Hunting Is Dead To Me

[JohnCapital]

Warning: Long post. Looooong.
Warning #2: Lotta stats and numbers.



Lately (meaning the past few years) I found myself doing almost all mining and barely any hunting (+ a little crafting). I like hunting, I do, but it always seemed my hunting runs were just ped sinks. So I decided to check some stats, and hoooo Bubba was I right.

Here's an example for the past 3 years, 2021 through today.

PERSONAL STATS (approx over this time frame)
Laser Hit - 65-71
Laser Dmg - 65-67
Evader - 40-43
Dodger - 30-35
Mining - ~40-56
Crafting - ~10-20ish
Overall Skill - ~314,000
Health - 200-223
You get the idea. Not a n00b, but not uber


TYPICAL WEAPONS (all maxed, except recent EP-41 runs)
EP-54 CDF (L) - LC-60 CDF (L)
L1200 CDF (L) - M83 CDF (L)
Philosopher's Sword
Z12
EWE EP-41 Military (7.*, 6.* on hit, dmg)
TT pistol
A106/A104/ZX
Ares Ring, Improved

TYPICAL ARMOR
Adj Pixie
Grem
Ghost
Martial (L)
5B/6A

TYPICAL FAPS
Refurbished H.E.A.R.T. Rank VI
Vivo UR125 (L)
EMT Kit Ek-2600
Regeneration Chip 6 (L)

This gear format allows me to hunt almost everything within my range, from 10 chirpy daily mission bonus runs, to level 40-ish mobs

TL/DR:
But it doesn't matter. None of it. Regardless of the equipment, planet, mob, how long the hunt...
From 2016 through today (time frame of my current spreadsheet) My hunts average only ~88% TT return
88% TT return. For the past 7+ years of hunting. My old spreadsheet showing 2011-2016 shows only 91.97% returns over that time frame. I have NO records going back over 10 years with over 92% medium-long term TT hunting returns, and nothing in the 90% range for many years.

So, why would I bother to hunt? Right, I don't. I mine almost exclusively. And these stats show it's not my imagination why I ended up in this play-style.


In depth stats
Let's start with 2021 and work our way forward. These number cover every hunt, regardless of length, planet, etc.
I removed some runs that involved both hunting and mining, because can't say which part of the loot came from which activity. Also, some numbers may be a tad off. The rare probe dropped by accident during a hunt, or single mob killed while mining, and those were missed as I skimmed my spreadsheet for the appropriate numbers for the activity, but the numbers are close enough.

Definitions:
Weapon = weapon, ammo, amps, sights, scope, enhancers
Defense = armor, fap, enhancers, decoys (yes, was skilling those too)
Other = tp chips, oil for vehicles, refiner
ALL stats are TT only, no markup is involved in these numbers


Year - 2021

HUNTING
Spent - 23,842.68
Loot - 21,055.07
% - 88.31%
Weapon - 22,918.99
Defense - 758.89
Other - 105.54
Runs - 69
Avg Spent/Run - 345.55
Avg Weapon/Run - 332.16
Avg Defense/Run - 11
Avg Other/Run - 1.53
Avg Weapon % - 96.13%
Avg Defense % - 3.18%
Avg Other % - 0.44%
TT+ Runs - 10
TT- Runs - 59
% TT+ Runs - 14.49%
% TT- Runs - 85.51%


1st observation: 88% returns, ugh.
2nd observation: If I could remove all defense TT and misc. TT spending (and if none of them contributed to returns at all) I can squeak up to a whopping 92% return. Whoopie. So I don't think I'm bleeding in those departments.
3rd observation: Not much spent per hunt on average. Maybe I was hunting too big for too short? (I'll show some numbers later, but spoiler: Grouping my hunts into big vs small, I still get avg 88% return)

Well, how do my TT returns compare to mining?

MINING
Spent - 202,600.60
Loot - 192,511.48
% - 95.02%
Runs - 177
Avg Spent/Run - 1,144.64
TT+ Runs - 34
TT- Runs - 143
% TT+ Runs - 19.21%
% TT- Runs - 80.79%

95% vs 88% Not even a close race. True, I spent way more ped. Maybe this is the factor?
So, what about crafting?

