Calypso sale: check my math

[Xavier_Jr]

Only Stars peds and TT value of items is of interest to MA. To withdraw the markup of items someone else have to pay the markup of those items with peds that somewhere down the trading chain has to be deposited.

Im pretty sure the majority of Stars and other top level avatars assets are in markup that need to be transfered into the hands of another avatar if they want to withdraw.

Well, not exactly. Maybe another person is buying items of Jenna Star (Ok). - This person could be another Uber with a lot of PEDs -
However, not exactly is true that chain have an infinity end. Think this: 4 years ago, some players could have deposited a great amount of real dollars to buy another expensive things from the second avatar. Besides 6 years ago, players could win PEDs directly in loot window.

But in 5 or 6 years, Mindark have had "Current expenditures" and that real money (from 4 years ago) could have been eaten by those current expenditures - Do not forget, in no case, workers of Mindark can use PEDs to go to the grocery store - (then it is possible now only exist PEDs - a nice yellow drawing of coins -. and a debt seat in book keeping)

Now, you have a lot of virtual money called PEDs that need TODAY to transform in real dollars. As you can see, not necesarily is exactly as you thought

 

[dr_udi]

In that case get rid of your items with a high MU QUICKLY!!! They are the same thing actually. Only tt is guaranteed by MA in case the "pyramid" collapses. So really the holders of high MU items and "shares" would be all in the same boat. Seeing nothing of their money back.

What high MU items

 

[millstreet2]

i see it like:

they want to loan money from me and all they tell is i get it back now or then.

from the numbers today it is expected that it takes like 3 years for me to have my money back and from then on i would gain some.

60k deeds and every deed represents 100m² of calypso.
So not all land on calypso is sold now.
could be that they need more money next year and put even more deeds out.
as i cant find data on how big calypso is atm i cant calculate what the worst can happen.

maybe someone can do the math on that?

There is a big chance that it takes even longer until i get my money back.

if i would be out on getting a high payout per week in future i would always have to buy more deeds when they give out.

too much risk for me that i run in a spiral of deed-buying in the end to secure a payback from ma which is not like 10 years or so just to speculate to have a decent weekly payout one day i could play the game from without having to deposit in the future.

but everyone who wants to participate and got the money spare IRL to speculate is free to do ofcourse.

good luck to everyone and think what is best for YOU.

greets,

silvie <3

They said they will not release more shares, and vise versely if all don't sell we won't get a larger share, its 1/60k FIRM.

Lets say the sky fell and they figure out a way to sell more? Is there a price thats set in stone for such a secondary market sale? And if the deeds are selling for 5k per deed, Would they flood the market with 1k deeds? And other way around, will they charge 1k if the deeds for some reason are selling for 500 ped?

They said the shares are stable at the rate given, You cannot promise 1/60k per share of a total revenue and then issue more shares. That would clearly comprimise the initial sale. Something any business worth a lick wouldn't do.

If they wanted to allow more land to be utilized in this system, they would simply split the shares 2:1, Thus allowing 2x the amount of housing, while not effecting the values at all.

As you would be recieving 2/120k of a share per one of the old value at 1/60k

 

[SpikeBlack]

The only way they can issue more shares is to sell another 25% of the revenue, mostly from the MA side of the split or MA could sell 25% of the space revenue in another 60k of shares after all fuel is being used in space.

 

[wizzszz]

100% of calypso go for 4 million

50% of calypso go for 6 million, that's 12 million for the entire planet



Did calypsos number of players go up by 200% recently??











And before any hairsplicers come along and whine about my math:
I know, buying it for 4 million would mean you have to establish your own game designer team, but for the 8 million difference i can hire a shitload of computer kiddies who love to design game stuff for almost free for the next 100 years...

 

[Wollongong]

Disclaimer: I only read the OP.

1) It is not about profit, but gross revenues
2) It is 50% of the 50% which would normally go to the Planet Partner.

What worries me, is that they advertise the ROI as about 30%.
If this 30% is 50% of 50%, that means that the ROI on the FULL dividend would be double that for the Planet Partner.... 60% ROI is kind of outrageous.

What this tells me..? That either there is no real excuse anymore for the no loots, or the 30% promise is entirely full of Common Dung.

