does skills really matter in mining?

[Deity A]

Some miners swear by chipping out to stay on a certain low level; maybe there is some truth in there...
I cannot confirm this yet, but I tend to find some truth in this way of thinking...

 

[Trina Xenophage]

well it has as i said been proven that different finders up's or lowers the chance to get certain ores for the area. And as i said it's PROVEN by one of the best mining societies in the game. Go look at their forum and see the statistics.

As an example i'll give you a few numbers, the numbers i make up but it's just to show how it works.

The same area is mined with different finders.
finder a has a 45% chance to find lyst, 35% to find iron and 20% to find platinum
next finder with a deeper search has 30% for lyst, 45% iron and 25% chance to find platinum.

and so on. the numbers are not correct as i dont have the sheet here but it has been proven over some 1000 drops in the same area with different finders.

Again. more of the same, baffle em with bullshit..

The question was does skills matter in mining. Defending yourself by changing subjects does not work on the thinking public.

Skills allow you to use better gear more efficiantly. Nothing more nothing less.
The key word is efficiancy.. Just because MA says you can use X finder at X level of skill STILL does not in any way shape nor form mean you will be proficiant with it. you can use the 105 finder at a very low level..It in no way is effficiant at that level. It does not show its value till you break the 4k mark in prospecting and finally starts producing at a stable, calcuable rate.

the L finders God only knows when they become effective or IF they even do.
They have their place and purpose but in the long run they are too unstable to use constantly at least at my levels. (btw I will be level 39 prospector at any bomb now and am 30.5 surveyor so I DO have some knowlege of the profession other then regurgitating others philosophies and statistics.)

Should I donate the $1.50 for the coke now?

 

[Hijacker27]

Some miners swear by chipping out to stay on a certain low level; maybe there is some truth in there...
I cannot confirm this yet, but I tend to find some truth in this way of thinking...

Well this may be attributed to two things.

1. Mindark temporarily increases the loot of those that chip out skills, to entice them to stay, in case they were leaving.

2. People have more PED to spend after chipping out, and are more likely to blow it on risky endeavours (such as amping with something big)

 

[Moonbiter]

Only chance and your position upon the loot wave algorithm tucked deep deep inside MindArks servers?

Well, fact is that you will get 90-95% of tt input in any profession overtime. So luck plays no role here. Of course you might get to projected return sooner, or later, but is that really luck?

 

[DragoTPE]

there must be a bit more here as far as skills. some small percentage, a better chance here or there with perception etc....

with crafting, if you have a BP at 100- your chances are better. i do note that if the "skills" for a specific finder is maxxed, i get more success rates for that specific finder.

so all this is stating is that all you need is max skills for your finder, and you never need to upgrade. This doesn't make sense at all. why would anyone go for the 1200 depth deposit then?

My main thought is that skill must have some impact, but maybe it's not obvious.

 

[Hijacker27]

there must be a bit more here as far as skills. some small percentage, a better chance here or there with perception etc....

with crafting, if you have a BP at 100- your chances are better. i do note that if the "skills" for a specific finder is maxxed, i get more success rates for that specific finder.

so all this is stating is that all you need is max skills for your finder, and you never need to upgrade. This doesn't make sense at all. why would anyone go for the 1200 depth deposit then?

My main thought is that skill must have some impact, but maybe it's not obvious.

Skills allow you to use deeper finders efficiently, which provides you with the ability to find deeper claims, which are assumed to contain rarer ores, which usually sell for a higher markup, which can lead to a better profit margin, pending you manage to find any claims at all

 

[Legion]

qft....

What legion says is correct, it is a matter of matching finder to area.

well not really, the deeper u search the more rares OF the rares in that area you will get. But i guess ur words are sort of correct in a way also.

Again. more of the same, baffle em with bullshit..

The question was does skills matter in mining. Defending yourself by changing subjects does not work on the thinking public.

