Do you feel your overall loot returns have improved significantly?

[DoA]

90% of the people play the game because they dream of uber items and make some money and if its not possible anymore so mindark is loosing there customers.

And that is exactly the problem of the game.

The people that play this game with the goal of making some money can be further separated into two categories.

The first one is made of the people that are actually making said money and instead of paying their the share of EU operation costs, they're actually taking money out of the system, putting a bigger burden on the other players.

The second one is made of the people that are failing to make said money; they are just following the carrot for a while, 'till eventually, they realize that the reality greatly differs from their expectations (instead of making profits they end up losing a lot because they not only pay their own share of costs but also have to pay the share for the people in the previous category) and they quit.

Now, none of these players (neither the one representing the carrot, neither the ones chasing them) are healthy for the game in the long term. I think is obvious why.

The people that are actually healthy for the game (any game) are people that are actually loving said game, that are considering it their hobby/entertainment and that are willing to pay (a reasonable amount of money) for their hobby/entertainment. These are the people that would keep pumping money into the game indefinitely and not feel bad about it because they're not in here for the profits so not like they'll have their expectations broken. And it feels like this kind of people are the ones on which MA focuses - gamers, not gamblers or investors. And I applaud this.

 

[M Rufen Power]

And, again, the real problem lies in the text I marked with red... that's a GAME, where you're supposed to come to relax, have fun and get entertained, not "work hard" as you said it.

I find hunting relaxing, fun, entertaining when I am able to earn peds and not lose peds.

Otherwise there are games out there that provide a much better experience, cost/value.

I don't mind losing some peds in the short term, happens all the time, but long term no.

If me making the same smart/good choices are not being reciprocated then what to do?

I tell you nobody I know in-game has the capacity to go figure it out before it subsides.

 

[TheRock]

DPP 3.25 & no rep costs. TT return 95%

Think its time for a break until they fixed it.

Are u traying to say that those people who have under 95% should not even be playing as it is a disaster?

I'm using a "bad" eco gun With 54% and doing all ok in this Loot 2.0. Actually better than before ...
Actually, I dont care of loot, just want to tier my damn gun

It is all about the mob pick compare to ur gun. Imk2 on bhogs seems to be a bad thing with this new system., from what u say. Before would have been rocking good.

Also u aren't maxed and not sure if there is a little more loss "punishment" with this ...

 

[M Rufen Power]

The people that are actually healthy for the game (any game) are people that are actually loving said game, that are considering it their hobby/entertainment and that are willing to pay (a reasonable amount of money) for their hobby/entertainment. These are the people that would keep pumping money into the game indefinitely and not feel bad about it because they're not in here for the profits so not like they'll have their expectations broken. And it feels like this kind of people are the ones on which MA focuses. And I applaud this.

Again if you were here from earlier then you would know that this is not how MA have marketed the game to us early birds. It was always said that profiting from the many activities in-game was always its unique selling point, making your riches or fortune was firstly why I joined the game and others.

 

[morfoc]

I find hunting relaxing, fun, entertaining when I am able to earn peds and not lose peds.

Otherwise there are games out there that provide a much better experience, cost/value.

I don't mind losing some peds in the short term, happens all the time, but long term no.

If me making the same smart/good choices are not being reciprocated then what to do?

I tell you nobody I know in-game has the capacity to go figure it out before it subsides.

It is funny you allow yourself to criticize others and me because I tried 6 months of play without success with a deposit of 30kped + in addition to what I had already and you complain after a week and The fact of having to question your choices does not give envy is a little ridiculous re-reads a little all your comments on my choices, because in 2.0 I live like all the VU for 14 years
It's like those who are lucky enough to be helped by MA (directly or indirectly) and lose her no longer want to play once they have become lambda players like me

I wait for you at the turn it is well it happened quickly

 

[M Rufen Power]

Ridicule me all you want, you were still not playing correctly.

At least now you have the option of being aided by Loot 2:0.

 

[morfoc]

Ridicule me all you want, you were still not playing correctly.

At least now you have the option of being aided by Loot 2:0.

