kosta, the PVP4 peacemaker

[Redfrog]

You forgot one aspect of this thread: Some believe that you can deduce a persons entire character, integrity and style of play from how that person conducts himself in PVP.

I think that some people have probably gone a little over the top, or exaggerated to make a point, in saying that. Or maybe replied in the heat of the moment rather than taking time to consider their reply.

And some even believe that those who do not agree with those views are themselves flawed individuals.

I can only say that, if you believe that your own moral code is correct, then you must follow it to the letter, whether you come out of it ahead or behind. So you either acknowledge your code to be flawed or consider others to be flawed. Otherwise it's not a moral code but a method of gaining an advantage over another.
Meaning "you" in the general sense that is, not you personally

I believe that the way a person acts in one situation can give an insight into how they might act in other situations.

I agree that the motivation behind an individual's actions will remain the same and is an indication of the type of person that they are.

 

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by dbelinfante
You forgot one aspect of this thread: Some believe that you can deduce a persons entire character, integrity and style of play from how that person conducts himself in PVP.

I think that some people have probably gone a little over the top, or exaggerated to make a point, in saying that. Or maybe replied in the heat of the moment rather than taking time to consider their reply.

I admit it. I have judged juried and executioner-ed the a-holes who shot me in pvp while i was hunting chompers with some friends. That kind of pvping is worthy of grim death. From me.

Of course, the chompr old had eaten the rest of my crew, sloshing around in the acid lake of a stomach. At 5% I finished him off, looted, and it seemd these nubs (one of who carried a h21 scrof or better) thought they desrved the loot "omg pls die!". Well I did, getting one hit in after realising i was being shot, and revived. Of course reporting this to my teammates. Needless to say, the two naked nubs on ice revived near me even before I had finished charging my minor TP.

No. I don't think i will repect them. ever. Do I think they are horrible people in real life? Absolutely. Too bad for them.

 

[dbelinfante]

I believe that the way a person acts in one situation can give an insight into how they might act in other situations.

Yep. "Might" being the key word here.

 

[dbelinfante]

Well, we are *all* flawed individuals.
...
And yes, I also believe Redfrog has a better finger on this than some -- it's not about judging his actions overall from his actions in isolation, it's about realizing his priorities in attaining desired items. Some people would outright steal, some would scam, some would lie, and some have honor.

We all lie. And many of us still have honor.
"his priorities in attaining desired items"? Wtf? You are venturing into the abstract a bit too far me thinks.

 

[dbelinfante]

I admit it. I have judged juried and executioner-ed the a-holes who shot me in pvp while i was hunting chompers with some friends. That kind of pvping is worthy of grim death. From me.

Of course, the chompr old had eaten the rest of my crew, sloshing around in the acid lake of a stomach. At 5% I finished him off, looted, and it seemd these nubs (one of who carried a h21 scrof or better) thought they desrved the loot "omg pls die!". Well I did, getting one hit in after realising i was being shot, and revived. Of course reporting this to my teammates. Needless to say, the two naked nubs on ice revived near me even before I had finished charging my minor TP.

No. I don't think i will repect them. ever. Do I think they are horrible people in real life? Absolutely. Too bad for them.

Very interesting and moving, but totally irrelevant. Chomper territory (Segna?) is not lootable pvp, and killstealing is another matter entirely.

 

[Tree-doctor]

Who can make me a resume of the storry please, then i will be able to defend my friend dbel.

 

[P-J]

We all lie. And many of us still have honor.

We all break wind . And many of us still have honor.

We all eat, and many of us still have honor.

We are all human ... , and many of still have honor.

How the hell can you try to link these two statements together? How about:

We aren't all sneaky, lying, backstabbing, menditious little sods who haven't got the balls, skill or ability to take on players in a clean fight, and many of us have honor.

Nah these noob players who wait until you are mid battle with a mob and then attack you or pretend to be friendly then shoot you in the back are players without any understanding or knowledge of what the concept of honour means.

 

[dbelinfante]

We all lie. And many of us still have honor.

We all break wind . And many of us still have honor.

