Info: Calypso Land Deed ROI tracker

[Sidney]

more it goes more it s going down ... shouldn't be better with time instead worse ? whats happening here? perhaps MA can give some info. ppl are still ingame but on another planet or just on another game ? how are your friend list ?

Deeds are virtual shares si as in real life you will get ups and downs
Normaly said the buying price of deeds should be going down aswell ... but that seems to be the only difference inside the game and real life, here they're going up and up .

Wierd that is....

 

[Gewitter]

Deeds are only for Calypso and its turnover.
But too many players from my society now live on Arkadia.
Too many from friendly society - on Rock.
So all turnover from these planets are not for CLD.

And I do not understand why the price for CLD increases?
There is no reason for this.
3-4 PED per week (when you paid 1500 PED or more) - is ridiculous

 

[Cerberis]

Deeds are only for Calypso and its turnover.

And I do not understand why the price for CLD increases?
There is no reason for this.
3-4 PED per week (when you paid 1500 PED or more) - is ridiculous

12.5% return a year is low? Show me better way

Btw, i think that Calypso born avatar hunting at other planets add some pec to CLDs too

 

[Tepes]

12.5% return a year is low? Show me better way

Stock market (the one in real world)... shark loans... all kind of legal or border-line legal high-risk high-return activities.

You risk losing everything you say? True, but also paying 150 USD for a virtual pec in a game which is in red for several years is a risky enterprise.

I remember people were talking about mortgaging their house to get CLD's and until now the price (and not the returns) is making the early buyers happy. I did not expect them to raise so much, in fact I was on opinion that in 1 year CLDs will bring the game down.

Is all about timing, or how somebody put it last week, don't get caught holding the bag.

 

[Gewitter]

12.5% return a year is low? Show me better way

Btw, i think that Calypso born avatar hunting at other planets add some pec to CLDs too

12.5% return is a standard return in our country in official banks.
- No comissions or taxes
- No risk
- All insured

If you are about game - then shop is more profitable (300-500 PED per month for 25k invested (~16 CLD)). The only difference is that you must slightly work

 

[remontoire]

12.5% return is a standard return in our country in official banks.
- No comissions or taxes
- No risk
- All insured

If you are about game - then shop is more profitable (300-500 PED per month for 25k invested (~16 CLD)). The only difference is that you must slightly work

But having it all in roubles is at least equvalent risk to having it all in peds.

 

[whiteknut]

12.5% return is a standard return in our country in official banks.
- No comissions or taxes
- No risk
- All insured

If you are about game - then shop is more profitable (300-500 PED per month for 25k invested (~16 CLD)). The only difference is that you must slightly work

Take into consideration that USD/RUB exchange rate is working against your 12.5% investment(almost 10% lost for you by currency rate this year).. So CLDs are indeed better choice..

 

[Gewitter]

But having it all in roubles is at least equvalent risk to having it all in peds.

No, I do not think so
In case of problems with the rubles (by the way, Russia's economy is now more stable than economy in Europe and the U.S.), I can recieve something back, all is insured. In case there are problems with the MA company - I can not return anything. MA can not give such guarantees, which gives banks in Russia
And you forgot about 3.5% to depo + 3.5% for withdraw (1552 PED you invested for 1 CLD (1500 PED price), if you withdraw 187,5 PED's after one year, you recieve back only $18,09, equivalent in % = 11,65%). And here is also 10$ for your withdraw operation (from 2,5% to 5% if you holder of 20-10 CLD)

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

CLDs are still lucrative investment, even at their current price and current payout. You either understand it or not.
Payout will go up again after certain issues will get addressed (crafting low success rate, strangely low hunting returns etc), hopefully next week's VU.

Some people continuously cry that CLDs cost too much... my bet is that they wish to buy more. Otherwise why they would be so vocal and try to convince everybody?
Simple:
- you are not interested in investing - price should not bother you
- you want to invest - you want to buy as cheap as possible.

Please stop trying to talk everybody into selling CLDs at lower prices, we see your agenda.

 

[Gewitter]

Please stop trying to talk everybody into selling CLDs at lower prices, we see your agenda.

I have no CLD. I dont plan buy CLD. I sold all my looted CLD.
My only goal - is to show the real %, especially for the owners of a small number of CLD
Не в деньгах счастье, а в их количестве

 

[ermik]

Some people continuously cry that CLDs cost too much... my bet is that they wish to buy more. Otherwise why they would be so vocal and try to convince everybody?
Simple:
- you are not interested in investing - price should not bother you
- you want to invest - you want to buy as cheap as possible.