You ridicule yourself, I took the time (6month) to try several combinations so I wrote serenely.
You may have very little change in the first week and not so much hunting
and on the other hand you saw that your old method no works more and you do not like it. You are ridiculous
Will learn the game like everyone else, or maybe you do not feel like having the same sensations I've had lately

 

[DoA]

Again if you were here from earlier then you would know that this is not how MA have marketed the game to us early birds. It was always said that profiting from the many activities in-game was always its unique selling point, making your riches or fortune was firstly why I joined the game and others.

And that is all fine and dandy. The game was marketed like that, you had your fun, you had your profits so be merry for it.

But this was under no way a sustainable system in the long-term, more like a Ponzi scheme of sorts, where there was a need of a constant afflux of people coming from behind and covering the costs and profits of the "early birds".

And they're just trying to fix this... move the focus towards gamers (not gamblers or investors) and lowering the cost of play for the average player (that is willing to pay said cost) to an affordable level; now, since that cost reduction for them must come from somewhere and we're in a (sub)zero sum game, is obvious that it could only come from the people where were living on welfare and were not carrying their own weight in game (as in not bringing money into economy, not contributing to operative costs, but just leaking out of the system).

 

[Evey]

The people that are actually healthy for the game (any game) are people that are actually loving said game, that are considering it their hobby/entertainment and that are willing to pay (a reasonable amount of money) for their hobby/entertainment. These are the people that would keep pumping money into the game indefinitely and not feel bad about it because they're not in here for the profits so not like they'll have their expectations broken. And it feels like this kind of people are the ones on which MA focuses. And I applaud this.

You're somewhat right but also very wrong.

EU is not like other games, you cannot compare it with other games.
EU's main incentive is the RCE aspect.The fact that you put money into (and you can also get it back). The game allows you and encourages you to invest large amounts and by doing so you're becoming an investor with certain expectations.
If you were a more active hunter (not implying that your game style is wrong or anything - the game needs players of all categories) you would see that you need an incentive to keep pushing, keep skilling, you progress towards skill goals.
You said it yourself, you do not wish to progress in this game (which is fine) but this mindset is not healthy for the game either. The game is about skills, about progress, about gear, about getting better at everything you do, about increasing your efficiency. This should be obvious from the type of items that are released by the developer in the main events, the rings that are introduced etc. If those items are obsolete within months of releasing them, then there is no incentive to take part in the events, buy boxes and be very active in the game.

This is not just about the TT. Also about MU. You cannot hunt MU if the TT is this low. You're using badly in the end and you're loosing with good to great equipment. Amue's weapon is 65k ped (valued by players) but also over 90% efficiency. 95% tt return is a disaster for a grinder.

I agree that too much TT profit is a burden on others but this balance should be more dynamic and still reward the mindful ones and not reverse the two sides by punishing high eco hunters (with 95%) and reward bad eco hunters (95-102%) - this does not make any sense...
In my case, I can cycle 200-280k a month - 95% means a lot. After VU, lowering my DPP seems to give better results and when I hunt max dpp (3.23) I loose the most. Let me show you a graph based on my TT returns - the pause from the downfall of the new VU was when I switched to low eco (under 3)

The DPP model is still enforced by the efficiency rating added to the weapons and attachments so it's not broken. There's only one logical conclusion: the VU is bugged atm.

 

[Oracle]

Started off OK-ish on atrox youngs. Losses were 'live-able with' and no complaints.

Made the mistake of buying high damage L guns and moving to Feffox. Lots of globals at first then they dried up completely for about 5 brief forays on them.

I ought to have moved to a different mob but told myself 'the loot here is so bad it must mean I'm going to hof big!'.

But...I enjoyed playing again very much! Just the expense of my personal playing style that is likely to limit my game-time.

So, I've always been a 'fun first, eco second' hunter and unless I start hunting Kingfishers again non-stop then I probably won't get any meaningful stats.

I'm heartened that MA are at least trying something new on loot, even though they might not be there yet.

And I wish you all 'good loot' out there!

 

[Piotr]

people seem to misunderstand "optimal loot" and actual loot tt value... despite MA clarifying it...