CRAFTING
Spent - 28,083.37
Loot - 25,613.62
% - 91.21%
Runs - 44
Avg Spent/Run - 638.26
TT+ Runs - 13
TT- Runs - 31
% TT+ Runs - 29.55%
% TT- Runs - 70.45%

I spent only 5k more ped over the year vs hunting, but still got better TT returns

So, let compare 2022. Spoiler, you'll see the same trend repeating.

Year - 2022

HUNTING
Spent - 17,151.50
Loot - 14,452.80
% - 84.27%
Weapon - 16,630.81
Defense - 463.63
Other - 43.28
Runs - 45
Avg Spent/Run - 381.14
Avg Weapon/Run - 369.57
Avg Defense/Run - 10.30
Avg Other/Run - 1
Avg Weapon % - 96.96%
Avg Defense % - 2.70%
Avg Other % - 0.26%
TT+ Runs - 22
TT- Runs - 23
% TT+ Runs - 48.89%
% TT- Runs - 51.11%


MINING
Spent - 106,366.17
Loot - 105,819.37
% - 99.49%
Runs - 99
Avg Spent/Run - 1,074.41
TT+ Runs - 31
TT- Runs - 68
% TT+ Runs - 31.31%
% TT- Runs - 68.69%


CRAFTING
Spent - 14,016.77
Loot - 13,209.64
% - 94.24
Runs - 35
Avg Spent/Run - 400.48
TT+ Runs - 8
TT- Runs - 27
% TT+ Runs - 22.86%
% TT- Runs - 77.14%

I spent less TT crafting than hunting and still got better returns.
But mining? Yep, I can live with that rate.

Year - 2023 Up to 11/2/23

HUNTING
Spent - 18,504.30
Loot - 16,538.48
% - 89.38%
Weapon - 17,983.80
Defense - 327.12
Other - 189.93
Runs - 58
Avg Spent/Run - 319.04
Avg Weapon/Run - 310.07
Avg Defense/Run - 5.64
Avg Other/Run - 3.27
Avg Weapon % - 97.19%
Avg Defense % - 1.77%
Avg Other % - 1.02%
TT+ Runs - 33
TT- Runs - 25
% TT+ Runs - 56.89%
% TT- Runs - 43.11%

Oddly, I got way more TT+ runs hunting then normal. Didn't help though.

MINING
Spent - 126,685.46
Loot - 125,130.46
% - 98.77%
Runs - 97
Avg Spent/Run - 1,306.04
TT+ Runs - 30
TT- Runs - 67
% TT+ Runs - 30.93%
% TT- Runs - 69.07%


CRAFTING
Spent - 21,323.91
Loot - 19,153.18
% - 89.82%
Runs - 61
Avg Spent/Run - 349.57
TT+ Runs - 10
TT- Runs - 51
% TT+ Runs - 16.39%
% TT- Runs - 83.61%

Close but this year, hunting was still bronze medal in the big 3 Entropia activities.


So, let's see if hunting big or small is the defining factor in my hunting

Hunts > 1kped spent 2021-2023 (mobs like atrox, spiders, rex, etc.)

Spent - 78,115.30
Loot - 67,975.77
% - 87.02%
Weapon - 75,608.73
Defense - 2,286.75
Other - 319.82
Runs - 59
Avg Spent/Run - 1,323.99
Avg Weapon/Run - 1,281.50
Avg Defense/Run - 38.76
Avg Other/Run - 5.42
Avg Weapon % - 96.79%
Avg Defense % - 2.93%
Avg Other % - 0.41%
TT+ Runs - 8
TT- Runs - 51
% TT+ Runs - 13.56%
% TT- Runs - 86.44%


Hunts < 1kped spent 2021-2023 (mobs like snable, merp, vixen, pappoo, etc.)