Please stop trying to talk everybody into selling CLDs at lower prices, we see your agenda.

In pyramid scheme circles ( or cults if you may call them that ) its very common that voices from people outside of the circle who speak critics are shut down with the same arguments you use, like the sceptic people have not realised how great this is, or they just have a hidden agenda cause deep down ofclurse they want to be a part of this wonderful thing.

Sure i have no issues with someone buying 5 cld´s instead of a ml35 to survive on a low depo budget, but if my voice of critisism can stop one guy from depositing money he actually cares for, based on the haussers promises about the future earnings in cld´s, then its all worth it.

Besides, maybe the most important question of all.

If you are so confident in the great return from CLD´s, and many of you claim you will never ever sell them, why on earth do you care about the price of a CLD?

If you intend to keep them forever, price could drop to 50 ped each and it would not hurt you, so whats really bothering you?, whats your agenda?

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

I have no CLD. I dont plan buy CLD. I sold all my looted CLD.
My only goal - is to show the real %, especially for the owners of a small number of CLD
Не в деньгах счастье, а в их количестве

I do not think that there are many people who spend money without understanding benefits and risks of their investment. And if they do, this mean that they have enough money to flush them in toilet.

In pyramid scheme circles ( or cults if you may call them that ) its very common that voices from people outside of the circle who speak critics are shut down with the same arguments you use, like the sceptic people have not realised how great this is, or they just have a hidden agenda cause deep down ofclurse they want to be a part of this wonderful thing.

do you refer to EU as pyramid scheme or cult?

Sure i have no issues with someone buying 5 cld´s instead of a ml35 to survive on a low depo budget, but if my voice of critisism can stop one guy from depositing money he actually cares for, based on the haussers promises about the future earnings in cld´s, then its all worth it.

Besides, maybe the most important question of all.

If you are so confident in the great return from CLD´s, and many of you claim you will never ever sell them, why on earth do you care about the price of a CLD?

If you intend to keep them forever, price could drop to 50 ped each and it would not hurt you, so whats really bothering you?, whats your agenda?

It does not really matter if you intend to keep investment long or short term. There is always possibility of need to sell prematurely, for whatever reason it might be.

Imagine that you have that ML-35 and intend to keep it forever. Then you have accident IRL and need to cashout. Would you be happy if it's price went down to 10 PED while you paid for it 10k PED ? I assume that no. Am I wrong?

 

[Acro]

I do not think that there are many people who spend money without understanding benefits and risks of their investment. And if they do, this mean that they have enough money to flush them in toilet.
...

Ohh my frigging god. This must be the most naïve and most noobish statement I have read on this forum in a very, very long time

Have ever opened literature about investments, have you ever went to an investmentforum, have you ever heard some people tell their life tales?
Over 90% of the people on this planet that where brave enough to invest in anything at all DO NOT understand the benifits and risks their investment have. Many of them even confuse speculating with investing.

everyone that believes the following saying is true, doesn't understand:
"my home is my (biggest) investment"

really, I wouldn't normally comment on this; but you made just the biggest noobish statement anyone could ever be making in the world of finance.
This quote alone drops your credibility to ground zero.

I have to ask, you really meant this as a joke, did you? anyway, may I use it to point at how clueless people really can be when it comes to investing?

But really, you just made my day; thank you very much for this

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Ohh my frigging god. This must be the most naïve and most noobish statement I have read on this forum in a very, very long time

[...]

But really, you just made my day; thank you very much for this

It is obvious you do not understand what I meant, yet I'm glad this made your dull day a bit brighter

 

[chronos]

Maybe its just me, but i have seen the trend of bad loot/returns several times just before a VU (or at the end of an event aswell - where many have tried their luck and lost quite much in hard effort to find something good). Then the day(s) after the VU was released - Blammo - many feels its much better again. Some even scores xxxx/xxxxx digit HOF's from some new additions that came with the VU that spurs the playerbase into play more again

Anywho, i think this discussion is spiraling into its own forum thread

 

[jetsina]

I have to ask, you really meant this as a joke, did you? anyway, may I use it to point at how clueless people really can be when it comes to investing?

I've not come across this line of argument before. Because you believe there are lots of clueless people, you wish to use someone who writes he does not believe this as being proof of how many there really are?