To answer in ur own style: u seem to be too stupid to realise what ppl been reporting. MA also stated costs matter the most still. So mind telling me why 4 dpp guy has lower return than a guy with sub 3? As others been saying, its the worst thing MA could have done, forcing us to find n hunt few mobs if we want "optimal" loot (yes, fkin TT wise on contrary what MA said, cause MU is still almost nonexistant). I can no longer choose from 200+ mobs, its a big nerf.
If this system stays, im really curious about CLD returns after migra, many ppl said if migra will be same shit as 2.0 so far, they r gone (including myself with my 300k a month turnover)

 

[DoA]

EU is not like other games, you cannot compare it with other games. EU's main incentive is the RCE aspect.The fact that you put money into (and you can also get it back). The game allows you and encourages you to invest large amounts and by doing so you're becoming an investor with certain expectations.

It sure isn't, I agree with you here. But maybe it should be (and that's why I'm advocating for it). The RCE factor is kinda cool and I like it too, but I see it more in the lines of "ok, when/if I'll quite the game, I'll be able to chip out, sell whatever I have and recover *some* of the money I spent in the game and use them to finance the start of my next adventure" not like "I want to make a net profit out of game".

If you were a more active hunter (not implying that your game style is wrong or anything - the game needs players of all categories) you would see that you need an incentive to keep pushing, keep skilling, you progress towards skill goals. You said it yourself, you do not wish to progress in this game (which is fine) but this mindset is not healthy for the game either. The game is about skills, about progress, about gear, about getting better at everything you do, about increasing your efficiency.

Actually, for the game, I think that my playstyle is really healthy. I do make a (small) deposit every week, I spend that money in the game without feeling bad about it (quite the opposite) and I'm also having fun out of it so I'm motivated to be here for the long haul. From the very moment that I make my deposit I consider that I "spent", not "invested" said money and I don't expect any profit or return out of them, but just enough entertainment time out of them.

Also, it's not like I necessarily wouldn't want to progress. I sure do. Also, I sure have my own goals in the game. But I'm just having a realist approach at it - I know what my budget it and I'm adjusting my gameplay style and my goals to it, not overspend, not follow a carrot, not end up whining and crying. I simply keep my expectations at a reasonable level.

I agree that too much TT profit is a burden on others but this balance should be more dynamic and still reward the mindful ones and not reverse the two sides by punishing high eco hunters (with 95%) and reward bad eco hunters (95-102%) - this does not make any sense...

That indeed makes no sense, I really doubt it is like this (and I sure hope it isn't like this).

Eco hunters should still be ahead of uneco hunters. That is obvious. If anyone claims different I'll be the first one to call him an idiot.

I just say that they should not be *so much* ahead.

In my example, presuming that MA's share is 5% and the zero-sum game is centered around 95%, I think the variation based on skill, gear, playstyle, luck and everything else should be in the +/-5% variation range. So an smart, eco, optimized player should get anywhere between 95.01% and 99.99%, while the dumb, reckless, uneco player should get anywhere between 90.01% and 94.99%, just not above 100% or bellow 90%.

So eco players would still get a lot more entertainment value out of their money, heck they should even be able to break even or slightly profit via MU, but not on TT alone. At the same time, the other players would have a lower loss, they would feel less frustrated and they would be able to stick around much longer in the game because they could still get enough (though, obviously not as much as the smart players) entertainment value out of their money.

This is not just about the TT. Also about MU. You cannot hunt MU if the TT is this low. You're using badly in the end and you're loosing with good to great equipment. Amue's weapon is 65k ped (valued by players) but also over 90% efficiency. 95% tt return is a disaster for a grinder.

In my case, I can cycle 200-280k a month - 95% means a lot.

Well, maybe that's a problem too. I fail to see how this heavy grinding is helping the game.

And, in fact, I see said "grinding mode" (which some even named "hard working" earlier in this thread, which resulted even in people hiring other people to hunt on their avatars) as a side result of the fact that it was possible to make net profits out of your playtime... so if you could make x dollars per hour it kinda made sense to try to scale this up and why make only 2*x dollars for playing just two hours and not make 12*x hours for playing twelve hours. I hardly heard of any player grinding for hours because they find it entertaining; most that do that do it because of the profits (or the dream of said profits).

