Calypso sale: check my math

[Cail]

Guess what? It's not. Answer is somewhere in the 78 pages citizen thread, but to make a long story short the other 25 percent will be used for operating expenses, development and (ta da!) advertising.

Did MA answer to that then?
Guess they should start learning english.

 

[hogfather]

Guess they should start learning english.

No objections there

Edit: Here's part of the post from Bjorn|MindArk over at EF where it's easier to find

The Planet Partner Revenue paid to Planet Calypso (AR Universe AB) will be divided equally: 50% paid to Land Lot deedholders and the remaining 50% to cover the ongoing development, marketing and operating costs of Planet Calypso.

 

[Skaffen]

Golden

It's a golden handshake.

Half gross return = $6m, Calypso worth $12m as going concern - I wonder how much tt+ is IG?

How long before ND follows suit?

 

[Igorl]

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but if you buy $6M shares and your maximum expected ROI is 30%, that means you get $2M per year.

Noone said it is 30% ROI.

It is UP TO 30%. 0% ROI is possible as well - and its most likely as now things stand.

MindArk is in the red as it is now. Plus this action of selling shares will furthermore drain PEDcards of ppl so 6M$ less cash is there to cycle in game (I wonder if anyone will actually take out his/hers wallet and cash in million amounts of hard cold cash)...

Be very very careful when buying shares. If profit after taxes < 0 then your payout is 0.00 PED / week...

Regards

I.

 

[Igorl]

It's a golden handshake.

Half gross return = $6m, Calypso worth $12m as going concern - I wonder how much tt+ is IG?

How long before ND follows suit?

12m$?

its far stretched that calypso has 6000 active players (the ones depositing actually). Paying 2000$ for a single customer is really sour deal unless you guarantee me that all are in Trump / Ecclestone / Rockafeller payroll class...

I.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Noone said it is 30% ROI.

It is UP TO 30%. 0% ROI is possible as well - and its most likely as now things stand.

MindArk is in the red as it is now. Plus this action of selling shares will furthermore drain PEDcards of ppl so 6M$ less cash is there to cycle in game (I wonder if anyone will actually take out his/hers wallet and cash in million amounts of hard cold cash)...

Be very very careful when buying shares. If profit after taxes < 0 then your payout is 0.00 PED / week...

Regards

I.

The only way it could be 0%, would be if noone decayed anything ever.

So deed holders will get a % back, what that % is would depend on how much people play. A bit of a shot in the dark at the moment

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: ROI is not based on profit. It is based on revenue, revenue = decay. It cannot be negative

 

[dr_udi]

Two words that pop into my head:
Pyramid game
Empty promises

gl to all buyers of "shares"

 

[remontoire]

It's a golden handshake.

Half gross return = $6m, Calypso worth $12m as going concern - I wonder how much tt+ is IG?

How long before ND follows suit?

Never, would be my guess. Its a lousy way to raise money, they are promising away too large a share of the gross. ND studios is much better off selling some of the LAs, or a dome of Hell ... when there is enough demand.

 

[humanwoman]

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but if you buy $6M shares and your maximum expected ROI is 30%, that means you get $2M per year.

Noone said it is 30% ROI. It is UP TO 30%...
Regards

I.

Common, you quote me and start arguing like I said otherwise...

 

[remontoire]

The only way it could be 0%, would be if noone decayed anything ever.

Yes, like they renamed calypso to something else, broke it up to two new planets, or did any number of other things.

 

[Skaffen]

Mean

12m$?

its far stretched that calypso has 6000 active players (the ones depositing actually). Paying 2000$ for a single customer is really sour deal unless you guarantee me that all are in Trump / Ecclestone / Rockafeller payroll class...

I.

The 6000 active players breakdown to approx 100 Ubers, 1000 Mid Lvl and 4900 having a go. - I'm sure the majority would be happy to be valued at $2000, not Star though...you seen his inventory?

 

[Xavier_Jr]

up to 30%... could be 1%

Where you have read "expected up to 30%"?. They have said "expected between 27% to 30%". At least in its first year will be like they have said (otherwise they would like liars or jokers). But i am concerned, because in a virtual world where the only "gross revenue" came from expenses and loses from playing... Our rate of return expected for this first year will be:
RoR expected = 100% - ROI expected. That is: our RoR expected, will be between 70-73%. Good Bye "Rule about 90% TT to long term"... Take care, dear Rule. We loved..!!

