Has anyone been banned yet?

[wobbledag]

Truth be told, you're 100% wrong.

Sweat has tt value?

 

[DoubleWolf]

Sweat has tt value?

Okay, sure, it has like a thousandth of a pec or something ridiculous like that. Not enough to where it's going to have an impact on the economy. For all intents and purposes it has no TT value...

 

[kosmos]

Okay, sure, it has like a thousandth of a pec or something ridiculous like that. Not enough to where it's going to have an impact on the economy. For all intents and purposes it has no TT value...

.001 ped

 

[BenCoyote]

Fruit is now worth more than sweat.

.001 ped

Now multiply that 1K by 100 and you made 1 PED. Multiply that by 100 fold and you have 100 PED. Multiply that by 100 again and you have 10000 PED. Multiply that again by 100 and you have a million PED (or about 10,000 dollars USD)

So then should the cheaters be allowed to siphon off even 1 ped worth just by using an exploit? I mean think about it.. that 1PED that is being siphoned off by a sweater is in fact anyone's PED (whether they Depo or not)

Also today I noted in PA that someone was buying sweat at .30/100 and fruit at .40/100. (So would you rather want 1K of sweat? Or 1K of Fruit?)

After all if Fruit has more value than sweat, I think I would rather spend days looking for fruit rather than sweating.

BenCoyote--

 

[Coop_]

.001 ped

.001 pec, or .00001 ped, or .000001 dollars US

 

[wizzszz]

Now multiply that 1K by 100 and you made 1 PED. Multiply that by 100 fold and you have 100 PED. Multiply that by 100 again and you have 10000 PED. Multiply that again by 100 and you have a million PED (or about 10,000 dollars USD)

So then should the cheaters be allowed to siphon off even 1 ped worth just by using an exploit? I mean think about it.. that 1PED that is being siphoned off by a sweater is in fact anyone's PED (whether they Depo or not)

Also today I noted in PA that someone was buying sweat at .30/100 and fruit at .40/100. (So would you rather want 1K of sweat? Or 1K of Fruit?)

After all if Fruit has more value than sweat, I think I would rather spend days looking for fruit rather than sweating.

BenCoyote--

Just FYI:

Vibrant sweat is 0.001 PEC per bottle.

(see entropedia)

And if you multiply that by 10 million, that's still only 100 PED - an amount that won't crash the economy...

And now i am so looking forward to your explanation WHY it should be multiplied a dozend of times by 100...


And on a sidenote - if those 100 PED are so damn harmful to the economy, i'll happily donate them to save teh universe!!!!

Always wanted to save the universe...

/Edit: And as far as i remember, fruits have always been worth more than sweat (market value)...

 

[AlphaGeek]

There's still the server resources and bandwidth these leeches use. That adds to the amount that MA has to pay for each legit user, and it also adds lag to the system as these unattended avatars take processing time on the servers away from legit players.

 

[Aandar]

I wonder when will people understand that it is not the lost sweat tt value that is destroying Mindark's vision of how EU should be like...

 

[wizzszz]

There's still the server resources and bandwidth these leeches use. That adds to the amount that MA has to pay for each legit user, and it also adds lag to the system as these unattended avatars take processing time on the servers away from legit players.

Care to define what's a "legit player"?

Sweating all day IS a possible way to play the game, innit?

Just the use of A/Cs isn't - which a lot of your so-called "legit players" do...

 

[Grrrrr]

I wonder when will people understand that it is not the lost sweat tt value that is destroying Mindark's vision of how EU should be like...

*ding**ding**ding*

Perfect post to sum up the situation...

+rep

 

[AlphaGeek]

Care to define what's a "legit player"?

Those not utilizing the server border exploit or other EULA violating techniques in order to accomplish their in-game activities.

 

[sledgehammer]

Those not utilizing the server border exploit or other EULA violating techniques in order to accomplish their in-game activities.