Now, by not being able to make a profit out of grinding anymore (and be well aware of that from the start), people would be less motivated to grind, but would probably only hunt as much as it actually feels fun and entertaining for them. This way, EU would stop feeling like a "job" and would start feeling like a "game" and I think that is the healthy approach.

So, instead of having some heavy grinders hunting nonstop 12 hours per day and some people not affording to hunt more than two hours per day, now everyone should afford to hunt somewhere around... dunno... let's say four hours per day... I find this much healthier and balanced for the game as a whole.

 

[UnaAlconbury]

Stop to believe that you are know the game and play a little because I do not see you much ingame , you talk about loot before and after 2.0 but has you hunt?
You are new is you want to give advice to the elders who have already gone through several steps, concentrate on what you do in the game .

DoA displays way better insight than a huge amount of longtime hunters around this forum, simply by using common sense. I am currently approaching level 95, got here on a 66 USD one-time deposit back in 2007 and I approve with a lot of what she is saying as of late. The cocky dismissals pointing to amount of years ingame are laughable.

I was one of many above 100% TT return for the last couple years in 1.0 due to my high DPP setup but I still very much welcome 2.0 since I believe slightly bridging the gap is essential for this game longterm. That being said, I am however not sure it is really functioning as intended as of yet from what I hear from other highend analytical hunters whose words and opinions I respect. And remember, MA has stated it is to be implemented in steps and if we feel something is wrong then something might actually be wrong and we should await the next patch.

But the general ideas of bridging the gap, trying to integrate crafting and mining again by pushing L weapon market towards BPs and having a system for loot quality are all great imo. General markup in loot already started to climb and from what I see it should continue upwards as well, I would suggest patience to let 2.0 get fully integrated and settled in.

 

[M Rufen Power]

Let me just put this into perspective.

Atomicstorm - Is considering leaving hunting profession or EU if things don't improve as MA stated. He may just be on the 100% TT returns but if things dive from there I can imagine him leaving without hesitation.

Ivi - Is seriously annoyed by this VU and is on Hiatus till this **** caused by MA gets fixed, cause too many high eco hunters are experiencing similar results which is very strange, while few eco hunters profit TT.

Sokolade - A serious up and coming hunter with high expectations for loot in this new VU, however results do not look great in hindsight and I can imagine if this July the results are similar or worse may leave too.

Evey - Uses non uber equipment and has kept an accurate track of returns prior and post VU Loot 2:0 and has seen a significate reduction in loot being returned post Loot 2:0 there go thinking the game is bugged.

I could keep on going with this, but these are the main hunters I can see are re-thinking their investments...

 

[Me Really Never]

To answer in ur own style: u seem to be too stupid to realise what ppl been reporting. MA also stated costs matter the most still. So mind telling me why 4 dpp guy has lower return than a guy with sub 3? As others been saying, its the worst thing MA could have done, forcing us to find n hunt few mobs if we want "optimal" loot (yes, fkin TT wise on contrary what MA said, cause MU is still almost nonexistant). I can no longer choose from 200+ mobs, its a big nerf.
If this system stays, im really curious about CLD returns after migra, many ppl said if migra will be same shit as 2.0 so far, they r gone (including myself with my 300k a month turnover)

werent you the one EST abusing on cyrene all the time? so not really 200 mobs to chose from right? u just had like 5 mobs u could hunt with it effectively. now thsoe 5 mobs dont work anymore like they did before and now you cry?
yes, i did see the lower returns on high dpp guys, and yes, i did read that cost to kill still is the most important factor.
you dont seem to be able to count 1 and 1 together so let me help you here:
most important IS NOT equal to ONLY factor. you do see the difference, do you? so you ignore all other factors, only focus on the most important one (that could mean its importance is just 51% and it would still count as the most important one) and then wonder why your returns arent the same as before?
stop making a fool out of you and try to use ur brain for once maybe. i know you like brainless grinding but maybe you have to adapt a little now...

 

[Evey]

It sure isn't, I agree with you here. But maybe it should be (and that's why I'm advocating for it). The RCE factor is kinda cool and I like it too, but I see it more in the lines of "ok, when/if I'll quite the game, I'll be able to chip out, sell whatever I have and recover *some* of the money I spent in the game and use them to finance the start of my next adventure" not like "I want to make a net profit out of game".