We all eat, and many of us still have honor.

We are all human ... , and many of still have honor.

How the hell can you try to link these two statements together? How about:

It was Traf who made this an either/or, not me.

We aren't all sneaky, lying, backstabbing, menditious little sods who haven't got the balls, skill or ability to take on players in a clean fight, and many of us have honor.

Nah these noob players who wait until you are mid battle with a mob and then attack you or pretend to be friendly then shoot you in the back are players without any understanding or knowledge of what the concept of honour means.

Sorry to disappoint you, but in pvp3/4, there is no honor at all in that respect: If you are fighting some heavy mob, another player WILL shoot you in the back if he gets the chance, uber, noob or anything in between.

 

[P-J]

It was Traf who made this an either/or, not me.


Sorry to disappoint you, but in pvp3/4, there is no honor at all in that respect: If you are fighting some heavy mob, another player WILL shoot you in the back if he gets the chance, uber, noob or anything in between.

Ok - Traf - explain your noobish statements please - caus they really stick out as complete and absolute nonsense.

Hmm honor in that respect...equally daft statement (sorry about being so robust - I haven't had my morning fix of coffee). You either are honourable in your actions or not honourable - black or white - no shades of grey.

Not 'today I will start my morning by screwing over some poor noobish person mining by saying hi, I just want to chat then killing the poor sod... then in the afternoon give some peds to the poor in PA to restore my honour'. Does this person restore his honour...Let me think for 30 secs - hmmm sounds like a complete an utter 'dishonourable person to me'.

BTW the default position in PvP3/4 is don't trust anyone - so I am not disapointed when someone attacks me.

I am, however, disapointed in the wooly thinking and hypocracy in this thread

Ok off to get some coffee

 

[dbelinfante]

Ok off to get some coffee

Hope you feel better soon. I know I always do!

 

[Germanicus]

After so many posts ppl deserve a little break, so here it is, I hope Kosta doesn't mind, it was gr8 fun and I hope we can do that again .
He was after me in pvp, so I gave him a good run around the rock . It took several minutes until Kosta got me and a few minutes after I lost count of laps... and did I mention I had nothing that could be looted .

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

 

[DanielleYourMom]

Sorry to disappoint you, but in pvp3/4, there is no honor at all in that respect: If you are fighting some heavy mob, another player WILL shoot you in the back if he gets the chance, uber, noob or anything in between.

... except the ones who wouldn't

I've been in lootable and non lootable PvP several times .. getting my ass kicked by one mob or another.
Not once has a green dot on my radar took that slimy, cowardous opportunity to shoot me in the back when I was at diminished health.

I guess that goes to show that some people do have honor in pvp 3 & 4

*and nice pic, germanicus *

 

[Elroy Harvey]

Wow ive just sat here and read all of this thread and its twisted my mind lol, Ok this is my take on this...

PE is a "mmoRPG" notice those last 3 letters Role Playing Game, IMO Kosta has chosen to play a baddy simple as that, just like in RL you have good guys and bad guys and Kosta has chosen to play a bad guy in this game and thats what it is... a game, I see nothing wrong whatsoever in what Kosta did its all part of the fun and i think it actually makes it more exciting, personally i find it hard to believe that anyone would fall for such a tactic but it worked so well done mate. I cant believe that people can say that this makes Kosta untrustworthy or even a liar in RL he is just playing the role of Kosta in this "Virtual World" .

Im not saying that I would use such a tactic as i prefer to play more like myself in RL as a good guy but at the end of the day thats my choice to make and if Kosta wants to Roleplay and play a baddy then he is doing absolutely nothing wrong just playing the game the way he wants to.

I apologise if ive not really managed to put into words what im trying to say very well but ive had a shit day at work, very tired and had a couple of beers lol.

Thnx Elroy

 

[dbelinfante]

... except the ones who wouldn't

I've been in lootable and non lootable PvP several times .. getting my ass kicked by one mob or another.
Not once has a green dot on my radar took that slimy, cowardous opportunity to shoot me in the back when I was at diminished health.