Spent - 42,793.30
Loot - 37,351.69
% - 87.28%
Weapon - 41,218.41
Defense - 1,125.06
Other - 209.74
Runs - 240
Avg Spent/Run - 178.31
Avg Weapon/Run - 171.74
Avg Defense/Run - 4.69
Avg Other/Run - 0.87
Avg Weapon % - 96.32%
Avg Defense % - 2.63%
Avg Other % - 0.49%
TT+ Runs - 57
TT- Runs - 183
% TT+ Runs - 23.75%
% TT- Runs - 76.25%

Small hunts and big hunts are almost exactly the same returns. Technically, small hunts give me better returns.


For fun, I even recently bought an EP-41 and did a few hunts with that. I'm not maxed on that like I am with pretty much every weapon I've been using the past 10 years.
Wanna guess the results?

Hunting Unmaxed EP-41 (7.x hit, 6.x dmg)

Spent - 11,583.52
Loot - 10,120.95
% - 87.37%
Weapon - 11,464.68
Defense - 69.96
Other - 48.89
Runs - 17
Avg Spent/Run - 681.38
Avg Weapon/Run - 674.39
Avg Defense/Run - 4.12
Avg Other/Run - 2.88
Avg Weapon % - 98.97%
Avg Defense % - 0.60%
Avg Other % - 0.42%
TT+ Runs - 3
TT- Runs - 14
% TT+ Runs - 17.65%
% TT- Runs - 82.35%

87% vs 88%. Clearly maxed or unmaxed means jack shit to my avatar.


ok fine, let's look at the past ~7years combined.

Overall Since 6/10/16

HUNTING
Spent - 212,820.07
Loot - 188,792.20
% - 88.71%
Runs - 1,014
Avg Spent/Run - 209.88
TT+ Runs - 243
TT- Runs - 771
% TT+ Runs - 23.96%
% TT- Runs - 76.04%


MINING
Spent - 591,404.51
Loot - 580,317.34
% - 98.13%
Runs - 718
Avg Spent/Run - 823.68
TT+ Runs - 215
TT- Runs - 503
% TT+ Runs - 29.94%
% TT- Runs - 70.06%


CRAFTING
Spent - 156,960.55
Loot - 141,952.80
% - 90.44
Runs - 491
Avg Spent/Run - 319.68
TT+ Runs - 76
TT- Runs - 415
% TT+ Runs - 15.47%
% TT- Runs - 84.53%



Fuck hunting.

 

[castanhas]

overall spent 961184
overral return 911961
overall tt return 94,78%

not amazing, ,but not terrible.

 

[castanhas]

i have more cycled with less % return

 

[The Great Adventurer]

It also matters what you're hunting and what you're crafting.

Just because you spent x amount doesn't mean you've killed enough for your returns to work themselves out.

If that was all done on Punys, I'd expect you'd have a higher return and your assumptions would be correct however if you spent it on Leviathans this could very well be the reality.

A quick rule of thumb is to only be killing mobs with 10x the HP it says on the weapon DPS. 100HP mob = 10DPS weapon. 1000HP mob = 100DPS weapon. Rule of thumb, not always the case but this will let you see your expected returns with less volatility.

Don't overlook the fact that your Looter Level is subpar and you're using subpar Efficiency weapons.

A quick way to calculate is:

TT return = 86 + (Looter Level * 0.7 / 10) + (EFF * 0.7 / 10)

Let's assume 35 Looter and 60% Efficiency.

86 + (35 * 0.7 / 10) + (60 * 0.7 / 10) = 92.65%

But this is always going up as you raise looter and/or efficiency, albeit slowly. It can never theoretically hit 100% returns over the long run as MindArk hasn't released a 100% EFF weapon and even then, you'd have had to be using it from Level 0 and have purchased enough Looter Skill implants to be Level 100 prior to even shooting a shot... and again, even then the natural swings would keep you slightly under 100%.

 

[JohnCapital]

overall spent 961184
overral return 911961
overall tt return 94,78%

not amazing, ,but not terrible.

Yep, over all, can't complain. But there's no getting around the fact that without hunting, my numbers are just way, way better.

i have more cycled with less % return

Consistently over the course of 7+ years?

 

[JohnCapital]

It also matters what you're hunting and what you're crafting.
...and again, even then the natural swings would keep you slightly under 100%.