Doesn't make much sense. This game is up for ~15 years. Why would you advocating for it to change from the grounds? It would be another game, with another target audience etc. No one wants that. Only you, but the game would not survive if all the playing like you are at the moment - the game would die quickly. The cost to run is not just hosting... you know what I mean...

That indeed makes no sense, I really doubt it is like this (and I sure hope it isn't like this).

My case: 92% in ~70k ped cycle. 3.23 DPP

Well, maybe that's a problem too. I fail to see how this heavy grinding is helping the game.

That is your problem. Grinding fills the auction with stuff that casual players consume to play the game.... no everyone is swunting - again, not to say it's wrong or anything - but, no one would buy armors, weapons, mining stuff... there would be no need for new content from the developers, no need of new stuff. The game needs ALL players, the balancing of the stuff is the problem, not the actual grinding...

What you're advocating for is a game with monthly subscription or a tax per hour game. This is not what EU is or will ever be. Nor it should, no one would play it, even if you really really like this concept and makes sense to you

IMO we should stop debating and let others add their input about the past 2 weeks too.
I know your play style, I have nothing against it, but that doesn't mean it the only play style this game should have.

 

[Piotr]

werent you the one EST abusing on cyrene all the time? so not really 200 mobs to chose from right? u just had like 5 mobs u could hunt with it effectively. now thsoe 5 mobs dont work anymore like they did before and now you cry?
yes, i did see the lower returns on high dpp guys, and yes, i did read that cost to kill still is the most important factor.
you dont seem to be able to count 1 and 1 together so let me help you here:
most important IS NOT equal to ONLY factor. you do see the difference, do you? so you ignore all other factors, only focus on the most important one (that could mean its importance is just 51% and it would still count as the most important one) and then wonder why your returns arent the same as before?
stop making a fool out of you and try to use ur brain for once maybe. i know you like brainless grinding but maybe you have to adapt a little now...

There is huge investment behind that "brainless grinding". And that huge investment was gained by ingame knowledge, so I give u ur own advice, stop making a fool out of urself. Also about "EST abusement", all cyrene EST mobs have been nerfed more than 7 months ago its totally irrelevant to my current "outbreak". Ive been hunting ever since (up until 2.0). And u totally missing the point. I would have been fine a little lower return but not 15% lower that i was getting. And now I cant hunt mobs with actual MU in them because my dps is too big/low im too eco/uneco or whatevs stats that MA is forcing me out of those mobs. What factors do u think niblets "know" better or do better than the guy who has zero defcost healcost etc n highest dpp of all? Also eco paramater was told to matter 7% into loot calculation (which is almost directly derived from wep's dpp) and skills matter into loot. Also overkill was mentioned. NONE of these factors a niblet does*have better than Vodka... yet they get better returns. So care to share any useful (god forbid relevant info that actually makes sense?)

 

[Me Really Never]

There is huge investment behind that "brainless grinding". And that huge investment was gained by ingame knowledge, so I give u ur own advice, stop making a fool out of urself. Also about "EST abusement", all cyrene EST mobs have been nerfed more than 7 months ago its totally irrelevant to my current "outbreak". Ive been hunting ever since (up until 2.0). And u totally missing the point. I would have been fine a little lower return but not 15% lower that i was getting. And now I cant hunt mobs with actual MU in them because my dps is too big/low im too eco/uneco or whatevs stats that MA is forcing me out of those mobs. What factors do u think niblets "know" better or do better than the guy who has zero defcost healcost etc n highest dpp of all? Also eco paramater was told to matter 7% into loot calculation (which is almost directly derived from wep's dpp) and skills matter into loot. Also overkill was mentioned. NONE of these factors a niblet does*have better than Vodka... yet they get better returns. So care to share any useful (god forbid relevant info that actually makes sense?)

