I've been hunting a mob to get a specific loot item I aimed for. When hunting with let's say gun A with 65 efficiency I was getting around 1,8% of that item in total loot in the long run. Later on I switched to gun B with 54 efficiency but slightly better dps and now in the long run I get around 3,1% of that item in total loot. At the same time I haven't noticed huge drop in my average TT return which is strange. According to my calculations markup I get from getting more of this specific item will not only cover potential loss from switching to lower efficiency gun but will also help to cover more of the losses I am currently experiencing. To sum up, it is better for me to hunt that mob using gun with lower efficiency. Technically, form Loot 2.0 perspective it doesn't make sense but works. The question is: Why? Have you noticed something similar?
Explain this.
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atomicstorm
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Loot composition is a byproduct of dpp, not efficiency - when it applies. Increased DPS will let you hit the waves faster. Efficiency affects TT return to a "degree", not loot composition.
jwestonmoss
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Gotta say, i don't really understand how dpp affects loot comp. Efficiency ratings were supposed to be a rough mapping to dpp anyway. So why would efficiency not affect loot comp, if dpp affects loot comp? I think there's something missing in our understanding of what affects loot comp
Nick Seventia
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Read this, will explain everything
www.planetcalypsoforum.com
List of official statments pertaining to loot post 2.0
Since i've been getting questions in-game requesting sources for statements I've made it appears as though many players have missed these statements. Figured I´d save them in a post so I can just link this post instead of having to find the posts each time, as well as inform anyone on PCF who...
Ferial
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Great insightful post, but I think you came to the wrong conclusion.
I think a more accurate conclusion would be "The item that this mob drops has enough markup to warrant dropping efficiency for dps"
I am certain that there are plenty of mobs where results with the "worse" gun would match your expectations. I am also certain that your results would be better with a higher efficiency weapon with dps matching gun B
Droob
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If you view dpp as the cost to kill, then it's cheaper to get a loot event (mob kill) than something with lower dpp.
Therefore you are cycling less PED but looting more frequently, leading to more varied loot returns, without impacting the TT return.
miathan
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Based on how many kills?
If you just look at average TT return 100K kills is not enough to draw solid conclusions.
The expected difference in TT return between 65 and 55 is "only" about 0.7%.
Jhereg
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It gets even more complicated too with the rarer item drops that are rationed 
. Would need a fairly large sample to get a real trend.
The effect of DPP is very apparent though when you hunt for boxes by the way during mayhem.
. Would need a fairly large sample to get a real trend.The effect of DPP is very apparent though when you hunt for boxes by the way during mayhem.
Deemer
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Every mob has value. 100 HP mob = 100 pek. Therefore, the bet of the weapon mainly affects the final result.
When you find a suitable weapon for this mob, you can improve your end result with a better one (according to high statistics) or replace it with a lower weapon but attach to it AMP.
It is not the DPS that matters, but the cost of the weapons. With faster weapons, you will increase the number of kills per hour, but you would also have more losses at a lower rate. Let's not forget that there is a whip that does not have many attacks per minute!
The dynamics of the game affects not only our loss of TT, but also the composition of the loot during its various stages. Ie the dynamics are determined by mob return, and the choice of bet depends on us. Ie even a change in equivalent weapons, but at different attacks per min(DPS), you may have different values during different stages of the mobs.
Short and simple. If you kill a 1k mob with two weapons that have the same statistics, but different cost... for example 0.95 and 1 ped... in the end the difference of 1k kills will be 50 ped, and the difference in the loot will be those 50 ped.
As we focus on TT start and TT end calculations, they become unnecessarily complex. Also no one in the forum adds a dynamic rate variable to their calculations.
The balance of the weapon in relation to the mob is the most important factor, not just to attach additional elements without their need... just because they have a higher efficiency..
And in this case the DPP is reduced, which affects the composition of the loot... but from the composition of the loot comes the profit in the game.
The loot is also in groups. When you take loot from group B (let say common), it will be for the account of another item in this group. The irony here is that the MU is determined by AFK players who are not aware of the acquisition of the loot and therefore the MU of the more difficult to access items is in some cases lower or equal to the more easily accessible.
Therefore, it is not clear whether in your case you focused on more easily accessible loot that you accessed with a lower DPP or is a factor in all of the above.
When you find a suitable weapon for this mob, you can improve your end result with a better one (according to high statistics) or replace it with a lower weapon but attach to it AMP.
It is not the DPS that matters, but the cost of the weapons. With faster weapons, you will increase the number of kills per hour, but you would also have more losses at a lower rate. Let's not forget that there is a whip that does not have many attacks per minute!
The dynamics of the game affects not only our loss of TT, but also the composition of the loot during its various stages. Ie the dynamics are determined by mob return, and the choice of bet depends on us. Ie even a change in equivalent weapons, but at different attacks per min(DPS), you may have different values during different stages of the mobs.
