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Are TT returns influenced under skill pill use?

John uncguy43 Williams

John uncguy43 Williams

Guardian
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Posts
287
Had a thought, and wanted to see if any members of the community had any hard data to share.

Do TT returns decrease while utilizing skill pills? The idea here is that skill gains represent a form of TT return that gets the player up to 100% return. In my opinion, I believe that's why a player gains more skills early - they have to be given more skills by MA for MA to argue to regulators that the game isn't gambling. Then, as your looter skills improve and your TT returns improve, less skills are "given" as a consequence since less is needed to "equalize 100%". Skill gains decrease exponentially relative to TT amount spent over time.

So, if skill gain is a function of TT return equalling up to 100%, does using skill pills (which increases TT skill returns for same ped spent) decrease loot returns?

Pretty sure this has probably been addressed before by Zho or maybe Yazuki in his log, but couldn't find it so putting this here. Let the name-calling begin for a simple question :ROFLMAO:
 
This is a commonly misunderstood concept. You are actually not given TT by MA when you skill. Even though everyone, and even MA themselves very confusingly call it TT amount of skill for a mission reward or whatever, it does not actually have a TT value until you put it on an ESI. The only TT Mindark is "giving away" in a sense is the total TT amount of ESI available in the universe, which they regulate.

So there is no reason at all why loot should be lower when using skill pills.
 
UnaAlconbury said:
This is a commonly misunderstood concept. You are actually not given TT by MA when you skill. Even though everyone, and even MA themselves very confusingly call it TT amount of skill for a mission reward or whatever, it does not actually have a TT value until you put it on an ESI. The only TT Mindark is "giving away" in a sense is the total TT amount of ESI available in the universe, which they regulate.

So there is no reason at all why loot should be lower when using skill pills.
Click to expand...
Prove this please
 
Skill Rewards Make Your Avatar Stronger!
In Entropia your Avatar skills has a PED (Project Entropia Dollar) value. Mission rewards, displayed as PED:s and when given calculated into points depending on your previous skill gains, is a crucial part for your progression in Entropa Universe

www.entropiauniverse.com

Entropia Universe - Skill Rewards

In Entropia your Avatar skills has a PED (Project Entropia Dollar) value. Mission rewards, displayed as PED:s and when given calculated into points de
www.entropiauniverse.com


Skill Rewards Make Your Avatar Stronger!
In Entropia your Avatar skills has a PED (Project Entropia Dollar) value.

From my understanding skills got a ped value. Note the " . "

Mission rewards , displayed as PEDs and when given calculated into points depending on ,your previous skill gains,...

Now they talk about how the value ped get calculated into points
 
always bad observations spread fast af, its like with the perception =))


125% skill gain on flesh >
98,42%​

I can add it was decent loot period with a max loot of 2k (not spamming ubers)
 
5$ ask him :) he is running a test for it :) well was..
 
PreyNaika said:
Prove this please
Click to expand...
Not sure why you would need proof of this to be perfectly honest. The fact is there, no matter how MA chose to phrase it, you do need to use ESI TT to make a skill have a tradeable value, right?

Before that point, Mindark hasn't actually given anything except an equivalent of TT or a possibility of turning it (actually not even 100% of it since you lose some when chipping out) into TT, by burning ESI TT.

But if you insist; I just double checked with my soc mate @miathan and tests have been run using the same method which looks at loot distribution explained and used by @Jhereg and @miathan in (link). It looks exactly the same with and without skill pills, fyi. No visible "penalty" from using skill pills.
 
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UnaAlconbury said:
Not sure why you would need proof of this to be perfectly honest. The fact is there, no matter how MA chose to phrase it, you do need to use ESI TT to make a skill have a tradeable value, right?

Before that point, Mindark hasn't actually given anything except an equivalent of TT or a possibility of turning it (actually not even 100% of it since you lose some when chipping out) into TT, by burning ESI TT.

But if you insist; I just double checked with my soc mate @miathan and tests have been run using the same method which looks at loot distribution explained and used by @Jhereg and @miathan in (link). It looks exactly the same with and without loot pills, fyi. No visible "penalty" from using skill pills.
Click to expand...
If you say so 🤷
Wuld be helpfull if mindark gives a official answer , everything else is speculation
 
Come on. “Invest in your avatar”.

Means skills.

If they don’t take more from your TT I am quitting because that’s terrible business.
 
PreyNaika said:
If you say so 🤷
Wuld be helpfull if mindark gives a official answer , everything else is speculation
Click to expand...
That you need to burn ESI TT to assign your skills a tradeable TT value is not speculation, it is a fact.

Your account TT value does not go up from gaining skills. You add TT value to your account by buying (or looting) an ESI, then you can convert skills onto that TT value. You never get a TT value of skills from skilling or from mission rewards, you get an amount of skills that can be assigned onto a certain amount of ESI TT later on. I really have no idea how to put this in a simpler way.

The dynamics of the skill system is probably the most misunderstood concept in here. Understandable though with MA's rather confusing way of phrasing it in general. But I guess it's also an attempt to simplify the info from their end.
 
I think Una is correct here.

Would it be less confusing if mission/codex rewards said "20 PED XY skill implant" instead of "20 PED XY skill"? Because that's how it works. It's the implant that gives a skill its TT value, a certain amount of skill points is just a number by itself.