Anyway, my expectation was of a low payout this week - lots of factors all coming together. I expect the payout to rise again, but the main thing is: by how much will it rise? I am a bit pessimistic if I compare the figures on an annual progression basis, but I'm not worried as such. I expect 1500 will hold as a price if the payouts pick up a bit over the autumn and winter.

 

[Futurama]

Ohh my frigging god. This must be the most naïve and most noobish statement I have read on this forum in a very, very long time

Have ever opened literature about investments, have you ever went to an investmentforum, have you ever heard some people tell their life tales?
Over 90% of the people on this planet that where brave enough to invest in anything at all DO NOT understand the benifits and risks their investment have. Many of them even confuse speculating with investing.

everyone that believes the following saying is true, doesn't understand:
"my home is my (biggest) investment"

really, I wouldn't normally comment on this; but you made just the biggest noobish statement anyone could ever be making in the world of finance.
This quote alone drops your credibility to ground zero.

I have to ask, you really meant this as a joke, did you? anyway, may I use it to point at how clueless people really can be when it comes to investing?

But really, you just made my day; thank you very much for this

Indeed, I agree with this totally. Most people do not understand (fully) the risks. Yes, people may know that theoretically they can lose everything, but that doesn't really mean that they fully understand it. Most of people will be like: "Not going to happen with me". Also, you cannot fully understand the risks unless you have lost a lot, declared a private/enterprise bankruptcy, had his property taken away etc.

Same goes about studying - how can you understand the risks, if you haven't even calculated some simple textbook problems, haven't learned statistics, econometrics etc.

 

[Gewitter]

It's not even the fact that not everyone understands the risk.
And the fact that investing in a volume of up to 10 CLD - this is a mistake.
For first year of holding of CLD your ROI will be very low!!!

Calculating ROI for first year:

For 10 CLD:

$1554 to buy

15000 PED in CLD as a result (-$54 for transfer)

$216 USD ($0,40x10CLD X 54 weeks) - your ROI, if you recieve 40 PED per week (for year)

So, $10 to withdraw your %

$216-$10=$206

And 3.5% comission for bank transfer again:

$206-3,5%=$198,79

$198,79-$54,0 (comission to buy (difference between 1554 and 1500 ingame)) = $144,79

$144,79/1554*100 = 9,32% for first year!

For 5 CLD:

$777 to buy

7500 ingame - 5 CLD

$108 - your ROI for year

$10 - withdraw

$98-3,5%=$94,57

-$27,0 (comission to buy) = $67,57

67,57/777*100 = 8,7% for first year!

For 3 CLD:

$463,2 to buy

4500 PED ingame - 3 CLD

$64,8 - your ROI for year

$10 - withdraw

$54,8 - 3,5% = $52,88

$52,88-$13,2 (comission to buy) = 39,68

39,68/463,2*100 = 8,56% for first year!!!

If price will rise more than 1500 PED - your real ROI will be same as bank deposit for US Dollars!

Yes, for the second year % of return will be higher, but no one considers the first year

 

[Uvas]

It's not even the fact that not everyone understands the risk.
And the fact that investing in a volume of up to 10 CLD - this is a mistake.
For first year of holding of CLD your ROI will be very low!!!

Calculating ROI for first year:

For 10 CLD:

$1554 to buy

15000 PED in CLD as a result (-$54 for transfer)

$216 USD - your ROI, if you recieve 40 PED per week (for year)

So, $10 to withdraw your %

$216-$10=$206

And 3.5% comission for bank transfer again:

$206-3,5%=$198,79

$198,79-$54,0 (comission to buy (difference between 1554 and 1500 ingame)) = $144,79

$144,79/1554*100 = 9,32% for first year!

For 5 CLD:

$777 to buy

7500 ingame - 5 CLD

$108 - your ROI for year

$10 - withdraw

$98-3,5%=$94,57

-$27,0 (comission to buy) = $67,57

67,57/777*100 = 8,7% for first year!

For 3 CLD:

$463,2 to buy

4500 PED ingame - 3 CLD

$64,8 - your ROI for year

$10 - withdraw

$54,8 - 3,5% = $52,88

$52,88-$13,2 (comission to buy) = 39,68

39,68/463,2*100 = 8,56% for first year!!!

If price will rise more than 1500 PED - your real ROI will be same as bank deposit for US Dollars!

Yes, for the second year % of return will be higher, but no one considers the first year

It is numbers like this, that caused me to stop buying CLD's a few months ago. Extremely poor return for such a high risk investment. Although, my returns are a bit better as I was only reinvesting ingame peds.

