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How Entropia Works (IMHO)

Tricity said:
ok, and how do traders fit into it? there are players who make 100's of peds per day trading (no joke) and withdraw heavily. i know that trade is based mainly on added value and tt is left unaffected but let's think about a situation when 50% of players start trading only? what do you think happens then?
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Quite simply, traders and resellers (yes, there is a difference) don't affect the loot at all.

If you notice my calculations, they are based on TT value only. MA doesn't worry about the market value of items, other then to make sure some items are powerful enough and rare enough to ensure folks have something to dream of having. (Who doesn't want that uber gun/fap/BP,ore finder, etc.?)

In fact, the concept of selling things for a profit was built right into the game and encouraged (via the rarity of certain key items.) While MA doesn't set market prices, they are always happy to watch things get a high markup, because this markup requires deposits.

When you realize this, you are close to realizing that the TT value of everything in game doesn't come anywhere close to the amount deposited. This is why someone like Pham can withdrawl so much and loot isn't tickled that much. Most of his money was made buy looting and selling high markup items. The TT value of all his loot was much, much, much lower.

So folks deposited to buy Pham's loot. (BlackHawk for example, depo'd big to buy his Mod Merc.) MA takes their cut, via eventual usage(decay) of the bought items, 10% skill and ESI nerfing, and withdraw fees. Pham withdraws what's left.

Everyone happy.
 
Sorry, I missed the part about with if 50% of Calypsians being full time traders.

We'll take mining as an example. Quite simply, if there aren't enough miners digging up resources, then the amount of materials will eventually dry up and become cheaper to mine yourself rather than buy.

Why do you think lyst doesn't sell for 150%? Simply because it's way too easy to get, and at that price, it's cheaper by far to mine it yourself. Thus, more folks will mine lyst and use it and/or sell it.

Watch what happens to narc, iron, gazz, etc. When the market price hits a particular point, you see a sudden rush of people trying to supply folks at that price. (which, btw is what helps drop the price ;))

So there is a natural supply/demand balance that becomes achieved. If there are too many traders/resellers for items that are fairly easy to get, they will just go get them themselves.

EU can't have 50% of players being full time traders. The supply/demand would be tossed off and some folks will just change jobs, supplying the traders instead of being one.
 
Just some more evidence that loot is tied to each specific mob.

Looting via taming - Why would this be done if loot's not tied to each mob? (This is just a recent example. There are many other taming globals chronicled here on EF)

Moogle's repeat global - I talked to him and he assures me (to the best of his memory) the 2 globals were exactly the same in both total amount and qty of each item. I.E. the exact same global from the exact same mob after a server roll-back.

Now as I said, this is about hunting loot only. I still believe mining and crafting loot are determined at the moment of bombing/probing/crafting. (Thus the delay)
 
im not sure those examples prove anything.

with the tame, the mob is considered killed/dead for the loot pool, so initiates exactly the same procedure as normal. tames normaly generate loot (or no loot message), why can they be globals? thus it proves absolutly nothing.

Moogles example is far more interesting and does raise interesting questions. it makes "random" loot allocation seem rather unlikly. but still does not prove mob carrying loot, as there are other possibilities. For example, it could be a simple queue of loots which was rolled back with the rest of the server. It was apparently a one off, although the conditions are difficult to reproduce.

A larger problem to this theory in general is loot lag, if the mob carries loot there is no need to make a call to the back end systems.
 
aridash said:
im not sure those examples prove anything.

with the tame, the mob is considered killed/dead for the loot pool, so initiates exactly the same procedure as normal. tames normaly generate loot (or no loot message), why can they be globals? thus it proves absolutly nothing.
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You missed my point. Why do tamed mobs loot? (whether 1 pec or global is irrelevant)

My thought process is this: If loot is generated when the mob dies, why are tamed mobs treated the same? Seems like the tamed mob itself would be your loot. (sellable and everything.)

Mobs also drowned or ran to turrets are also considered dead for the loot pool, but they aren't lootable. (Yes, I know the obvious difference)

aridash said:
A larger problem to this theory in general is loot lag, if the mob carries loot there is no need to make a call to the back end systems.
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Consider loot lag as not a lag of the loot calculation algorithm, but instead a delay in loot database querying.

Code: 
Select loot
where mob_id = 5487324851
and mob_status = dead
and lootable = yes

Much like your credit card request being delayed while paying for something during a very busy day. It's not an algorithm that's slowed up, but a database due to too many simultaneous requests.
 
Gratz on a great post mate, yes its long...but that's due to the detail.

I'm impressed that you've managed to put altogether into one single post, I've read most of it and think you might be on to something here atm (Mind Ark could always go and change it - but somehow I doubt it)

+rep and should be compulsory reading :)
 
why does the tamed mob loot? because its hp hits 0 and it costs somthing to remove HP, so the loot system just continues as normal. If the tamed mob is your "loot", then why should it give anything under the mob carrying theory and not just return the loot to the pool? im not saying is disproves the theory, im saying doesnt prove anything either way.