 

[Ace Flyster]

Yes, like they renamed calypso to something else, broke it up to two new planets, or did any number of other things.

Well if you want to go down that road

Here are a couple of others for you:

There is a big earthquake, flash flooding, the company folds etc

For me though i will leave that to the conspiracy theorists

For realistic terms, payments from revenue, cannot be a negative amount. And to satisfy the conspiracy theorists, it is HIGHLY unprobably (improbable?) to be 0%

Rgds

Ace

 

[Jimmy B]

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but if you buy $6M shares and your maximum expected ROI is 30%, that means you get $2M per year.

It's strange, who would like to sell half the planet for $6M, if it brings $4M per year?

Just wait 1.5 year and you don't have to sell anything and give away $2M every year afterwards.

A projected (probably optimistically) gross revenue of $8M per year (since we're buying 25% of the planet's revenue not 50%) does not mean $8M profit.

MA presumably need to get a cash injection and reduce liabilities (ie. PED in-game that could be withdrawn) now. If, hypothetically, you're going to go bust without cash, the future revenue you'd generate per year without that cash is $0 not $8M.

Also, aiming for 30% ROI on a high-risk investment like this doesn't strike me as unreasonable. It's not like your bank offering you a guaranteed 30% ROI. Potentially you could make much less here, even before you start considering ugly things like MA going bankrupt and Calypso shutting down.

The 6000 active players breakdown to approx 100 Ubers, 1000 Mid Lvl and 4900 having a go. - I'm sure the majority would be happy to be valued at $2000, not Star though...you seen his inventory?

That's not what he meant. The people (ie. us) paying $6mil for 1/4 of Calypso's gross revenue don't care how much junk Star has in his inventory. We care how much revenue he brings us by cycling PED.

(improbable?)

Improbable.

 

[Skaffen]

Careless Bear

That's not what he meant. The people (ie. us) paying $6mil for 1/4 of Calypso's gross revenue don't care how much junk Star has in his inventory. We care how much revenue he brings us by cycling PED.

No? - You won't care when he decides to liquidate it all and withdraw? I assume you are aware how much financial assets MA holds relative to IG value, and how stunted operating cashflow can end the whole 'project'?

One must assume the staff are currently satisfied with their 50% - will be interesting to see how long before they sell to pay the mortgage.

 

[Jimmy B]

No? - You won't care when he decides to liquidate it all and withdraw?

Referring back to your original post and the post you were responding to, my point was that the land deed buyers are not paying $2000 per avatar (not my figure) for their inventories, they are paying that for the revenue they generate.

In terms of Star liquidating it all, it has no direct impact on land deed holders - that liability is borne by MA. Of course, if MA get into financial trouble as a result then that is bad news for land deed holders. Likewise if a new depositor comes along a deposits $2M in-game, that has no direct impact on land deed holders, aside for the revenue they generate from cycling PED afterwards, and reduced risk as a result of the extra financial stability that provides for MA.

 

[Skaffen]

Oxymoron

Referring back to your original post and the post you were responding to, my point was that the land deed buyers are not paying $2000 per avatar (not my figure) for their inventories, they are paying that for the revenue they generate.

In terms of Star liquidating it all, it has no direct impact on land deed holders - that liability is borne by MA. Of course, if MA get into financial trouble as a result then that is bad news for land deed holders.

I know what they are paying for, and I see you make the connection also...eventually and unfortunately with contradiction.

 

[XeroX2]

Two words that pop into my head:
Pyramid game
Empty promises

gl to all buyers of "shares"

In that case get rid of your items with a high MU QUICKLY!!! They are the same thing actually. Only tt is guaranteed by MA in case the "pyramid" collapses. So really the holders of high MU items and "shares" would be all in the same boat. Seeing nothing of their money back.

 

[Jimmy B]

In terms of Star liquidating it all, it has no direct impact on land deed holders - that liability is borne by MA. Of course, if MA get into financial trouble as a result then that is bad news for land deed holders.

I know what they are paying for, and I see you make the connection also...eventually and unfortunately with contradiction.

No contradiction, Star liquedating does not in itself necessarily put MA into financial trouble. Like I say, there is no direct impact on the land deed holders. If it results in MA getting into financial trouble then there arises an indirect impact for the land deed holders.