Skills allow you to use better gear more efficiantly. Nothing more nothing less.
The key word is efficiancy.. Just because MA says you can use X finder at X level of skill STILL does not in any way shape nor form mean you will be proficiant with it. you can use the 105 finder at a very low level..It in no way is effficiant at that level. It does not show its value till you break the 4k mark in prospecting and finally starts producing at a stable, calcuable rate.

the L finders God only knows when they become effective or IF they even do.
They have their place and purpose but in the long run they are too unstable to use constantly at least at my levels. (btw I will be level 39 prospector at any bomb now and am 30.5 surveyor so I DO have some knowlege of the profession other then regurgitating others philosophies and statistics.)

Should I donate the $1.50 for the coke now?

I'm not changing anything, i just replied to exactly what you said. with proof. And yes if you know where to go a finder with a bigger search depth is better because you will find more rare ores that sell at a higher markup. it's as simple as that. And any finder has the same efficiency, one finder doesnt find more claims than another do.

 

[seamaster]

Skills matter!

If beginner and myself would pull 100 "Poor" Claims I will go away with more stones. 100% sure. Skills like Mining and Drilling makes this happen.

Extraction raises number of stones from each pull.
A test like this is also easy to do. I will pull more stones in average from each pull then a beginner using the same tool.

/Seamaster

 

[Hijacker27]

Skills matter!

If beginner and myself would pull 100 "Poor" Claims I will go away with more stones. 100% sure. Skills like Mining and Drilling makes this happen.

Extraction raises number of stones from each pull.
A test like this is also easy to do. I will pull more stones in average from each pull then a beginner using the same tool.

/Seamaster

The size of the claim is the same.. beginners just have to use the extractor more times to get all the the ores/enmatter out of the claim.

 

[hojlund]

Skills matter!

If beginner and myself would pull 100 "Poor" Claims I will go away with more stones. 100% sure. Skills like Mining and Drilling makes this happen.

Extraction raises number of stones from each pull.
A test like this is also easy to do. I will pull more stones in average from each pull then a beginner using the same tool.

/Seamaster

ROFL welcome back to 2003 Seamaster

this one truly made me laugh not in a bad way..

 

[DragoTPE]

The size of the claim is the same.. beginners just have to use the extractor more times to get all the the ores/enmatter out of the claim.

that makes a difference by itself in decay. a beginner mines 5000 oil at an average of 20 per pull

250 total pulls

A miner a little better pulls 50 each pull.

100 total pulls.

There is decay, it is simple math depending on your finder, but that cuts into the profit portion.

Simple story, the skills make a difference here. other skills must make a difference as well. no one with their theories will not i suspect. the difference is there, and will remain "undocumented" for the age of Entropia

 

[seamaster]

ROFL welcome back to 2003 Seamaster

this one truly made me laugh not in a bad way..

This makes me curious.

Do you say I am wrong for both Mining/Drill and Extraction or just Mining/Drilling?

 

[Legion]

This makes me curious.

Do you say I am wrong for both Mining/Drill and Extraction or just Mining/Drilling?

do you mean you would get more ped's from each claim or the same amount of peds but just pull less?

 

[Moonbiter]

This makes me curious.

Do you say I am wrong for both Mining/Drill and Extraction or just Mining/Drilling?

Wrong on all. None of the extraction (all included) skills make you mine up more of resource. It was changed loooong ago.

 

[seamaster]

Wrong on all. None of the extraction (all included) skills make you mine up more of resource. It was changed loooong ago.

Oh. Well if that is so I am the first to accept this. Getting old.

/Seamaster

 

[Taz]

if this is a trend that has happened to many people many times before, then yes, does make you wonder. if you are trying to be funny you failed, you just showed your ignorance.

geesh, hate people who think they know it all, especilly when they know the least

No offence ... I hate such people too.
I was just trying to force you to think about what things you did before your global. I bet it was much more than chipping out.
Global is nothing uncommon, I get global at least twice a week.