Short and simple. If you kill a 1k mob with two weapons that have the same statistics, but different cost... for example 0.95 and 1 ped... in the end the difference of 1k kills will be 50 ped, and the difference in the loot will be those 50 ped.
As we focus on TT start and TT end calculations, they become unnecessarily complex. Also no one in the forum adds a dynamic rate variable to their calculations.
The balance of the weapon in relation to the mob is the most important factor, not just to attach additional elements without their need... just because they have a higher efficiency..
And in this case the DPP is reduced, which affects the composition of the loot... but from the composition of the loot comes the profit in the game.
The loot is also in groups. When you take loot from group B (let say common), it will be for the account of another item in this group. The irony here is that the MU is determined by AFK players who are not aware of the acquisition of the loot and therefore the MU of the more difficult to access items is in some cases lower or equal to the more easily accessible.
Therefore, it is not clear whether in your case you focused on more easily accessible loot that you accessed with a lower DPP or is a factor in all of the above.
Deemer
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A simple proof that the dynamics are decisive for TT return is the following.
Start with murders on mob 10 HP .. start 1 ped.
With a loss of 50 pek at the end, start hunting for 20 HP mob with 2 ped.
Etc......
That is, if you do not have any multiplication in one of these cases, just increase the HP and ped run * 2. The question is do you have balls to hunt up to 2-3 or 5k mob...
The idea is to play to a multiplication that would cover our loss.
And in this case, with normal multiplication (Global), you will get TT+.
In case you get 100%+ (after Global), start from the beginning. But if the multiplication does not cover your entire loss, return to the stage equivalent to your loss.
This gameplay is risky only when the dynamic rate is low for the whole planet, otherwise you will play for TT profit... which is a refutation that this is impossible.
I'm not saying that I play this way or that this is the way to play, I'm just saying it's possible because Dynamics is decisive in the game, not the mathematicians. And this simple example proves that all calculations are individual and they are usually based on the maximum loss of the individual player.
Whether a top player would start playing for 50-100 ped per day for TT winnings or play for more through MU loot is not the basis of this test... it simply proves that it is possible to play TT in individual cases that depend on from the current Dynamic Rates.
Start with murders on mob 10 HP .. start 1 ped.
With a loss of 50 pek at the end, start hunting for 20 HP mob with 2 ped.
Etc......
That is, if you do not have any multiplication in one of these cases, just increase the HP and ped run * 2. The question is do you have balls to hunt up to 2-3 or 5k mob...
The idea is to play to a multiplication that would cover our loss.
And in this case, with normal multiplication (Global), you will get TT+.
In case you get 100%+ (after Global), start from the beginning. But if the multiplication does not cover your entire loss, return to the stage equivalent to your loss.
This gameplay is risky only when the dynamic rate is low for the whole planet, otherwise you will play for TT profit... which is a refutation that this is impossible.
I'm not saying that I play this way or that this is the way to play, I'm just saying it's possible because Dynamics is decisive in the game, not the mathematicians. And this simple example proves that all calculations are individual and they are usually based on the maximum loss of the individual player.
Whether a top player would start playing for 50-100 ped per day for TT winnings or play for more through MU loot is not the basis of this test... it simply proves that it is possible to play TT in individual cases that depend on from the current Dynamic Rates.
kingofaces
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Especially for rare occurrences, 1.8 vs. 3.1% is often not going to be a statistically significant difference (i.e., any numerical differences you see are just chance rather than something causing a change). In statistics speak, events near 0% tend to have really wide confidence intervals compared to more common events.
D
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Efficiency is not the same as Damage/PEC but often go hand in hand.
You can see this easily on the wiki by looking at the Mayhem weapons who range in efficiency (TT returns) yet are all some of the top Damage/PEC (DPP ... Loot Composition).
DPP will give you better loot, as you're seeing.
EFF will give better TT returns but going from 60 to 50 won't make much difference in the short term.
There's also more at play, like Item Roll Chance and Cost Tweaking.
Theory is Item Roll Chance numbers are calculated by DPS ÷ Cost/Use.
Cost Tweaking is when you use multiple weapons, usually on the opposite end of the Efficiency spectrum to pump more cost into the mob for better chances at loot items with higher TT value. You'd need a smaller multiplier to get a higher TT item to drop.
Enjoy the rabbit hole.
You can see this easily on the wiki by looking at the Mayhem weapons who range in efficiency (TT returns) yet are all some of the top Damage/PEC (DPP ... Loot Composition).
DPP will give you better loot, as you're seeing.
EFF will give better TT returns but going from 60 to 50 won't make much difference in the short term.
There's also more at play, like Item Roll Chance and Cost Tweaking.
Theory is Item Roll Chance numbers are calculated by DPS ÷ Cost/Use.
Cost Tweaking is when you use multiple weapons, usually on the opposite end of the Efficiency spectrum to pump more cost into the mob for better chances at loot items with higher TT value. You'd need a smaller multiplier to get a higher TT item to drop.
Enjoy the rabbit hole.