I guess you didn't notice the part where I said this over the course of many, many years and regardless of looking at the results monthly, quarterly, yearly, big hunts, small hunts etc. there's nothing in my data that suggests a hunting style that keeps me in reach of 95% returns?

For the record, here's a list of what I hunted over the past 7 years.
Aetherex
Allo
Ambu
Araneatrox
Argo Cave
Ark Gold Rush
Arkadia Free-For-All
Armax Bull
Armax/Snarksnot
Atrax
Atrox
Atrox Hatchling
Aurli
Berries
Boar Piglets
Boorum Female
Bots On N00b Section
Bristehog
Calamusoids
Caperon
Caud/Merp
Cauda
Cauds
Chirpy
Cleanup At Ft Lahar Mission
Codex Hunt
Combibo
Cornundos
Cyrene Free-For-All
Dailies
Daily Missions
Daspletor
Dead Zone Mission
Diripi
Drill Bot
Droka
Drone
Drone Coordinator
Easter Mayhem
Enigma 3
Equus
Eviscerator
Exarosaurs
Faucervix
Feff
Feff Cave
Feran
Formicicada
Foul
Frescoquda
Fugabarba
Fungoid
Furor
Gibnib
Globster
Gokibusaki
Gradivore
Halix
Halloween Mayhem 6
Harbinger
Hispidus
Hogglo
Hogglo Diablos
Hunting
Ifn Basic Training
Igni
Jamraider
Jinn’S Minions
Jul Snarg
Kerbeors
Kreltin
L.A.R.A.
Letomie
Leviathan
Longtooth
Longu
Maff
Maff Punies
Marcimex
Mermoth
Merp
Merry Snarg
Mind Reavers
Minerbot
Molisk
Morsusilex
Mourner
Mulman
Mulman Clan Warlord
Neomex
Nexnecis
Next Island Free-For-All
Oratan Bandit & Halix
Oratan Prospector Bandit
Oratan Puny
Oratan Thug
Pappoo
Pluma
Prancer
Primordial Longu
Prot
Punies
Pupugi
Razortooth
Repesilex
Rextelum
Rippersnapper
Rocktropia Free-For-All
Ruby Rabbit Taming
Sabakuma
Scipulor
Scout Bot Xt
Shinkiba
Sicarius
Snable
Snarg
Snarksnot
Sonic Squid
Spider Bots
Summer Mayhem
Tab Tab
Taming
Tantillion
Tezlapod
Thorifoid
Thule Puny Mobs
Toulan Free-For-All
Traeskeron
Trip Puny
Trips
Trolls
Trooper
Turp
Vixens
Warriors

 

[True Juan]

Where to begin ... theres just too much one could write...

Low Effi
Low Looter
Low Turnover

A 300 ped run on Turps and 300 ped on Leviathan/Letomie/Longtooth is a huge swing. (DASPLETOR??? )

For high HP mobs mentioned above "A RUN" is like at least 2000 peds of ammo.
Many people do your year numbers in a WEEK, some in a DAY.

There are many good posts on this forum. Maybe start here:

Risk of Ruin - Bankroll Management

As I intend to share some aspects of my data collection in my Improved Mako FAL journey, I wanted to spin up a conversation that it seems that most people cannot comphrend on PCF.. and that is bankroll management. One aspect of bankroll management is how you use it in day to day operations...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

All I can say, I am not surprised by your numbers.

 

[Tei]

So, let's see if hunting big or small is the defining factor in my hunting

Hunts > 1kped spent 2021-2023 (mobs like atrox, spiders, rex, etc.)

Spent - 78,115.30
Loot - 67,975.77
% - 87.02%

IMO if you cycle 39k per year, you should not hunt medium mobs like Araneatrox and Rextelum.
Simply put your kill count on those is way to low to get to real average, so your returns will be always skewed either way depending on lucky few hofs/globals.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

I guess you didn't notice the part where I said this over the course of many, many years and regardless of looking at the results monthly, quarterly, yearly, big hunts, small hunts etc. there's nothing in my data that suggests a hunting style that keeps me in reach of 95% returns?

As the others have mentioned, the time you have been tracking matters not if you're not hunting the right things with sufficient turnover. You've hunted outside of your level for too much with far too small of a turnover for you to see expected results.

