Calypso Land Deeds will be migrated to the Entropia Exchange

[In Love With]

Can we just clarify that 1/100 of a cld has NOT the same payout vs. an ARK underground deed please ...

That said, I do expect them to trade higher vs. a cld as well, simply because ppl can get smaller installments and can have smaller investments, so they have become more available ... am glad I stocked up on them a lot last year

 

[Sheryo]

We know why that is the case though and MA does nothing about it. 6% ROI on AUD is 45 ped.

True, means if AUDs end up to the exchange center, the price of AUDs could drop to 45-50 peds ? But the CLDs should be more expensive that those then as there will always have more activity on Calypso, more events, maybe new content (in 10 years?). So AUDs at 40-50 peds and CLDTs at 50-60 peds ?

 

[Yquem]

True, means if AUDs end up to the exchange center, the price of AUDs could drop to 45-50 peds ? But the CLDs should be more expensive that those then as there will always have more activity on Calypso, more events, maybe new content (in 10 years?). So AUDs at 40-50 peds and CLDTs at 50-60 peds ?

<---- running to auction to sell my AUD

 

[Sheryo]

<---- running to auction to sell my AUD

Don't, that's just speculations =) But with time, prices should balance I believe.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

True, means if AUDs end up to the exchange center, the price of AUDs could drop to 45-50 peds ? But the CLDs should be more expensive that those then as there will always have more activity on Calypso, more events, maybe new content (in 10 years?). So AUDs at 40-50 peds and CLDTs at 50-60 peds ?

Well I believe Mindark said that 93.8% of cycling is done on calypso. To give some perspective lol

 

[In Love With]

True, means if AUDs end up to the exchange center, the price of AUDs could drop to 45-50 peds ? But the CLDs should be more expensive that those then as there will always have more activity on Calypso, more events, maybe new content (in 10 years?). So AUDs at 40-50 peds and CLDTs at 50-60 peds ?

You obviously try to move the market into a direction you like ... AUD payout is HIGHER vs. 1/100 of a CLD share by quite a bit and there is about 1% difference of ROI on them, so NO, as long as ppl can do math, CLDs will not be equal or close to equal with AUD ... sorry to burst that bubble

 

[Yquem]

BTW the history graf is much better in Exchange than in Auction

 

[SoberPhil]

And to think that some players panic-selled their deeds for like 2k each to orders before the move. That's how these hustlers make PED, from people's stupidity.

 

[jetsina]

The average payout from CLDs over the last 3 months of their existence was pretty darn good, with this TWEN year maybe continuing higher turnovers and maybe not. People are for now spread out again, with payouts returning to normalish for the off-Caly deeds/shares.
I think there is a reasonable expectation of payouts from CLDFs of 4 or 5 pecs a week at the moment, that would justify prices over 30 peds null problemo. We'll see in the short term how low people will sell for - and yeah, it's strange only seeing the sellers' volumes, but not willing buyers' bidding.

 

[Yquem]

it's strange only seeing the sellers' volumes, but not willing buyers' bidding.

Yes, if you are in a need for cash you can't place a decent sell order to a decent buy order. You just have to lowbid and hope some take it and no other will go below you.....

 

[Sheryo]

You obviously try to move the market into a direction you like ... AUD payout is HIGHER vs. 1/100 of a CLD share by quite a bit and there is about 1% difference of ROI on them, so NO, as long as ppl can do math, CLDs will not be equal or close to equal with AUD ... sorry to burst that bubble

Not really as I don't mind which way the price goes (I own both), and that's not because I assume something like this that the market will move to that direction, it has been a big change with the CLDs, we'll see what will happen.

Still no infos about the future plots by the way...

 

[Crabby]

On the flip side $18,000,000 has just been changed from a fundamental point of view in 3 days. (180,000,000 ped)

That is not a small amount of money for a videogames virtual land deed assets.