please elaborate where a big bankroll and buying the most expensive shit is pointing towards having superior game knowledge?
also if you read the patchnotes carefully youd know that skills dont factor into loot yet and is planned for future.
they also stated that armor decay as well as heal play a role in return calculation so maybe havign none of both might not be the best idea...
next thing is that they told that the eco parameter matters 7% in loot value, if its linear meaning that a 100% efficiency gun vs a 0% efficiency gun has 7% long term value more tt wise. now most people hunt at around 60% or higher and the ubers tend to be in the 80-90% so roughly a third ahead. a third of 7% is 2.33%. so thats the expected tt value difference long term. now check ur logs again for some 2 week intervals of your choice and check how high the difference between those is. 5% is an easy variance in most logs over 2 weeks. often over months.
next thing is: when loot 2.0 started it could be that it just had to get running return wise. if the pool is empty it cant pay out. perhaps it needs to be refilled again to pay out. like a new / empty slot mashine

and those are just a few things that need to be thought about

 

[DoA]

Doesn't make much sense. This game is up for ~15 years. Why would you advocating for it to change from the grounds? It would be another game, with another target audience etc. No one wants that. Only you, but the game would not survive if all the playing like you are at the moment - the game would die quickly. The cost to run is not just hosting... you know what I mean...

Well, I doubt that MA came with this loot 2.0 out of thin air, but I think it was their reaction to the simple fact that what it used to work was not working anymore...

I think we all observed that there are quite a few years since this game was living out of some whales that were pouring lots of money in the game following the carrot (skilling up, aiming to get to high level, high gear and start profiting). Well, by now most of those people either reached their goal and from (huge) net depositors transformed in net withdrawers or just run out of money and quit the chasing.

Also, I think we all agree that the game was really lacking in terms of new players attraction and retention (despite MA's continuous [declared] efforts in these directions); there was simply too big of a gap between the new players and the mid-level players since, as many pointed out in other threads, the mid-level is nowadays somewhere around level 70-80; the carrot which new players were expected to chase was simply too far and the costs of getting there were too big to be supportable.

So the "follow the carrot" approach simply stopped working, because some people already reached it, some people gave up chasing it and (almost) no new people were so naive to start a chase from so far behind.

And I'm not the only one saying that; other, more experienced and more invested people, said pretty much the same thing as I was saying first. For example:

That is exactly the situation we were in. Why do u think MA reacted with loot 2.0? I do not think this was a proactive measure but more a reactive one. You should take a look at AH pages to see how much activity has reduced, more so on calypso.

The most important part of that puzzle is maxed imk2 + buffed users. Can they still continue to beat the 100% tt returns over the long term. The more people who can do that, the more tt is being taken from everyone else's. In an ideal world everyone should make less then 100% but the person with the best gear and skills should make close enough (98% for example). The remaining 2% they should also need to work on getting the mu bit to be able to get to the green zone. The higher level mobs can have more mu to balance out or give a meaning to skilling up.

Fundamentally if EU wants to move out from being a niche players game to a more mass market one, they need to make the game more fun and less expensive as the average gamer cannot even come close to funding the game EU is as of now ( by funding here i mean both in terms of $'s and time). Currently they are providing employment to a few people ( some of who are permanent residents of the forum) and to be fair since there livelihood is being funded courtesy EU/MA, being a fanboy is the least they owe to EU/MA.

My case: 92% in ~70k ped cycle. 3.23 DPP

That is way too low even based on my standards, so I totally aggree and sympathize with you here.

And if, indeed, that is the case with everyone else at this level of efficiency, then indeed something is probably broken and needs to be fixed or adressed.

While I still stand strong with my stance that you should not be able to profit on TT alone, I totally agree that with this kind of setup you should be pretty damn close (while not still at) of breaking even.

That is your problem. Grinding fills the auction with stuff that casual players consume to play the game...

100 people grinding can fill the auction, but just as well 1,000 people playing casually can fill it; at the end of the day, the loot is proportional to the total number of hours (or PEDs if you want) spent in the game doing a certain action. I'm not advocating for less overall hunting, I advocate for said amount of hunting being more balanced spread across all participants (so not a few people affording to grind 16 hours per day and a few only affording 1 hour per day, but everyone affording to hunt for about four hours per day).

What you're advocating for is a game with monthly subscription or a tax per hour game. This is not what EU is or will ever be. Nor it should, no one would play it, even if you really really like this concept and makes sense to you

Definitely not a monthly subscription.

But yes, maybe a tax per hour or more exactly a tax per amount of spent money.