You should not have anything over 1k HP in your list save for events, shared loot and team hunts (with a couple other caveats).

Think of it this way, if you go to the casino with $100 and play the dollar slots, how long until you go broke vs if you played the penny slots? 100 spins vs 10,000 spins. You're more likely to find yourself at a decent % return on the penny slots with that many spins than on the dollar slots... BUT you could get lucky and hit the dollar slot jackpot and be wayyyyy ahead vs hitting the jackpot on the penny slots and only being moderately ahead. Do you understand? You've been gambling. There are times to up your bet but you don't do it at all times unless you have the bankroll to handle the big losses in order to wait for the big payday. Lots of EP/Shrapnel crafters know this.

For what it's worth, your diligent tracking is admirable.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

I can see you chose to hunt with a setup around 60% efficiency,

may I ask what your looter level is as well?








and i'd also like to ask where do you believe your expected TT return should be?

edit;

there's nothing in my data that suggests a hunting style that keeps me in reach of 95% returns?

95%? with ep41 and 50(taking a wild guess here) looter level?


that's.... optimistic.




Zho has an absolutely fantastic thread about looter level and efficiency, i highly recommend reading this thread if someone wants to look deeper into their hunting returns, there are some great reply's in here as well regarding mu and other things to help figure out how to make your hunting work

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

Best of luck

 

[Legends]

I think this is what MA has been trying desperately to fix for many years now. They know that most players will immediately be drawn to the hunting profession, and so they are trying to make hunting in Entropia a more sustainable profession, but it's difficult and it's complicated. MA can't pay people to play Entropia, so they have to make others pay, but who?

The newest attempt I have seen is locking up some mining gear (Ziplex P20 and Genesis Star Excavators TWEN) behind a Token trader, who's Tokens are only obtained through Hunting (afaik), so what's next? They'll probably release some new Crafting stuff the same way. So it seems MA is trying to get Miners to pitch in a little and finance Hunting and probably will do the same to Crafters someday soon, all in an attempt to make Hutning somehwat less financially painfull as a profession. But it seems to me that stuff is more likely to end up in the hands of ubers for them to profit off of. Should it or not is a complicated question to answer, most of them have invested a lot of money to get to where they are, but at some point, that mu has to get spread around a little better, I don't think Token traders is the silver bullet that MA seems to think it is.

I've been saying it for many years, they need to revive Land Plots. They could easily get Land Plot owners to subsidize the Hunting profession by just releasing 1 new building per year for Land Plot owners to build.

The other thing too, if mining continues to become more and more reliable and sustainable, I think we're going to see Hunters mine in order to finance their Hunting aspiration, just like now where you have many Hunters crafting to fund their Hunting. That's fine too and makes a lot of sense.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

I think this is what MA has been trying desperately to fix for many years now. They know that most players will immediately be drawn to the hunting profession, and so they are trying to make hunting in Entropia a more sustainable profession, but it's difficult and it's complicated. MA can't pay people to play Entropia, so they have to make others pay, but who?

It's just ignorance vs knowledge and gamblers vs investors.

The casuals who shoot big for short periods pay for the hardcore (pun intended) who shoot their level for long periods. It's as simple as that.

MindArk wants Hunting to be the main profession because that's the schtick for all games... Shoot things.

Anecdotally, I would say you need Hunting skills to go Mining because some of the best Mining is found in places guarded by things you need to Hunt (be it PVE or PVP). You need both of those skills in order to Craft your own gear and play the game with the CYCLE that was intended. The Auction is meant to supplement what you can't find Hunting and Mining to craft the Gear you use to Hunt and Mine. It's all connected but they could do a better balancing job with how they release Hunting and Mining gear and be doing it strictly via Blueprints so it's all crafted. Heck, I'd even like to see REPAIRS on Unlimited Gear require a Blueprint that needs Hunting and Mining LOOT to repair your item, instead of just pure peds. That way the entire economy is connected to the loot system in some way, as it is now, you can just TT your shit and repair or deposit and repair and that basically does nothing for the economy.... anyways...

 

[jambon]

Not quite sure what sort of response you're expecting here lol. Of course this whole game is funded be peoples losses in hunting.