When someone chip out and get something big and this happens in 75% and less ... then it is just a luck. I bet my life chipping out wont get you to hit something big.

IMHO skills (chipped, unchipped, natural ... or aquired in any way) does not effect the globals or hofs.

 

[kosmos]

Higher mining skills allow you to use higher level finders.

These finders 'tend' to allow you to find rarer ores, which sell for a higher markup than the usual ores you'll find with an of-105 or so.

Grats on the profit btw.

In regards to long term tt return, skills have zero effect. Skills only allow you to use deeper finders and faster extractors. (Which are not always better)

They both summed up my thoguhts on mining in general. Understanding what spawns where and with which finder is more important that worrying about skills. Anyone can hof or global. Thats been shown over the years I play. Look at the hoopla that is raised when a new player hits a tower or a casual miner.

kosmos

 

[seamaster]

This has been bugging me for some days.

What I said was that a beginner will not pull more stones then a veteran. I was KO on this.

BUT as we were talking about skills, unless maxed out extractor for both, I still have a higher eff. then a beginner so I pull more stones -> emptying the claim faster -> less decay - skill matters since I can use an extractor better then a newb. So you are saying they've changed this?

 

[Libby]

This has been bugging me for some days.

What I said was that a beginner will not pull more stones then a veteran. I was KO on this.

BUT as we were talking about skills, unless maxed out extractor for both, I still have a higher eff. then a beginner so I pull more stones -> emptying the claim faster -> less decay - skill matters since I can use an extractor better then a newb. So you are saying they've changed this?

if your saying, both the newbie and you are maxed on the digger, you will still pull more and less decay - then no thats not true at all.

If your stating the obvious and the newbie has 0 skills and a unmaxed digger vs your maxed, then yes.

thats how it works

 

[Tamn]

This threads fun to watch

 

[Spawn]

From the moment you hit cga, you start getting more rare finds, ores you have never found before etc.
Pedwise it doesnt matter, only markup wise. (because rare ores have higher mu)

 

[hojlund]

that makes a difference by itself in decay. a beginner mines 5000 oil at an average of 20 per pull

250 total pulls

A miner a little better pulls 50 each pull.

100 total pulls.

There is decay, it is simple math depending on your finder, but that cuts into the profit portion.

Simple story, the skills make a difference here. other skills must make a difference as well. no one with their theories will not i suspect. the difference is there, and will remain "undocumented" for the age of Entropia

This has been bugging me for some days.

What I said was that a beginner will not pull more stones then a veteran. I was KO on this.

BUT as we were talking about skills, unless maxed out extractor for both, I still have a higher eff. then a beginner so I pull more stones -> emptying the claim faster -> less decay - skill matters since I can use an extractor better then a newb. So you are saying they've changed this?

Well yes that would seem that way if an extractor had no limits on how much it pulls, but all extractors has a fixed pull limit, for eksample IMP extractor pulls max of ~90 stones if you are lvl 26 or lvl 80, true if you DONT max extractor you will pull less and making in less eco to use than a lower extractor(same principal and not maxing weapon)

After you max extractor it has a fixed decay and a fixed avarage pull.

In the old system an extractor would pull more stones if you had higher mining lvl, you could make more money cause a small claim had a base value in a certain amount of pulls so if you were skilled in mining you would pull 16-18 instead of 14 -16 ergo more value (TT or IMP extractor just had effect on decay pr. pull). Theese days claims has a fixed size the moment you find it, foreksample a small claim has a value of ~4 ped, so if you pull it with TT extractor you have a eff/pec on around ~10, and every one lvl 60 or lvl 5 has the same amount of ores pulled, at the same price.

So being lvl 60 just makes you more cool than the rest.. Unfortunatly it doesnt make you richer.


About CGA making you able to find more ores, there is a some truth to that, cause you are able to utilize deeper finders, and therefore you are able to reach the home of rarer ores. That CGA should directly making you find a certain % more rares, is highly unlikely...