Time maybe to consider withdrawing payouts instead of reinvesting.

 

[Futurama]

It's not even the fact that not everyone understands the risk.
And the fact that investing in a volume of up to 10 CLD - this is a mistake.
For first year of holding of CLD your ROI will be very low!!!

Calculating ROI for first year:

....

Well, it will be better for Europeans (bank transfer deposits are way cheaper than 3.5%, unless you depo really small sums), but I see your point ofc.

 

[chronos]

Nice calculation gewitter! Good for investors
However seing this in a player perspective, one that wants to play for some time, its quite nice to have the extra ammo/bombs you get from the "tax". Or to better cover up the 10-30% activity loss. Ofc this is no new info, just wanted to give my insights

 

[Gewitter]

That's why I said that at the price above 1500 or more make any investment - this is madness. In my country also available a bank transfer. Maybe someone will tell me what is commission for it? I do not think that it's free

By the way, my interest for investing in the CLD was lost after they have crossed the mark of 1200 PED.

If you calculate real ROI by my simple formula, you recieve for 50 CLD (minimal for investment IMO):

$124,4 for one CLD (including 3,5% VISA depo) X 50 = $6220

ROI = ($0,4 X 50 X 54) = $1080

withdraw $1080-$10 = $1070

Comission $1070-3,5%= $1032,55

Subtract depo tax $1032,55 -$220 = $ 812,55

Calculating %: $812,55/$6220*100 = 13,06%

13% only for first year!

The one who paid only $103,5 (1000 PED) may rejoice

Real ROI for first year when MA start selling CLD was only 16,56% (when you bought 50 CLD)

For second and each next year - 19,94%

PS All % was calculated for 4 PED each week payment!!!

PPS All what we are seeing at AH now - just speculation

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

It's not even the fact that not everyone understands the risk.
And the fact that investing in a volume of up to 10 CLD - this is a mistake.
For first year of holding of CLD your ROI will be very low!!!

First of your mistake is to make assumption that everybody who will buy CLD will want to withdraw it's revenue.
In fact, majority of people I know who have CLDs do not intend to withdraw revenue but rather use it for playing.

You should calculate how much you gonna save if you will not deposit that $16 every month!

$216 USD ($0,40x10CLD X 54 weeks) - your ROI, if you recieve 40 PED per week (for year)

Secondly, average revenue for CLD in 2012 was 4.695 PED, in 2013 it is so far 4.407 but year is not finished. Therefore your results are off by minimum 10%.

I did not verify your numbers and calculations in regards to withdrawal, because it is not relevant from my point of view - I use my revenue to not deposit, therefore saving extra by avoiding deposit fees.

 

[Acro]

My last statement I'm going to make in this economics section is the following:

let Teiwaz Storm and everyone else make their ROI statements and look at them again in Januari 2015, around the 20th of that month or something.
Let me then quote all your quotes in a thread and you give feedback if you still stand after what you are saying today. With this I don't mean that it has to be a still valid statement at that time; but it had to be a valid statement for NOW; seen in retrospect.

Reason I say this, and I will make that thread is to show you how hard it is to judge something when it is happening. In retrospect (hindsight) you will see that the statements you made in the past will have been faulty. Some of you will say you didn't knew some information. But if you don't, then stop pretending you know and making bold statements like "everyone knows the risks and..."

I will review my statements too on this. And yes, even if I was completely wrong I will still make this thread. In the end it doesn't matter who will have been right or wrong; in the end it will only matter who learned the message and moved on, and those who didn't and will make the same mistake over and over again.

And for the people asking; no, 15 months is NOT a long time. And yes, there is a reason I chose that specific month.

Regards,
Acronoid

 

[aridash]

... stop pretending you know and making bold statements like "everyone knows the risks and..."

[...]

And for the people asking; no, 15 months is NOT a long time. And yes, there is a reason I chose that specific date.

oh the irony. you cant know something is going to happen on 20th Jan 2015, even if you think something is planned for that date, its far too far away to be certain of.

 

[Gewitter]

2 Teiwaz Storm:

First, 5-10% difference between my results and current state is not so actual, as you mean. 4 PED or 4.4 PED, difference is 10%

9% + 10% = 9,9%

Second, 16 PED (160 PED) with my (and other people) turnover in KPED's per month is ->

Third, i dont need deposits or CLD revenue to play EU atm.