Other techniques i.e.: Alternate accounts, autoclickers, and other advanced cheating software.

 

[wizzszz]

Those not utilizing the server border exploit or other EULA violating techniques in order to accomplish their in-game activities.

So scammers = legit players??

According to the EULA, there are no scams, only people who trade items against 0.00 PED

And there is more: the EULA doesn't even mention "server borders", only "bug exploits" - who knows, server borders are maybe a feature?


Seriously, i can understand that this is maybe not fair for people who sweat their mobs "by hand", but this is the 2nd thread, meanwhile the 8th page on something as trivial as this...

oh wait... i accidentially read (morover, even posted in) the sweating subforum?

Wait, we have a sweating subforum on EF???

What for, ffs??

 

[Grrrrr]

So scammers = legit players??

According to the EULA, there are no scams, only people who trade items against 0.00 PED

And there is more: the EULA doesn't even mention "server borders", only "bug exploits" - who knows, server borders are maybe a feature?


Seriously, i can understand that this is maybe not fair for people who sweat their mobs "by hand", but this is the 2nd thread, meanwhile the 8th page on something as trivial as this...

oh wait... i accidentially read (morover, even posted in) the sweating subforum?

Wait, we have a sweating subforum on EF???

What for, ffs??

2009-06-12 14:27 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thanks for the screenshots. It is indeed an exploit. We can not comment on actions taken on other participants or on decisions made by management. This being said, if you suspect of someone using an autoclicker please give us the name of the Avatar to investigate further.

Thank you for your patience and participation in the Entropia Universe.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

 

[wizzszz]

2009-06-12 14:27 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thanks for the screenshots. It is indeed an exploit. We can not comment on actions taken on other participants or on decisions made by management. This being said, if you suspect of someone using an autoclicker please give us the name of the Avatar to investigate further.

Thank you for your patience and participation in the Entropia Universe.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

Fine, fine - it's an exploit (not that i had a doubt about it )

But why not leave it to MA now? We don't need players to take the law into their own hands, do we?

 

[kosmos]

.001 pec, or .00001 ped, or .000001 dollars US

Just FYI:

Vibrant sweat is 0.001 PEC per bottle.

ty for the correction.

 

[CyberPunk]

Why? Are you just trying to make people angry?

The people who you're seeing say "this is not a big deal" are simply hard headed and are refusing to accept the facts. For the most part, they've read it all before and just deny the facts so that they can "argue" the topic.

And there is more: the EULA doesn't even mention "server borders", only "bug exploits" - who knows, server borders are maybe a feature?

Fine, fine - it's an exploit (not that i had a doubt about it )

Why be ignorant and make invalid points?

I'm sorry, I just don't see what the point is to argue invalid points, especially when you already know you're wrong.

 

[wizzszz]

Why be ignorant and make invalid points?

I'm sorry, I just don't see what the point is to argue invalid points, especially when you already know you're wrong.

Dunno... the ignorance worked so well for you that i thought "ah, heck, give it a shot"...

There is a difference between "facts" and "assumptions", even if those assumptions are very likely correct - no surprise to me that you have trouble understanding that...


But as you appear to be in the mood trying to piss me off, simply answer that question: Who has to take action against exploiters, who's duty is that?

And if your answer somehow contains your own sorry ass, you should better not call me ignorant...

 

[Aandar]

simply answer that question: Who has to take action against exploiters, who's duty is that?

It is Mindarks duty.

But if Mindark does nothing...

Players have to do something.


Just like with scammers:

You file a support case and nothing happens for many hours because support is obviously underpayed and/or has not enough employees to do the job quickly, so it sometimes takes more than a day for them to even read the ticket.

What can you do to prevent the scammer from scamming another silly newbie ?
Shout a warning in the white channel !
= AN INSTANT PLAYER ACTION THAT MAKES EU A BETTER PLACE !

 

[LivingGod]

Sigh..

