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Cheating by photoshopping!

Realistically, are you sure a n00b is going to go through all that effort just to win a comp? I mean the prizes are nice and all, but seriously, would they?

Couple that with the number of participants in said event and the the amount of people in EU as a whole that have some knowledge of photoshop or similar programs...

And then there's the trust thing here too... ever had your clothes coloured? ;)

Simplest solution is a timestamped screenshot (Press C) Submitted directly to the organiser via easiest medium... ie msn, skype, EF gallery, email.. whatever they decide, within 3 minutes of timestamp...
 
Hello guys.

I have been reading through this thread about your problem and it could be sorted like this:

I have made an screenshot application for EU, that is called Autoscreen.
Autoscreen can take automatically screenshot when you global or hof, but can also be used as regular print screen replacement.

I can make an additional option for image validation for competitions, that could work like this:

- User selects to use the competition option in Autoscreen.
When the user press "printscreen" an image will be stored in the folder that the user have specified for images as usual, but in addition Autoscreen would then calculate the file hash checksum of the stored file (for example SHA256 or similar).

Autoscreen could then send the image checksum string to the event organizer, if an "event organizer email" option was added to Autoscreen.

Then every image uploaded to EF can be downloaded by the event organizer and checked by using a checksum calc program to verify that the images have the same checksum as the value recieved by email when image was taken.

This might be a little to much, but very secure way to insure that the image are original :).

This would require that the organizers email would be known by the people joining the event.

An other option is that Autoscreen can send the event organizer an email just containing the avatar name and the timestamp of when the image was taken. This could then be compared against the watermark timestamp that Autoscreen put's in the screenshots that are taken.

:cool:
 
vantastic said:
Realistically, are you sure a n00b is going to go through all that effort just to win a comp? I mean the prizes are nice and all, but seriously, would they?

Couple that with the number of participants in said event and the the amount of people in EU as a whole that have some knowledge of photoshop or similar programs...

And then there's the trust thing here too... ever had your clothes coloured? ;)
Click to expand...

I think you hit it nail on ;)
Just because its easy to cheat doesnt automatically mean that people will cheat. Most likely all this fuss just brought it to peoples attention.
 
:scratch2:
I think if you are going to require them to do a whole lot more then sweat they won't want to join the competition.

If you insist .. the nubs must :
step 1. Download Fraps free trial version.
step 2. Record something like this.
step 3. Upload to a high quality video hosting site.

But honestly .. minus the option Mr Smith gave .. those are the only 2 feasable options.
You can pretty much photo shop anything you want to these days.

Good luck !! :wave:
 
Since I have a lot of waiting time at work today, I have added a new option to Autoscreen (not uploaded yet).

With this option you can select that you want the image checksum to be sendt to the event organzier.
All that is needed is to put in the email address of the event organizer.

The function would work like this:

- Option to integrate with printscreen must be enabled in Autoscreen
- Option to send event organizer the image checksum must be enabled
- Email address of the event organizer must be entered.
- Watermark text should be put in

When user have started Autoscreen and presses the C for time and date + printscreen button in game,
an image will be stored in the folder selected and Autoscreen will calculate the unique file checksum of this image.

Autoscreen will then send an email to the mail address specified (event organizer). The mail will contain the date and time of when the image was taken, the unique checksum string of the file and the text that the user have entered in the watermark text (can be EF username etc.)

The event organizer will recieve an email from autoscreen@eu.com (or something like that) with subject "Image checksum".

User go and post the image on EF as he normally would and the event organizer can then download and check any image he/she would like, by selecting "Calculate checksum" from the Autoscreen Action menu.

It would only be needed to check the winner images, so not much work for the event organizer.
If the image have been edited, the checksum will be different from the checksum recieved via email.

Here is how the option could look in Autoscreen:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

I would suggest the event organizers to get an temporary email account to use with this. I'll see later on if this option could put all checksum codes from images in a online database instead of the email option.