Anyway, we've digressed way beyond my original point, which was that no-one suggested anywhere that Star's inventory was being valued at $2000. Even if the post in question was valuing avatar inventories (which it wasn't) the figure quoted would have been an average over all avatars.

 

[Skaffen]

Ma Bad

No contradiction, Star liquedating does not in itself necessarily put MA into financial trouble. Like I say, there is no direct impact on the land deed holders. If it results in MA getting into financial trouble then there arises an indirect impact for the land deed holders.

Anyway, we've digressed way beyond my original point, which was that no-one suggested anywhere that Star's inventory was being valued at $2000. Even if the post in question was valuing avatar inventories (which it wasn't) the figure quoted would have been an average over all avatars.

Apologies, you weren't being contradictory, just pedantic.

Why are MA resorting to this 'issue' if not for financial troubles?

ps. MA don't guarantee tt value, because they can't.

 

[Caramon]

In terms of Star liquidating it all, it has no direct impact on land deed holders - that liability is borne by MA. Of course, if MA get into financial trouble as a result then that is bad news for land deed holders. Likewise if a new depositor comes along a deposits $2M in-game, that has no direct impact on land deed holders, aside for the revenue they generate from cycling PED afterwards, and reduced risk as a result of the extra financial stability that provides for MA.

Only Stars peds and TT value of items is of interest to MA. To withdraw the markup of items someone else have to pay the markup of those items with peds that somewhere down the trading chain has to be deposited.

Im pretty sure the majority of Stars and other top level avatars assets are in markup that need to be transfered into the hands of another avatar if they want to withdraw.

 

[K-Max]

Be very very careful when buying shares. If profit after taxes < 0 then your payout is 0.00 PED / week....

What has been so bluntly been corrected to me is it is not Profit it is Revenue, Top line numbers not Bottom line numbers of the report. Planet could not profit as a whole but peds will still get payed out by 1/60000 of 25% of any revenue generated per deed held. Now question is what revenue? All revenue or only revenue from specific things that's the big question. item decay and tt purchases only or from all revenue from planet such as auction house fees, shop sales tax fees etc. Noone from MA has stated.

 

[K-Max]

One more question where did this $8 million in profit for Calypso figure come from? I have only read $4 million in exhange which includes all exchanges between individuals as well, shop purchases, decay repait, tt terminal, auction house purchases, prolly even includes creature drop values, etc. That is not a profit value they stated it is an amount exchanged value.

Could someone point me to where the $8 Million profit per year value for Calypso is stated I am interested in a good read.

 

[K-Max]

Here is my hypothetical math:

Lets for example say 1 million PEDs was revenue for a week, I have no idea how many PEDs worth of revenue happens on Calypso in a week but 1 million PEDs is a big enough example number.

1,000,000 PEDs Multiply that by 25% because that's the PP percentage that deed holders can take advantage of.

250,000PEDs is 25%, Now for 1 deed divide that by 60000, you get 4.166666PED per week per deed.

4.166666PED per week equals 216.67PED per year on that 52 million PEDs of revenue for that year.

Deeds sell for 1,000PEDs each so it will take 4.62 years to get your PED back on 1 deed if the 1 million PED revenue holds for each week.

Does anyone see anything wrong with my math?

But you do get a chance to build a house on a spot of land which who knows how much extra that will cost at that time in 2 years. And you get a vote for each deed you own on planet decision making whatever that consists of.


Edit:
That 52 million PED a year amount is 5.2 million USD per year in this example of revenue. To me revenue includes revenue from auction house, shop taxes, decay repair and tt terminals and stuff like that. I really don't see 5.2 million USD in revenue happening on Calypso every year but I could be wrong, so my 1 million ped a week might be a good starting point for peoples hypothetical calculations.

 

[Jimmy B]

Only Stars peds and TT value of items is of interest to MA. To withdraw the markup of items someone else have to pay the markup of those items with peds that somewhere down the trading chain has to be deposited.

Indeed. Although some of that markup would likely be paid by PED that is already in-game, so in an immediate sense Star's withdrawals would be more than the corresponding deposits. Anyway, poor Star, how did his stuff become the focus of converstaion?

Apologies, you weren't being contradictory, just pedantic.

Why are MA resorting to this 'issue' if not for financial troubles?

Well, to the first point, OK, maybe; I can live with that.

To the second, well quite, clearly they have a need for some cash and some reduction of liabilities. For all my pedantic comments, I'm pretty sure I never suggested there was no risk associated with this investment MA are offering us.