You get some entertainment for playing a game, you should pay for it.

More entertainment you gain, more you should pay for it.

Just like with any other entertainment option out there - if I want to go to the cinema and watch two movies instead of one, is only logical that I'll have to pay twice as much (well, maybe not exactly twice as much, I may get a discount on the second ticket and that is fine, but still more than for just one movie).



But Ok, sure, I agree, we can stop here.

 

[morfoc]

Let me just put this into perspective.

Atomicstorm - Is considering leaving hunting profession or EU if things don't improve as MA stated. He may just be on the 100% TT returns but if things dive from there I can imagine him leaving without hesitation.

Ivi - Is seriously annoyed by this VU and is on Hiatus till this **** caused by MA gets fixed, cause too many high eco hunters are experiencing similar results which is very strange, while few eco hunters profit TT.

Sokolade - A serious up and coming hunter with high expectations for loot in this new VU, however results do not look great in hindsight and I can imagine if this July the results are similar or worse may leave too.

Evey - Uses non uber equipment and has kept an accurate track of returns prior and post VU Loot 2:0 and has seen a significate reduction in loot being returned post Loot 2:0 there go thinking the game is bugged.

I could keep on going with this, but these are the main hunters I can see are re-thinking their investments...

You met the names that arrange you

If I reprint in real terms it will be rather
Atomic : does not profit much more and it will have to redeposit it has not envy or similar
Ivi: Similar
Sokolade: Ivi or Sokolade max not the impmk2 it seems to me no? Normal then returns
Evey: finished the profit mushrooms 1 / day can you comment his stuff compared to mine on the caperons?

You talk about the 2% who have an Impk2 that MA has specified that there will be some who will return on earth


I do not make profit in the 2.0 but I find it no worse than that before

 

[M Rufen Power]

I do not make profit in the 2.0 but I find it no worse than that before

Then you're simply beyond help even after all them VU notes from Dev's? Maybe I should start shouting "you are stupid" for not being able to piece together these notes with some time spent in-game hunting?

 

[atomicstorm]

Let me stop you from making further poor statements.

From a tt perspective, i profited little. In fact, many people did so much better because they uber or hof often. Most months i would only get around 2ktt in profit for 200 hours of work. But i did it because i could trust my gear and the system and so i played. My peds came from markup. I squeezed the hell out of every bit i could.. most of which though came from shrapnel and esis.

But now, i dont trust the system. If the idea is optimal loot to get better markup and not affect tt returns, they have failed. Super partial loots (<10% loots which wasnt possible before), broken item distributons on non caly planets (no ark weapons or few, little to no no hides, and little to no animal parts).

I welcome 2.0 if they dont force me into a box. If i have to hunt certain mobs and only those or pay 500% or 1000% for enhancers to some how to get to 98% or better then rip entropia. That style means they lied about the game being sandboxy.

There are certain things players will tolerate. Of them is not buying gear to only losing $100 a day as noted by 1 particular imk2 user and the reason foe this loss is what i mentioned earlier about getting 3 to 5% back instead of 10% min or better.

 

[Evey]

5% is an easy variance in most logs over 2 weeks. often over months.

Reading other people's logs does not equal with hunting experience. This is an issue with many voices on the forums. Reality versus expectations based on other people's experience... big difference here...

The old system, the DPP model, was known to everyone and it was working. It was a fact, in spite of many choosing to not believe in it (eco smecho debates) and they were not doing very well in long term and they were so stubborn that they got to a point to blame the items that were in game for many years (EST armors) because they were either expensive or did not fit to their taste in mobs...

Grinding on a 98.5% was nice, with eco above the average, because you were encouraged to hunt for markup and make a small profit there. Not it feels like the more eco, the higher the punishment - at least that's the case for most of the grinders I spoke with. There cannot possibly be just a couple of mobs spread in the galaxy that I have to find to match my exact setup; it's just ridiculous... I'll keep looking for now, but 5k ped is a big cost for 2 weeks and it doesn't make much sense.