Ok folks.. enough is enough..


Everyone here can be agreed that Ma has been informed of this bug.. everyone can agree that they consider it an exploit.. and whether avatars continue using it is irrelevent.. even if Sledge and his folk will be out there cleaning the area.. as there are many more places..

I have even disiplined an initiate from my soc that happend to be out there without my knowledge (ty sledge) I will not accept that from my people even if I would profit greatly because of the greater abundance of sweat.. Maybe other should follow my example..

So either suck it up and spam the hell out of MA´s support and get it removed and fixed, or dont and continue sweating.. either way..

I will still be healing you.. I will still be focusing you.. and I will still be burning ME for you. And even though I dont buy sweat direct.. my price for sweat in trade remains the same and constant.. 5 ped per k

http://atlashaven.entropiaradio.com Live Dj´s bringing good music all over Calypso

Peace

David

You can only beat a dead horse so much and this one is pulp already.. try and save some GB on the server for some more constructive posts..

 

[wizzszz]

But if Mindark does nothing...

Players have to do something.

If i got that right, "MA does nothing" is your justification for taking action against the "exploiters" - correct?

Now would anyone please show me the support ticket reply stating "MA does nothing about it" - otherwise it's just one more assumption among the other assumptions in this thread...


And just FYI:
Your comparison to scamming is totally flawed, such things as "scammers" don't even exist from MAs point of view...

 

[sledgehammer]

And if your answer somehow contains your own sorry ass, you should better not call me ignorant...

According to the EULA, it is our responsibility to report any exploits, as well as those using them. We are also not supposed to use any exploits if we are aware of them.

Now, if it is a situation where we do not know if the actions by other players constitutes cheating, and it does not harm others' ability to play, then yes, our responsibility ends with a support case. The fact remains, however, that these players using the exploit ARE cheating, and their actions ARE hurting honest players. If you doubt this, go ask some of the folks in swamp camp, and nea's if they have seen their gameplay negatively affected by the exploiters.

Furthermore, MA and FPC encouage us to help our fellow players. We would not have the mentoring program (flawed though it is), or see FPC supporting the Entropia Tour Agency if this was not the case.

By inhibiting the exploiters' actions, we are helping the honest players who want to get their start in EU, not to mention ourselves, for my reasons previously stated in this thread.

So are we required by the EULA to take action? No, nor should we be, but are we encouraged to do so in the name of fair play, and as an assistance to our fellow players? I would put it to you to decide, but my own personal thoughts on the matter are that the answer is an emphatic yes.

 

[wizzszz]

So are we required by the EULA to take action? No, nor should we be, but are we encouraged to do so in the name of fair play, and as an assistance to our fellow players? I would put it to you to decide, but my own personal thoughts on the matter are that the answer is an emphatic yes.

And in what way is that "action" different to lynch law - what people do when they shoot the exploiters "endless sweat mobs" is technically nothing else but harassment - something that has lead to temp-bans before.

So, in the name of fair play, against who you want me to take action?

Against the exploiters? Or against the ones harassing?

 

[sledgehammer]

David, thank you for your comments on this situation. They are well appreciated.

With regards to the bandwidth this thread is taking up, the increased spamming of MA's support team was one of the larger purposes for my starting of the thread from the off.

The more this thread stays at the fore of conversation, the more people I see patroling the borders with me, and filing a continually larger volume of support cases against the cheaters.

If we catch a bit of flack, and some flaming for it (nowhere near as vicious and vitriolic as the cheaters when we show up to stop them), then that is a sacrifice that is made for the effort.

 

[sledgehammer]

And in what way is that "action" different to lynch law - what people do when they shoot the exploiters "endless sweat mobs" is technically nothing else but harassment - something that has lead to temp-bans before.

So, in the name of fair play, against who you want me to take action?

Against the exploiters? Or against the ones harassing?