People talk about gear, efficient, looter and all that crap like it really matters for the average player. It doesn't. Sure maybe it'll slow the bleed of your cash if you focus on all this stuff but there's no magic TT ped printing setup and nothing that guarantees rare loots. Unless you're playing at the highest end with a plan, it's just hoping to get lucky before you bust each time. And at a casino that's a sure fire way to ensure losses over time.

Really, the only ways to profit in hunting is:

• Just get crazy lucky to hit some big HoFs then cash out and never play again.
• Go ultra high end everything - have the highest skills, the best gear and the largest bankroll that you cycle 24/7. If you've got the most tickets to the lottery you're the most likely to win the prize (rare drops).
• If playing a high level, leverage your unmatched status to dominate events where the biggest wallet once again has the best odds to win the valuable prizes.
• Mastering the art of timing loot waves... Own a tool used by many where people are totally cool with their loot stats being uploaded to a server in real-time for your own exploitation, graphing and analytics. A loot tracker, screenshot grabber, global tracker or whatever is a great place to start. Give people access to 10% of it's potential for data analytics as a "thanks". Charge for access to an additional 5%, but make sure you (and maybe a few of your buddies) are the only ones with access to the full database. Everyone has generously donated their data but you should consider that you OWN it and should treat it as such. It floors me how many people think people offer those sorts of services for free out of the kindness of their hearts with no alterior motive. lol
• Go ultra low end exploiting all the noob bonus stuff MA has to offer and swunting punies. You'll profit but you'll make pennies.

Beyond that its all just a matter of slowing the bleed out hoping that the miracle hof makes you whole or plus some before you bust out.

Pretty sure Messi's strategy boils down to if he's got the best gear, the highest skills, the most time shooting and the largest cycle it's simply not possible for anyone to have a better chance than him to loot high markup stuff and thus profit. Sure, he can't loot everything but he doesn't have to loot everything, just more than the majority. And if you are literally the best, no one can be better than you (unless they get lucky from time to time but luck doesn't beat the math forever). And I think he eventually added in "owning a shop" as part of that equation after he realized the money being left on the table by not having a shop lol

But yeah, this game certainly isn't a matter of who's got better skills in pushing the F key. lol I wager that even I can push the F key as good as if not better than Messi lol.


Mining and crafting aren't much better...

Profitable crafting is all about securing the cheapest possible resources possible and owning the market on some blueprints that don't drop anymore for items in demand. Beyond that it's either gambling on condition or playing the "try to undercut the other 30 people selling this exact item and hope it sells before I get undercut and I lose my auction fee".

Profitable mining is all about knowing the basics of where valuable resources are to be found, having a high enough skill level and tool to actually find them. Which is pretty much available for free on mininglog. Timing the waves and securing a reliable way to unload your massive stock of less valuable resources at markup. Unfortunately this profession doesn't scale very well due to how little cycle there actually is on resources and the limits of the auction house.

*shrugs* Entropia isn't a charity.

 

[SoberPhil]

Interesting post. Do you think that some of that TT you lost in hunting might come back to you in mining?

 

[Cramen]

Interesting post. Do you think that some of that TT you lost in hunting might come back to you in mining?

wouldn't that fall under personal loot pool?

Charlie|MindArk said:
No, there still is no personal loot pool.

 

[The Mind]

Yep, over all, can't complain. But there's getting around the fact that without hunting, my numbers are just way, way better.


Consistently over the course of 7+ years?

Without hunting your numbers arent better.
As Castanhas said, your returns are 95% as expected except its distributed uneven between all looting events, and the cluster with most disadvantage is the one you put least consistency and achieved looting events.

 

[castanhas]

Yep, over all, can't complain. But there's getting around the fact that without hunting, my numbers are just way, way better.


Consistently over the course of 7+ years?

i have about 1.5 M cycled with 92% tt return,

 

[SSN]

i have about 1.5 M cycled with 92% tt return,

What is your gear effciency and looter lvl please ? for curiosity

 

[Cramen]

I mean its not all about that 1.5m ped cycled either, I mean 100k kills at 15ped a kill vs 3 ped a kill can be game changing.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

wouldn't that fall under personal loot pool?