When you acquire skills the chat reads "You have gained 0.0001 experience in XY skill". The amount is measured in skill points (not TT value) and Mindark even tells you it's just "experience" (again, not TT value).

So I don't think a skill bonus implies lower return, that would make no sense. And unless I'm going senile and imagining things I could swear some players already tested this (Fivedolla and Zho probably).
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
I think Una is correct here.

Would it be less confusing if mission/codex rewards said "20 PED XY skill implant" instead of "20 PED XY skill"?
Click to expand...
That is not quite accurate either, it would have to say "XY skill that later can be converted into 20 PED XY skill implant by sacrificing 20/0.9 PED Empty skill implant" :D

(20/0.9 representing the 10% loss when chipping out)

Hence why it is understandable that Mindark feel they need to simplify how they phrase it, I suppose.
 
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UnaAlconbury said:
That is not quite accurate either, it would have to say "XY skill that later can be converted into 20 PED XY skill implant by sacrificing 20*1.1 PED Empty skill implant" :D

(*1.1 representing the 10% loss when chipping out)
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I think I would need to consult my lawyer before attempting to read that.

See ya in court Una :smash:
 
robber said:
5$ ask him :) he is running a test for it :) well was..
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Still testing.

Like I've said, I'll never use a skill pill again. I've seen enough. The discussion of skills not having tt value is true, only on the surface. Skills have a ped value and it has to come from somewhere. Mindark only restricted you removing it through ESIs that match the value you extract. That way they have some tangible value. You get hundreds and hundreds of ped of skill per day (1.5 to 3% of your turnover). It would be foolish for them to let you just sell it to TT and get that money back.

Posting returns of flesh rippers along with skill gain values isn't relevant. We have no idea how much your avatar was owed or not owed. (Notice you didn't also say you got 91% tt one month).

I won't say definitively one way or another until a couple more months.
 
ProActive Mango said:
Invest does not always means profit ;)
Click to expand...

Yap because you still pull the strings. Buying efficient item and using on on lands, kerb, atrox, ambulimax and few other crap creatures for sure wont make you profitable :D
 
atomicstorm said:
Still testing.

Like I've said, I'll never use a skill pill again. I've seen enough. The discussion of skills not having tt value is true, only on the surface. Skills have a ped value and it has to come from somewhere. Mindark only restricted you removing it through ESIs that match the value you extract. That way they have some tangible value. You get hundreds and hundreds of ped of skill per day (1.5 to 3% of your turnover). It would be foolish for them to let you just sell it to TT and get that money back.

Posting returns of flesh rippers along with skill gain values isn't relevant. We have no idea how much your avatar was owed or not owed. (Notice you didn't also say you got 91% tt one month).

I won't say definitively one way or another until a couple more months.
Click to expand...

Even few months its not enough. There are period of multi and not. When i gave the example up i had good returns like 1,5-2 months (this period i used 75/125% skill bonus) then next month 91.6% (but here i cant complain since im lower on robot looter and 60k hp robots helped with the tt loss ) and its been 2 months now without any multis and any decent runs. I tell you what, use skill pill in a good period, nothing will change :))
 
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atomicstorm said:
The discussion of skills not having tt value is true, only on the surface. Skills have a ped value and it has to come from somewhere.
Click to expand...
That "ped value" comes from other players paying markup for it, after ESI TT has been used up to give it TT value. Mindark doesn't have to somehow compensate this further (by lowering tt return when using skill pills for example). It does not come from their pocket.

atomicstorm said:
You get hundreds and hundreds of ped of skill per day (1.5 to 3% of your turnover). It would be foolish for them to let you just sell it to TT and get that money back.
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But you can't. You can't sell it to TT and get the money back. You have to sacrifice ESI TT first.
 
There is no proof that skill pills affect TT returns directly, I myself observed this, and asked among friends, nobody ever noticed anything weird going on while under 100% skill increase pill for example vs when not.

It is extremely false information spread for reasons only known to people who spread them.
 
Sulje said:
There is no proof that skill pills affect TT returns directly
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Exactly. There are even tests suggesting that they don't affect TT returns directly, as I mentioned in post #9. Using same loot distribution method Zho used for his looter and efficiency studies.
 
Drugs are bad mkay?

The simple answer is that pills (any pills, not just skill pills) entice people to keep pushing bad loot where clean folks would've long ago logged off in disgust.
 
Imo we pay for skill in every single interaction we do, cost is linear for decay, ammo, skills and so on.
Just as with mining where we get NRF here and there but build up values for payout, its similar in
skillgain we get no gain in skills here and there but in time it will come.

I don't think skillpills change the value but instead the frequenzy of payouts.
 
I am using skill pills every day since i bought a big "cheap" pack from the auctions, never noticed anything out of the ordinary...

But i did notice i am having more globals when i am playing on a drip of beer :drink:
(no data to prove it though... :flip:)


Large.
 
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Loot cycles are much bigger than 30 days. It's so hard for some people to accept the fact that month to month loot will be different that they come up with the craziest shit just so they can feed their denial and allow them to play the victim and no amount of tests and data will change their beliefs. Don't fall in this trap, guys.
My experience with the skill pills was on the other side, my returns were above my overall average and sometimes even tt profit but I still don't think there's a connection.
 
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