I guess that goes to show that some people do have honor in pvp 3 & 4

*and nice pic, germanicus *

That shows nothing. It is called anecdotal evidence, and I am willing to bet you anything that the vast majority of players will admit to shooting on sight any player they think is worth shooting/looting. They will also expect anyone else to do the same.

You do not have a monopoly on honor, or on the understanding of the concept of honor. Get off your high horse.

 

[Traf Rellik]

Ok - Traf - explain your noobish statements please - caus they really stick out as complete and absolute nonsense.

Hmm honor in that respect...equally daft statement (sorry about being so robust - I haven't had my morning fix of coffee). You either are honourable in your actions or not honourable - black or white - no shades of grey.

Not 'today I will start my morning by screwing over some poor noobish person mining by saying hi, I just want to chat then killing the poor sod... then in the afternoon give some peds to the poor in PA to restore my honour'. Does this person restore his honour...Let me think for 30 secs - hmmm sounds like a complete an utter 'dishonourable person to me'.

BTW the default position in PvP3/4 is don't trust anyone - so I am not disapointed when someone attacks me.

I am, however, disapointed in the wooly thinking and hypocracy in this thread

Ok off to get some coffee

Simple point: you called dbelinfante to task for her response to my statement, and she took my words out of context and twisted them to MAKE it noobish. It's not my fault that she can't interpret my statement properly and quoted it out of context. Taking her word on it without looking at the original statement was the noobish act, IMHO. I'm fairly sure you made her day, even.

My original statement:

And yes, I also believe Redfrog has a better finger on this than some -- it's not about judging his actions overall from his actions in isolation, it's about realizing his priorities in attaining desired items. Some people would outright steal, some would scam, some would lie, and some have honor.

If you still think it's a noobish statement in context, enlighten me as to why. Perhaps I could just simplify it for those that can not or will not bother to understand it -- honor implies that you conduct yourself without stealing, scamming, or lying TO GET AHEAD.

As for role playing -- I agree 100%. I've never said a single thing about the person that plays kosta. I've referred to what kosta does in game, his ava, his personality, his tactics. A person playing an evil or unlawful character will enjoy keeping that character consistent. That's a part of role playing too, it's not what the person would do, it's what the character would do. I may even like the person that plays Kosta -- who knows -- I've never met him.

Bottom line: if it's easier to defend your position by changing what you think mine is, then perhaps there is something wrong with your position?

 

[Traf Rellik]

That shows nothing. It is called anecdotal evidence, and I am willing to bet you anything that the vast majority of players will admit to shooting on sight any player they think is worth shooting/looting. They will also expect anyone else to do the same.

You do not have a monopoly on honor, or on the understanding of the concept of honor. Get off your high horse.

This so misses the point...

You focus so much on the act of killing and looting in pvp4. Let's address this first. Yes, I fully expect everyone to do this. I have no problem with it. I encourage it. Go do it now, please, everyone.

However, I don't expect all players would lie while doing it. The ones that do will not have my trust. Naturally, I'll be distrustful in either case if I'm in PvP4, so it's not a big concern -- only a matter of philosophical interest. The issue is that should they lie in PvP4, they are also LIKELY to lie in other situations, and hence, even when they are NOT in PvP4, I will not likely trust them. Yes, the word "likely" plays a big part here. Predisposition is based on knowledge of prior acts. Kosta is known to lie for his personal gain, hence, he is more likely to lie in OTHER situations that offer him personal gain.

Do I equate this with lies about upgrading armor to steal it? No.
Do I equate this with lies about pants making someone's butt look fat? No.

These two examples only show that people lie for different reasons, some good, some "not so much." When it is for deceitful purposes, it's not honorable.

 

[ZippO]

This so misses the point...

You focus so much on the act of killing and looting in pvp4. Let's address this first. Yes, I fully expect everyone to do this. I have no problem with it. I encourage it. Go do it now, please, everyone.

