn a slightly higher margin for the added "service".

		PEC/item
ME		1.8
NEX		1.2
Decay		0.032
SWEAT		0.568

amount		1000
fixed AH	0.05
var AH		0.09

net (1k)	0.428
max (high vol)	0.478
street		0.568


ME Range: 145%-200% (year)
NEX Range: 105%-140% (year)
ME > NEX (always)

* Note I am assuming a 0.50 PEC + 5% commission fee. I found out later this is not the formula but I think it's close enough for the general analysis.

 

[addz]

Until they bring the full mindforce funtionality back into the game i think we are going to see a severe oversupply and the sweat prce will continue to fall. Teleporting doesnt really use that much sweat overall, its the repeated use from people skilling mindforce with attacking and healing chips that uses more mind essence.

The thing is by the time the full mindforce functinality is brought back into the game the dammage might already be done. The price will be lowered and desperate sweaters will be selling for whatever they can get. Despite the changes, the days of 3.5 sweat price may unfortunately not be over

Then again, this is all just speculation. We will have to wait and see what actually happens.

 

[Pepto]

Leave sweat at it's invariably increasing price. It will probably stabilize somewhere bwteen 0.8-1.0.

This has already and will push the MU on ME up, true.

All MA have to do is halve the ME requirement for all chips to rebalance the system.

FN hits don't cost MA?
Sweat doesn't cost MA?
Refining ME doesn't cost MA?
Selling ME doesn't cost MA?
Using ME in your chip doesn't cost MA?

All the decay is still occuring, I'm pretty sure MA won't lose out on this?

Disclaimer: This is an opinion, I did not claim it as fact

 

[davidgr1200]

I like teh new system as it makes it a lot easier to "casual sweat". So when I go hunting I often sweat a little first when I see a new mob. Gives my health a chance to increase and may even give me some sweat. That way I can make my own ME when I need it without having to sweat for hours on end. The price of sweat does not interest me unless it goes up sufficiently for it to be worth my while sweating instead of depositing. Say around 10 pec per bottle.

 

[Trivan]

I like teh new system as it makes it a lot easier to "casual sweat". So when I go hunting I often sweat a little first when I see a new mob. Gives my health a chance to increase and may even give me some sweat. That way I can make my own ME when I need it without having to sweat for hours on end. The price of sweat does not interest me unless it goes up sufficiently for it to be worth my while sweating instead of depositing. Say around 10 pec per bottle.

10pec per bottle is unreasonable i think you need to understand it from a different point of view.

http://www.mytwopecs.com/thepriceofsweat.php

6ped per 1k is the correct amount.

 

[Peatie]

10pec per bottle is unreasonable i think you need to understand it from a different point of view.

http://www.mytwopecs.com/thepriceofsweat.php

6ped per 1k is the correct amount.

Ignoring the fact that there is no "correct" price for sweat for a second, I believe you meant 6ped per 2k.

 

[Trivan]

Ignoring the fact that there is no "correct" price for sweat for a second, I believe you meant 6ped per 2k.

Sorry I should of made that clearer. I believe 6ped in my opinion is the fair divide between the sweater, and the consumer. Im not going to charge 10ped per 1k, but at the same time I am not selling for less than 6.

 

[Peatie]

Sorry I should of made that clearer. I believe 6ped in my opinion is the fair divide between the sweater, and the consumer. Im not going to charge 10ped per 1k, but at the same time I am not selling for less than 6.

As primarily a hunter I'd love to have a fair divide between the hunters and the consumers. I expect most miners and crafters feel the same way, but at the end of the day it is the market that will decide what the correct price is.

 

[Trivan]

I tend to agree...but I don't let the market set my price. If anyone wants sweat from me it will always be a steady 6ped. So take note...my price doesnt change with the market.


I just invested some loyalty to gain some loyalty.