 

[The Jetman]

Not it feels like the more eco, the higher the punishment - at least that's the case for most of the grinders I spoke with.

the more i read i wonder if the golden number is getting as close to 3 effective dpp (taking in regen and such) as possible. so if your killing a 2k hp mob with no regen you'll hit above the magic number therefore unoptimal, but if you kill something like ambulix with their decent regen you might find your 3.2dps been nearer to 3 and be optimal.

ofc this shouldn't affect the TT returns, but it does seem the highest eco players seem to have been hit harder

 

[krogfan]

Let me stop you from making further poor statements.

From a tt perspective, i profited little. In fact, many people did so much better because they uber or hof often. Most months i would only get around 2ktt in profit for 200 hours of work. But i did it because i could trust my gear and the system and so i played. My peds came from markup. I squeezed the hell out of every bit i could.. most of which though came from shrapnel and esis.

But now, i dont trust the system. If the idea is optimal loot to get better markup and not affect tt returns, they have failed. Super partial loots (<10% loots which wasnt possible before), broken item distributons on non caly planets (no ark weapons or few, little to no no hides, and little to no animal parts).

I welcome 2.0 if they dont force me into a box. If i have to hunt certain mobs and only those or pay 500% or 1000% for enhancers to some how to get to 98% or better then rip entropia. That style means they lied about the game being sandboxy.

There are certain things players will tolerate. Of them is not buying gear to only losing $100 a day as noted by 1 particular imk2 user and the reason foe this loss is what i mentioned earlier about getting 3 to 5% back instead of 10% min or better.

The new supersmall loots is a huge change IMO, nvm everything else sofar but the new lowest loot vs cost to kill feels very disencouraging and ofc painfull for returns.

 

[morfoc]

I just read the 5% of profitable people who complain , when I read atomic which says 2kpedtt profit month for 200h I do at least 300h and I'm at a loss since 2years
all because I did not want to buy the big Best of the equipment.
you are to complain about why? You have made money so you should have enough bankroll to hold until your next payback period.

 

[atomicstorm]

the more i read i wonder if the golden number is getting as close to 3 effective dpp (taking in regen and such) as possible. so if your killing a 2k hp mob with no regen you'll hit above the magic number therefore unoptimal, but if you kill something like ambulix with their decent regen you might find your 3.2dps been nearer to 3 and be optimal.

ofc this shouldn't affect the TT returns, but it does seem the highest eco players seem to have been hit harder

This game cannot be the price is right. Get as close to 3dpp without going over or your ped card dies. You can do whatever you want to item composition. But you cannot mess with tt returns of this magnitude.

There has to be hope of making a profit, otherwise there is no reason to invest or play. If you want fun, you go play the thousands of mmos that exist with far less stress.

 

[atomicstorm]

I just read the 5% of profitable people who complain , when I read atomic which says 2kpedtt profit month for 200h I do at least 300h and I'm at a loss since 2years
all because I did not want to buy the big Best of the equipment.
you are to complain about why? You have made money so you should have enough bankroll to hold until your next payback period.

Stupid statement. You dont do 300h or you are the worst hunter in the game. Your el history shows very poor results for putting 10h a day in the game.i have better things to do with my money than blow my 30k bankroll in a no win situation.

You not wanting to improve your situation with good gear (i dont have the best) is your own problem.

 

[morfoc]

Stupid statement. You dont do 300h or you are the worst hunter in the game. Your el history shows very poor results for putting 10h a day in the game.i have better things to do with my money than blow my 30k bankroll in a no win situation.

You not wanting to improve your situation with good gear (i dont have the best) is your own problem.

I speak on 1 month and this 300h in recent months
I'm sorry for you but I'm not against the fact that you make money
You can look at my history to see how MA gives me nothing but not see if I hunt or not

 

[CozMoDan]

the more i read i wonder if the golden number is getting as close to 3 effective dpp (taking in regen and such) as possible. so if your killing a 2k hp mob with no regen you'll hit above the magic number therefore unoptimal, but if you kill something like ambulix with their decent regen you might find your 3.2dps been nearer to 3 and be optimal.

ofc this shouldn't affect the TT returns, but it does seem the highest eco players seem to have been hit harder

With my most eco weapon and using an amp (eco 75.8) I'm at 3.102 according to EP and I can not get a global or a profit at all from medium atroxes on down.