 

[billairboy]

I pretty sure the 27-30 range of ROI is based on the revenue on Calypso revenue for the this and the years before. So, is not so important right know to know exactly how the revenue are calculated. If you think the the amount of players will be about the same as today we will probably get about 27-30 %. If the amount of players goes down with 50 %, the ROI will be about 15 %. If the amount of players double, the ROI will be about 55-60 %.

You simple just have to think on this two queastions:
The important thing is, do you believe in the future of MA/EU?
Do you think Calypso can manage the competition against the other planets and keep or increase the amount of players?

 

[K-Max]

I pretty sure the 27-30 range of ROI is based on the revenue on Calypso revenue for the this and the years before. So, is not so important right know to know exactly how the revenue are calculated. If you think the the amount of players will be about the same as today we will probably get about 27-30 %. If the amount of players goes down with 50 %, the ROI will be about 15 %. If the amount of players double, the ROI will be about 55-60 %.

You simple just have to think on this two queastions:
The important thing is, do you believe in the future of MA/EU?
Do you think Calypso can manage the competition against the other planets and keep or increase the amount of players?

YA ROI is hard to put into a good example, and funny thing about statistics like ROI is 79% of them are just made up on the spot , instead in a few posts up I just used 1million ped a week as an example to build off of. Much easier to visualize.

 

[aridash]

Noone said it is 30% ROI.

It is UP TO 30%. 0% ROI is possible as well - and its most likely as now things stand.

MindArk is in the red as it is now. [...]
Be very very careful when buying shares. If profit after taxes < 0 then your payout is 0.00 PED / week...

this is incorrect too. from the original posting:

Citizens of Planet Calypso will receive a share in the planet partner Gross Revenue. Based on Planet Calypso’s performance over the last twelve months, the potential ROI (Return of Investment) of such shares is expected to be between 27% - 30% per year

its based on revenue, not profit. how many people cannt read that? its not "upto" it is "expected" to be 27-30%, apparently based on current revenue. in theory, if they doubled their revenue over the next year or two, the return could become 60%. as indeed the posting hints later:

The success and profitability of the planet will determine the revenue received as a land lot deed holder. If Calypso becomes more popular, the ROI will be higher;

honestly, i have never seen so much debate and so many misunderstandings. i know MA have been poor with their information in the past but it seem people have assume its the poor and ambiguous without reading it. its a very clear explaination of the deal.

 

[uni_corn]

i see it like:

they want to loan money from me and all they tell is i get it back now or then.

from the numbers today it is expected that it takes like 3 years for me to have my money back and from then on i would gain some.

60k deeds and every deed represents 100m² of calypso.
So not all land on calypso is sold now.
could be that they need more money next year and put even more deeds out.
as i cant find data on how big calypso is atm i cant calculate what the worst can happen.

maybe someone can do the math on that?

There is a big chance that it takes even longer until i get my money back.

if i would be out on getting a high payout per week in future i would always have to buy more deeds when they give out.

too much risk for me that i run in a spiral of deed-buying in the end to secure a payback from ma which is not like 10 years or so just to speculate to have a decent weekly payout one day i could play the game from without having to deposit in the future.

but everyone who wants to participate and got the money spare IRL to speculate is free to do ofcourse.

good luck to everyone and think what is best for YOU.

greets,

silvie <3

 

[Lerp]

Just buy one for fun.
With the thought that maybe you can vote or get to pick a location to build a house.

Like they said its the cost of 2 games per year. Its the cost of two games. Play and have fun.

If you want to tear it all apart and figure out if its a good investment. Well they got you already.
It will just be another player in a long line of players.
I am going to buy one and be dam the return. Ill make a paper airplane out of it and throw it around the room.
It will stilll be fun. Dont go all in or you are bound to be hungry.

Look at the company and who is selling it to you.
The same ones who were shut down for reasons we are not allowed to talk about by law because of a sealed case.

Yes- they were not shut down for new graphics.
It was because they stole something.
They paid for it yes but in the end this game is run by the same crooked mob that it was run by back then.

Its ok by me. Its a game. Ive not lost a dime in all these years and any money spent was for fun and I dont regrett any of it. Ive had a good time. I think they could have build a real cash game not this joke of an effort but hey they were crooks when they started it and I doubt that has changed.

So dont quit your day job. Buy a few, enjoy the game and stop pulling your hair out.