Well if you want the option I can have the update ready in very short time :)
 
xentric said:
What if you required to take the screenie with an organiser present(in shot) and to be posted immediately so not giving time for photoshopping.. There can't be that many that could PS it so fast.
Click to expand...
Exactly my solution. It's the equivalent of the "todays newpaper" shot.
 
Hi All,

As an image manipulating pro I can tell you it is going to be impossible to stop the cheaters playing around with the pictures ..... and if they are good then it is impossible to tell. If they are very good then they they could do it to the video as well!
If you are prepared to plough through all the images after the event then I guess the prize is not going to the winner in a hurry. Why not ask MA to validify the results for you. They claim to keep track of everything that happens inside EU so give them a bit of notice and see if they might help.

Regs,

Pecker
 
Pecker said:
If you are prepared to plough through all the images after the event then I guess the prize is not going to the winner in a hurry.
Click to expand...

Only the winners image would need to be examined and yes any image can be manipulated. It all takes time though.

Mr Smith has made a great offer.

gl with the event :)
 
Thanks everyone for all your very helpful feedback! It's a real opener, and I guess you're all right, it's pretty easy to fake whatever you want.

Mr Smith though is the champion with his program (and I already use and love Autoscreen):


MrSmith said:
Since I have a lot of waiting time at work today, I have added a new option to Autoscreen (not uploaded yet).

With this option you can select that you want the image checksum to be sendt to the event organzier.
All that is needed is to put in the email address of the event organizer.

The function would work like this:

- Option to integrate with printscreen must be enabled in Autoscreen
- Option to send event organizer the image checksum must be enabled
- Email address of the event organizer must be entered.
- Watermark text should be put in

When user have started Autoscreen and presses the C for time and date + printscreen button in game,
an image will be stored in the folder selected and Autoscreen will calculate the unique file checksum of this image.

Autoscreen will then send an email to the mail address specified (event organizer). The mail will contain the date and time of when the image was taken, the unique checksum string of the file and the text that the user have entered in the watermark text (can be EF username etc.)

The event organizer will recieve an email from autoscreen@eu.com (or something like that) with subject "Image checksum".

User go and post the image on EF as he normally would and the event organizer can then download and check any image he/she would like, by selecting "Calculate checksum" from the Autoscreen Action menu.

It would only be needed to check the winner images, so not much work for the event organizer.
If the image have been edited, the checksum will be different from the checksum recieved via email.

Here is how the option could look in Autoscreen:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

I would suggest the event organizers to get an temporary email account to use with this. I'll see later on if this option could put all checksum codes from images in a online database instead of the email option.

Well if you want the option I can have the update ready in very short time :)
Click to expand...

MrSmith, that is fantastic. Such an easy one to use, too, as long as we make it a comp requirement that people use your program and activate the send button, then we just check the winner's screenies! Brilliant!!

+ rep, and thanks for already programming it!

Awesome effort.
 
Pecker said:
Why not ask MA to validify the results for you.
Click to expand...

A. Because I doubt they would tell you someone else's skill level. Something about client confidentiality or privacy acts .. or something.
B. I would hope they would have much more pertinent things to tend to, that affect a much larger player base then a handful of sweaters.
C. Mr. Smith's screenie program - Dbel's "today's newspaper" - or prompt upload of video with date / time stamp are much more effective then waiting for MA to get to something with such low priority.

Good luck with the event!! :yay:
 
TimUnleashed said:
Thanks everyone for all your very helpful feedback! It's a real opener, and I guess you're all right, it's pretty easy to fake whatever you want.

Mr Smith though is the champion with his program (and I already use and love Autoscreen):




MrSmith, that is fantastic. Such an easy one to use, too, as long as we make it a comp requirement that people use your program and activate the send button, then we just check the winner's screenies! Brilliant!!

+ rep, and thanks for already programming it!

Awesome effort.
Click to expand...

:) Thanks for nice words, I'll have the update up tomorrow.
I'll post in the Autoscreen thread when update is uploaded.