Not so much a lynch mob as it is a citizen's arrest

Additionally, if you catch a criminal in rl, and stop him in the act, I believe he would say you had harrassed him. But would any of us even listen to the criminal? And in the end, who gets punished?

 

[wizzszz]

Not so much a lynch mob as it is a citizen's arrest

Citizens arrest is only allowed to hinder a suspect from getting away - the actions you suggested is by no means anything less than a lynch mob.

 

[wobbledag]

I hope MA doesn't fix it, or don't soon, at the moment it's keeping the curtain twitchers busy and feeling so proud of themselves
If MA take action I will be scared that they will move on and be crying to mommy that my clothes don't match and are offending their enjoyment of the planet's beauty

 

[sledgehammer]

Your clothes match just fine, wobble.

Now as to the lynch mob issue...again. The only EU equivalent would be if players actually had the ability to ban another player's account.

a citizen's arrest involves, as you said, detaining a criminal, but this also includes hindering the criminal from committing the crime until the authorities are given the proper time to respond and take appropriate action.

I think that describes the border patrol quite accurately.

 

[JohnCapital]

Ahh, the sweating exploit.

Couple points to consider.

• Sweat has a TT value of 0.001 peC, so 1k sweat = 1 pec TT value
• Before I started, sweat was selling @ 2 pec/bottle
• There was also a "sweat cap", meaning you could only sweat until you hit (IIRC) 200 sg skill
• When I started, sweat sold for 1.2 pec/bottle
• Shortly after that, the sweat cap was removed. Only MA knows the real reason why.
• Before the "trapped mob" fix, sweating trapped mobs was done for years, in multiple locations. However, those mobs finally ran dry, and had to be removed (thus spending decay.)
• The price of sweat is basically determined by the amount of mindforce users (mostly TP chip) vs amount of active sweat gatherers (not counting MFers who sweat their own supply)
• The amount of these two player bases have been constantly widening
• Street price for sweat has steadily declined over the years

• During all this time, every sweatable mob has had a limit on the amount of pulls you can get per mob before it "runs dry".
• Research has shown that # of pulls is in direct relation to the attributes of that mob. (Their Stamina IIRC).
• We also know that the sweat in a mob "recharges" when that mob is off everyone's radar. (Some folks have been able to exploit this fact too.)

This border exploit, in essence, does two things:

1. Reduces your chance of being attacked/killed to zero
2. removes the "per mob" sweat cap that's still in place

In short: Sweat price has dropped for other reasons than this exploit, however this exploit is still, by MA's own admission, an exploit, and simply one that they, at this time, have not dealt with.

However, based on historical experience, don't be surprised one day to find all the mobs in that area "run dry."

Bans I will guess are unlikely. Temp ban of one person just to make an example? Remote possibility, but I won't lay any peds on that bet.

 

[wizzszz]

Your clothes match just fine, wobble.

Now as to the lynch mob issue...again. The only EU equivalent would be if players actually had the ability to ban another player's account.

a citizen's arrest involves, as you said, detaining a criminal, but this also includes hindering the criminal from committing the crime until the authorities are given the proper time to respond and take appropriate action.

I think that describes the border patrol quite accurately.

The EU equivalent would be shooting the exploiters - which would be exactly what the self-proclaimed EU policemen would do if the location in question would be pvp-enabled.

And "hindering from committing the crime" is a very funny definition - it would require to read the suspects mind, wouldn't it?

But we get lost in details here - it's a matter of fact that the authorities (and only the authorities) have to enforce the law - everything else is just lynch justice.

Now if marco requests some help from players it would be a different story, but until then my stated view still stands: Players enforcing the law are nothing but a lynchmob.

So everyone should do whats appropriate in this case:
Report it to the authorities (a.k.a. MA) and back to your own business.
What the authorities decide to do and when they take action is solely up to them and NOYB.

There is no need for a citizens arrest ingame - what you think where the avatar might hide from MA? In SL?