Yet you don't even come close to holding half of half of one percent of that entire number. There's little reason to complain about you losing something that wasn't even an integral feature to begin with. The thing itself still serves its intended purpose. Fact people wanted to use it as collateral is not MA's problem. You can use liquid PED as collateral, the most you are missing out on is a few ped every 3k you once held in a single deed every week. Which if we're being honest you were prolly gonna end up losing anyway.

The shares are easier to compound now. They are more accessible to the low deposit and free to play player base. They are more accessible to new players who may not think depositing $300 is appropriate for a game they are beginning to understand. All while everyone will likely be telling them "buy deeds". It wouldn't be a good look. Bad first impression imo.

By now I'm sure everyone, MA included, knows that Calypso picks up most of the slack when it comes to revenue. Zero secret there. They are upgrading to a new engine, expecting new people to play. It only makes fucking sense that they would want to give them the opportunity to invest in Calypso without the $300 all or nothing barrier. All while not taking anything from us existing holders, that was intended to begin with. Then we have the unreal shares, which are really small in today's terms, but shows MA's level of optimism with the game moving forward which I think is a good thing. With so much to look forward to I cant understand how some people obsess over the dumbest shit.

 

[Yquem]

Yet you don't even come close to holding half of half of one percent of that entire number. There's little reason to complain about you losing something that wasn't even an integral feature to begin with. The thing itself still serves its intended purpose. Fact people wanted to use it as collateral is not MA's problem. You can use liquid PED as collateral, the most you are missing out on is a few ped every 3k you once held in a single deed every week. Which if we're being honest you were prolly gonna end up losing anyway.

The shares are easier to compound now. They are more accessible to the low deposit and free to play player base. They are more accessible to new players who may not think depositing $300 is appropriate for a game they are beginning to understand. All while everyone will likely be telling them "buy deeds". It wouldn't be a good look. Bad first impression imo.

By now I'm sure everyone, MA included, knows that Calypso picks up most of the slack when it comes to revenue. Zero secret there. They are upgrading to a new engine, expecting new people to play. It only makes fucking sense that they would want to give them the opportunity to invest in Calypso without the $300 all or nothing barrier. All while not taking anything from us existing holders, that was intended to begin with. Then we have the unreal shares, which are really small in today's terms, but shows MA's level of optimism with the game moving forward which I think is a good thing. With so much to look forward to I cant understand how some people obsess over the dumbest shit.

Agreed on most of it. I really like the output from my old CLD's and looking forward to many more ppl now have the possibility to get some CLDT's

One thing I still think is tricky is when you are in the need for cash (ie 10k ped) now and here you just can't get it.
- You can't sell p2p
- You can't sell to a buy order
- The only thing you can is to place sell orders aggressively and by that push the whole marked

 

[Wixe]

If currently AUD is priced 90 PED+ (longterm average 5 PEC payout?) and CLDT 30+ PED (longterm averaging 4 PEC payout?), how come NTI is 9.5 PED (longterm averaging 1,5 PEC payout?) ?
Will they align longterm to reach about 6 % ROI each when every deed is on Exchange without P2P trade advantage? That would mean AUD go for more like 45 PED, CLDT 35 PED and NTI 13 PED if payouts stays the same.
Why do people refer here default point to AUD value. If AUD stays 90 PED then NTI should be valued like 30 PED already and CLDT 40.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

The shares are easier to compound now. They are more accessible to the low deposit and free to play player base. They are more accessible to new players who may not think depositing $300 is appropriate for a game they are beginning to understand. All while everyone will likely be telling them "buy deeds". It wouldn't be a good look. Bad first impression imo

I'm not disagreeing with most of this. I am only saying that it's pretty fucked when a company fundamentally changes how $18,000,000 worth of something works.

With a company that isn't worth billions, that's not right to give valuable customers only 3 days to get things sorted.


For comparison, if I sent out an email to you on Friday and told you all your money would be switched to a new bank "soon" and Monday morning you wake up to find there is no money in your normal bank account. Would you not freak out? And if you wouldn't you're a mother fucking liar.

 

[Bones]

Would you not freak out?

And if you wouldn't you're a mother fucking liar.