Charlie|MindArk said:
No, there still is no personal loot pool.

Just something to think about but they never defined a "loot pool"...

 

[castanhas]

What is your gear effciency and looter lvl please ? for curiosity

Mining only .level 5 mostly , a few d class , but not even 1k dclass

 

[The Mind]

Mining only .level 5 mostly , a few d class , but not even 1k dclass

That sounds rough.
May i ask, do you include extracting costs into "TT in"?

 

[Ferial]

wouldn't that fall under personal loot pool?

No. For various reasons. But that is somewhat beyond the scope of this topic

Just something to think about but they never defined a "loot pool"...

Are we really going to have this discussion again? When MA first mentioned the concept of a personal lootpool it was in reference to the community. As such, the community defined what a personal lootpool is and MA replied "no, what you are describing is not a thing"

If you want to know more about the origin of the term, read dev notes 2. I think you can still find threads from back then. Good luck (if memory serves it was published summer 2012. Look at high traction threads prior to this to find out more, if you are really interested)

 

[castanhas]

That sounds rough.
May i ask, do you include extracting costs into "TT in"?

i do. but extraction ist even close to 3 %, I mean i wish it was lol.
But that wa my tt would be way over 100% ahah

 

[Evey]

Really, the only ways to profit in hunting is:

• Just get crazy lucky to hit some big HoFs then cash out and never play again.
• Go ultra high end everything - have the highest skills, the best gear and the largest bankroll that you cycle 24/7. If you've got the most tickets to the lottery you're the most likely to win the prize (rare drops).
• If playing a high level, leverage your unmatched status to dominate events where the biggest wallet once again has the best odds to win the valuable prizes.
• Mastering the art of timing loot waves... Own a tool used by many where people are totally cool with their loot stats being uploaded to a server in real-time for your own exploitation, graphing and analytics. A loot tracker, screenshot grabber, global tracker or whatever is a great place to start. Give people access to 10% of it's potential for data analytics as a "thanks". Charge for access to an additional 5%, but make sure you (and maybe a few of your buddies) are the only ones with access to the full database. Everyone has generously donated their data but you should consider that you OWN it and should treat it as such. It floors me how many people think people offer those sorts of services for free out of the kindness of their hearts with no alterior motive. lol
• Go ultra low end exploiting all the noob bonus stuff MA has to offer and swunting punies. You'll profit but you'll make pennies.

Beyond that its all just a matter of slowing the bleed out hoping that the miracle hof makes you whole or plus some before you bust out.

All of the above are pretty much wrong. Or personally I don't see them working for someone who aims for sustainability and maybe some profit in hunting. A lucky hit is only a bonus for a highly active player but maybe if you invest those money in your avatar further. The hardest part is to stay consistent and that is the key.

The problem in this case would be the focus on daily missions and it's one of the main issues MA has to fix for retention. A big part of the players engage in doing dailies but those dailies are very bad for people's balance. It's mostly short hunts, on bad mobs.

Doing dailies is a very expensive activity. When I learned that lesson and started focusing on MU, my game changed and I didn't reach 0 bankroll ever again. I started logging since then and the log shows over 98% tt for 8+ years. I'm thinking to publish that log as well

 

[wizz]

Just because you spent x amount doesn't mean you've killed enough for your returns to work themselves out.

The usual BS reaction.
You didn't cycle enough.

 

[The Mind]

i do. but extraction ist even close to 3 %, I mean i wish it was lol.
But that wa my tt would be way over 100% ahah

My extraction costs, unamped and with TT extractor, are 0.7% vs "TT in". If you use anything more potent + enhancer, we might be looking at another 1% or maybe even higher. Still not 3% tho.

 

[RT_Tony]

I started logging since then and the log shows over 98% tt for 8+ years. I'm thinking to publish that log as well

i for one would love that

 

[Sulje]

wouldn't that fall under personal loot pool?

Charlie|MindArk said:
No, there still is no personal loot pool.

and there are no waves

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

The thing is you can have something that exhibits a behaviour similar to a loot pool without having a loot pool.