However, I don't expect all players would lie while doing it. The ones that do will not have my trust. Naturally, I'll be distrustful in either case if I'm in PvP4, so it's not a big concern -- only a matter of philosophical interest. The issue is that should they lie in PvP4, they are also LIKELY to lie in other situations, and hence, even when they are NOT in PvP4, I will not likely trust them. Yes, the word "likely" plays a big part here. Predisposition is based on knowledge of prior acts. Kosta is known to lie for his personal gain, hence, he is more likely to lie in OTHER situations that offer him personal gain.

Do I equate this with lies about upgrading armor to steal it? No.
Do I equate this with lies about pants making someone's butt look fat? No.

These two examples only show that people lie for different reasons, some good, some "not so much." When it is for deceitful purposes, it's not honorable.

Unless it is something like pirates honor Honor can be interpreted many ways as well, so of course your way of explaining this is your own opinion of it. In a roleplaying sense i follow much the same way kosta does. I used to change my name to lure people into a false sense of security in thinking i was a noob. Often in chat upon seeing a green dot in the zone i would tell them that i was a miner, just so they would not immediately run from me (they normally did anyways). I have never gone so far as to team someone and then shoot them later on in the zone, but i don't see how this applies to his moral character irl. If that was not a friend of his, perhaps they should have been more cautious. I won't even go into the details of what pvp4 means in the risk category.

I team kosta sometimes in pvp4 and have never had an issue with him at all. I got a valurite global with him standing right there and after i pulled it up had to kill a mulmun that aggroed on me and was down to around half health. If he truly was such a liar and untrustworthy person i would have thought he would have shot me then, but no he heals instead.

 

[P-J]

Simple point: you called dbelinfante to task for her response to my statement, and she took my words out of context and twisted them to MAKE it noobish. It's not my fault that she can't interpret my statement properly and quoted it out of context. Taking her word on it without looking at the original statement was the noobish act, IMHO. I'm fairly sure you made her day, even.

My original statement:



If you still think it's a noobish statement in context, enlighten me as to why. Perhaps I could just simplify it for those that can not or will not bother to understand it -- honor implies that you conduct yourself without stealing, scamming, or lying TO GET AHEAD.

Ok you have me - noobish to not read the whole thread ...and to take dbelinfante at her word. Do I have to eat my hat ? We said exactly the same thing. + rep on its way as an apology.

 

[xentric]

Honor can be interpreted many ways as well, so of course your way of explaining this is your own opinion of it.

Of course it can:

hon·or /ˈɒnər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[on-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.
2. a source of credit or distinction: to be an honor to one's family.
3. high respect, as for worth, merit, or rank: to be held in honor.
4. such respect manifested: a memorial in honor of the dead.
5. high public esteem; fame; glory: He has earned his position of honor.
6. the privilege of being associated with or receiving a favor from a respected person, group, organization, etc.: to have the honor of serving on a prize jury; I have the honor of introducing this evening's speaker.

And your point is?

 

[ZippO]

Of course it can:

hon·or /ˈɒnər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[on-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.
2. a source of credit or distinction: to be an honor to one's family.
3. high respect, as for worth, merit, or rank: to be held in honor.
4. such respect manifested: a memorial in honor of the dead.
5. high public esteem; fame; glory: He has earned his position of honor.
6. the privilege of being associated with or receiving a favor from a respected person, group, organization, etc.: to have the honor of serving on a prize jury; I have the honor of introducing this evening's speaker.

And your point is?

cited "pirates honor" See post above (you have to actually read it this time though)

 

[Traf Rellik]

I have no problem with the use of "pirate's honor" (or thieves honor...) as a counter example.

Of course, only pirates honor it, and they only extend it to other pirates...

So, it only helps to illustrate why people that believe he has honor are at least partially "in league" with them relative to those that don't.

dbelinfante has a good point along the same lines as yours. He's earned her trust and I don't expect to "ruin" that for either of you.

Even if I don't agree, it's not my concern. I *do have* a concern, but that's not it. Between all the "he said" and "she said" antics, this entire topic has been fun, with both the ups and downs. However, I've derived pretty much all the fun that I can with it and said all I could say (well, that's not true -- I could go on and on... ).