NOW i'm freaked out.

 

[Crabby]

I'm not disagreeing with most of this. I am only saying that it's pretty fucked when a company fundamentally changes how $18,000,000 worth of something works.

It is a share that gives dividends and can be traded. That is the fundamental purpose of it. As far as I can tell it works the same way it was intended to work to begin with. Now if you wanted to go ahead and use it for non-intended purposes then MA is not responsible for any inconvenience you may have as a result.

With a company that isn't worth billions, that's not right to give valuable customers only 3 days to get things sorted.

No one is gonna strike over this, no one is gonna quit over this. It is not as serious as you wanna make it seem. And that's coming from someone that liked it the way it was prior. This is not a decisive factor that a player's desire to keep playing EU will depend on, I promise you

For comparison, if I sent out an email to you on Friday and told you all your money would be switched to a new bank "soon" and Monday morning you wake up to find there is no money in your normal bank account. Would you not freak out? And if you wouldn't you're a mother fucking liar.

If you sent me out an email on friday telling me that, and monday i see theres no money in my bank account I would know why. If I didnt read the email it wouldnt take me long to figure it out on monday, because the email is sitting in my inbox. So again, theres no issue. Unless you are the type of person to realize everything is okay and STILL wanna throw a tantrum. However, I don't see how that directly relates to this. Did Mindark send your deeds over to another mmorpg? No.

You don't need to try and turn this into a moral issue. Its not, your problem is you wanted to squeeze out a few extra ped a week from resources you were using primarily as a form of collateral. And that is a problem that I can 100% understand, BUT again it wasn't intended for that. So you can't be mad at MA if you went about tryna milk it for more than they intended it to be used for. Why should they be holding back their decisions because you thought you were slick??? You aren't that significant homie. The world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone else.

I'm not a liar because you wanna be scandalous over an update thats already done with. Deal with that shit.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

You don't need to try and turn this into a moral issue. Its not, your problem is you wanted to squeeze out a few extra ped a week from resources you were using primarily as a form of collateral. And that is a problem that I can 100% understand

I never used CLDs as Collateral as I think Deeds are stupid to begin with. So good try again.

I guess I pray you don't own any companies I work with because your business ethics are fucking horrible with the way you and MindArk thinks. I'm not saying the sky is falling or anything. All I'm saying is that the way they went about this was pretty fucked up.

Am I not allowed to think that this is poor business practice? As this was strictly a "We can make more money putting them on the exchange" Move by Mindark. They didn't do this so it would "be easier" they didn't do this to help anyone. It was "We will make more from fees from the exchange than AH and P2P trades."

Which I think is fucked.

If they lowered the fees then I think the exchange is better than deeds not on the exchange.

I'm cool with your opinion, but I think fundamentally you're wrong that it isn't a big deal to do something to peoples money with such little warning.

 

[Crabby]

I never used CLDs as Collateral as I think Deeds are stupid to begin with. So good try again.

So you don't have reason to whine and yet here we are smh.

Am I not allowed to think that this is poor business practice? As this was strictly a "We can make more money putting them on the exchange" Move by Mindark. They didn't do this so it would "be easier" they didn't do this to help anyone. It was "We will make more from fees from the exchange than AH and P2P trades."

You're allowed to think what you want. It is a feature they put their own time and resources into developing, it works better, it provides far more useful information, I don't see anything wrong with them tryna make a little money off it.

Do you think it's fucked they gave their own players an opportunity to invest into their cash cow of a planet? Do you think it's fucked they offered players the opportunity to swap their compet deeds to moon deeds when compet went south? Is it also fucked they made the game more affordable partly as a result of them generating revenue from other avenues beside cycling?

But you wanna go on and on and on about something that aint a big deal AND has nothing to do with you. To me, thats fucked.

They did nothing to anyone's money. Plain and simple. They work as intended, and you can't seem to back up yourself up without mentioning that fact or any other beneficial aspect that update brought. You go off on these weird tangents that don't hold up when you put into account those things still have their intended purpose.