For those that dont have Autoscreen, check link in my signature.

Thanks
 
Is this a solution to the problem??

The screenshots in this program can still be doctored and sent to an email address cant they?
 
me54321 said:
Is this a solution to the problem??

The screenshots in this program can still be doctored and sent to an email address cant they?
Click to expand...

Every file and versions of files have what you can call an unique signature / identification. What Autoscreen will do is to send the event organizer an automated email with this calculated signature code when the user takes a printscreen with Autoscreen.

If this file is manipulated the signature of the file will change and not match the signature that the event organizer have. So when a winner is found, all the event organizer have to do, is to download the picture that the winner have uploaded to EF and use Autoscreens calculation function to check the signature on this image. If the signature is equal to the signature the event organizer recieved by email when the file was created the first time, then he can be sure that the image have not been tampered with.
 
MrSmith said:
Every file and versions of files have what you can call an unique signature / identification. What Autoscreen will do is to send the event organizer an automated email with this calculated signature code when the user takes a printscreen with Autoscreen.

If this file is manipulated the signature of the file will change and not match the signature that the event organizer have. So when a winner is found, all the event organizer have to do, is to download the picture that the winner have uploaded to EF and use Autoscreens calculation function to check the signature on this image. If the signature is equal to the signature the event organizer recieved by email when the file was created the first time, then he can be sure that the image have not been tampered with.
Click to expand...

I love it... I hereby declare this the standard procedure for all competitions of this sort!

/em cheer

:p
 
TimUnleashed said:
Thanks everyone for all your very helpful feedback! It's a real opener, and I guess you're all right, it's pretty easy to fake whatever you want.
Click to expand...

brainynerf1.jpg

It's not a shop chop...promise! They're really out there, using the giant mushrooms as a secret base, making our life miserable by nerfing the nerf.
 
Kudos to MrSmith adding extra functionality to Autoscreen.

One problem springs to mind though.

If someone simply resizes an image before uploading it to EF, the signature
will be different even if they haven't actually doctored the image itself. This
could be if someone runs EU at a very high resolution and then resizes the
image down to 1024x768 (for example) before uploading.

A possible solution would be for Autoscreen to have an option to output
images at a given size before generating the signature. It could be combined
in a single option called 'Competition Mode', or similar, which would enable the
generating of the signatures, require the event organiser's email address and
resize the images to one of 3 standard resolutions depending on the user's
screen aspect ratio (For example: 1024x768 for 4:3, 1024x576 for 16:9 or
1024x640 for 16:10).

Given that I don't know how Autoscreen works, this may not be possible.
Also, as I've never used Autoscreen, a similar option may already be present.

Anyway.. just my :twocents: :)
 
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u dont need an photoshop.. u only need Paint to do these...
i was thinking about same in these events they make where u have to take a screenie of global with time and coord... its easy to use old pics by just modifing the time and coords... probly someone is using these already in events... u can make flawless pics by just using Paint and it really doesnt even need skills...
 
subdude2k said:
Kudos to MrSmith adding extra functionality to Autoscreen.

One problem springs to mind though.

If someone simply resizes an image before uploading it to EF, the signature
will be different even if they haven't actually doctored the image itself. This
could be if someone runs EU at a very high resolution and then resizes the
image down to 1024x768 (for example) before uploading.

A possible solution would be for Autoscreen to have an option to output
images at a given size before generating the signature. It could be combined
in a single option called 'Competition Mode', or similar, which would enable the
generating of the signatures, require the event organiser's email address and
resize the images to one of 3 standard resolutions depending on the user's
screen aspect ratio (For example: 1024x768 for 4:3, 1024x576 for 16:9 or
1024x640 for 16:10).

Given that I don't know how Autoscreen works, this may not be possible.
Also, as I've never used Autoscreen, a similar option may already be present.

Anyway.. just my :twocents: :)
Click to expand...

Good point, a resize of the image will change the image signature and it would look like it was tampered with.

