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Discussion: Changes in CLD payments & ROI

while i admire your patience with dealing with some people i do have a issue with a couple of your facts.
JohnCapital said:
You want the return on your investment to increase? Deposit more! What, when you own stock in a company, don't you do more business with them?
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surely making a purchase regardless of the perceived quality of the product your receive based solely on your previous investment in said business is throwing good money after bad? you invest in a company because you believe you will have a return on that investment and you buy a product if you need or desire it, if the return on that investment is not what you expected i would think it is better to examine why that is, and if applicable, cut your losses than to buy (more) products from the company in the hope of a better ROI.

JohnCapital said:
Wrong. It's your fault for not depositing enough. The blame can be spread among us other players as well, but I'd say MA's done plenty of work trying to encourage more depositing. It's not their fault MA's customer base are lazy and poor and expect everything to be handed to you, um I mean us.


Simple. Because I disagreed with you. I don't argue with simple name-calling. But you supplied facts and I disagreed with your assessment.
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i agree with you that MA has belatedly attempted to correct some of the worst mismatches between "player expectation" and MA's business strategy, but apart from the fact that it appears to be one step forward and one step back for MA i doubt there is any business still in existence that got very far blaming the customer for not buying more of their product. i have a background in marketing and from my POV the customer is always right if they decide not to buy a product, the failure is always the companies, there is either something wrong with the product, or something wrong with how they promote the product, and the effect of "defecating" on ones customers for years is never going to be resolved by one or two positive decisions.
you say (some of) the customer base is lazy and poor and expects everything to be handed to you, but in part this is also the fault of MA and its marketing, by focusing on the "get rich quick" and "investing" aspects of entropia via PR releases based almost exclusively on the sale of high ticket items instead of a holistic marketing strategy based on the advantages for hardcore gamers (withdrawals, toughness/survival, and skills sale for example) you create a expectation of easy money, and the people that seek that, this leads to disappointment, and while you could argue that this is the fault of this subsection of people (and i would agree), from a marketing POV these disappointed people and their word of mouth is a disaster that is difficult to recover from.
 
FallenAngel said:
i have a background in marketing and from my POV the customer is always right if they decide not to buy a product, the failure is always the companies, there is either something wrong with the product, or something wrong with how they promote the product, and the effect of "defecating" on ones customers for years is never going to be resolved by one or two positive decisions.
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No, customers are not always right, because they can be wrong type customers. I can't make every potential customer happy and make the buy products. Why? Every customers have different needs and preferences. Some customers are prepared to pay a higher price to get good quality, or at least what they think is good quality, for other a low price is more important. If I sell high quality, high cost product and a customer "Says, I don't going to buy it because the price is to high" Is the customer right? Not necessary if the customer was not looking for high quality products.

In my opinion a company must always balance the need to make every customer happy (no company can make everyone happy) with the cost of doing so.
 
billairboy said:
No, customers are not always right, because they can be wrong type customers. I can't make every potential customer happy and make the buy products. Why? Every customers have different needs and preferences. Some customers are prepared to pay a higher price to get good quality, or at least what they think is good quality, for other a low price is more important. If I sell high quality, high cost product and a customer "Says, I don't going to buy it because the price is to high" Is the customer right? Not necessary if the customer was not looking for high quality products.

In my opinion a company must always balance the need to make every customer happy (no company can make everyone happy) with the cost of doing so.
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i mostly appreciate your posts and input on economic matters but in this case i think you misunderstand what i said a little, you say every customer has different needs and preferences but say the customer is not always right because they can be the wrong type of customer. i agree that a customer can be the wrong type of customer for a business, but from where i stand it is the companies responsibility to attract the customer that is right for its product in sufficient quantities to sustain the business in the long term. failure to do so would normally only have a permanently bad effect on the company, generally speaking the modern consumer is not starved for choice or alternatives for a given product.
i think i covered your objection in my previous post by mentioning that my opinion is that poor marketing attracted the wrong type of customer, a type who would ultimately not be satisfied with the product offered.

i understand your analogy about high and low quality and price and expectation, but i do not think this applies to MA as it stands, at least i dont recall any recent posts by people claiming that this game is a high quality but high priced product and those unhappy customers are just wrong for not being prepared to pay ferrari prices for a sports car.
 
In my opinion EU have too much of wrong type cuustomers.
All want invest and earn and nobody to pay for fun.

CLD was addvertised also as way to become citizen, to be part of upcoiming political system, to have possibility to claim land and build a house.

But as we are a bunch of "wrong Customers" ewerybody is looking on CLD ROI, prices and trends.

So we still miss "right type" of customers that are willing to pay to have fun, to pay to be citizens, to take part of mentioned political system, to claim own pice of land and pay to build a house.


Sharks go away, we need consumers...
 
Dan59 said:
In my opinion EU have too much of wrong type cuustomers.
All want invest and earn and nobody to pay for fun.

CLD was addvertised also as way to become citizen, to be part of upcoiming political system, to have possibility to claim land and build a house.

But as we are a bunch of "wrong Customers" ewerybody is looking on CLD ROI, prices and trends.

So we still miss "right type" of customers that are willing to pay to have fun, to pay to be citizens, to take part of mentioned political system, to claim own pice of land and pay to build a house.


Sharks go away, we need consumers...
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Still sitting on my CLD waiting for my Calypso passport and my housing plot...
 
RobBuona said:
They didn't "rebound." The ones manipulating the price have stopped, for now at least.


Currently +1276.99 for the lowest single.
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Who was manipulating the price and how were they doing it?
 
RobBuona said:
They didn't "rebound." The ones manipulating the price have stopped, for now at least.