 

[Yquem]

NM

 

[AndrewViperAng]

I agree, the deeds will be at a more affordable price. I can't see them holding 30 ped value though.

One thing I like about the exchange, is it only allows purchases of the lowest value deeds first. So there's always sellers trying to undercut the last listed deeds. Funny stuff.

The system favours the buy side. Obviously at some point the buyer will become a seller too.

Assuming some players were holding CLD for collateral, I can foresee alot of sales coming. I wouldn't be surprised to see the deeds drop to 20 ped. Maybe even some panic selling, to hopefully buy back lower. Let the run commence.

MA might have a load of deeds to sell , who knows.

6m deeds though is ton of liquidity. I know alot of people are unhappy. But I'm quite excited about it. Call it... trading thrill maybe. It's fun.

Rick.

Hi mate good day. I forecast in Feb caly shares will surge to 65 peds each before June arrives, it is on the right direction now. Reason being simple, there is no barrier now, even a sweater newbie can buy caly shares, this is the main reason it will surge high, and lastly because it is still the best investment option in EU.
Have a good day, cheers~

 

[Wistrel]

Spotted this in game the other day. Was a little confused until I remembered vaguely seeing this thread. It seems to have been a good move. Not sure about the ins and out of how it impacts the land plot system (but you know... the land plot system... ,-) ) but the breaking things up into smaller chunks seems to have been good for liquidity.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

Spotted this in game the other day. Was a little confused until I remembered vaguely seeing this thread. It seems to have been a good move. Not sure about the ins and out of how it impacts the land plot system (but you know... the land plot system... ,-) ) but the breaking things up into smaller chunks seems to have been good for liquidity.

It removes players capability to store liquid value that is easily tradeable. You have to wait for someone to buy your shares if you want ped. + ma gets a cut on both ends, and removed free market functions, since you can only place sell orders and no buy orders half of the market forces are missing. Its sole purpose was to give mindark another form of taxation and to remove ped from the players hand and adds multiple steps to prevent them from selling and withdrawing. The psychology behind it will incentivize people to leave it in regardless of price. worst part is they did it so they can capture ped from players that need it most, those without substantial bankrolls. there were multiple other deeds in the same price range as the new cld shares, with clds being a more stable larger value storage tool.

 

[Wistrel]

It removes players capability to store liquid value that is easily tradeable. You have to wait for someone to buy your shares if you want ped. + ma gets a cut on both ends, and removed free market functions, since you can only place sell orders and no buy orders half of the market forces are missing. Its sole purpose was to give mindark another form of taxation and to remove ped from the players hand and adds multiple steps to prevent them from selling and withdrawing. The psychology behind it will incentivize people to leave it in regardless of price. worst part is they did it so they can capture ped from players that need it most, those without substantial bankrolls. there were multiple other deeds in the same price range as the new cld shares, with clds being a more stable larger value storage tool.

hmm guess it's bad that you can't place buy orders like you can on the auction... but even if you were to sell your old deeds on the auction... you still needed a buyer. I guess it causes an issue if you wanted to trade hand to hand though? Can't say I checked out the situation fully so don't really know.

As for MA getting a cut... they'd get that on the auction too although I appreciate it might be a different kind of cut. I do kinda support them in the notion of not running 2 systems that more or less do the same sort of thing (even if, as you say, incomplete in their missing of the buy orders option). I remember in the old game they had a building called Entropia Exchange. I think the idea there was for stocks of some kind to be bought and sold but it was only ever eye candy or an unfulfilled dream, at least in the period I was playing for (possible there was some functionality before 2004).

I mentioned the failed (non-MA initiative) DSE in another thread that unfortunately got removed. The reason DSE failed is that it was sorta trying to do what we have now in the place the CLDs got moved to. The trouble was, in the DSE's case none of the companies being traded ever amounted to anything so their value spiraled down after the initial hope/hype. In the case of this interface MA have for trading different sort of deeds they do at least have dividend pay outs so people assign them a notion of value (even if that value has gone a tad non-sensible these days in some cases).