 

[millstreet2]

100% of calypso go for 4 million

50% of calypso go for 6 million, that's 12 million for the entire planet



Did calypsos number of players go up by 200% recently??

And before any hairsplicers come along and whine about my math:
I know, buying it for 4 million would mean you have to establish your own game designer team, but for the 8 million difference i can hire a shitload of computer kiddies who love to design game stuff for almost free for the next 100 years...

You just answered your own question.

 

[wizzszz]

You just answered your own question.

It was a rhetorical question. And no, playerbase tripled is not the correct answer.



millstreet, please stop commenting on my posts, tyvm.

 

[billairboy]

.
If this 30% is 50% of 50%, that means that the ROI on the FULL dividend would be double that for the Planet Partner.... 60% ROI is kind of outrageous.

What this tells me..? That either there is no real excuse anymore for the no loots, or the 30% promise is entirely full of Common Dung.

Totaly wrong conclution. The 30 % expacted ROI based on the price (1000 ped) you payed for the Land plots, it has nothing with the total ROI of the planets. MA could have sold them for 3000 ped and the ROI would be 10 %, but it would not effect the total revenue/profit of the planet or the planetspartners profit.

 

[K-Max]

So far i have collected the following data on what revenue is based on:

Revenue as per what a PP recieves.

- Decay of items (including ammo burn). source: MindArk officials physically voiced this in interview, they also said other avatar actions and fees but never went into detail so this can be considered NOTHING until they let us know.

- Auction house fees. source: Thread where Next Island official stated they are a part of a planet partners generated revenue.

So far those are the only statements for revenue that can be trusted from what I can see, they are from a PP and from MindArk directly.

So if Calypso generates 1 Million PED a week "steadily" week after week year after year, from item decay (including ammo burn) and auction house fees you will recoup your deed purchase in about 4.5 years. As per my calculations in a previous post on this thread. I think this is really high number actually but I could be wrong.

Still keeping an eye out for more data of facts and not assumptions. Facts come from PP's or MA directly nowhere else, everything else is considered as just an assumption.

 

[billairboy]

100% of calypso go for 4 million

50% of calypso go for 6 million, that's 12 million for the entire planet



Did calypsos number of players go up by 200% recently??


And before any hairsplicers come along and whine about my math:
I know, buying it for 4 million would mean you have to establish your own game designer team, but for the 8 million difference i can hire a shitload of computer kiddies who love to design game stuff for almost free for the next 100 years...

I think the price was 6m USD for Calypso?
And as you say, big diffrent between paying and getting money without needing to do anything at all, or like in the case of a planetpartner, need too pay the cost developing the planet.

You must also see the bigger picture, SEE was indended to create more planets like the MJ planets and more. It would have been a good partner for MA (or so the thought) to bring more intrest and players to EU. The sell of Calypso was probably in part in a package of deals, so it's hard to compare so totaly diffrent deals.

 

[Wollongong]

Totaly wrong conclution. The 30 % expacted ROI based on the price (1000 ped) you payed for the Land plots, it has nothing with the total ROI of the planets. MA could have sold them for 3000 ped and the ROI would be 10 %, but it would not effect the total revenue/profit of the planet or the planetspartners profit.

Please explain how the two are not related?

If I invest $1000, then an ROI of 30% means I must get $300.

If $300 is half of the planet partner share, then the full planet partner share is $ 600.
If the full planet partner share is $600, then the full revenue is $ 1200.

And the value of the planet still stands at the price it is sold for, so $ 6000.000 of which I hold $ 1000.

So if it is worth $ 1000, and the revenue is $ 1200....

Please, explain where my thinking is taking a wrong turn here (it might perhaps be obvious, but I am missing it).

 

[billairboy]

Please explain how the two are not related?

If I invest $1000, then an ROI of 30% means I must get $300.

If $300 is half of the planet partner share, then the full planet partner share is $ 600.
If the full planet partner share is $600, then the full revenue is $ 1200.

And the value of the planet still stands at the price it is sold for, so $ 6000.000 of which I hold $ 1000.

So if it is worth $ 1000, and the revenue is $ 1200....

Please, explain where my thinking is taking a wrong turn here (it might perhaps be obvious, but I am missing it).