I think you have too many CLD, and you want to protect your invest.
This is correct, but do not count on much .... we cannot go against the numbers

Speculations cannot continue for a long time

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

2 Teiwaz Storm:

First, 5-10% difference between my results and current state is not so actual, as you mean. 4 PED or 4.4 PED, difference is 10%

9% + 10% = 9,9%

So you are the guy who want's to educate us about numbers, yet you think 10% mistake is nothing but laugh?

Second, 16 PED (160 PED) with my (and other people) turnover in KPED's per month is ->

You think that few k PED/month turnover is a lot?
Also you need to understand that turnover is something completely different that monthly deposit. But that's for another lesson.

If you didn't get it - this $16 /month deposit was just follow up from your example where you calculated revenue from 10 CLD.
While many people exceed that amount lost during month (do not confuse again with turnover), you would be surprised how many can survive with it.


This thread goes way off-topic, therefore this is gonna be my last post here. If you wanna continue discussion, create another thread and let me know or send me PM.
Let's not pollute ROI topic with our predictions and assumptions.

 

[Gewitter]

Ok

I felt sorry for you, I planned not show the whole horrible picture

As you know, MA was announced 24-30% revenue.

I will consider investment funds for 1 year at 100 СLD, with the withdraw of all the money entirely at the end of the investment period.

4.54 average revenue for full period (as you say!!!).

$15540 to buy 100 CLD for current price 1500 PED

Ingame 150000 PED. (Difference $540)

Revenue $0,454 X 100 CLD X 54 Week = $2451,6

$15000 (ingame) + $2451,6 (ROI) = $17451,6 (end of year PED Card balance)

Withdraw $17451,6 - $10 = $17441,6

Substract comission to withdraw $17441,6 - 3,5% = $16831,14
(this comission will be always, you cannot decrease it)

Calculating ROI (including all comissions):

Invested : $15540
Recieved back: $16831,14

Difference - $1291,14

ROI = $1291,14 / $15540 X 100 = 8,3%

U.S. inflation in 2013 is close to 2%

Real ROI is 8,1%

As you see, nothing values closed to promised ROI, because the price of CLD is 1500 PED.
Together with the fact that there is no protection of investments (force majeure return = $0), it's horrible.
With such ROI and guaranties, CLD can not be seen as a tool of investment.
In the beginning of sales you can only protect your savings in a game.

CLD - speculating pyramidal tool (it has become so thanks to the players, not MA), and those who buy their last - have a risk not return the investment

And you, Teiwaz Storm, can invest in CLD if you want

PS Im sorry, i made a mistake in first version, now all is corrected!

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Ok

I felt sorry for you, I planned not show the whole horrible picture

Ingame 150000 PED. (Difference $540)

No, it's me who feel sorry for you if you pay such banking fees .... but don't make yet another false assumption that everybody pay it. On top of making yet again assumption that all buyers of CLDs want to withdraw instead of using PED ingame!

So yeah, you flush $520 in a toilet because you do not have a clue how to deposit.
Yet you keep babbling how educated you are about investing...... seen such overconfidence many times.... nothing good out of it.

Now on topic.

As you know, MA was announced 24-30% revenue.

Real ROI is 8,1%

As you see, nothing values closed to promised ROI, because the price of CLD is 1500 PED.

You clearly do not understand what MA promised, yet you bash them for not keeping that promise. Quite immature behaviour.
When MA announced CLDs sale, their estimation of ROI was based on nominal price - 1k PED /CLD.
On secondary market, with higher prices, ROI will be obviously lower than on initial offer. Second grade math kid would understand it.

ATM ROI is ~24% (based on initial offer), so I do not see any problem with what was estimated 'promise'.

If you calculate ROI for current second market price, and do it correctly!, it is still appealing for many investors. Current price is clearly regulated by market itself (surely you heard term "supply and demand"... I hope).

So stop you a little bit with your 'mission' to educate us please, let me 'waste' my money as I please

PS Im sorry, i made a mistake in first version, now all is corrected!

Apologies accepted, unfortunately second time it's still not so correct as you would like to believe it.
For starter your deposit fee was enormous, almost half of your revenue.....
Friendly advice - maybe you should stay away from investing.
Definitely DO NOT try to school others about investments, as you lack a bit of understanding yourself.

 

[Gewitter]

Friendly advice - maybe you should stay away from investing.
Definitely DO NOT try to school others about investments, as you lack a bit of understanding yourself.

Too many bla-bla-bla... where your calculations? Without calculations your bla-bla-bla cost nothing

By the way, if you are not going to withdraw money, it is not investing, but only donate