Currently +1276.99 for the lowest single.
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I love the assertion that the price going down over the period of a couple weeks was manipulation, but the price rising back up in a day was just normal. There were MANY people selling cheap by the way, not just the ones on AH. It was easy to score CLD's on trade chat during the run down in price as well. Now the number being traded has dropped but the price gone up. More likely the rise is manipulation if either one is.
 
I'm not convinced there was manipulation. I did see a lot of panic selling and at the same time, I saw a lot of people buying. I bought some, and when I did, I bought the cheapest ones. People who came behind me also bought the cheapest ones available. Each time that repeats, the new lowest price is higher than before.

The next day, there was less than one page of CLD on auction.
 
HardWrath said:
I'm not convinced there was manipulation. I did see a lot of panic selling and at the same time, I saw a lot of people buying. I bought some, and when I did, I bought the cheapest ones. People who came behind me also bought the cheapest ones available. The next day, there was less than one page of CLD on auction.
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That's exactly what I am saying. There was no downward manipulation. I don't even think there is currently upward manipulation, but going by numbers, if there was manipulation in one direction or another, it was on the upswing, not the downswing as Rob claims.
 
FallenAngel said:
while i admire your patience with dealing with some people i do have a issue with a couple of your facts.
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You are right to question some of those things I said. I was not being serious with some of those comments. I was trying to be ironic by showing that instead of MA intentionally dropping weekly payouts, it was our fault, as customers.

Yes, there is truth that MA needs to make sure this Universe is one that encourages us to deposit (without simply relying on addiction). However, there is a huge difference between a company who simply isn't doing as good a job as we'd hope, vs. accusing them of intentionally driving away customers when some of the blame belongs on us.
 
HardWrath said:
I'm not convinced there was manipulation.
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When someone (a group) is buying for X and listing the same day later for X-50, and next day is buying for X-50 and listing for X-100, and on third day is buying again for X-150, you know what's going on.
 
Svarog said:
When someone (a group) is buying for X and listing the same day later for X-50, and next day is buying for X-50 and listing for X-100, and on third day is buying again for X-150, you know what's going on.
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So what you are saying is that people purposefully sold at a loss?

There are easier ways to manipulate markets in EU :laugh:

...and if the aim is to make ped, there are even easier ways to do that without manipulating anything.
 
HardWrath said:
So what you are saying is that people purposefully sold at a loss?
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In the end it's not a loss. You said you bought some cheap CLDs these days? So did I. If there were enough of cheap CLDs even for us, who weren't part of the scheme, imagine how many bought those who started all this. Now they're driving the price back up to sell what they've bought to free money for new schemes.
 
JohnCapital said:
You are right to question some of those things I said. I was not being serious with some of those comments. I was trying to be ironic by showing that instead of MA intentionally dropping weekly payouts, it was our fault, as customers.

Yes, there is truth that MA needs to make sure this Universe is one that encourages us to deposit (without simply relying on addiction). However, there is a huge difference between a company who simply isn't doing as good a job as we'd hope, vs. accusing them of intentionally driving away customers when some of the blame belongs on us.
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doh!
and i was thinking to myself these comments seem so out of character yet still i manage to put my foot in it :p
 
If you're intending to buy a lot of cld's then driving the average price down beforehand would make it cheaper although slightly underhanded.
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
acceptable recovery after last few weeks.....
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Meanwhile at MA HQ:

- ok guys , situation is critical. Level of players dissatisfaction reached RED on scale. Any ideas ?
- well....lets put out our secret weapon !
- which is ?
- lets boost CLD's payout for week or two so price stop decreasing !
- um....oh...ok [click,click,tap,tap] done....i set over 3 ped
- uffff, we have two months of peace now. Donut anyone ? :)
 
shoti said:
Meanwhile at MA HQ:

- ok guys , situation is critical. Level of players dissatisfaction reached RED on scale. Any ideas ?
- well....lets put out our secret weapon !
- which is ?
- lets boost CLD's payout for week or two so price stop decreasing !
- um....oh...ok [click,click,tap,tap] done....i set over 3 ped
- uffff, we have two months of peace now. Donut anyone ? :)
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This thead not about that, but... Im sure MA would love CLD drop to 500 ped each so they can buy it back and stop paying tax :D Dont foget that they got 6 000 000 USD and are paying from peds we loose each day. If CLD price drop below 1k - slow they can buy them back (again from peds we loose) and then they dont ened to pay all that tax any more :D
 
shoti said:
- lets boost CLD's payout for week or two so price stop decreasing
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High CLD prices aren't in their interest. Ideally, they'd like to see them low for the reason stated by Hulk, but I doubt they have free money to buy them back even at 500. But dropping prices still great for them - for instance, last week I made a nice unplanned depo to buy more CLDs while they were below 1150 for a short while, and surely some other people did the same.
 
I think MA doesn't care much what the CLD value is, as long as it's over 1000 and at least moderately stable. The CLD payouts don't really affect MA's margins.
 
Cerberis said:
This thead not about that, but... Im sure MA would love CLD drop to 500 ped each so they can buy it back and stop paying tax :D Dont foget that they got 6 000 000 USD and are paying from peds we loose each day. If CLD price drop below 1k - slow they can buy them back (again from peds we loose) and then they dont ened to pay all that tax any more :D
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Svarog said:
High CLD prices aren't in their interest. Ideally, they'd like to see them low for the reason stated by Hulk, but I doubt they have free money to buy them back even at 500. But dropping prices still great for them - for instance, last week I made a nice unplanned depo to buy more CLDs while they were below 1150 for a short while, and surely some other people did the same.
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hm...is that even possible. I mean MA buying back CLD's out of market ? You mean officially or silent reduction ?
 
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