On that final point, I do sometimes wonder if people forget that it costs to put money into the game to buy deeds in the first place, and then it costs to remove money at the end of your investment period, not to mention any bank fees associated with one's native currency conversion to/from the USD, When CLDs initially went on sale, even considering these costs the projected and even the actual returns seemed reasonable (noting that buying stuff in an unregulated game is high risk compared to trading real stocks and shares) these days though... I'm not sure it would be possible to turn a profit on deeds if you bought them today.... unless the deed price continues to go up. I suppose it is possible that the turnover of the game could increase and thus the dividends pay out more... but generally, I don't think we've ever seen that sort of upward trend. I believe there is tracking data for them somewhere but not checked in a long time.

Wistrel

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

hmm guess it's bad that you can't place buy orders like you can on the auction... but even if you were to sell your old deeds on the auction... you still needed a buyer. I guess it causes an issue if you wanted to trade hand to hand though? Can't say I checked out the situation fully so don't really know.

As for MA getting a cut... they'd get that on the auction too although I appreciate it might be a different kind of cut. I do kinda support them in the notion of not running 2 systems that more or less do the same sort of thing (even if, as you say, incomplete in their missing of the buy orders option). I remember in the old game they had a building called Entropia Exchange. I think the idea there was for stocks of some kind to be bought and sold but it was only ever eye candy or an unfulfilled dream, at least in the period I was playing for (possible there was some functionality before 2004).

I mentioned the failed (non-MA initiative) DSE in another thread that unfortunately got removed. The reason DSE failed is that it was sorta trying to do what we have now in the place the CLDs got moved to. The trouble was, in the DSE's case none of the companies being traded ever amounted to anything so their value spiraled down after the initial hope/hype. In the case of this interface MA have for trading different sort of deeds they do at least have dividend pay outs so people assign them a notion of value (even if that value has gone a tad non-sensible these days in some cases).

On that final point, I do sometimes wonder if people forget that it costs to put money into the game to buy deeds in the first place, and then it costs to remove money at the end of your investment period, not to mention any bank fees associated with one's native currency conversion to/from the USD, When CLDs initially went on sale, even considering these costs the projected and even the actual returns seemed reasonable (noting that buying stuff in an unregulated game is high risk compared to trading real stocks and shares) these days though... I'm not sure it would be possible to turn a profit on deeds if you bought them today.... unless the deed price continues to go up. I suppose it is possible that the turnover of the game could increase and thus the dividends pay out more... but generally, I don't think we've ever seen that sort of upward trend. I believe there is tracking data for them somewhere but not checked in a long time.

Wistrel

Yeah there is a thread that tracks them and their ROI since the start or at various price points. And you are correct their current value and returns now are completely nullified by depo and withdraw costs as well as their inflated value. If they were still 1k ea or 10p a share at OG price they would be a good investment still, but at 3k ea they were bringing in only about 7% ROI a year, and now i think the shares are above 40p/4k a OG share, so dividends are worthless and only point in owning is to resell as it goes higher.


The major loss I am talking about is players ability to trade in person and have an easy store of value that everyone typically accepts, yet isnt straight ped. Now I personally have been affected by this morse-so than others given I run a rental service. So it makes renting out high value items much harder, low value items are still manageable but a bit more difficult than before yet it still affects everyone.

Mindark seems to be intentionally trying to make it harder for players to work together and be co-operative. The loot system doesnt allow it very well, the skill implants are so convoluted I would say they give players the false expectation they can cash out their skills if they want to quit, and with the removal of CLD's trading friends to borrow items or in my case rent is now orders of magnitude more difficult. The systems they are making are all only half complete. They dont allow for full free market interaction only 1 side, and it distorts the economy. I sincerely hope they plan on making it easier for players to safely do more than just sell. Not just for my own interests, but for the game as a whole because it is one of the major flaws of the games economy that drives a wedge between players.