It was your suggestion that the planetpartner got a 60 % ROI when they owned the whole planet. The ROI are based on how much you have invested, and we don't know how much the pp have invested. Also, our ROI are based on the revenue, we have no cost. The planet partners have cost that makes their finale profit lower or they could even be loosing money even if the land owners makes a profit. We could get a ROI of 30 % and the pp could have a ROI of 10 % for all we know.

 

[Jimmy B]

Please explain how the two are not related?

If I invest $1000, then an ROI of 30% means I must get $300.

If $300 is half of the planet partner share, then the full planet partner share is $ 600.
If the full planet partner share is $600, then the full revenue is $ 1200.

And the value of the planet still stands at the price it is sold for, so $ 6000.000 of which I hold $ 1000.

So if it is worth $ 1000, and the revenue is $ 1200....

Please, explain where my thinking is taking a wrong turn here (it might perhaps be obvious, but I am missing it).

Firstly there's no 'must'. But yes, if 30% ROI is achieved then your $1000 investment gets an annual $300. And if the full revenue is double the planet partner revenue which is double the land deed revenue, then the full revenue of the planet is $1200 per 1/60000th part. And the land deed is 1/4 of that 1/60000th part.

If the land deed got you all the revenue, then it would be an annual revenue of $1200. But then it would also presumably cost $4000 not $1000.

 

[wizzszz]

I think the price was 6m USD for Calypso?

SEE should pay 4 installments of 1 million $ each, that's 4 million - unless my memory tricks me...

 

[LaraD]

If the ROi of the deeds is 30% than MA's gross revenue from calypso will be:
30$ * 60000 * 3 = 5,4 mil $

Is this correct & and is it enough to keep the business running assuming that there is no other money inflow?

 

[Sebulba Dragon]

I don't get you ppl.All of u r calculating shares,revenues,profits etc.But it seems that noone is thinking where can u check and validate those.
Financial report? Thats it? LOL. I'm not suggesting that MA is cheating, but where can u check authenticity of ur %?Is there any instrument? No.Can regarding to EULA Caly be owned? No.Are there any weekly or at least monthly reports about turnover?Has any of you ever made an report? Can it be adapted to owners interests?Huh?
I'm not saying its all bad but as mentioned before these deeds are NOT shares and u r foolish if u expect the same management for these. If I might add, congratz to MA staff, this is simply brilliant plan to make 6M$ over night.
Anyway buona fortuna to all deedholders.

 

[Qwackers]

I don't get you ppl.All of u r calculating shares,revenues,profits etc.But it seems that noone is thinking where can u check and validate those.
Financial report? Thats it? LOL. I'm not suggesting that MA is cheating, but where can u check authenticity of ur %?Is there any instrument? .

Same argument has appiled to taxed Land Areas for all the years they have been out. There is no way the LA deed holders can validate that they are getting their exact percentage other than small scale tests. Over the years has anyone complained about MA short changing them on tax?

It comes down to this, how much do you trust MindArk? Bassed that that you determine the ROI you want for giving them Ped/money. If your wanted ROI does not match what is currently projected (27-30% at 1000Ped) you do not buy and wait for the deed price to fall. There are at least 7000 CLD exposed to the free market.

 

[billairboy]

SEE should pay 4 installments of 1 million $ each, that's 4 million - unless my memory tricks me...

From one of their reports:
"Sales of Subsidiary
The process, for MindArk's subsidiary
First Planet Company, to sell all
rights to the planet Calypso
continues according to plan. The deal
is intended to be completed during
the last quarter of 2010 and will lead
to a capital gain for the MindArk
Group of approximately 6 million
USD. The Group will receive the
payment in five parts until June
2011."

 

[billairboy]

If the ROi of the deeds is 30% than MA's gross revenue from calypso will be:
30$ * 60000 * 3 = 5,4 mil $

Is this correct & and is it enough to keep the business running assuming that there is no other money inflow?

No is not engough, they are loosing money, but they also get revenue from the other planets. One thing have always been clear, they need to increase the amount of players in EU, if they can't do that they soon must start to decrease the development. With more and more planets and planet partners with developing teams that need to be payed, the EU playerbase must increase a lot the commining year/years to sustain that many planets. Othewise planets will so start to shut down because they don't have enough players.

One other thing, the revenue of MA are not directly effect by the Land plots, MA revenue are only effect by players depositing and withdrawal of peds, if they players spend the money they get from the land plots it will not effect their revenue. Indirectly it could effect the revenue because it's decrease the need to deposit new money, but i think much of the peds from the land plots will just be spent ingame without decreasing the deposits much.