As for loot lag, why are you quering the database if the loot is being carried? it should instantly be passed to the client (if not already in the client when you see the mob, though thats risky). More importantly, why look up a non-looting mob to return a no loot? so if you are querying a database, you might as well caluculate a value while you are there too, which is a relatively simpler and trivial task.

i used to believe that mobs wandered around with a predetermined loot in them, i have long since decided this does not make sence, from many things pointed out to me and what ive seen with the loot lag is the most obvious evidence.
 
Yes... yes... yes... no... yes...
I think all is right in this post, except MAYBE one thing. IMHO, the loot is not predetermined by the mob, but by the time. As I am pretty sure anyone that has played for more than a day's worth of time has looked and said, "Hey, why do all these globals happen at the same time?" It's because this is the only way MA could make everything work.

HOLIDAY: The gifts are set to drop between Time One and Time Two. Proof: Last year, still being a noob to the holiday things, I got pretty angry when I didn't get my Chrstmas presents. The reason was, I hadn't logged on for a while, and I logged on about a week after Chrismas (maybe.) But this time, I got my gifts because I was on at the set period.

EVENT: During events, special items, and generally bigger loots, are looted. I notice this, because when a major MA sonsored event is being held, my loots get bigger even though I am not a contestant. The armax thing was a programming error. Let me put it this way: a multi-million space probe crashed into the surface of Mars as it tried to land. Why? In the programming, there was an apostraphe one space off. In the armax event, the date was set to the wrong place (for example, put 9 instead of 5.)

It also gives them a convienient way for them to make their average loot reports look better, it makes them able to say those who play longer make more or lose less.
 
Hhm, partially right, mate. Time is a major component, but only in regards to the number of players on at the moment. More players on, more decay being spent, more loot being scored, more globals... You see what I mean.

I've seen almost simultaneous argo globals from hunters I know for a fact were hunting two different areas. The Twin argo area, and the big argo LA. Watch long enough and you'll notice globals coming from locations and frequencies that destroy the time issue.

Lotta globals coming from Bristlehogs lately. Why? Because everyone and their aunt Tilly has been trying to loot grem shoes. Quite simply more is being spent on them so more is being looted.

When Hiryuu become the important mob, whether due to MAs action or some fad, watch what the most globals start coming from.

Also, globals are based on time? Explain mining amp globals please. Folks spam the global chat at will. You do know why and how, right?

Quite simply, they paid to achieve those globals. Those amps cost a buttload per click. Globals every few clicks (especially on condition) are the only way the system can return even a piddly amount back. And believe me, sometimes you lose 1,000s of peds on bad crafting runs, even with a nice long string of globals.

Guess they were just crafting at the wrong time. :rolleyes:
 
Well, enough research has been done. I can now admit I was 100% wrong. The hunting loot is generated upon looting, just like mining and crafting loot.
 
great reading and I agree to 99% of the first post. I think fruits spawns on different locations and if you walk near it you will see it. if you are in a hurry and are running to far away from it it will disapear, but if you go back it will show up again. I have tested this but I don't know if it goes away after some time or just when someone picks it up.
 
STYRM said:
great reading and I agree to 99% of the first post. I think fruits spawns on different locations and if you walk near it you will see it. if you are in a hurry and are running to far away from it it will disapear, but if you go back it will show up again. I have tested this but I don't know if it goes away after some time or just when someone picks it up.
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I have turned around for fruit after going after something that could kill me, but the fruit was gone. You must stay close, and simply put, might as well just pick it up. it does not take that long, lol!;)
 
MadMark said:
I have turned around for fruit after going after something that could kill me, but the fruit was gone. You must stay close, and simply put, might as well just pick it up. it does not take that long, lol!;)
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are you sure you went back to the exact location? I did the same and when I got around 1-2 meters away from it again it showed up
 
1. Always showed up again on location, when I returned to pick up...
2. Never found fruit/dung twice in same location...
3. Never see anything running...
 
Solaris said:
3. Never see anything running...
Click to expand...

same here.. I think you need to stop and stand still for a second or something. this apply to anything you can find, stones, fruit and dung
 
STYRM said:
are you sure you went back to the exact location? I did the same and when I got around 1-2 meters away from it again it showed up
Click to expand...

BOY, was I sure, lol. As soon as it got out of my "sight", it was gone...:dunno:
 
hmm, maybe it do go away after some time then...or maybe you were drunk :D
 
Great post, and the assosiation to the casino world is spot on (as a casino worker I know atleast how casinos work)
big +rep for you
 
Nice post nice that you took the time to sum it up.
 
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