Look at the recent egg NFT sales. A lot of players might have wanted to participate in the purchase, me included, but getting access to the crypto system they used was rather confusing. And I REALLY wanted to buy some shares in Mindark when it went public, but its practically IMPOSSIBLE for someone in the united states to do so, as it is on a very small exchange in sweden, which requires access to a swedish bank, which is really hard for americans to do because everyone in the world hates the IRS because americans get taxed where ever they are and where ever their money is, so a lot of countries just dont bother letting us open accounts because they dont want the hassle of dealing with the IRS and reporting to them. I know that there are always ways around these things, but my point is mindark made it very difficult for the largest part of their playerbase to not get involved with their IPO. I really hope this trend doesnt continue as we get closer to the UE5 update and launch on the epic games service.

 

[jetsina]

I get the distinct impression that if they had the creativity, people would complain that the wheel is far too two-dimensional to be of any use!
As for the tyres on them, they have indentation patterns on the outside that ruin the sphericicity (if that's a word)... what's the point of that?

On the other hand, MA do seem to create systems with design issues on a regular basis, but we hamsters on the wheel are very divided on the topic of what could be done better, even when it should be obvious. Then again, that's rather subjective maybe.

Inefficiency that is hard to get to grips with, and secrets that are hard to untangle, are hallmarks in EU. It makes the difference for most between losing more and losing less, hopefully whilst having a good time, though. It could even be that MA have to make it so, otherwise mus would quickly reach some logical value in strict accordance with agreed values for anything and everything.

So, please keep the ball rolling in UE5, even if it then rolls around somewhat 'unpredicatably?' ...

 

[Wistrel]

Yeah there is a thread that tracks them and their ROI since the start or at various price points. And you are correct their current value and returns now are completely nullified by depo and withdraw costs as well as their inflated value. If they were still 1k ea or 10p a share at OG price they would be a good investment still, but at 3k ea they were bringing in only about 7% ROI a year, and now i think the shares are above 40p/4k a OG share, so dividends are worthless and only point in owning is to resell as it goes higher.


The major loss I am talking about is players ability to trade in person and have an easy store of value that everyone typically accepts, yet isnt straight ped. Now I personally have been affected by this morse-so than others given I run a rental service. So it makes renting out high value items much harder, low value items are still manageable but a bit more difficult than before yet it still affects everyone.

Mindark seems to be intentionally trying to make it harder for players to work together and be co-operative. The loot system doesnt allow it very well, the skill implants are so convoluted I would say they give players the false expectation they can cash out their skills if they want to quit, and with the removal of CLD's trading friends to borrow items or in my case rent is now orders of magnitude more difficult. The systems they are making are all only half complete. They dont allow for full free market interaction only 1 side, and it distorts the economy. I sincerely hope they plan on making it easier for players to safely do more than just sell. Not just for my own interests, but for the game as a whole because it is one of the major flaws of the games economy that drives a wedge between players.

Look at the recent egg NFT sales. A lot of players might have wanted to participate in the purchase, me included, but getting access to the crypto system they used was rather confusing. And I REALLY wanted to buy some shares in Mindark when it went public, but its practically IMPOSSIBLE for someone in the united states to do so, as it is on a very small exchange in sweden, which requires access to a swedish bank, which is really hard for americans to do because everyone in the world hates the IRS because americans get taxed where ever they are and where ever their money is, so a lot of countries just dont bother letting us open accounts because they dont want the hassle of dealing with the IRS and reporting to them. I know that there are always ways around these things, but my point is mindark made it very difficult for the largest part of their playerbase to not get involved with their IPO. I really hope this trend doesnt continue as we get closer to the UE5 update and launch on the epic games service.

I vaguely got the impression that the IPO was sorta intended to be fairly low key... not sure why but somehow did. Agree on the NFT stuff, the majority of people can't be arsed with crypto. I suspect there was a reason they did this affiliate egg and whatever it hatches into via crypto. Probably the folks who ran that auction approached them and sold them on the idea. Just a guess. Ah well... at least the CLD's generally worked out for the original investors. Mindark do occasionally get something right when it comes to unexpected ideas... maybe not that often but sometimes.