If any of my posts have upset you, good. Not because I wanted to make you mad, but because it helped result in a good argument ("heated debate"). Don't take it personal, just kill me next time you see me in PvP.

 

[dbelinfante]

This so misses the point...

You focus so much on the act of killing and looting in pvp4. Let's address this first. Yes, I fully expect everyone to do this. I have no problem with it. I encourage it. Go do it now, please, everyone.

However, I don't expect all players would lie while doing it. The ones that do will not have my trust. Naturally, I'll be distrustful in either case if I'm in PvP4, so it's not a big concern -- only a matter of philosophical interest. The issue is that should they lie in PvP4, they are also LIKELY to lie in other situations, and hence, even when they are NOT in PvP4, I will not likely trust them. Yes, the word "likely" plays a big part here. Predisposition is based on knowledge of prior acts. Kosta is known to lie for his personal gain, hence, he is more likely to lie in OTHER situations that offer him personal gain.

Do I equate this with lies about upgrading armor to steal it? No.
Do I equate this with lies about pants making someone's butt look fat? No.

These two examples only show that people lie for different reasons, some good, some "not so much." When it is for deceitful purposes, it's not honorable.

To which the reply of course is

This so misses the point...

My point was about honor. What goes for the rest of EU does not automatically apply to lootable pvp.
Do you ever go there at all? And if so, do you behave the exact same way there as anywhere else?
But if not, why are you even discussing this when you don't know firsthand what you are talking about?

 

[dbelinfante]

btw, dbelinfante is a he, inspite of Keira Knightley acting as avi.

 

[Elfie]

That shows nothing. It is called anecdotal evidence, and I am willing to bet you anything that the vast majority of players will admit to shooting on sight any player they think is worth shooting/looting. They will also expect anyone else to do the same.

You do not have a monopoly on honor, or on the understanding of the concept of honor. Get off your high horse.

the horse is so high she'll break her legs getting of it

 

[Elfie]

Thank you,

Now -- I feel obliged to say that you too have lost it here. It happens to us all, and I understand. I've never seen you this worked up on anything before, so please take a deep breath and relax a bit.

Thank you...very well put

 

[Lieska]

Not a tactic I would use or support, but can't we be pride lacking "robbers" in PvP4? It is a role playing game afterall. Just a different angle to think about it. Like they say about Las Vegas. What happens in PvP4 stays in PvP4.

 

[DanielleYourMom]

Not a tactic I would use or support, but can't we be pride lacking "robbers" in PvP4? It is a role playing game afterall. Just a different angle to think about it. Like they say about Las Vegas. What happens in PvP4 stays in PvP4.

True .. guess it depends on the role you want to play though

 

[Chaz]

in any other place in EU i'll show respect for ppl, even in pvp rings.
pvp 3 n 4 it's either run the hell away or shoot first, why? coz there is money involved.

Personally in those areas shoot first or run, unless ur already in a team with friends don't keep in sight of ppl out in the areas.

I don't go to these places often but im not gonna let anyone get close to me out there unless there already in a team with me.

Chaz

 

[Executioner]

i second that,
too bad a lot of people in this game apparently aren't responsible enough to be trusted in any way

a fair fight, i'm in, that's fun, and a game it is .. or should be

but lying about your intentions,
like kosta did as i read here,
like CvK did to me first time i met him,
like Kristoffer Larethania Strom did to me today (acting all friendly at the tp, asking me all about my gear to make sure i wouldn't stand a chance when he found me in pvp4 sometime later - got chat log and screenies to back this up if necessary)

all pk'rs that are way overskilled and overgeared compared to who they kill are cowards to me (unless they didn't start the fight)
and spare me the 'oh, but it's pvp' excuse, i don't go around in my street killing people 'because i can' .. it's the worst reason there is ..



I second that completely. Will never trade with them, team, .. can't be trusted in my opinion .. simple.

There is no EXCUSE ITS PVP you go inside and if you get killed its your problem

 

[Redfrog]

... coz there is money involved.

And that says it all.