Autoscreen do have the option to resize images before saving them,
so this option could be used. Also JPEG quality can be changed to make the image smaller.

:)
 
MrSmith said:
Good point, a resize of the image will change the image signature and it would look like it was tampered with.

Autoscreen do have the option to resize images before saving them,
so this option could be used. Also JPEG quality can be changed to make the image smaller.

:)
Click to expand...

Cool. In that case, your additions would seem to be ideal :)
 
Pepper said:
brainynerf1.jpg

It's not a shop chop...promise! They're really out there, using the giant mushrooms as a secret base, making our life miserable by nerfing the nerf.
Click to expand...

OMG that would have to be one of the most random, off-topic posts I have ever seen in my whole entire life. Love it!

+ REP!!!


subdude2k said:
Kudos to MrSmith adding extra functionality to Autoscreen.

One problem springs to mind though.

If someone simply resizes an image before uploading it to EF, the signature
will be different even if they haven't actually doctored the image itself. This
could be if someone runs EU at a very high resolution and then resizes the
image down to 1024x768 (for example) before uploading.

A possible solution would be for Autoscreen to have an option to output
images at a given size before generating the signature. It could be combined
in a single option called 'Competition Mode', or similar, which would enable the
generating of the signatures, require the event organiser's email address and
resize the images to one of 3 standard resolutions depending on the user's
screen aspect ratio (For example: 1024x768 for 4:3, 1024x576 for 16:9 or
1024x640 for 16:10).

Given that I don't know how Autoscreen works, this may not be possible.
Also, as I've never used Autoscreen, a similar option may already be present.

Anyway.. just my :twocents: :)
Click to expand...

awesome point - well made.
 
Dont tell me we have more problems now lol.

The event starts on sunday. DO NOT RESIZE SCREENSHOTS
 
me54321 said:
Dont tell me we have more problems now lol.

The event starts on sunday. DO NOT RESIZE SCREENSHOTS
Click to expand...

If you use Autoscreen resize function, this is not a problem :)

Just if you resize / resave the screenshot taken,
then the unique image ID will change.
 
MrSmith said:
If you use Autoscreen resize function, this is not a problem :)

Just if you resize / resave the screenshot taken,
then the unique image ID will change.
Click to expand...

As it would require a temp email account, this one is pretty nifty PookMail.com they last 24 hrs.
n00bevent@pookmail.com will die in 24 hrs from now for example..names can be anything you like as long as no-one sle has used it.

t
 
Now what if the photoshoppher is a programming jerk aswell :D

He could interrupt the communication of Autoscreen, fastly modify the screen (being prepared before) and then use a proxy to send checksum of modified image?.
As for the delay (20-25seconds) he could justify it by connection time to the server.
Now I'm just raising points that nobody barely thought about xD


EDIT: another problem I just thought of, I don't know how PookMail.com works, but upon receiving the message, do they leave on their time stamp the seconds? Like... do you see "5:35AM" or "5:35AM 32seconds"
In the first place that'd leave the "cheater" 1-2 minutes to operate, which is really enough to produce something of quality.
 
Last edited:
Mkdesign said:
Now what if the photoshoppher is a programming jerk aswell :D

He could interrupt the communication of Autoscreen, fastly modify the screen (being prepared before) and then use a proxy to send checksum of modified image?.
As for the delay (20-25seconds) he could justify it by connection time to the server.
Now I'm just raising points that nobody barely thought about xD


EDIT: another problem I just thought of, I don't know how PookMail.com works, but upon receiving the message, do they leave on their time stamp the seconds? Like... do you see "5:35AM" or "5:35AM 32seconds"
In the first place that'd leave the "cheater" 1-2 minutes to operate, which is really enough to produce something of quality.
Click to expand...

I guess if someone's prepared to go to ALL THAT TROUBLE, then they deserve first prize anyway...

well, not DESERVE... but they'll have earned it... lol

I'll still hate them if I find out they cheated though.
 
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