 

[wizzszz]

From one of their reports:
"Sales of Subsidiary
The process, for MindArk's subsidiary
First Planet Company, to sell all
rights to the planet Calypso
continues according to plan. The deal
is intended to be completed during
the last quarter of 2010 and will lead
to a capital gain for the MindArk
Group of approximately 6 million
USD. The Group will receive the
payment in five parts until June
2011."

As i said "unless my memory tricks me"...

However, this STILL means that calypso doubled it's price tag within a few months.

 

[billairboy]

As i said "unless my memory tricks me"...

However, this STILL means that calypso doubled it's price tag within a few months.

Well, i said in earlier reply, diffrent type of deals, so it's hard to compare them.

 

[aridash]

However, this STILL means that calypso doubled it's price tag within a few months.

people keep saying this... but its not being sold, its a different propostion to that which SEE entered into.

 

[Jimmy B]

As i said "unless my memory tricks me"...

However, this STILL means that calypso doubled it's price tag within a few months.

Under the previous deal, Calypso was going to be marketed and run by FPC/SDS/SEE/whoevertheywere. Under the new deal, MA continue to run Calypso (and hopefully start marketing it).

That's quite a big difference.

 

[wizzszz]

That's quite a big difference.

Yes, indeed - before 6 million would have bought me a full PP position, including all decisions about who to hire, what content to make and how much of the income i would invest in advertising... now 6 million would buy me 50% of the income and an amorphous voting right somewhere in the future...

Or to put it differently:
If you are willing to invest 6 million, would you rather make the same deal SEE had or buy all 60k shares?

A prime example of a no-brainer, isn't it?

 

[aridash]

Yes, indeed - before 6 million would have bought me a full PP position, including all decisions about who to hire, what content to make and how much of the income i would invest in advertising...

...the cost of the overheads of hiring, offices, repaymnt to the bank and investors, cashflow, tax... still a "no-brainer", you have access to $6m to execute the full PP option?

it certainly is a no brainer for MA though

 

[billairboy]

Yes, indeed - before 6 million would have bought me a full PP position, including all decisions about who to hire, what content to make and how much of the income i would invest in advertising... now 6 million would buy me 50% of the income and an amorphous voting right somewhere in the future...

Or to put it differently:
If you are willing to invest 6 million, would you rather make the same deal SEE had or buy all 60k shares?

A prime example of a no-brainer, isn't it?

If i buy the land plot, i will probably get 20-30 % ROI, without lifting a finger. A planet partner must put some effort to make the planet run, they can also loose money, their cost can be bigger than the revenue. Our revenue can never be lower than 0, it can't be negative. Also, a big invester often get a lower price compared to one that buy smaller shares.

 

[tamlin]

However, this STILL means that calypso doubled it's price tag within a few months.

Not to mention approx. 20 times as high as MA valued Calypso 2009-12-31.

 

[wizzszz]

...the cost of the overheads of hiring, offices, repaymnt to the bank and investors, cashflow, tax... still a "no-brainer", you have access to $6m to execute the full PP option?

it certainly is a no brainer for MA though

If i buy the land plot, i will probably get 20-30 % ROI, without lifting a finger. A planet partner must put some effort to make the planet run, they can also loose money, their cost can be bigger than the revenue. Our revenue can never be lower than 0, it can't be negative. Also, a big invester often get a lower price compared to one that buy smaller shares.

For 6 million SEE would have bouhgt a full design team (the former FPC, later renamed to SDS if i got all that confusing shit right...).

If 50% of your ROI does not cover the measly (measly in comparison to the amount of ROI you miss out on now, you know the 50% they keep for "advertising" and stuff...) wages for what, like ~10 people, the entire thing is not worth investing in anyway...


Or in other words: If ROI goes up by 900% (that's 10 time what it is now), the amorphous "design team" gets 10x the wages for the same work... and that sounds logical to you? Sorry, i beg to differ, the only "great deal" here is the 50% of Calypso that are not included in the shares.



And, on a sidenote - if i buy the entire planet, i could fire people who do a shitty job - try that with your shares, even if you buy all of them, your "political influence" will never be that strong.